Self-Perception, how well do you really know yourself?

QUOTE: Don't put yourself down, there are enough other people that will do it for you. ...

No s#@t!!!! Now THAT's a good one. Something I shoud put on my mirror as a reminder. That would be a good signatue statement.

"Beauty is in the I"? ....

Maybe that's true in some cases but the beauty that matters in getting the good things in life is objective, life it or not.

Nah... I disagree. If you are comfortable in your skin, you act it. That attracts people to you no matter what you look like on the outside.

Guess now I could feel like you were when no one made any comment about your quote. Sorta rejected, eh? Well, I still stand with what I said to you. The most important person that needs to believe it is YOU.

Personally, I've come to believe what the article said and I try to live by it every chance I get, especially when I know I'm going to be around people that like to criticise me. I don't have to let their negative statements inside my boundaries. It works for me!

At least I've learned that when people don't particularly like that article or what I have to say about it, I KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it wasn't ignored because I posted it. It's not about me. It's about them.

I used to think EVERYTHING was all about me but that was because most of us with mental illness obsess about ourselves and we think everyone else does, too. I was deluded in my thinking that I had, or should have, that much power over people. I don't. That was rather presumptuous! Even great teachers and prophets are unpopular and are not listened to. So who did I think I was that anyone HAD TO pay attention to anything I said? I did it because I was in the throws of my own mental illness. When I got that under control, I realized that SOME people will listen and some won't. But as long as I listen and I allow the positive to become a part of me, that's all that really matters. I can't change anyone else, but I can sure change me! It's ME that I have to live with, that I have to be comfortable with.

Hello September & Guy --

First, Guy, you wrote: <font color="purple">I'm a little surprised there were no comments. I guess if someone else had shared this, it would have gotten some attention. </font>

1Day responded: <font color="purple">Personally, I thought it was a good statement...but also something I've been saying for a while. I think the statement is sooooooo true. </font>

I'd have to second that. It's unusual for people to post, "Yes, I agree," over and over. People tend to post if they disagree or if they have advice or experiences to share. That is called dialogue or conversation, and it is the essence of human communication. Moreover, this is a very short quotation. How much discussion can it realistically promote? Inferring that the brief quotation would have been discussed if posted by someone else is a suggestion (a) that is inconsistent with observation of the ebb and flow of conversation on the threads and (b) an interesting "dig" at people who have offered friendship and support. I can't help wonder, Gary, if this kind of subtle jibe is typical of your interactions with others and contributes to your sense of isolation.

Second, SeptemberMorn wrote: <font color="purple">My gut feeling is that it may be too positive for most people. Too many don't want to hear it because their disease has them in such a negative state of mind. It really is frustrating!</font>

I didn't find the post "too positive." I found it rather mundane. Nice that someone else just found it out, but not exactly a Eureka, let's send fireworks into the sky moment. I also couldn't help but wonder how you know whether people read the article or not.

In sum, I am feeling cranky about this line of comments. I take them to mean:

<font color="blue">People on the forums are cliquish.

People on the forums shut out certain people just for the hay of it.

People on the forums refuse to help themselves.

People on the forums enjoy their pity pots.

People on the forums refuse help when it is offered.</font>

September, I know you don't mean that. I don't know Gary well enough to know what he intended by his jibe. I probably am just being grumpy. Sorry in advance .

SpazKatt said something very interesting a few replies back. - "I think I stink. Everyone else thinks I'm awsome." ......

I think she is sincere in saying she's well liked and for good reason. She also implies, however, that she doesn't like herself. I don't understand why you think you "stink", SpazKatt but I thought I'd use this as an example to others how this contradicts the saying that "you have to accept yourself before others will." SpazKatt, you also happen to be a beautiful looking woman. Again, I hope you don't mind me pointing this out. The reason I say this is because it debunks the notion that "others will only perceive you the way you perceive yourself". Why? ... Objective beauty is very important.

