Am I a "mirror" narcissist?

What you just listed off are some of the reasons why theories are just that; theories.

Atypical, thanks you clearly have a good understanding of these PDs.
I have read much about narcissism.
'The People Of The Lie' and a 'Road Less Traveled' by Scott Peck explains the evil that is pathological narcissism, and the damage it can do.
I have observed my Narc parents, my powerful controlling narc sister and a previous partner who over a year I slowly realized was a high functioning psychopath. (Oh yes, I know how to pick um)
All these people I have no doubt were born like it.

There has been some research that indicates psychopaths lack neuro receptors for Oxytocin the 'love drug' hence their lack of empathy. This makes sense to me.

StbGuy
I don't even understand how they can say narcissists don't feel empathy for others. How do narcissists then identify those feelings so easily in order to manipulate the other individual? How do they know so easily when it's occurring in others?
I think its like---------------a tiger, a tiger understands its prey totally. It watches sooo carefully, every movement, every twitch, reads the body language, calculates how and when to strike. Its does not need to feel empathy, it just needs to study its prey.

If you can't accept your flaws you can't expect other people to accept them. As long as your self worth is dependent on others approval, you will be trapped.

Easier said then done, I know...

As for the post on narcissists not being insecure and actually being psychopaths, this is not at all true, by the version of narcissism I use it by the dsm version. Of course there are narcissists who do terrible things... But this notion of narcissism is completely false.

Also, as long as you get acceptance/love from people without revealing your flaws, the insecurity will only increase...eg, "if they only knew..."

We can accept each other, warts and all... And the more we focus on what we need the other person to see in us, the self centred cycle continues... The focus on approval itself can drive people away.

How do you know if you have unconditional love if you don't first reveal your flaws?

Of course. The whole crappy environment creating PD's and that's all that does it theory has NEVER made sense to me, if that were the case then surely everyone in the same family would have the exact same personality dysfunction... but alas, no. My younger sister is the poster child for PTSD, while I'm psychopathic... both of us were abused horrifically in much the same way yet her and myself could not be more different in terms of personality. That's nature for you, nature.

I've read People Of The Lie, found it to be surprisingly true to form as far as describing my parentals and several other members of my family, heh. Interesting book and an interesting take on human evil.

The part I bolded is exactly it, it's the nature of being a predator. Narcissists and Psychopaths watch, both personality types can be extremely calculating about it(especially Psychopaths but I have known a couple of more malignant shaded Narcissists that were also highly calculating people...)

somat
As for the post on narcissists not being insecure and actually being psychopaths, this is not at all true, by the version of narcissism I use it by the dsm version. Of course there are narcissists who do terrible things... But this notion of narcissism is completely false.
The DSM version states that the cause of narcissium is still unknown. Could genetic, could be enviromental, could be both.

The narcissists Ive known have NOT been insecure, this 'insecure, false self' stuff is actually totally unproven, its simply a guess from Freud 100 years ago.

People are very loath to change old ideas.
IMO experiance its mostly genetic, couple that with a dysfuntional upbringing and you have a full blown narc.

Narcissists are not the same as psychopaths, but all psychpaths are narcissists.

I've also never known a Narcissist to be insecure except when I walk by breezily and shatter their egos... Then of course they try to build that back up and can look pretty pathetic, but that's not because they're naturally insecure; it's because I'm an asshole to Narcissists... Lol.

I'm definitely a highly narcissistic being, and unlike Narcissists I can admit that with no problem. With straight up Narcissists, in my experience they HATE it when someone points out their narcissism to them. When someone calls me narcissistic I just say, "thanks for noticing!" and continue with my business, ha!

Atypical.
You are so right!

Of course. The whole crappy environment creating PD's and that's all that does it theory has NEVER made sense to me, if that were the case then surely everyone in the same family would have the exact same personality dysfunction

I had narcissistic parents, mother was a maligant narc.
All three of us children suffered because of mother/father- BUT only one of us is a narc like mother. My middle sister is powerful, loud, confident, with sky high self esteem, a demanding entitled narc and she was ALWAYS like this, from the get go.
Whereas I and my elder sister are quiet, no confidence, timid and have both suffered with chronic depression. I've been crippled by social aniexty.

And yet.

I am to believe apparently that my steamroller of a narc sister is the one who is really 'timid and insecure' Bullc##p!!

It makes no sense.

I'm definitely a highly narcissistic being, and unlike Narcissists I can admit that with no problem. With straight up Narcissists, in my experience they HATE it when someone points out their narcissism to them. When someone calls me narcissistic I just say, "thanks for noticing!" and continue with my business, ha!

