Adults losing touch with the youth

maybe I would do things differently nowadays .... they weren't spanked or hit hard ...

they are loved and they have turned out fine ... that's all that matters now.... Jx

((nowheretorun)) ))) said and i have to whole heartly agree with this

(( a little bit can make a big difference to a loving, innocent child... a little bit of love goes a long ways further towards better health than a little bit of hitting...)))))))

I really do after everything my son has been threw. And after raising 2 children of my own. One who was not easy to raise....But hes made it...I very much agree ((no hitting)) there is just no other answer to keeping in touch with our youth.....they need love............and understanding and caring and ppl to listen to them and teach them....I reached my son by speaking calmly....that was the only way.....they matter so very very much.....
muffy

this debate could go one forever and we can never resove it because we do see it differently. people like blue or me who have been beaten get sick at the idea of hurting anyone. as a parent i was trying to find the way to do right by my children as best i understood the faith that guided my life. the bible said a lot about training kids up to respect and love God and just as much about "do not frustrate" your children, do not treat them harshly.

when i go down to be baseline of all of this we are all saying - love the children and train them to be good, responsible people. do NOT do things that break their hearts, their spirit, their minds or bodies - that is hellishly wrong.!!!!!!

we need to agree to disagree on some of this because our different backgrounds, perspectives and degrees of abuse endured cause us to NOT be able to come to ONE consensus of how to rear our children. The Bible which i go by for spiritual guidance says to "speak the truth in love". when somebody tells me something unpleasant that i really need to know doing it with love and kindness is what helps me get past the bitter taste to the truth i need to have inside.

i appreciate that many have shared their experiences and wisdom, this is not a really easy job to do, but you all did it well! Thanks!!!

That is exactly what my mother promised that she would do (and she succeeded), so you can guess how I come down in this discussion.

Still, I would like to say that "violence" is not identical in all situations to the use of "force". It is useful to be precise in the words you use and how you use them.

Few things (if any) are identical. I too believe that language lacks precision in describing thought though some great linguists over the centuries have made profound efforts in poetic specificity. I am not a great language smith...and I often fall short at word precision.

I hope I have not failed you terribly here pachyderm and would like to know more about your thoughts of "force" without violent characteristics...?

Lenny

Force means physical contact (usually) so that one object pushes another. That is not in itself necessarily violence. The use of "force" can be done really mindfully, so that it can even prevent violence, which is uncontrolled (panicked?) force.

That is an interesting concept pachyderm,,thank you.

I will think on it.

Lenny

i agree this is one of the greatest threads ive ever read at PC!

i had an idea for those who like to hit stuff...

try hitting a basket at the youth basketball camp..

try hitting a note in your favorite song, or a chord on an instrument..

try hitting a mosquito...

try hitting a target for better health...

dont try or even think of hitting a child....

ty

I have waited awhile to see if anyone else posted...Your post says it all..((ty))

I just wanted to add one more thing. I have thought about this alot...
As I would after what happened to my son......2xs...
Its wrong for a child to be bullyed ((hit by another child anywheres)))
How can anyone think its right for a adult to hit a child?

I think people think it is OK to "hit back" -- and they do not realize that they are not hitting back at the one that hit them. They don't even remember who that was, sometimes. People can be so wrought up with their own difficulties that they do not think straight. Not much help to the victims, but the world is filled with that sort of thing, it seems to me. Maybe it is up to us who see things more clearly (we think) to change things. Become the change we want to see? Not very easy.

Exactly!
Be the change you want to see happen, instead of trying to change others.

Our minds have to be the strongest energy force there is. I believe that whether or not we know it, how we deal with our children is a reflection of how we feel about ourselves.

Children are a product of their environment. If we want change for them, then we need to create that change consciously, rather than living as though we have no control over our life.

I'm a firm believer of the "power of suggestion". And whether or not we are aware of it, every single thought that we process, through every choice made, we are creating our own reality.
And with that, I believe that what we think and how we think it, delegates every outcome. Which, in turn directly effects our children. And although extremely difficult at times, I do my best to conduct self in positive thought by which, I'm confident my daughter benefits greatly.

There is nothing more rewarding than to have your child express to you their appreciation for your efforts. That acknowledgement alone makes it all worthwhile.

Communication is the key structure to all relationships. Patience to support that communication. Acceptance to support the patience.
Trust/faith upholds acceptance. Respect establishes trust/faith. Love is the foundation which supports all.
(I think I have that in the correct order....).

Thank you all so much for all the involvement in this post. I had no idea that by posting a few random thoughts it would result in such a vast enrichment of insight from so many.

Shangrala

Interesting thread. I guess aside from the whole causing-pain-to-another-human-being-thing, one of my biggest issues with spanking is that what is learned from the experience is not the same as what is intended to be taught.

I hear and read people justifiying spanking in so many different ways, but when it comes down to it all it is is one human being in a position of power exerting physical domination over a human being who has no power. It is ONLY about power. Justifying it as 'punishment' is a load of crap. What 'offence' could possibly warrant being physically hit by someone much bigger than you? Spanking is all about one big person wanting to let one little person know who is boss. It doesn't teach children not to steal, or not to talk back, or not to do 'whatever'. It teaches children if you don't do what I say I will hit you. It teaches children that even those who say they love you have the 'right' to hurt you if they choose.