If others perceive me the way in which I perceive myself, then nobody would ever talk to me. I have a lot of self-hatred, probably far more than my fair share, pretty much stemming from my childhood. I never once heard "I love you" from either of my parents my entire life. I was always ridiculed, accused and put down for never being capable of doing anything right. When I hear a negative comment thrown at me directly by more than one person, it is a little hard to accept that it is about them and not about me. How long can I choose to ignore such comments as being false, even though I personally fail to see myself as such. So, with reluctance I throw it on the long pile of reasons I loathe myself. Yeah, I know I have good attributes but I wonder how many of them are ever noticed. As previously stated, in our minds, the negative will always take presidence in our minds. We've been programmed this way our whole lives. So when somebody finally tells you that they love you or pays you a compliment, it's hard to comprehend and you're waiting for the other shoe to drop, and in my case, it inveratibly always does. To stand in front of a mirror and tell myself all these good qualities about myself just doesn't seem to work because I can't believe them. The negative is ground in so deep, it sometimes seems impossible to override with the possitive that I may receive. I feel really needy, I need constant reassurance that if somebody says they love me and won't ever leave me that is the truth. It has nothing to do with having trust in the other person, although it is always perceived that way and I'm sure it wears very thin on them trying to convince me of that, but it is about my beliefs and prior experiences in my own life. Yes, this is a new person who hasn't done those things to me and it's not fair to assume that this new person will be any different from all others in the past. It's hard, it's VERY, VERY hard to not wait for the other shoe to drop no matter how much I trust this person. It's not about them and believing them at all, it's strictly about me and me alone. And also, separating a failure in my life to defining myself as a failure is just as difficult. Again, my past comes into play. It all boils down to my extreme lack of self-esteem, that is not going to improve overnight. I do have great empathy for the person who is trying to get through to my screwed-up brain and I feel sorry for them and their constant efforts to help me to feel deserving of all the good that they are giving me but I guess I just don't feel like I deserve it. Wouldn't it be easy if there was an 'erase' button we could push for all those old tapes that play over and over in our brains.

Cat, as trying as I am, and I know that you're trying very hard and I'm trying just as hard, please don't give up on me. I need constant reassurance and I'm sure that is very exhausting for you. I understand that and I'm sorry that it is so hard for you to get through to me but you are baby, just not as quickly as both of us would like.

Non-existant self-esteem is just another of many issues for me in therapy. I think I'll be in therapy for many, many YEARS but maybe with cat's love for me, he'll start to break through those barriers that I've had for so many years, starting with the one that I'm not lovable. If cat can love me, then I have to start to believe that my old tapes in that aspect must be wrong. I'm hoping he will help me break through other negative things that are playing in those old tapes and have been for years. I know he's the first person who has had much luck in actually breaking through my barriers and getting through to the real person who is buried deep underneath. He's obviously seeing the me that really is and not the me that I've been taught to believe that I am for many years. I love you cat!!! Whatever you're doing, it's working, you're getting through. I know it's trying for you at times and you get frustrated thinking it's not working but it is, it really is. Patience is the key to get through to a lifetime of bad taping. You're doing a great job and I love you.

wow Guy thanks!

Hi folks,

I've noticed a little subtle disagreement on this very interesting thread.

The issue seems to be about low self esteem.

I believe that low self esteem comes with the territory in most mental illness. If we have also been systematically rubbished in childhood, then it is a 'double whammy'. A kind of arrogant defensiveness can grow around us, and this brings more relationship trouble in later life.

Low self esteem is a cruel master, and it continues to hurt us no matter how well we learn to cover it up. We could be complimented a million times and it wouldn't get through.

We could be lucky enough to find that dream partner and low self esteem would wreck the relationship for us. Low self esteem thrives on slights, jealousies, attempts to control, paranoia.

A person with an adequate level of self esteem doesn't need to take slights, get jealous, try to keep control or get paranoid in their relationships. This is because they are not looking for the relationship to complete them; they are already a complete individual. If a person with adequate self esteem comes home and finds their partner in a low mood, they don't automatically thing. "It's me!". They can cope with that jag of loneliness coming from their partner's mood problem.

If a person regularly feels isolated, then I believe that the feeling is internal to that person, and the only place to deal with the problem is in the individual. It took me half a lifetime to realise that I was giving out insecure and needy 'vibes' to people I wanted to be close to and those vibes werestronger than physical features, or clothes or money or anything. The vibes stopped me getting intimacy because people were uncomfortable around me, although I denied it. There is no place lonelier.

