How often have you told yourself, "Nobody cares"? The following article discusses the many possible meanings of that phrase. The author does the cognitive distortion thing and challenges the statements. She ends the article asking readers what each means when stating "Nobody cares."

The declaration that nobody cares often has perplexed me. I know people care. While I think it is often difficult for others to understand my depression, most often I cannot say the misunderstanding is purposeful. The most distressing part of trying to understand what I mean when I think nobody cares is my role.

Being told I have a treatment resistant illness because of my personality has been hard to accept. I have concluded the professionals believe I have, whether intentionally or not, failed to listen to them with an open mind. In essence, the many years I tried to help myself adulterated my perception of what I was hearing to such an extent it made no sense to me.

My reason for thinking nobody cares is a fallacy, as I have already suggested. That others do care thus far has not been enough to convince me I am worthy of a better life.

http://www.healthcentral.com/depress...l-cares?ap=825

I often go back to this article too: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dep...atment/MY00751

Byzantine!

Thanks for sharing this with us. You are so full of good links and I appreciate you taking the time to share them. One thing I want to affirm from the article are:

"It seemed easier to believe that nobody cared so I didn’t have to care myself. "

It has been a long time since I have truly been in therapy and taken the time to look at some of my underlying beliefs. She is so right, if I truly feel that nobody cares, then why should I? It's a pass to continue in my misery. Now I am aware of this it is my responsibility to challenge the thought.

When I say nobody cares, what I typically mean is I am not allowing myself to feel as if anybody truly cares. I am not able to let people in. If they can't penetrate my walls then how can their support?

For me it has to come down to letting people in slowly and allowing myself to feel loved and nurtured. After all, I deserve it! I think she hit on a core principle in dealing with recovery from depression and that is, I must challenge my faulty beliefs.

Thanks again Byzantine! BTW I too struggle with the treatment resistant label. If you ever want to chat PM me.

Love and hugs,
Tara

[elliemay]

I do wonder if seeking a better life is part of the problem. What if your life is good right now? What if it's the best it can be right at this moment? What if you are good enough right now, just as you are?

Would that sabotage a desire to change or open the door for acceptance, gratitude and love right now?

Don't know.

Someone a whole lot smarter than me said "You can't solve a problem with same mind that created it." or something like that.

If that's the case, then perhaps a new mind is in order.

My goal is functionality. If I do the things I know will help me function at a higher level, I am more content. Unfortunately, I sometimes for rather long periods lack the will to do the basics.

Concomitantly, when I am have more discipline, I also find being more sociable easier. I often tell people I do not want you to try to fix me -- that is my responsibility. Rather, I would like you to talk to me like you would talk to anyone else -- to affirm I am a member of the human race and capable of coherent conversation. Ultimately, the more I interact the less I have to explain what I do all day.

You ask very cogent questions, elliemay. A psychiatrist or two has suggested as much, while putting grandiosity into the mix. Many times I return to this (Perhaps doing so is the problem?):

Loneliness is an aching void in the center of our beings, a deep longing to love and be loved, to be fully known and accepted by at least one other person. It is a hollow, haunting sound sweeping through our depths, chilling our bones and causing us to shiver.

Is there a person, anywhere, who has never felt the stab of loneliness, who has never experienced the eerie distance of isolation and separation who has never suffered the pain of rejection or the loss of love?

The final rupture or breakdown of a valued loving relationship, the sudden death of someone who was close and special, an unavoidable separation from a loved one—these things strike loneliness into our hearts, the intense experience of the absence of that specific person.

Besides longing for a specific person, sometimes loneliness has no name attached. This is the general feeling of being alone, isolated, separated from others.

And there is a third kind of loneliness—existential loneliness—which is even deeper and more pervasive than either of the first two. It often disguises itself as longing for a specific person or pretends to be yearning for contact with anyone, but this deeper lack or emptiness-of-being is not really a kind of loneliness at all.

Being together with other people, even people we intensely love, does not overcome this deep incompleteness of being. This inner default of selfhood has never been solved by relationships, no matter how good and close and warm our relationships might be. http://www.tc.umn.edu/~parkx032/CY-LONE.html

[elliemay]

Byz,

I am intrigued by your response, and must think on it. For now, may I ask what you mean by grandiosity?