I don't know about anyone else, but those are lessons I don't want my daughter to learn. I teach her that NOBODY has the right to deliberately cause pain to ANYBODY.

I never 'punish' my daughter. That doesn't mean she doesn't make mistakes as she goes through the process of growing up. She makes plenty!! When she makes mistakes I help her learn how to make things right again. She experiences the natural consequences of her actions... if she spills something she cleans it up; is she breaks something that belongs to someone else we work out a way for her to pay for it; when she talks back to me I tell her l don't like being spoken to that way and I'll be willing to listen to her when she's ready to talk to me respectfully. When she makes mistakes (ie: behaves 'badly') I show her how to make better choices. I discuss with her what felt right, what felt wrong, what she could do differently in the future. I help her understand the outcomes of her behaviors and help her learn the tools to manage experiences more successfully next time. I treat her with respect always, and expect that she treats me, herself, and all others with the same.

I don't view respect as something to be earned - I view it as a right (if only the rest of the world agreed with me! - sigh). I have the right to be treated with respect. My daughter has the right to be treated with respect. And I expect that she and I will do our best to practice respect in our relationships with others.

I feel very, very strongly about being respectful of others. And - I'm sorry - but there is nothing respectful about a fully grown adult physically striking a 40lb human being at all.

Lenny, I really like the way you stated your beliefs in this paragraph. I especially like "Spankings' are mild western annoitments of power as compared to other areas of our world."

To anoint:

1 : to smear or rub with oil or an oily substance
2 a : to apply oil to, as a sacred rite especially for consecration b : to choose by or as if by divine election ; also : to designate as if by a ritual anointment

THAT is how spankings should be thought of. It is NOT about our own anger, but about the degree of the wrong action taken by a child.

It is the final recourse that a parent has to teach their child right from wrong and should be used as such. It should not used as a blanket punishment for anything the child does that the parent doesn't approve of.

If you ask me, yelling and calling names, which most parents do as "discipline" is what truly leaves scars on the psyche of a child. My mother may have smacked me with my own leather belt. My recalled feelings on that are mild compared to the names the grandmother called me! My mother's "spanking" made me angry. The grandmother's words eventually made me think "if I have the name, I might as well play the game." That left a farther reaching effect on me than any beating with my own leather belt!

It's really interesting to me how a group of people can get off on a tangent of one little aspect of a whole and ignore the rest. The original subject was "are adults losing touch with the youth." It wasn't "do adults abuse children."

Lenny, I'd like to hear what you have to say on the original topic.

Hitting a child should be thought of as a sacred right for consecration?????

I am incredulous.
Let me live in my little corner of the world where it remains the sacred right of every child to not be hit by the adults that are supposed to nurture and protect them.

Obviously, you haven't read all my posts. You might start with my first response.

No, I had read them all, Sept.

I appreciate all the responses in this thread, and think those who have contributed have maintained a potentially "hot topic" very well. I appreciate that more than you know.

That said, as with any long conversation that can take twists and turns, this has taken a turn to the "religious". I would ask that the religious discussion be kept to a minimal and if you feel you can't do that, you might want to revisit the thread at another time, or place your response in PM.

Because of the nature of some of the postings, I've removed three (quoting of the Bible or quoting posts quoting the Bible). Please refer to the guidelines when posting which states that we should keep the discussion of religious matters limited. Quoting the Bible or going into specific religious beliefs for discussion isn't limited. I'm sorry.

Again, I appreciate the responses here, but moreso the consideration used in wording them for all reading. Please continue to use that consideration as well as the guidelines.

KD

If it's one thing I regret about bringing up my children it is sometimes that I did smack them ... I never spanked or abused them, IMO I thought I was doing the right thing at the time .... I now think very differently .... I was anxious about this whole subject and thought a lot about it .... as they grew older I used reason and communication and never hit out .... I guess I was wrong what I did and know that now .... I never did it to 'show them who was boss' or to intimidate them NEVER .... I did it because I thought they would learn from it .... I was wrong .... being the person I am today things would be different ..... thank God they didn't grow into violent people ....... Jinny xoxoxoxoxo

There is not doubt that language can be used as a heavy club. It can smack at our weakest points. Done repetively and with accompanying rage pointed words can do long term damage. Abuse is abuse and I don't see any competetion on which form is more so...

But wouldn't it be nice if we hurled words instead of missles....

Lenny

Are we losing touch with the youth?

That's a whole "nuther" subject, Lenny.

If you look again, Luce, you will see that "anoint" wasn't my word. I just borrowed it. LOL

What's sad is that the real point has been missed.

Well we heard that Sept....

I made some comments on the original question in number 7 of this thread.

Sometimes the best lessens in class are when the book is discarded and a student asks something from the heart..

I think that happened here and if I was disrespectfull to the author of this thread by following the tangent...I offer my sincere appologies..

Lenny

Really?

The use of violent power(force) to resolve conflict is discovered once we mature?

Lenny

No worries! No offense taken whatsoever.

In all honesty, I am surprised of the responses. And due to the fact that the direction of the topic had detoured from what I was initially questioning, I can't help but to find amusement in the mere fact that I found myself reviewing my initial post to see if I actually was asking about the discipline vs. abuse, rather than the acknowledgement/respect.....lol...how funny.

Come to think of it though......HAVE adults lost touch with the youth?????