YES!
Narcissists cannot admit fault, ever, they ALWAYS blame someone else.
A psychopath can admit fault (if they want to) the attiude is 'Yeah, l did it, so f##king what??!!'

I know, but most people have run away when I do, or they see it. I posted another thread in the autism forum where I spoke of how people reject me by "forgetting" we had an arrangement to meet for example.

I know the routine already. Something about me "puts them off" and then they just fade quietly on me to try and get away. I don't confront them or chase after them, or try to get them to come back.

I'm just chilled now. It used to hurt before, but I've got a longing again to go back to when I was a kid, and totally on my own. I gave people a chance, I tried, everyone told me I must try to be more social and allow people in, I did, and if I don't get screwed by someone, I get rejected. So, whatever it is I'm doing now, it's not working. I just think it's time to go back to how things were, and accept that it was never meant to work out between me and everyone else.

StbGuy
I find it very hard to accept my flaws
Stop thinking of yourself as flawed, you are a individual, unique, you are not 'flawed'

Its not unusual for people to let other people down, yeah, it can be upsetting but you need to develop at thick skin.
Imagine there is a force field around you, and that critisium, hurts, just bounce right off!

Sounds like your family is all kinds of special, just like mine in so many ways hahah. Seriously though, that totally sucks. It's no wonder you've educated yourself about NPD and related conditions.

One of my father figures was a malignant Narcissist(he's now deceased), the other is just a straight up Narcissist, and my mother is also Antisocial like myself. There's just something about picking at Narcissists that's so fun I just can't bring myself to stop and most people encourage me to keep doing it so why stop? I don't do anything illegal to them I just make them ***** about how cruel I and the rest of the world is blah blah blah I'm sure you've heard many a "woe is ME" rant from your Narcissists, so I don't doubt you know exactly what I'm talking about lol.

My experience with Narcissists is very similar to yours, they NEVER admit fault. I had an experience around that very issue with a malignant Narcissist this year, he and myself got into an argument and I slammed him with all the things he's done... He was extremely distressed and all but yeah, he didn't admit to ANYTHING in spite of all the overwhelming evidence that certain things were entirely his own doing. I thought it was hilarious and I learned later that he's still totally pissed/upset with me. To that I say, oh cry me a ****ing river... LMAO. I can admit to things I've done no problem I'm just incapable of remorse so I don't give two ****s, heh. The only time I haven't admitted to doing something is if it is in my best interest to be dishonest, otherwise I can admit to my "bad" behavior with a level of clarity that tends to shock people. My ego does not depend on whether or not I'm seen as a good or evil person or anything like that, I'm completely indifferent... Again, unlike Narcissists, who seem to be in my experienced OBSESSED with being seen as a paragon of virtue.

I think it's happening. I rarely feel hurt by it anymore actually, and I'm starting to get by without having any friends.

If I can get my university project to work out a bit, then I'll have something to lock my attention onto 24/7 again, and it will be like old times!

That's me, that's what I'm good at. I go into my zone, and nothing or no-one is allowed in there with me. I'm safe and totally in control at all times.

I miss my zone, I don't use my zone anymore, because I've compromised it (yes me, it's my own fault). I've allowed others to contaminate my zone with their thoughts and persuasions. I need to recreate my zone again, this time only stronger and totally impenetrable.

I've forgotten what it is I am here for. I've become too involved with others, and they've swayed me. I should never have allowed it to happen, with nonsense like love and feelings and affections. Those things did nothing for me other than hurt me in some way or another, and sway me from my path and my true destiny.

Atypical, what is a "malignant' narcissist? Sounds like cancer!

All social psych research looking at narcissism puts it on a continuum and acknowledges an insecurity basis.

In psychology there is no longer such a thing as a nature nurture debate. Instead, these all happen as an interaction. If it is just genetics then it would be unlikely for narcissists to appear without parents who are narcissists. It would be more likely to run in families. It is a complex combination of factors influencing one another. No psych prof of any standing would deny this.

Most research currently on narcissism also looks at the cultural effects, especially how it happens more often in individualistic societies and is highly linked to things like social media.

This desire to instead label narcissism as psychopathy is strange. Why are we afraid of admitting we have these traits? Would viewing narcissists as insecure beings bring up too much empathy?

My dad is an extreme narcissist and it is definitely based on insecurity. I don't have to like him, but I can try to understand him.

No one would desperately need attention/approval if not insecure.

Ugh sorry, phone typing, annoying autocorrect.

