Your experience with BPD?

I have a friend whom I knew had been diagnosed ADD-PTSD-
Anxiety Disorder and 'possibly' BPD.

I've just read some articles on BPD here at Psych Central.She does seem to have some of these BPD traits.Alot of the time we relate great
together then she will lash out in the most verbally violent way Ive ever heard anywhere.I'm stunned.

What I'd like to ask you here, who have had this diagnosis is:
what are your symptons/behaviour[s] according to you or your docs..

I'm just trying to seperate what BPD is as opposed to the other issues my friend has.

Also if you have read the articles here...would you say they are fairly accurate?

And please forgive my ignorance on this subject.

Thanks so much,
MG

Hi Mannaguy!
I have the BPD disorder very distinctively. Quickly the symptoms can include:unstable moods & behaviors, poor self image, Relationships can be stormy & rather intense.Begins early in childhood, feelings of emptiness, anger, need nuturing, depression, may also have other disorders (ie subs. abuse, impulsiveness,black/white thinking etc.) If you can accept your friend with this disability, You are awesome, and she is one of the luckiest people having a friend like you.

BPD for years was my own personal hell. Your friend is lucky to have a good friend. I was out of control

Self injuring
acting out negativitly for attention
In the hospital montly until they shipped me to a state long term hospital
Don't trust no one and to afraid of being abandoned to connect
Wanting so bad to be loved but pushing everyone away
Anger mainly directed at myself.
It seemed for a while my goal was to stay in the hospital where I felt safe

Stick to your friend because they will need all the support they can get. Even if they are pushing you away don't leave unless you are in danger.

I want to thank you both for your replies above-i was
very touched.
After a serious email assault by her today:
she told me to 'Walk Away" amongst other things..
I was/am ready to..but you've given me some hope.

And I feel for what you've both been thru too.

At this point we are far from each other-i dont feel in any danger-
but i do have a family to look out for..not sure what to do..
Not sure how 'literally' to take her threats or requests..

if I bring up Therapy or try to help or be too kind she will first consider the idea..THEN..the next day will trash it and me...

Ive blocked her email for now--i jus need time to ponder all this..
I so care about her & I'm certainly not perfect-with a history of alcohol-far behind me now tho...my buttons do get pushed tho..

i wonder how i could turn her towards getting help..

what have you all done??

thanks so much! I mean that.

M

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I'm just trying to seperate what BPD is as opposed to the other issues my friend has.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Good luck with that!

I guess I could give a little more help than that to you:

Let's see...I believe the symptoms of BPD listed are fairly accurate, but as I have said many times, there are varying degrees of intensity of each symptom, and not every borderline experiences every symptom.

Also, there are some cross-over symptoms that occur when one suffers from more than one illness (meaning some of the same symptoms can occur with different illnesses).

As well, one illness can trigger symptoms of another illness, making it almost impossible to separate one from the other.

The " 'possibly' BPD" idea came from her doctor, right? Because with all those illnesses attributed to her, her head must be spinning.

I'm guessing her docs are still trying to figure out if she really does suffer from all of these, or just one or two. After all, many of these symptoms overlap as well, especially PTSD and Anxiety. They can also cause the lashing out you have described.

Please be as patient as you can. These extreme behaviours are usually the result of a trigger and a trigger could be something as simple as a word, or a picture or even a smell or a perceived look. It could be anything!

What I do know is that when I freak out like that, it generally has little to do with what is actually happening at the moment, and more to do with what has been brought up, emotionally, for me from the subject at hand.

Hope this makes some sense. Oh, yeah, making sense to others is extremely difficult, too.

AlteredState01-thanks alot
very imformative-
i thought i had posted a more in depth response-
but i must have forgot to post..

i will say more later

thanks much!

M

> i wonder how i could turn her towards getting help.

Unless you know for certain where it is, do not try. The greatest help for now (I think) is to listen, listen, listen. Do not try to make her do anything. Listen. And if you don't understand something, it is OK to ask a question -- if the question is really a question, if it is really meant to get information, to help you understand something.

