Am I a "mirror" narcissist?

Thinking back to my childhood, I grew up with a dad who I now believe is narcissistic. Also, I was influenced a lot by his drinking buddies, who I now also suspect are narcissists.

Anyway, so the usual symptoms I have - low self-esteem, feelings of low self-worth, constantly striving for perfection, never feel like anything I do is good enough, etc. - the usual stuff when you're a child of a narcissistic parent.

Couple that to the constant rejection by others I face to this day, and you get me, which I will describe below.

So, basically, I'm kinda pathetic really. I seek love and admiration from anyone who will show me some (which I don't really get). Most people fake it for a little while and then they reject me anyway.

I will basically do anything for anyone as long as I can feel I was required/needed somehow and I did the best job. As you'd expect, I've been used and abused like an old dishcloth 99% of the time. People basically use me for what they want, then when I want friendship, they reject me obviously.

So, my question is, is this what would be classified as a "mirror" narcissist?

Don't know what you mean by being a mirror narcissist but it definitely seems as if you struggle with something on the spectrum other than NPD. If anything I would call it someone who had been around and reaped the (non) benefits of a close N, I assume your father. Must suck to have the feelings you have about yourself. Used, low self esteem, never good enough not getting the relationships you seek. I grew up with parents who did have issues (non-classified of course) but I guess my ways of finding my own path led me to a different way. I chose what I want in relationships and never feel as if I owe anyone anything. Sure I will do things for others but mostly to gain what I seek in other ways. If I want a friend it's pretty simple, I just don't have the want anymore especially after the last person I was real tight with died suddenly. I too seek perfection in all I do, I guess the difference between you and I with this is that I find what I do to be great. Maybe with you it seems what is happening is that you try to hard with other people. Most people do not appreciate someone who is trying hard to be friends, maintain a relationship that is often one sided becomes abuse in some way or another. Set your goals much lower when it comes to friends, sure it's fun to go out with people but after that what is so worth the feeling of neglect you have. All people whether they are disordered or not have their own agendas, more times than none you will be let down if you live life expecting others to treat you the way you seek. Life for your bitterness and don't rely on another to make you better. When I was younger I was a misguided youth, I was in yo nothing but bad habits and doing bad things. I lived by the rule of always have your friends back no matter what. In doing so I was most loyal to people I considered friends. I lived the way I wanted and expected to. As I got older I realized more and more that not only narcissists live for themselves but normal people do as well. Sure all my friends were always people with troubled pasts as we seem to gravitate towards each other always. Problem is none lived the way I viewed and did. Loyalty never seems so important to most as I have learned over and over again. I had two best friends in my life, two that always lived like me and was a lot like me. Both are dead! I don't waste my time with nonsense anymore. Sure I have many people I see out who know me and we speak. My wife always refers to me as the mayor when we're out. Honestly I don't care about all the hellos and bs talks we have with others. I live now for me and the people under my roof after that I really don't care to invest efforts in to others. What in getting at is if you continue to go after the bait you will continue to get stuck in the trap your in. F$@& people and try to live for you. Now get of my couch and he better as I have just gifted you!!!
Today's role is therapist
The Underground

Thanks to The Underground!

A mirror narcissist, is basically a narcissist born out of being a supplier to a narcissist. So, I have all the properties, just not the charisma, power and confidence of a proper narcissist.

It's very complex. I have this low self-esteem, but I have a huge ego. I feel I am important enough (and needed enough even) to have a huge, unmatched impact on someone's life (I mean that in the positive sense), one which only I can bring about. Yet, I feel I am not worthy of being part of someone's life, I'm not good enough. The latter part plays out and the former part remains only a dream.

Narcissism almost always involves low self worth with a big ego. I don't know what you are but I am also not wanting to say because I know how dangerous these labels have been in my life...

Read "Trapped in the Mirror: adult children of narcissists in their struggle for self" if you can... Won't give you any new label but has some good insights.

We all have traits of narcissism, of course. Many put everyone on a continuum of which personality style he/she fits best. This is more traditional as most people are moving towards the DSM.

I believe there's a Jungian website that will give you a test to see which styles are most you and how much you fit them... But remember the difference between a style and a disorder and you are not your dad.

The need for approval over connection I relate to and am starting to break free from... Of the personality styles, it fits in most with narcissism. But calling myself a narcissist rarely helps because it comes with too much baggage. We all have these styles, basically. I have traits of all the styles and I recognize when they are most likely to come out...

That sounds like one hell of a dichotomy to live with. I think that's why traditional Narcissists are so dissociated from how wounded they are(if that theory is at all correct, I'm playing devil's advocate here), they cannot hold that dichotomy of having low self-worth so they create this entire false persona along with a huge ego that Narcissists end up seeing as their true selves. Whether or not this theory is true will likely always be up for debate, but where I do see a grain of truth in it is that it's so easy to totally shatter a Narcissist's ego if you know what buttons to push(and sometimes people even do it without realizing it and then they're shocked by the "narcissistic rage" that follows). The fact that every Narcissist I've known has had such a fragile ego tells me that there is underlying insecurity, though I highly doubt 99.9% of Narcissists would ever admit to that.