E

grandiosity An inflated appraisal of one's worth, power, knowledge, importance, or identity. When extreme, grandiosity may be of delusional proportions.

Grandiosity An exaggerated belief or claim of one’s importance or identity, manifest by delusions of wealth, power, or fame

I was diagnosed as a narcissist by one psychologist:

While grandiosity is the diagnostic hallmark of pathological narcissism, there is research evidence that pathological narcissism occurs in two forms, (a) a grandiose state of mind in young adults that can be corrected by life experiences, and (b) the stable disorder described in DSM-IV, which is defined less by grandiosity than by severely disturbed interpersonal relations.

The grandiosity label arose from my belief I could change the culture of the law firm I worked for. I was the managing partner and had big plans. The other partners thought the status quo was fine. The disappointment I expressed became a lesson -- good ideas need to be sold and do not succeed without some consensus. My consensus building failed, even though I thought I had the support of the other partners.

I do or did exhibit some symptoms of narcissism. I no longer have the diagnosis.

[madisgram]

QUOTE: “Nobody cares” can mean “I currently have no emotional support.”
Not everyone comes from a supportive family. In fact, there are some families that can make symptoms of depression feel worse because you can’t talk about it. Depression can also cause damage to existing relationships and friendships. It can add to your depression to feel that you don’t have anyone to turn to in order to gain support.
How to challenge this belief:
It may very well be true that you are lacking in supports right now. Sometimes we have to create our own “family” as in developing a family of friends. It may seem daunting, but reaching out to others who are going through a similar battle with depression and joining a support group can be a good first step. Some people reach out to their place of worship. Others find support through therapy. Just because you lack support now doesn’t mean it has to remain this way."

i personally found i needed to reach outside my family to feel cared about. my friends have become my "family." their love is more unconditional and supportive. i was in agreement with her post remarks and solution for not feeling cared or understood by one's blood family.

re the mayo article-the best thing i've found is to do something nice to another person. it seems to lift my spirits and wards off depression. hard to do when depressed but i try anyway cause i know it works for me.

i too, byz, don't want others to fix me. most often i just wish to be heard. i don't know the full extent of this working but a part of it is a person validating who i am by just listening. offering no judgements or solutions to my feelings. the exception for me is having had a therapist that presented ways that i was willing to hear by trusting him. enabling me to change my perception re black or white conclusions. many of those feelings came from false beliefs i had about myself. i still have many and/or they reoccur. there were other times i shut him out cause i couldn't make that leap. i would mull over his suggestions until the next appt. keeping an open mind, asking him questions helped too.
having gotten to "know" you it may be that the law firm just wasn't as visionary as you. not being able to see the forest for the trees. not wanting change tho change can be good-thinking outside the box. thank you, byz. a really good topic.

[pachyderm]

Treatment-resistant disorder: what treatment? All treatments? All treatments that the particular person knows about, or is willing to contemplate?

Words count.

You ran that tape before, pachyderm. I was given the label. I certainly wanted to get better. I am sure you can come up with something I have not tried.

You are right, words count. They can be offensive too.

[madisgram]

double dipping here..we're all in a quest, imho, for bettering self tho at times it can be painful. when we stagnate no progress can be made and we stay stuck. for me it's no pain, no gain. it isn't easy but i forge forward. if i become exhausted doing that i take a break. sometimes i believe there are more questions than answers to help solve my complex being. i know i will never understand all the answers. i have felt utter loneliness at times, cut off from people, not understanding how life "works", feeling afraid to divulge my inner feelings and concerns, trusting others when i have been disappointed with the result. i'm a work in progress. that's the best i can do. it takes courage to seek knowledge, seek understanding and sharing our feelings with others, imo.

[elliemay]

I see. In that sense, the notion of grandiosity seems almost like an accusation rather than a diagnosis. Sounds inappropriate.

Perhaps I will say that I, in my own way, understand the description of loneliness that you have quoted in your previous post, though I suspect my experience of it is slightly different.