Listen. Don't say you are listening; just do it. It may be OK to invite more talking from her if she stops; I don't know.

Listen.

AlteredState01 Hi.

Yes the last visit to her pcychiatrist he said that she "may have BPD".She told me as such but dismissed this concept.But then again she dismisses the other diagnosis UNLESS its used
to keep me and others away.

If I ask too many questions & she gets stressed she will say
she cant cope becuz of her Anxiety Disorder.
However alot of the other times she can discuss not only her problems/feelings & mine as well.Very sensitively & in a realistic way.

I do feel she has a violent/verbal reaction to certain areas..
mainly around love/relationships/families.And generally everyone else is to blame for her stress.
Now, that is something I can relate to having been a huge 'blamer' in the past-specially to do with drugs & alcohol.

Let me back up a bit for a sec...
Yes, her head may be spinning-the doctor is trying to make sense of it with yet further diagnosis & possibly to change & enhance her medications.
The question is, how am I supposed to know
which part of her behaviour is 'normal' emotional difficulty
and which part part is to do with BPD & the rest.

How am I supposed to know when Im steping on thin ice
& we are both about to fall thru the ...?

This is the part that makes ME feel desperate..
And once again Ive seen her other friends feel the same.
I consider myself a really good listener-but I'm not passive,
i do nudge gently-she does come out with stuff she's told no-one before...but then WHOP! I get this huge back lash.

What would you prefer someone in my situation do..say nothing?
Engage?
Patience I have plenty of-but it IS a relationship-I have been hurt-
when Ive mentioned this to her-that in itself causes more back-lash..

Sorry for going on here...
and i do appreciate your thoughtful comments.

M
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AlteredState01 said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I'm just trying to seperate what BPD is as opposed to the other issues my friend has.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Good luck with that!

I guess I could give a little more help than that to you:

Let's see...I believe the symptoms of BPD listed are fairly accurate, but as I have said many times, there are varying degrees of intensity of each symptom, and not every borderline experiences every symptom.

Also, there are some cross-over symptoms that occur when one suffers from more than one illness (meaning some of the same symptoms can occur with different illnesses).

As well, one illness can trigger symptoms of another illness, making it almost impossible to separate one from the other.

The " 'possibly' BPD" idea came from her doctor, right? Because with all those illnesses attributed to her, her head must be spinning.

I'm guessing her docs are still trying to figure out if she really does suffer from all of these, or just one or two. After all, many of these symptoms overlap as well, especially PTSD and Anxiety. They can also cause the lashing out you have described.

Please be as patient as you can. These extreme behaviours are usually the result of a trigger and a trigger could be something as simple as a word, or a picture or even a smell or a perceived look. It could be anything!

What I do know is that when I freak out like that, it generally has little to do with what is actually happening at the moment, and more to do with what has been brought up, emotionally, for me from the subject at hand.

Hope this makes some sense. Oh, yeah, making sense to others is extremely difficult, too.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Mannaguy,

Wow, now my head is spinning!

Okay, let's break this down...
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Yes the last visit to her pcychiatrist he said that she "may have BPD".She told me as such but dismissed this concept.But then again she dismisses the other diagnosis UNLESS its used to keep me and others away.
If I ask too many questions & she gets stressed she will say she cant cope becuz of her Anxiety Disorder

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Well, this behaviour can be attributed to all three of the dx's you mentioned. One thing that is interesting and very much a part of BPD, is black and white thinking. She is vaccillating between believing she is ill and not believing she is ill - black and white; all or nothing thinking.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
.
However alot of the other times she can discuss not only her problems/feelings & mine as well.Very sensitively & in a realistic way.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Now this is when she is in reality. She is calm, clear in her logic, empathetic and sympathetic. Normal, intelligent and loving. So, she has lucid periods, which is great! She is not totally nuts all of the time. A very good sign.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I do feel she has a violent/verbal reaction to certain areas..mainly around love/relationships/families.And generally everyone else is to blame for her stress.
Now, that is something I can relate to having been a huge 'blamer' in the past-specially to do with drugs & alcohol.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

OK, now that sounds like BPD, but BPD also includes being in a highly anxious state alot, if not most, of the time. But then again, so does PTSD, and of course, General Anxiety Disorder (GAD). One never really know what, where or when they will be triggered. Although I take meds to keep me calm, they very rarely work when I am triggered.

