I'm scared that I'm a covert narcissist

I've been reading a bit about this recently and even took the test here (it says the average score is around the mid to upper 60s. I scored an even 70, and 82 and above is covert narcissism).

The evidence seems to be piling up: nothing makes me emote like my own "inner hell" of guilt, anxiety, and hopelessness over feelings of failure and inferiority. I rarely feel anything deep for other people, though I want to. Even the times I have cared or worried about others, it had selfish motives underneath - worrying a parent wouldn't be able to take care of me, or wanting a lover to give me another chance. Even though the concern felt genuine on my end, I ultimately just wanted to avoid pain (also, I have no idea how to love someone. Like really, deeply, emotionally love them. It feels like the few short, sexless relationships I've had were more about having someone who made me feel lovable). Some of the time I feel like a selfish child who wants her way and feels internally sulky when it doesn't work out - I'm too proud usually to complain outwardly, even if I feel disappointed that, say, we had to cancel plans because someone was sick.

Today I was reading about a potential decision to require women to register for the draft. The thought of required military service actually makes me physically depressed, the thought of being required to give several years of my life to something I don't want to be involved in, plus the notion that I'm so worthless and expendable I don't even get a choice in being can on fodder, in being maimed and traumatized or maybe killed. Yes, this is how I thought about it, me me me. Then it occurred to me that this is probably how many men feel about it too...really, there shouldn't be a draft at all! I can't argue with the reasoning that it's unfair discrimination to not require women to register, even though I'm distressed about this being a potential worry. But I'm so selfish I don't know if I'd want to fight even if there was reason to...

I'm already writing too much. I've written before lengthy tracts about my myriad stupid problems, most notably my obsession with intelligence and growing lack of faith in my own. I don't know what I expect from that. If people tell me I'm smart, I don't - can't - believe them. But I spew this emotional garbage all over the site hoping to find resolution... or maybe just sympathy? What it all I'm doing is trying to get attention with an exaggerated self-hate, and none of my feelings are to be trusted? What if all my negativity is just manufactured to elicit affection or attention, or as an excuse for laziness? What if I really am arrogant and am just faking? How can I trust myself knowing my own self-centeredness?

All this considered, can narcissism be cured? I don't want to be like this. I don't want to be sick and cruel and unable to connect with others. I worry that even the visceral, emotional empathy I sometimes experience is selfish and fake...help...

The fact that you are concerned rather makes me think you aren't really such a narcissist. A true narcissist would never even suspect he/she is one!

Your current selfishness might just be a form of coping, self preservation, you know? You might be so depressed it's all you can do to just protect yourself.

I wouldn't worry about a draft coming back in. Even if it does it will take a year or two to implement I would think...and then they screen you and after bootcamp, assuming you do get through it okay, they find positions that fit you... It's a wonderful lesson in self discipline and I wish all youth had to go through it (boot camp).

Ah, the draft thing was just one of my daily internal crises, used as an example of my selfish thinking.

I believe there was an article on the main PC site about how actually, most narcissists know they're narcissists. Though I guess covert ones might be less aware.

Another thing is my relationship with grandiosity. I don't have much, but I guess I want it. I want to stand out, be special, recognized, dare I say superior. But I've convinced myself, to the point almost of paranoia, that the opposite is true. That seems to be the biggest hole in the narcissist argument. Without that...I'm basically just self-centered and immature (which I kind of already know...)

Yet some of the covert narcissism articles talked about another issue that pertains to me: an inability to connect. This one's been bothering me lately, and according to the internet the solution is selflessness, to give to others and expect nothing in return. As much as I can see that wanting affection for free is childish... just giving almost turns me off. Why should I deplete myself like that? That will just hurt me...I mean, I understand being kind and I enjoy it, I do sometimes to things simply because its right... but to make friends requires more than that, and I never really known how to make that balance. I guess I feel like I have nothing to give and others will just drain me so the pain of loneliness is worth it.

Now I don't know if I'm a narcissist or just socially broken.

Probably neither.

Remember what Socrates said at his trial in 399 B.C.? "The unexamined life is not worth living."

I think most of us do things to get something in return. If nothing else, to make us feel good. You are certainly examining your motives.

How about talking to a therapist about it? That way you can find out if you are normal along this line or need some treatment. Okay?

Hey, I read this yesterday, I'm not rereading it again. I just wanted to say, that if this is what it takes to get out of your recent hardships in life, just be one, fuel it a bit more and be a little more worse narcissist openly. And I agree with most of other replies here.

This is an incorrect statement.

