Originally Posted by vonmoxie

Something I find especially interesting in the NPD forum is that even supposed non-narcissists really enjoy letting grandiosity fly in here. Methinks we all have some underrealized associations with the traits involved.

That's cute, especially since I'm pretty sure that I've stated several times that narcissism is a universal human trait. Maybe the dsm will add offering unpopular opinions to the criterion for npd. Fingers crossed.

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by rouge198

That's cute, especially since I'm pretty sure that I've stated several times that narcissism is a universal human trait. Maybe the dsm will add offering unpopular opinions to the criterion for npd. Fingers crossed.

Well gosh, it's a good thing you stated it, or none of us would ever have realized.

I was not trying to be cute. Just accurate. I don't even disclude myself from the description I offered. I genuinely believe it to be true, and requiring only a modicum of personal introspection to be able to notice. How cute is that?

I do think that there are many ways to remain entangled in cycles of narcissistic interaction, some of which can be remarkably elusive to us, both functionally and emotionally. The best any of us can do is to keep working at stepping back and getting progressively better looks at the big picture -- as it exists within the variously limited scopes of our own human perceptions. Worrying about the evolution of the language used or of the big book of insurance claim codes seems to me to be more often than not just a distraction from more important processes.

People are just people plain and simple. Your person of superiority who lectures at a top university really means nothing to me. Just another "person" trying to have their voice heard by other "people" who will listen. Sorta like yourself here. Shall I bow down because YOU tell me of the people "you" listen to? What about the millions of other top docs who say otherwise? It just comes down to what each wants to believe in and that's all it is. Quick question for you, why are you here? What was your end goal in coming and writing so much in "this" forum? I ask because truly it seems as if you want everyone to follow your beliefs only. That is pretty darn narcissistic of you!!! Really just trying to understand your reasoning.

Hey Von I don't believe there is a way to get an answer from a question you ask of Rouge. It seems to only go back to what was said over and over again. Just like a broken record. Great reply BTW.

[jacky8807]

I have never been hurt by a "narc" so I'm not all entangled by the victim culture that pervades here
Rouge I agree we are not our labels
But as for the rest of it. "Doth the lady protest too much?

after the two minutes of reading I have done on this thread I would say
Rouge you took ownership over your life by not giving your dad attention anymore
So seeing these narcs get attention certainly triggered you
You came here to tell them (your dad) I mean them (your dad!) They are not important and have no rule over your life
You are not done in therapy sweetheart

Just remember that if you can't take the heat it's best to stay out of the kitchen. LOL

Jacky... Love the (your dad). Still smiling

[jacky8807]

Imagine if someone went into the bipolar forum and said it didn't exist?
Or even better to the borderline forum and said they all choose to be this way?
Apparently you guys are fair game yikes

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by jacky8807

Imagine if someone went into the bipolar forum and said it didn't exist?
Or even better to the borderline forum and said they all choose to be this way?
Apparently you guys are fair game yikes

Yes my my we can break this down for all the mental illnesses!

[Sarcasm]

Schizophrenia doesn't exist, it's totally natural to have an imagination. It's a HUMAN TRAIT THAT EVERYONE POSSESSES, hearing voices/having delusions/being incoherent is totally natural! Don't take those pills!

Bipolar doesn't exist, doesn't everyone have mood swings?

Depression doesn't exist, everybody feels sad sometimes!

Borderline Personality Disorder doesn't exist, aren't you all just making excuses for being neurotic and emotional all the time?

None of the personality disorders exist, they're in the DSM for no reason because everyone just chooses to be the way they are. They can all just be better if they just stop pathologizing themselves!

Dissociative Identity Disorder(I have this one), doesn't exist because everyone feels like a different person sometimes and everyone is always changing, it's totally normal to not remember most of your entire existence and to randomly black out for hours to weeks to months at a time!

Autism doesn't exist, you're just socially awkward! You're normal honey I promise!

ADHD doesn't exist, it just means you have to manage your time better! Lack of focus that impairs your ability to function is a NORMAL HUMAN TRAIT.

See, everyone on Psych Central, we're all just lazy people making excuses for our behavior and we need to all admit that we're just lazy, masochistic, sadistic, abusive, not trying hard enough, stupid, etc because all these mental illnesses aren't real and they're all just totally natural parts of being human I mean everyone gets manic and psychotic, it isn't debilitating unless you WANT it to be and wrap a label around yourself because god forbid we're all here because we all have SERIOUS issues that require copious amounts of medication and therapy all the time... Nope, it's all because we're just expressing natural human tendencies and labels are the source of all evil!

[/Sarcasm]

See how laughably ridiculous all of that sounded? That is the logic being used here right now and I can say that NOBODY in the mental health community would at all appreciate being told that their mental illness(es) don't exist at all.