A physical/verbal reaction to a trigger happens faster than what the mind can process. This is why reactions are so instantaneous and seemingly out of the blue. And don't worry, these reactions are probably as much of a surprise to her as they are to you. And trust me, they hurt her as deeply or even more so than they hurt you. I say this, not because I feel as though you should be able to "handle" these outbursts, but because they are, at this point, uncontrollable. Using myself as an example, I find it virtually impossible to leave my house because I do not have good control over my emotions, and it sickens me to watch how horrid I can be to someone, to the point of wanting to die. I HATE the fact that I hurt others. I HATE myself even more when I can't stop it. It is all so irrational to me, and I find it more and more difficult to forgive myself as times goes on, even though I know much of it can be attributed to my illness. Oh, and the more I hate myself, the more I am triggered.

Can you see the cycle here? This cycle can spin out of control by continually feeding on itself, pulling her into a darker state of being.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Yes, her head may be spinning-the doctor is trying to make sense of it with yet further diagnosis & possibly to change & enhance her medications.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

She sees a doctor (psych doc?) and she takes meds. So at some level, she must believe that there is something wrong with her thinking and her behaviours. If her doctors are throwing all these different dx's at her, then I would suspect she is probably not very well at all, at this point. How could she be? I think her doctor is doing her a disservice by doing this. If she already experiences anxiety, what do you think all this is doing to her? It ain't relaxing her and it is certainly not providing comfort to her in any way, shape or form.

While my doctor acknowledged that I suffered from depression, he would not and did not provide me with "possibilities of having this or that illness." I was eternally grateful as it spared me the utter confusion your friend is dealing with now. Of course, I did not recognize it at the time. I just knew that my doctors didn't really know what was wrong with me, and until they were sure, that is when they told me. A diagnosis of BPD is not one that can be made quickly, and it is not one that is given to someone lightly. The ramifications of being diagnosed with BPD can be quite far reaching in many areas of life, including career aspirations and such. You already know how it can affect family life.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
The question is, how am I supposed to know
which part of her behaviour is 'normal' emotional difficulty
and which part part is to do with BPD & the rest.

How am I supposed to know when Im steping on thin ice
& we are both about to fall thru the ...?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Uh, well, it is most likely you will never really know. The only advice I can offer you with this: Watch her closely. Watch what sets her off. Like I mentioned above, she is most likely not even aware of what, where or when things will set her off, but you have already isolated a few instances that do trigger her - love/relationships/family - these are always the biggies. As for the subtler ones? Well, that is a total hit and miss thing, and I doubt you will ever really be able to catch them all. And I don't really think you should be responsible to have to catch them all. She must take as much, and even more responsibility than you in this area. She is, after all, responsible for her life and learning how to taking control of it. No one can do that for her.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
This is the part that makes ME feel desperate..
And once again Ive seen her other friends feel the same.
I consider myself a really good listener-but I'm not passive,
i do nudge gently-she does come out with stuff she's told no-one before...but then WHOP! I get this huge back lash.

What would you prefer someone in my situation do..say nothing? Engage? Patience I have plenty of-but it IS a relationship-I have been hurt-when Ive mentioned this to her-that in itself causes more back-lash..

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

She will never have an easy time of learning to control herself, and I am doubtful that she will ever be able to entirely control all the aspects of her illness(es). Nor will you.

You have, at least, all the qualities one could hope for in a relationship such as this. But I believe, the one quality that has helped me the most, is the people who have had very strong boundaries of their own, and do not allow me to push beyond them.