It sounds like no matter what label you call it, you are aware of your issues. Maybe you should stop thinking so much about what label your issues would fall under and start working on ways to work through those issues since apparently they bother you enough that you felt the need to post about them. Labels have their uses certainly, but sometimes it's far better to just work with what's there and leave labels to the side. Usually by starting to work on your problems the issue of what label they fall under becomes far more clear as you gain more clarity by doing the work to make your life better both in inner experiences and outer experiences.

Thanks guys!

You know, come to think of it, I guess a "mirror" narcissist is a narcissist basically, just like a mirror image of something can stand on it's own too if you take the original something out of the equation. Like your left hand is a mirror image of your right hand, but you don't need to see your right hand to understand your left hand, it is a hand on it's own.

I am aware of my issues, but finding it very difficult to get people to receive me in order to work them out. I think having Asperger's is causing that.

I once read that all a narcissist needs is someone to love them unconditionally. I have only found one such person, and this person is on the web so it's kinda difficult, and I don't know if one's mom counts, as my issue lies with people at large and not really direct family. Well, if I look at it, my mom's unconditional love didn't solve the problem, so they must mean from a different person then, not a parent.

A Narcissist needs unconditional love for what purpose, then? To be "cured"? I've never read that anywhere.

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we all need love.

i am glad the conclusion was brought up that a mirror narcissist is just a narcissist. after all, those on the other end of the mirror became narcissists for some reason, probably by the same reason.

i think our personality styles we may be stuck with, but we have a lot of power on how we let it be expressed.

for instance, i know that there are situations where i act more borderline, or more narcissistic, or more schizoid...

keep in mind that i am using the traditional view of personality styles and not the dsm. we all have these traits. we all have different levels of them.

and these different personality styles all have strengths, too! if we rely on one style too much then it becomes a disorder... if we have self-awareness and do not go overboard with it....

some of the best leaders are leaders because they have a bit of narcissism. one counselor once told me that i need narcissism to make myself important enough to survive.

when i am really stressed out i resort to narcissism, borderline or schizoid, depending on the source of the stress.... sometimes i wish i had relied on narcissism more often, it got me a lot further! it gave me power when i was powerless.

i also looked up the online tests and they have changed since i last saw them. not a fan of this new test but i cant find the old one.

since the core of narcissism is insecurity, if you can reveal your insecurities (the biggest fear of a narcissist), then you may recover. but dont get too set on putting yourself in a box using labels. everyone is screwed up on some level.

we wouldnt have these traits if they didnt serve us. appreciate yourself for doing what you could. someone who had absolutely no narcissistic qualities would not be able to function in todays western society.

Yeah, apparently it is supposed to break down the feelings of insecurity (like somat mentioned), and by doing so, thus break down the need to put forward the persona of strength and power, etc.

In theory, it's supposed to work on the principle that if someone can love you completely, so that not any one of your "flaws" (over which you feel insecure) matter any more, than the whole reason to feel insecure will be resolved.

It's kind of doing the opposite of what the person who brought about the narcissism in you did. The person who caused it in you used to point out all your "flaws" and amplify them, make a huge issue of them, hence the reason you become insecure, etc. What this person does is then the opposite basically, they make your "flaws" pointless and of zero value to them, which is then supposed to reverse the whole thing, I would imagine.

If it works, I don't know. That's partly because I don't think I've ever met other people who love someone else unconditionally. There's always stuff about the person that they say needs to change, etc.

That is why the traditional "you need to change this and that about yourself..." therapy also doesn't work. You're just pointing out more "flaws" for the person to feel bad about.

I don't know, there's a lot to be said for having the courage to look at your flaws. Something narcissists struggle with... If a narcissist waits for love from the outside then they can continue to blame the outside world. It could be another form of waiting for approval...

Revealing and pointing out flaws with acceptance is different... Unconditional love is such a loaded term. I think we should just focus on accepting ourselves, then people will come. We have to love and accept ourselves first.

I find it very hard to accept my flaws because other people are constantly using them as a reason to break away from me. They've become a "problem" my flaws have.

I used to accept myself, but it wasn't enough for others. They found fault with my flaws and pointed them out, now I doubt myself because of it, and have insecurities.

You can love and accept yourself, but sometimes it's not good enough for others. If they find fault with you, they find fault with you, no matter how you see yourself.

Always amazed that everyone sticks to the old defunct theories from over 100 years ago, that narcs suffer 'low self esteem, that they are insecure & hurting' blah, blah, blah.