I would very much like for you to believe, without acknowledgment or affirmation, that you are a member of the human race. As such, acceptance and love is very much your birthright regardless of the circumstances.

I've noticed that highly intelligent persons tend to adopt their own sense of being rather than accepting how others tell them to be. This should not in any way socially handicap said persons, but it so often does.

I suspect you would be a very interesting person to know in real life. I have certainly enjoyed our exchanges here.

I wonder how universal the struggle for functionality really is, or how many people even realize that they are struggling.

[unaluna]

Hi Byzantine:
I guess this is my day for saying, it's not you, it's them. You're resistant? No, excuse me, Ts just don't know how to reach you, and they are not humble enough or have enough strength of character to admit their failing. If you were able to explain what you needed to them, well, you wouldn't need them, would you?! I would bet dollars to donuts part of the problem is your extreme intelligence. I know, I suffer greatly from this myself! Hey, who are you calling grandiose?

But seriously, folks! Borderline blah blah blah by Peter Giovacchini avail now on amazon for 1 cent This guy is humble and amazing. Maybe he worked for me because we're both Italian. But he helped me, gave me the words, to tell my current T what he was doing wrong for me. And so it began...

Coincidentally, people ask me what I'm doing now that I'm not working, and I say, Nothing, absolutely nothing, but it takes me ALL DAY! What it is.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

You ran that tape before, pachyderm. I was given the label. I certainly wanted to get better. I am sure you can come up with something I have not tried.

You are right, words count. They can be offensive too.

My comments were not aimed at you, but at the people who give labels such as "treatment resistant" without seeing what effect those words can have on people.

[Lostime]

When therapy go's wrong! It is so easy to get lost in "Cognitive Behavioural Therapy " today when a therapist don't know what they are doing.

What is CBT.

It is a way of talking about:

• how you think about yourself, the world and other people
• how what you do affects your thoughts and feelings.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealt...ments/cbt.aspx

When therapy go's wrong!

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/therap...gelicas-story/

[Perna]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

That others do care thus far has not been enough to convince me I am worthy of a better life.

I'm not sure that you have an argument fallacy problem so much as a problem with how you respond to "the others". As the first, Health Central link you gave says, "Being direct about what you need gives you more of a chance of actually being listened to and receiving a positive response."

It's not another person's effort of caring that will convince you that you are worthy of a better life, it is you, convincing yourself through your own experiences of "being listened to and receiving a positive response" after you have been direct about what you need?

[silverbells]

Dude, you gotta read Marion Solomon. She says clearly that narcissism is due to narcissistic wounds - a key concept that most people dismiss entirely when accusing someone of narcissism. Narcissistic wounds occur during childhood, and people who are wounded thus are DOOMED by factors beyond their control to be preoccupied with healing those wounds. They're preoccupied with themselves for good reason - they need to procure and integrate stuff that others got automatically. It can be done and it takes an enormous amount of work and focus and the ability to look excruciating pain in the face for seemingly endless periods of time, but you can figure out what the essence of your narcissistic wounds are (tell whomever it was who labeled you thus that they could have elaborated and been more helpful) and heal them, systematically (or unsystematically, if one of your wounds has led you to ADD!). Really - read Narcissism and Intimacy. It will help.

[silverbells]

...And your lack of will is PMS, plain and simple. Just kidding, but I KNOW there's some internal junk that just makes me feel like I'm chained to a chair for a week out of every month, so in some ways females are actually fortunate (how's that for mind-bending?) to be able to pin it on something. There is absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt for me a physiological component to my frozen states, and it makes me impossible to live with, as people can it anything from manic to - who knows? They call it whatever they like in proportion to how it affects them. And it does take a toll on other people, but they don't always understand what's happening and they thus can lash out in the WORST ways. I am learning to protect myself about it, and carve out a domain for myself in which I have the ability to shut down and make up for it and not be scrutinized, and sometimes decimated by others about it. I can still interact, but I factor all this stuff in first - it's fundamental, and after cleaning the reactors out of my life, I realize how very very entitled I am to my process, whether it's as predictable as others' I've lived with in the past or not!