I didn't refer to Narcissists as Psychopaths here, nor did I see anyone else do that. Where are you getting that idea?

There are some psychiatrists that think that BPD/NPD/ASPD are all very similar. On the same spectrum.

Yeah, exactly, seeing as NPD only makes up one of the three components of psychopathy. A narcissist sensu stricto cannot be a psychopath.

Exactly, there's a lot more to psychopathy than just pathological narcissism. And from looking at myself, other psychopaths, and narcissists... I've noticed that psychopathic narcissism has a bit of a different flavor from those who have NPD proper. As someone else here said, all Psychopaths are Narcissists... but not all Narcissists are Psychopaths...

I think one of the main reasons personality disorders are so tricky is because there is so much overlap between the disorders. I go with ASPD for myself because that's the closest thing, but the label isn't something I lose sleep over though I do read about it when I want to, I read about NPD and BPD as well. Personality disorders, especially NPD and ASPD, run in my family but I strongly suspect my younger sister has BPD or at least strong traits from what I know about that disorder.

somat.
Have to disagree totally!

In psychology there is no longer such a thing as a nature nurture debate.

Yes there is, no good psychologist would rule anything out, all lines of thought and debate should be open. A closed mind, a absolute attitude is not good or open to new research.

Narcissism absolutely runs in families!! What have you been reading!!

Narcissism, Pathological narcissism, NPD is similar to psychopathy in as much as these individuals do not feel empathy.

I am not talking about 'traits' per say, traits can be learnt they are not the same as a innate PD.
Learnt traits can be changed, if that person wants to change.

My father was 'insecure' a fragile narc, but, still a narc who failed to care properly for his children, totally self centered. He was not 'deliberately' cruel however, he was just unaware, oblivious, to the dreadful hurt he caused to his children.

I am dreadfully 'insecure' does that make me a narc? Nope of course it don't!

My mother was a covert narc, but malignant. A malignant narc is the worse kind, they know what they are doing and ENJOY causing hurt.

I remember falling down the stairs heavily as a child, top to bottom, bang, bang, bang, crashing to the floor stunned, shocked, hurt and shaking. Mother glanced up from her book and turned away with a sly smile, a smirk, playing on her lips.
She left me to get myself up, I said 'mum I fell down the stairs' she said 'Oh? I never noticed'

I suppose that don't sound much, but I knew from that day on, I was on my own.
No hugs, no comfort, cuddles, no reassurance. Nothing. But a smile.

Another damn good post. As I just mentioned, narcissism and psychopathy both run very heavily on all sides of my family, you're seen as weird if you AREN'T narcissistic and/or psychopathic... my poor little sister, she's highly empathetic and of course has PTSD from growing up in our ****ed up family.

Agreed that malignant Narcissists are sadistic creatures, one of my father figures was a malignant Narcissist and I am essentially a cripple now because of him... I will be lucky if I can walk by the time I'm in my 40s, yeah that bad. Thankfully that ****er is dead.

I'm glad you brought up the casual indifference of traditional Narcissists, they aren't deliberately trying to be cruel... They just don't care about how their actions affect people because it's all about them.

Psychopaths and malignant Narcissists can have the sadism thing in common. I'm not nearly the level of sadistic as some Psychopaths or malignant Narcissists but I still do think of myself as a sadist and I have no issues admitting that. These days though I find outlets for that part of myself that are far more "prosocial" even if still a bit fringe... lol.

Your mother sounds like a ****ing witch and not in the good way either. I take it you don't still have contact with her or others in your family?

It's a shame you're insecure, I don't think you have any reason to be! But considering how you grew up I can see why you got left with that aftereffect...

I studied psychology... The nature nurture debate is a term used for the suggestion that there are two opposing sides, that is what has ended. They are interactions. My point was not that it doesn't run in families but someone said that it had to be genetic since their family members with the same messes up life were different. My point was that if the opposing option is genetics, as it would be in a nature nurture concept, the family connection would be even stronger.

There is actually not much overlap between personality styles. Less so than with other disorders....

Somat.
There are so many variables. And yes interaction is hugely important. But then sometimes genetic influence is very strong and nuture is over ridden.
Folks near me adopted a new born. A truly nice couple, kind, softly spoken they love their daughter unconditionally.
BUT as an adult she is NOTHING like them whatsoever. Loud, confident, brash and bossy. She is still loved dearly, but she undoutedly takes after in looks, manner, attitude her genetic birth family not her adopted Family.
So, is it genetics v nuture? Sometimes, yes.