In my view, an adequate level of self esteem will put anyone in a good place, with the ability to socialise in the world, take a few knocks, make some friends and maybe find a nice partner that will be happy to be with them.

I have met quite a few happy single people, but they have all been people who were comfortable with themselves - they had to be.

Cheers, Myzen.

PS - I've just realised that this post might be a drift off-topic. IG's original post was maybe just about 'meeting up' with a partner, and I'm talking about something deeper, which may not be IG's issue. If so, my apologies IG.

I wish I could express or explain my lack of self esteem to my husband the way you did in this post. As I was reading I kept thinking I was reading about myself. As it is I have come to blows with my mirror today. It keeps swearing at me.

You said once before - like two peas in a pod. Except for the Cat part. The love of my life is a Dog!

AG - I think you are very, very beautiful!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
A person with an adequate level of self esteem doesn't need to take slights, get jealous, try to keep control or get paranoid in their relationships. This is because they are not looking for the relationship to complete them; they are already a complete individual. If a person with adequate self esteem comes home and finds their partner in a low mood, they don't automatically thing. "It's me!". They can cope with that jag of loneliness coming from their partner's mood problem.

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This is SO EXACTLY what the article I posted is trying to achieve! Somehow, somewhere we need to find at least one positive thing about ourselves and build on that. That does not preclude the need to be encouraged and supported in our efforts. Yet, it is the individual that has to make their minds up that no matter what anyone else has said, there IS some good in us. We have to start somewhere and build on that one good. We need to convince ourselves that no matter how small that one positive is, it's worth building on. Of course, we can also choose to leave it as it is.

Thanks, Myzden!

Ok I have two positive things: I like the color of my eyes and I think my shoulders are sexy... ok 3! I like my freckles!

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Hi Angel --

It can also be hard to predict how our behaviors may affect someone else -- and that can bounce back to slap us on the arse.


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Consider me slapped and I'm not referring by you. It really hurts when it comes back to slap us on the arse as you say, especially when it is so unexpected.

I wish I had sexy shoulders! I wish I had anything sexy! LOL And I LOVE freckles, even the ones on my arms. hehehe Did you know that freckles are where the angels have kissed you? They are!

I think you're sweet and lots of fun! {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Katt}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
People on the forums are cliquish.

People on the forums shut out certain people just for the hay of it.

People on the forums refuse to help themselves.

People on the forums enjoy their pity pots.

People on the forums refuse help when it is offered.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

You know... I have found your statements to be true at one point or another but not always and not the same people. Sometimes I'm already cranky when they have been true and then other times, when I find them to be true, I get cranky! Sometimes you can't win for loosing, I guess. It blows over, though. I hope your crankiness goes away soon. It's no fun!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wants2Fly}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I didn't find the post "too positive." I found it rather mundane.

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Could you explain your use of the word "mundane" here? I looked up the word just make sure I understood it correctly and didn't find the word to fit. Or rather... "mundane" doesn't fit the article for me. What I'm asking in all sincerety is, why do you think the article is mundane?

QUOTE: Consider me slapped and I'm not referring by you. ......

If it's me you do refer to, I am sorry. I would never intend to make anyone feel bad. I just have a different way of expressing myself. I could print positive word after word but that's not how I feel. I don't believe putting on a happy face will solve anything. Now there are things I feel positive about in life but this subject just isn't one of them. I shouldn't have to say I'm sorry for being just me but I guess that's what it kind of comes down to.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
QUOTE: Consider me slapped and I'm not referring by you. ......

If it's me you do refer to, I am sorry. I would never intend to make anyone feel bad. I just have a different way of expressing myself. I could print positive word after word but that's not how I feel. I don't believe putting on a happy face will solve anything. Now there are things I feel positive about in life but this subject just isn't one of them. I shouldn't have to say I'm sorry for being just me but I guess that's what it kind of comes down to.

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No, no, no!!! It's not you at all, in fact, it's NOBODY in this thread at all. I'm sorry I lead you to feel that way. Damn I need to learn how to communicate with people.