[silverbells]

And may I just make an adjustment to my last msg? (One of the things I love about this website is that you can clean things up, or polish things up - refine your own statements or whatever). I'm learning to work past my own narcissistic stuff, so I realized since writing about PMS that - augh - you can have an overall concept in your mind and assume people reading understand your connections, and of course they don't! Focusing on PMS is probably going to make you feel not-very-well-listened to. And there's the 12-step approach to problem solving, which uses no cross-talk, and i'm kind of in that mode - just sharing my OWN experience. But what I really MEANT to convey is that I've learned how important it is to value my own process of accomplishing things on a day to day basis - to separate my process, which is unique, from other people's. I think the pivotal moment in this realm came to me when i was reading Nancy Ratey's book on ADHD/ADD - The Disorganized Mind. She talks about how she helps her clients by accepting them, and helping them to accept themselves. ADD/ADHD people can, as we've all read and heard, accomplish a lot more than other people who have (somehow!) managed to comply with traditional work schedules. They (we) can learn to honor the fact that our minds jump from one subject to the next, and watch those patterns for long enough to capitalize on them (she explains it better and more thoroughly than I am here). So what I'm trying to say is that long periods of inactivity are something to work around, to chip away at, with baby steps (she's SO good at getting one to see the value of baby-steps. It's REALLY affected the level of hope vs. hopelessness for me re: the way I see the world and my future). It's something to not be afraid of (embrace the monster and it shrinks) - you have to get close enough to it to see how you can impact it. Augh - I'm LEARNING to express myself concisely and effectively about this sort of thing. I hope it helps.

[AvidReader]

Thanks so much for that link, Byzantine. As someone who has always tended to engage in all-or-nothing thinking (and am in DBT for it right now), I found it very thought provoking.

I still am struggling with the "Nobody cares" attitude given that my husband asked for a divorce the day I was released from the hospital and my father and a few other relatives literally will not even say the word depression.

It's so true about the harmfulness (well, IMO) of the label "treatment resistant," which I too have been given. That label strongly implies, to me, "There is no hope." But there IS.

Again, thanks for posting that. I'll likely bookmark that site.

[Open Eyes]

Hmmm Lonliness, it certainly does mean different things and the saying that "nobody cares" well it should really say "no one seems to really understand". And that saying often includes the person who is saying it. And I don't think therapy resistant should be used towards anyone. Additionally, I don't think that anyone should entertain that way of thinking themselves.

We are all unique and in that we are alone in our own lives and how we make our way though it. Our relationships with others are our own unique way of interating with others and we can never stop learning about ourselves by communicating with others. Each and every person will have failings in the ability to communicate with others and in that there will be some re-examing how a bad communication happened and what could have made it different. There will also be many times when each person will make efforts that will be futile and will often leave one feeling very alone in their own oppinions and thoughts.

It is not uncommon for someone to have ideas that may present a different way of doing an event, business, communicating, and so on that will only remain a seed in their mind that never gets to grow. And this occurance will increase when it involves the participation of others. And that is a reality of the fact that people do not like change and often prefer to stay in a system or structure of life that they know and feel comfortable in. The truth is seeing is believing and if people see something work and have time to experience that it does work than a change can take place.

One of the reasons why the idea of people starting their own business works is that if someone is strong enough to follow through with their own seed of an idea that seed can actually have a better chance to grow. But it is more than just having an idea, it is having the ability to truely take an idea and make it happen. And that is not something that everyone can accomplish. But it doesn't make them unworthy of that idea or the intelligence to have that idea. It is understandable that if an idea is not allowed to proceed one can consider the saying "no one cares". And something is born from that experience, ANGER and LACK OF SELF WORTH.

So it begins, the seed doesn't grow, only the Anger grows. Anger turned inward=Depression. But this can also result if the seed is allowed to grow and is somehow destroyed or ruined and the same result will happen=Anger.

I had a conversation with my T today and I talked about anger and depression.
I told him that when anger is present there must be some kind of chemical that prohibits all the other emotions from happening. And as I described my theory he was knodding his head and taking notes.