I am with atypical, but if I was a narcissist I probably wouldn't worry about the effects of being one either. I would be more concerned as to why you have anxieties about having a personality disorder based on limited information.

I infact have no clear definition as to what proper narcissistism is because I feel it is a word misunderstood and mainly used to guilt and shame people into submission.

My idea of what narcissistism is that you have irrational love of your self, and unhealthy inflated ego.

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I was under the impression that you are BPD, OP.

Compelled to add. I think most people with NPD would never even invest time to diagnose themselves as they are the gods amongst gods(in their mind). Why would a god think they are disordered??? Only some of us unlucky ones know about what we are. The problems are greater when you realize that you are a case rather than a god. I sometimes wish I could go back a few years to when I thought I myself did not have a title based in a book. When I did and said things with zero contempt. When who I was was so much easier!!!! I have NPD and I searched for the answer. It is not wise to believe that a person with NPD would not be because they thought that of themselves. Just look at a few of us here. Ones who did the same!! I always knew something was off, just like many others who too believe that they are normal. We are who we are, thinking that something is off and finding out the truths are part of the travels for some while the lucky ones go to their death never knowing. Questions to be answered is which is better. Very conflicted at the moment...... To the op, if you sense something off then you are probably right with seeking answers, just know that when the truth is found it isn't always great. To be a narcissist, one who thinks and really feels superior to all, finds out they are disordered is just like oil and vinegar. They go together but never mix..... This is the same as my mind since finding my own truth!!!!

I thought this thread died...

Can I confess I had actually been wondering about that myself?

There's a strange part of me that wants to have a disorder. It's messed up, maybe immature. But it can feel like, I'll take anything. Depression. Attention disorder. Anything. Tell me I'm not as normal as I sometimes fear I am. That's probably unhealthy by itself.

Yet the "fear" I associate with possibly being a narcissist is worry that I have or will hurt someone somehow, and not realize it. I know how selfish I am in relationships, I don't know how to have real ones. I basically latch onto someone who makes me feel good, willingly drinking in their affection and not really giving much in return...and not realizing it until afterwards. And I'm very guilt-prone, I will feel like a terrible person.

Indeed, I've been questioning lately just how capable of empathy I am. It occurred to me that the "auto-empathy" I would sometimes feel for people is more likely just guilt over not suffering the same way, and since that realization it's actually faded; I'm not bothered by things like I used to, not as intensely. My mom used to tell me I have no empathy or compassion, now I'm wondering if it's true - the thought of it makes me sick. Yet the ability to really "feel for" someone does kick in occasionally...I'll stop before I confuse myself.

Here's the thing: I've been called arrogant and been flat-out offended by it...because I've felt disordered and inferior for at least half my life if not longer. People who can self-validate normally and have actual, healthy self-esteem are basically aliens to me. Sometimes I wonder if they're really that perfect, because how else could they be so confident?

My concerns about narcissism seem more based in selfishness and obsessive self-focus - for the last couple of years I've been self-examining so frequently it feels like I don't even have unconscious thoughts anymore. If anything I seem to go in the opposite direction of what's bolded: regularly beating myself down. Once in a while I get a moment of lucidity and wonder if I'm just ploying for attention, it would explain why I'm so compulsively open online. Not being able to trust my feelings is kind of scary.

So I worry that I'm a narcissist not because I'm a god in my own mind, but because I'm so self-focused. Heck, I wonder even if my lengthy posts and frequent threads when my mind is overloading is similarly a sign of some exaggerated self-imposing.

Perhaps "limited information" is a valid concern.

Coming to a similar feeling about my reverse (“I’m so great because I can admit I’m disordered”) narcissism.

For myself I always thought of myself as far too unique to be at all normal. I revel in my uniqueness to this day. Some may call me delusional but I don't give a **** who calls me that unless it's my psychiatrist wanting to shove more pills down my throat then I get wildly irritated!

Agreed, you are who you are. No point in denying it, trying to twist it into something else, and so on.

As far as knowing I'm disordered, yes I'm aware... I just seem to be literally incapable of giving a ****. So I'm an asshole? Okay. Let's move on!

Puh-leeze. I held my co-dependent “tongue” as much as I could when others insulted you, since it was your business to defend yourself, which I knew you to be capable of doing. And I can understand if you want to short-circuit any other people who want to toss insults. But, for me, I like you, "not caring" and all, and so I don’t like anybody – even you -- saying insulting words about you. Yes, we move on!