Angel, a couple thoughts. I think we are more likely to believe the negative things we think about ourselves than the bad things others try and lay on us. We are our own worst enemies sometimes. I convince myself that I am unworthy, unhappy and unloved often enough to believe it much of the time.

Also, we can surprise ourselves and discover that we are not who we percieve ourselves to be. THis often occurs in some kind of crisis, good or bad, like when we survive the loss of an important person or when someone attacks you mentally or physically and you perservere. Or when some nice traumatic thing like a promotion or a heartfelt compliment or the adoration of someone you care about crumbles the walls of self-doubt.

It is almost certain that you are a better person than you would lead yourself to believe.

Topher

I sure don't feel that way. If I could only stop crying.

I'm so sorry there, Angel! I always assume the worst. I guess I could learn something from that as could we all. I wish I could say something to make you feel better.

Not your fault. I always assume the worst too, something I'm trying to work on. I wish there was something you could say to make me feel better too but there's only one person who could make me feel better now.

I meant to be encouraging. I'm sorry if I had the opposite effect.

Topher

Ok... I feel that I need to clarify the list that I quoted. Yes, I've felt those things as different times since I've been a member here. HOWEVER... it doesn't necessariy mean that it's FACT or that the membership here is guilty of these things. More than anything, it has been a reflection of MY OWN state of mind. This has brought a new revelation. When I first posted to Isolated Guy that his quotation was great, it was my misquided effort to make him feel better. To tell the truth, the quotation didn't ring a bell for me. I didn't really understand it. (Eating my own words.) Since I've been giving thought to the "list," I've had another revelation. If indeed, "A failure is an event, never a person," then we effectively shed any responsibility for our own actions. Somewhere, some time, we need to start accepting the proper amount of responsibility for what happens around us. Granted, we can't control everything or everyone, but there IS a certain amount of personal responsibility that we need to own for ourselves. (Whoa! De Ja Vous! Where have I said this before??)

My mother always blamed "Fate" for her sad state in life, when in retrospect, I can see so MANY, MANY things she could have done to change her life!! She was more comfortable denying her responsibility for her life. It was so much easier to blame her mother, my half-syblings, her in-laws and finally me, for her misery.

Like Dave (DEXTER) used to say "LIVE IS WHAT WE MAKE IT."

I think there is a difference between considering an event a failure, rather than a person, and shirking responsibility.

If you blame fate for everything, you are shirking responsibility.

But if you consider a person a failure, you are discounting that person's worth. A failure IS an event. It's an action of a person, whose attempt didn't quite meet the mark this time. That PERSON is not a failure, their ACTION is a failure. The person IS NOT a failure, they FAILED.

There is a difference between BEING something and DOING something. And in my opinion, THAT is the point of the quote.

I didn't pipe up because I had no commment until now, but I "got it" and I liked the quote a LOT, LOT, LOT. It was definitely something I needed to hear right now in my life.

angela

as is my custom, I do not force myself to try and read the whole thread... but of course I have something to say!

Some things that are posted (often by Sep) are so profound, there IS nothing else to say.

Last night at a fundraising dinner of about 700, my hand spasmed and my empty water glass was knocked over against a heavy glass plate... I was surprised by the loudness (but then, everyone was waiting for the speaker to be introduced..) of course everyone at the table and nearby stared.. speechless... I promptly said, ok and my hands never left my wrists! They laughed and moved on...

Being the center of an awkward situation (more for others since they aren't accustomed to it) is where I live, with my disabilities. It isn't me, it's my disorders. I have to forget that they all don't know the WHY behind things dealing with me... it has to be enough that I know why.

People can become clique-ish because it's our nature to find others like us, and maybe moreso securing when we have an illness?

Some ppl do seem to refuse help... but that is a judgment I try very, very hard to avoid. We here have to remember that it might not be them (or me) it might very well be the DISORDER??? I'm glad for some of my memory problems because only then do I recall the severely impudent who are constantly advised the same thing and yet continue to ask the same question over and over.
[What is it to us, though? We are here for and to give support. If someone needs to hear the same thing, what is that to us? That we only give our energy and support to those who can take it in the form we choose to give it? If that doesn't help, then, what? we give up on them? That's rather judgmental. At that point it isn't about them, but me.