But I did talk about one thing that I found shattered anger, or whatever chemical block it had. I came across something said that completely caught me off guard.
I suddenly laughed and kept that thought of that phrase and the content in which it was used, it truely shattered all my anger at that moment, struck right through it like a hammer shattering glass. Laughter is good medicine.

I have to admit that right now I do feel very lonely. And I could easily say "no one cares" but I know that it is more that "no one understands". Except HERE at PC.
To truely understand depression and even ongoing anger and all that it entails, one has to feel it to understand how difficult it is.

My therapist has told me that I am suffering from depression. Although there are different kinds of depression and he is not sure exactly which kind I have. But it does have something to do with PTSD as well as a lot of built up anger. And I know my family doesn't understand and they are frustrated and so am I.

But I will keep in mind that little phrase I saw and how that really helped. I am going to work at it just like millions of other people do. And I know it may seem like I am alone,well, I am alone to work on trying to resolve it somehow. But we are all alone in whatever we do, it a part of being human.

Open Eyes

[silverbells]

Yeah, I've had therapists and family members either say or imply that I was therapy-resistant (in so many words) and really they just couldn't get where I was coming from, and some had SO much ego invested in the process of helping me that they got really inappropriate and critical of me, when really they had NO way of putting themselves in my shoes. I had one therapist who was brilliant-like-out-of-conTROL!!! She was the very embodiment of empathy and the LAST thing she would label me with is "therapy-resistant". I gobbled up her every WORD. Therapists are human, and I think the thing that's SO corrupted about the system (the SYSTEM, I'm saying - the therapists can't help it - they're working in a corrupted system - and there's probably a better word than "corrupted" - it's just all messed up. But the problem is that they are obligated to present themselves as all-knowing. And sometimes they're WOEFULLY ill-equipped for certain clients/patients. And the system is not set up - culturally or economically - and CULTURE is HUGE in this field - to admit it. I've found I really started healing when I started very doggedly pursuing self-help. Books are always there, they don't get moody or cancel, you don't have to wait a week to engage with them, their tone is CONSISTENTLY upbeat, and they don't get threatened by you for ANY reason. And I wouldn't have become so convinced (and convicted - and thus HEALED!) if I wouldn't have studied social work, and saw it all from the inside. EEEEEEK - what a set of discoveries. TheByzantine, you're SO smart - I hope you can see that balance of power for what it is. If someone implies that you're hopeless, it really has nothing to do with the truth, just like mean people on literary sites I complain about (and sorely) arent' the BOSSES OF LITERATURE and HOW TO DISCUSS IT (my god!). They're just threatened. Or they have a point and they're not expressing it constructively. Or we're terrified of the kernel of truth in their point, and so are they, and a smoother, sager person could say it in a way that doesn't hurt in the least.

[Open Eyes]

What I like about your posts silverbells is that you have come to the realization that you are the one in charge of your own recovery so to speak. And that is the beginning of ending the thoughts of "nobody cares". And it is not about getting to a point where society deems us well, because that would run the risk of mask making.

It is more about finding our own sense of peace and understanding and our own individuality. It is not about how you are loved and appreciated, it has to come from how you love and learn to appreciate yourself. And that means letting go of the feelings of your own shortcomings and failures. And it also includes accepting that others are just going to be different with their own opinions and sense of self value.

We often judge ourselves on our ability to contol others around us and even become too sensitive to the opinions of others. One has to ask him/herself do I distaste socializing because I cannot accept the opinions of others? Or do I just decide that whatever I feel, others don't need to feel it too and I don't need high fives all the time to maintain my self esteem.

I see that you mentioned self help books silverbells, and that is a good way to continue your own journey at working on your self awareness. And that is the key.
You have realized finally that a therapist can be the embodyment of someone who can help you find ways to not be so critical of others and yourself. However the truth about gaining is not to just get angry if a therapist doesn't instantly dangle the keyes to your recovery. You have to try different keys yourself in therapy and on your own.

Sit in front of a mirror and stare at your own face. Introduce yourself to you and say, well, I am not perfect and I may think I know a lot, but I am just here for a while so I might as well lighten up and continue to learn and make efforts to enjoy life better.

Open Eyes