And to the OP – in my experience, you could definitely be in worse company than that in this forum. For instance,

For me, although I don’t have classic NPD, my therapist said that I had been "narcissistically wounded and fragmented". My ability to consciously feel hurt (in my normal state) had been numbed out or dissociated because of events in my childhood, so I couldn’t really empathize and just stay calm. When I felt that I had hurt somebody I would feel overwhelming guilt, then shame, which could collapse into a pit of self-loathing. Mostly I was hypervigilant about NOT hurting anybody and co-dependent.

I got the feelings of hurt back through excruciating trauma therapy – the dissociated feelings became conscious, but I couldn’t make it happen and when they did come, I had to allow myself to consciously feel the feelings that had been too much for me when I was a child. So, as I wrote a while back, it can be done but it seems to me there needs to be a better way. It’s excruciating and the therapy itself can be destabilizing.

All the people criticizing us aren't like us, or maybe they have their own narcissistic tendencies numbed out or they are in denial or something. At any rate, they apparently don't or can't have empathy with us. So there!

The possibility that I lack empathy scares me; I feel like I'm broken, horribly, in an incredibly fundamental way.

A while ago I observed a pattern in my online interactions: post lots about my feelings - latch onto anyone who took a personal interest - use that person as an emotional dumping ground (and validation dispenser) - grow apart. The whole time never really caring much about them personally. Missives from me would be one paragraph of sympathy for their own issues and 12 of my own thoughts.

I've been reading descriptions of narcissism, and it disturbs me how much I can relate to turning discussions to myself, inserting myself into conversations, to just having a "meh" reaction to most people's hardship unless it strikes a particular chord with me. What I don't relate to is using people to advance or get what I want. The only thing I really "use" people for is emotional stuff. If I want prestige or status (and I kind of do), I'll either get it myself or sit envious in the shadows.

I've never been able to form strong connections with people, ever. Most people don't register much with me, but like you, I could never hurt anyone without feeling huge amounts of guilt, shame and fear. Hell, being around angry or upset people scares me. In addition, I often feel like focusing on another would...deplete me. Like if I actually give and expect nothing, I'll just end up empty. I'd rather be alone then.

Whoa this got long.

If you did have NPD, this is what psychcentral has to say about treatment:

Narcissistic Personality Disorder Treatment | Psych Central

I was diagnosed with PDNOS -- personality disorder not otherwise specified. So if you're willing to consider the possibility that you might have a personality disorder, and you want to do something to change that, then I'd recommend that you try to find a therapist who specializes in personality disorders and go for a consultation and evaluation. Treating this stuff ain't easy, but it can be done by people who know what they're doing and have done a lot of their own therapy, to minimize the risk that their own stuff could interact with yours in an unhealthy way.

Is there anything else that you would like to ask?

How about your parents and/or other family members? If it turns out you are the way you are (mostly) because you were born that way, even then I suspect it could help to have a good therapist to help you understand and value yourself anyway.

BPD is my guess.

I was thinking the same thing, actually.

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Well now! I must say this made me smile.

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The only person I ever had any kind of comfortable relationship with is my mother - and by "comfortable relationship" I mean I have few inhibitions in what I say. The thing is, how much I actually care about her has...waned, over the years. That sounds horrible. But to me it felt like a defensive thing: her own mood swings, annual threats to commit suicide, and general emotional unpredictability (at least to me) scared me enough I guess I just detached. It's easier to just shut down (mostly) my capacity to be hurt be her, though I'm easily "hurt" by anyone else and often things unrelated to me. I also find I like her less as a person as I mature myself.

I was much more attached to my father, but I was too young when he died to have had any kind of mature, emotional relationship there.

Family has never been a big part of my life - I have very few relatives and we almost never see each other. No, I don't care for them much. Why should I? They may as well be on another planet.

Interesting a couple people now think I sound borderline. When I look over the symptoms, some are painfully familiar, others are practically the opposite of me. I'm not intense at all, or necessarily reckless. I can't say I have unstable relationships because I generally don't have relationships. I'm more likely to be overinhibited (esp. in interpersonal interaction) than openly unstable.

If there is something wrong my personality, it might be NOS.

From your descriptions you sound like you have traits of a few PD's. Try not to stress about the exact label. It's not all that important, professionals have no idea what to do with you if you have a disordered personality that isn't BPD.

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Ha ha ha a therapist knowing what to do with a person with NPD. Still laughing, what a knee slapper!!!! Atypical hit it out of the park, live on without living in.

A therapist knowing what to do with NPD or ASPD... What a hysterical myth!

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