The pathological narcs I know (including my mother) do NOT suffer those things.

IMO most narcissists are like psychopaths, born not made. A good loving home environment will mitigate the PD, a bad home will exacerbate it.

Years ago parents were thought to cause Autism, they were assumed to have been at fault, by being cold, uncaring 'refrigerator' parents.
Now we realize this is not the case.
Psychopaths were thought to be made by unfit parents, now it is thought they they too are 'born that way' Brains scans have revealed significant differences in their brains.
How I discovered I have the brain of a psychopath | James Fallon | Comment is free | The Guardian
Narcissism and psychopathy are closely aligned, all psychopaths are narcissists. The link is the total lack of empathy the inability to feel for others.
Likely a fault with the Amygdala.

I do not think you are a narcissist. You are someone suffering from the effects of living with narcissists.

I never feel like anything I do is good enough, etc. - the usual stuff when you're a child of a narcissistic parent.

Yup, thats what they do to you. A crippling lack of self esteem, lack of confidence, OCD and social anxiety has made my life very difficult.
I always wanted loads of friends, but was too shy to make any.

You sound like a decent person, who has insight into themselves. You are not narcissistic. You may have traits of narcissism learnt behavior but with help, maybe therapy, that can change.
Build your self esteem, you are good enough, you are always good enough.

Yeah, maybe a brain "susceptible" to it. Like all things in life, it is there already, but is then grown and developed further into its full form by life and experiences. Just like a talent or gift is developed.

Atypical Disaster.
I think that's why traditional Narcissists are so dissociated from how wounded they are(if that theory is at all correct,
I think that over 100 year old theory is BS!
Like believing the 'Earth is flat'

Thank you! You're point of view also definitely makes sense too.

I've made an appointment with my therapist again to discuss all this stuff, even though I've long abandoned therapy.

I just wish I can get help somehow so that rejection doesn't shatter my ego like it does, and how I can stop trying to interpret what others are thinking when they say nothing.

It's all stuff my dad does now that I think about it. He always used to throw a tantrum and take you on a guilt trip when you don't do something the way he wants it.

I don't throw tantrums and don't guilt trip people, but I go into a depressive mode each time something doesn't work out for me.

It sounds like I have a really fragile ego, and quite a big one.

I don't throw tantrums and don't guilt trip people, but I go into a depressive mode each time something doesn't work out for me.

It sounds like I have a really fragile ego, and quite a big one.

Your ego is fragile because you believe you are not 'good enough' so a setback hurts real bad, confirms your inner (wrong) voice that tells you how 'useless' you are.
ITS A LIE!
You are as good, and valuable as everyone else.
Everyone gets setbacks, but because they feel good about themselves they bounce back pretty quick, whereas I would spend sleepless nights worrying, worrying, worrying, did I say the wrong thing? do the wrong thing, was I an embarrassment? like father said? Was it true that 'no one would ever like me' Like mother said?

Narcs make crap parents.

It's true, I worry about upsetting people all the time. It's because I was always worried about upsetting my dad as a kid, hell, even now. It's so natural already, it happens automatically. It's because every time someone says something different to him, he totally loses it and completely blows everything out of proportion.

I really struggle to see that other people are not like that. When there is even the slightest amount of silence from them, I begin to worry that I've done something.

Is there any way I could ever rectify this? It feels like it's part of every fiber of my being and I'll never be able to trust that people are not thinking what I think they are thinking.

Hah, exactly. As I mentioned, I was merely playing devil's advocate, lol. Excellent post about the nature aspect of narcissism by the way!

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The main difference between Narcissists and Psychopaths I've noticed is how fragile their egos are or aren't. A Narcissist's ego is ridiculously fragile... While my ego on the other hand has never been shattered. Or perhaps Narcissists are just acting like they have a fragile ego to manipulate people heh who knows?

Fascinating post!

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The simple answer is to stop caring what other people think. By obsessing over what others may or may not be thinking about you, you're totally giving away your personal power. Take it back, it's your right.

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Why is the label "Narcissist" so important to you? You seem to have given this a lot of thought.

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I dunno. Just looking for answers, clues, info, anything I guess. If I know what it's called, gives me a lead to go look up, or bring up in therapy or whatever.

Just looking for some kind of entry point into tackling my problems. If I just look at myself without labels, I just get "one f-cked up kid" and I don't know where to go further from that.

Well, there's a lot of literature out there for people who are living with the after effects of being raised by narcissists. That might be a good place to start looking for answers instead of some kind of label.

Why do you think the word "narcissist" can at all apply to you?

To be totally honest, I'm not even sure anymore.

I don't even understand how they can say narcissists don't feel empathy for others. How do narcissists then identify those feelings so easily in order to manipulate the other individual? How do they know so easily when it's occurring in others?

I don't think any of these theories are accurate when you really dig into it.