You forgot homosexuals. This too was once recognized as a disorder but not any longer as we were all told. This is really just a personal preference at certain times, not something your born with. Great job Atypical, loved the post. BTW what happened to the kid? He must of went rogue....... HA HA HA HA. Anxiety maybe set in. Feeling's may have gotten hurt as he was so accustom to dominating that other forum he spoke of. Doesn't look as if he had much of the same luck here.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by Underground

You forgot homosexuals. This too was once recognized as a disorder but not any longer as we were all told. This is really just a personal preference at certain times, not something your born with. Great job Atypical, loved the post. BTW what happened to the kid? He must of went rogue....... HA HA HA HA. Anxiety maybe set in. Feeling's may have gotten hurt as he was so accustom to dominating that other forum he spoke of. Doesn't look as if he had much of the same luck here.

Oh damn I'm slacking off way too much lately HA HA HA.

Thanks about the post hehehe, what's life without sarcastic dark humor eh?

I wish more people would read. But alas, people will be people... Smirk.

[hazn]

Admittedly I haven't been following this thread closely, but rouge198 made some good points about how victims of narcissistic abuse view their abusers. At the end of the day, whether you have narcissistic traits, or are someone who has been diagnosed with NPD, shouldn't make a difference to the victim. Abuse is abuse, whether the person has a personality disorder or not shouldn't matter. So from that perspective, I agree with rouge198. Regarding the other comments... it doesn't make a difference to me or change how I'd deal with someone who has been diagnosed with a personality disorder... it's simply not my problem, and I'd rather concentrate on building healthy relationships with healthy people.

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by hazn

Admittedly I haven't been following this thread closely, but rouge198 made some good points about how victims of narcissistic abuse view their abusers. At the end of the day, whether you have narcissistic traits, or are someone who has been diagnosed with NPD, shouldn't make a difference to the victim. Abuse is abuse, whether the person has a personality disorder or not shouldn't matter. So from that perspective, I agree with rouge198. Regarding the other comments... it doesn't make a difference to me or change how I'd deal with someone who has been diagnosed with a personality disorder... it's simply not my problem, and I'd rather concentrate on building healthy relationships with healthy people.

I was the subject of significant abuse in my childhood and for a good while following, having been indoctrinated to it within the chaotic Cluster B realm of my family, and in my opinion it makes a huge difference whether it's the result of narcissistic patterns; if not for how you'd deal with the person (although I think that's an unfortunate oversight), then how you deal with yourself, how you evolve from the experience. When you're bullied or manipulated in various ways, and especially in childhood, it leaves a mark on you that makes you easily identifiable as prey for abusers of the same type. Emotional residue. To not deal with the nature of that residue is almost an invitation for similar abuses to happen again.

Perhaps especially so with other narcissists, because they can be charming as all get-out and you will run into them again somewhere.

[hazn]

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

I was the subject of significant abuse in my childhood and for a good while following, having been indoctrinated to it within the chaotic Cluster B realm of my family, and in my opinion it makes a huge difference whether it's the result of narcissistic patterns; if not for how you'd deal with the person (although I think that's an unfortunate oversight), then how you deal with yourself, how you evolve from the experience. When you're bullied or manipulated in various ways, and especially in childhood, it leaves a mark on you that makes you easily identifiable as prey for abusers of the same type. Emotional residue. To not deal with the nature of that residue is almost an invitation for similar abuse to happen again.

Especially with other narcissists, because they can be charming as all get-out, and you will run into them again somewhere.

I don't feel like it's THAT difficult to spot and avoid getting into trouble with a personality disordered person... provided you're not one yourself, or have some unhealthy thinking patterns/behaviors. There's a reason why highly empathic, codependent, low self-esteem types end up with narcissistic individuals. Healthy individuals don't have this problem. And these same people suffer the most, and obsess over the whole experience... this is unhealthy, and I believe that's what rouge198 was trying to warn against. The idea that you can solve the mystery behind narcissistic behavior, or "fix" it, isn't helpful. At some point you have to just accept that it's not your problem, and work on yourself so that you can have healthier relationships going forward.

[vonmoxie]

I don't think anyone here advocates for trying to "fix" narcissists. Not even narcissists.

I do think it's bad form to accuse others of obsessing over narcissistic disorders even while pontificating on the topic ad nauseum oneself.

However: your point being that if one is totes healthy themselves, has no unhealthy thinking patterns or personality disordered tendencies, then they are totally safe from getting into trouble with anyone who does..? That sounds awesome. Unfortunately, I've never met a totally healthy person, the world over, in my many travels and living in a swarming metropolis of 9 million people. I don't think it's a question of who is sick, only how they are sick. Like Bill Hicks once aptly said about humanity, "we're a virus with shoes".

We all have our paths though, that we need to go down along our journeys. I certainly don't begrudge rouge his/hers/theirs (nor you yours)... it's quite another thing to walk into a room or forum though and say "you people all need to XYZ because I know better than you". Imagine if someone went into the Survivors of Abuse forum and said "you all need to stop obsessing about your abuse and get on with your lives". Preposterous, right? One might not survive to make another post after a statement like that. And yet it's the exact same behavior.

[here today]

Originally Posted by hazn

. . . The idea that you can solve the mystery behind narcissistic behavior, or "fix" it, isn't helpful. . .

For myself, I disagree. It has been helpful to me to try to understand the minds of narcissists – my dad was (likely) one and it has left its residue, as vonmoxie called it. That’s (still) a part of me at this point – I can’t cut it off – well, through dissociation maybe I could but I don’t want to. It’s healthier for me to try accept and understand myself, including the parts or aspects I introjected or whatever it is. And maybe that way I can really let it go at some point – just let it float away, not belonging to me anymore. Maybe, I don’t know.

What I do know is that hanging out in this forum, participating to the extent that my emotional energy flowed up over the top sometimes, has allowed me to get (more) in touch with my own “underground” and I feel more grounded in general than when I first started posting here.

So, thanks, NPD’ers, and I hope I’ll still be welcome to post here sometimes even if sometimes I’m a little, well, narcissistic in my own way?

Here Today, your always welcome!! Von once again I like what you write. On to the next, the issue with the character we're discussing is not about their thought's as much as it is their words trying to convince us that what we know is wrong. This is the one place as a person who has NPD can come and not get the usual crap that they would anywhere else because of NPD. First hand experience. We come here and talk, sometimes seriously, other times for fun but either way it's open, honest and not being judged. Then one day someone comes along and wants to speak down to us all. To make us drink the kool-aid that they have continued to live on. We don't speak here on what we say is the only way(as much as we may want to. you know NPD and all). Many nons are here and ask questions and the ones here that are disordered do their best to answer the concerns. If for only one place, this is "ours" to be us, to speak how we want and not deal with someone who likes to see their own words ONLY. So to sum up my thoughts, yes all are welcome here. Just don't expect to be accepted here by the locals if you act certain ways. Just how it is!! Just as it's free to come here you're just as free to leave here. Anyway what does one expect by annoying a room with "disordered narcissist's"?

Originally Posted by here today

For myself, I disagree. It has been helpful to me to try to understand the minds of narcissists – my dad was (likely) one and it has left its residue, as vonmoxie called it. That’s (still) a part of me at this point – I can’t cut it off – well, through dissociation maybe I could but I don’t want to. It’s healthier for me to try accept and understand myself, including the parts or aspects I introjected or whatever it is. And maybe that way I can really let it go at some point – just let it float away, not belonging to me anymore. Maybe, I don’t know.

What I do know is that hanging out in this forum, participating to the extent that my emotional energy flowed up over the top sometimes, has allowed me to get (more) in touch with my own “underground” and I feel more grounded in general than when I first started posting here.

So, thanks, NPD’ers, and I hope I’ll still be welcome to post here sometimes even if sometimes I’m a little, well, narcissistic in my own way?

My own "Underground".... Loving it!!!! LOL

[Atypical_Disaster]

Anyway what does one expect by annoying a room with "disordered narcissist's"?

Exactly. This forum is for people who are Narcissists, not empathetic rays of light. Tsk tsk.

Hey Atypical, we have done it again. This has become a re-occurrence if you know what I mean..... Another who comes here claiming to know it all and then all of the sudden we never see them again. It's as if we're magicians!!! I mean we get along with so many people here, I don't understand why some just have to be against us. Those people are just so mean.... HA HA HA HA HA HA. To all the others here, hello and I appreciate your thoughts.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by Underground

Hey Atypical, we have done it again. This has become a re-occurrence if you know what I mean..... Another who comes here claiming to know it all and then all of the sudden we never see them again. It's as if we're magicians!!! I mean we get along with so many people here, I don't understand why some just have to be against us. Those people are just so mean.... HA HA HA HA HA HA. To all the others here, hello and I appreciate your thoughts.

All I have to do is pretend to be a psychopath for long enough apparently because that's always what does it. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! I'm brilliant, I know I know!

[jacky8807]

For all of you who want to know how to deal with narcs just do what a nurse practitioner at my job once told me

Just keep agreeing with them about how awesome they are

Haha that's a true story.
How's that work for everybody ??

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by jacky8807

For all of you who want to know how to deal with narcs just do what a nurse practitioner at my job once told me

Just keep agreeing with them about how awesome they are

Haha that's a true story.
How's that work for everybody ??

You deserve a medal! Exactly!

Keep it simple people and all of your problems will be solved!

[here today]

Or if anybody is interested in something more complicated, maybe to keep the boredom at bay? I’m wondering if people here would be interested in a discussion of “narcissism” in general? What it is, what it isn’t. How it’s distinct from things people sometimes lump into their understanding of narcissists like revenge and vindictiveness which can be common (hurtful) human responses, no diagnosis of NPD required – although some narcissists may display an inordinate amount of those.

Or anything else related to narcissism in general, including narcissism as a personality trait vs. narcissism when it’s a personality disorder?

[marmaduke]

OK to keep boredom at bay.

Narcissisum is not;

All about looking in a mirror.
It's not all about 'a wounded ego'

Narcissisum is about;

Being wired differently.
And control.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[here today]

Psychopathy is about being wired differently – As has been said before, all psychopaths are narcissists but not all narcissists are psychopaths – meaning not all narcissists are necessarily wired that way.

Lumping all narcissists into one category still seems to me, in general, to be a mistake. But if being wired differently is the definition of NPD that the narcissists in this forum agree applies to them personally then that, of course, is understandably what this forum will be about.