You see, my boundaries will always continue to shift, because I am constantly battling a fear of well, everything! The more frightened I am, the more I will try to get what I need in order to feel safe, even if it means doing things that may be not so nice. I am very aware of this behaviour in me, so I can stop myself from doing too much damage, but I continue to do alot of damage, and it is mainly in my relationships.

Knowing where that all-important boundary is with EACH person in my life, keeps me fairly grounded. I know EXACTLY when I have to stop, otherwise I understand that they will be deal-breakers, so to speak.

As for your patience? I am sorry, I don't hold out much hope for you, but I think I am projecting my current problems onto you here.

I have driven so many kind and loving and extremely patient people away from me. Of course, that was never my intent, but it IS my reality.

If you continue to study this illness, you will most likely come across a saying that goes like this: "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!" I believe it is a title of a book about BPD.

Living with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder is like having to walk on eggshells every single day. It really takes it's toll.

I have to depend on others when they say it is possible to love a borderline, but I have yet to experience that.

I do not blame former friends or lovers in any way, for I can barely live with myself most of the time (I am really annoying, even to me!).

All you can do is your best. Although she may not ever acknowledge it, or she may never forgive you for eventually having to leave for your own sanity, she will ALWAYS appreciate that you have tried your best to love her.

I cannot write anymore. I have recently lost my b/f of almost 7 years, mainly because of my illness. He gave it his best shot. I know that, and I will always love him for it. But, for the sake of his sanity, he had to let me go.

I wish you all the best, mannaguy. And I pray your girlfriend eventually gets the correct diagnosis and the appropriate help that she needs.



------------------------

Please let me know if you need something explained a little further. I haven't the energy right now to edit this message properly.

The screaming in my head is coming back... (just an insider comment).

AlteredState01: that was one heck of a reply &
it means so much more coming from someone dealing with it.i can sense your pain-I can sense you sense mine...thats a lot of senses to put in one sentence tho!

Im actually going to print it & read it several times to fully absorb it.

One thing that she has mentioned quite a few times is that nearly every man/boyfriend (maybe some women friends too) have walked away hating her guts.
At first I told her: "Hey..I'll never do that"..and its true I don't want to!
I'd rather educate myself and work on 'my' triggers and remain a true friend...but I can see how frustraing it is for her & me...by what you've said. God give me strength.

I really 'super' appreciate the time & effort that went into your response
once again.I shall probably be back with further thoughts on what you wrote.

In the meantime stay well.Your story has touched me..
thanks
M

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mannaguy said:
One thing that she has mentioned quite a few times is that nearly every man/boyfriend (maybe some women friends too) have walked away hating her guts.
At first I told her: "Hey..I'll never do that"..and its true I don't want to!
I'd rather educate myself and work on 'my' triggers and remain a true friend...but I can see how frustraing it is for her & me...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Rather than getting overwhelmed, it might be useful to say at some point when she is getting to you, something like "May the Bird of Paradise fly up your nose..."

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mlpHolmes said:
Hi Mannaguy!
I have the BPD disorder very distinctively. Quickly the symptoms can include:unstable moods &amp; behaviors, poor self image, Relationships can be stormy &amp; rather intense.Begins early in childhood, feelings of emptiness, anger, need nuturing, depression, may also have other disorders (ie subs. abuse, impulsiveness,black/white thinking etc.) If you can accept your friend with this disability, You are awesome, and she is one of the luckiest people having a friend like you.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I am trying!--at the moment I feel like she hates me--im waiting this one out-taking one at a time...

thanks alot

M

twirls01: thanks!--the thing that stands out is you saying:
dont leave unless I was in danger..

well no..we are quite far apart at the moment,,,
but emotionally some danger for me---
but since Ive seen these responses & talked to you guys
Im starting to see her hell for what it is..I have to admit-
i only 'wanted' to see the good before-blinders were on...

Being here with y'all has lightened my load-im not taking it as personally..
just feel sad about the whole thing..but sadness ive learned to deal with well-im cool!

thanks so much!!!

M
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
twirls01 said:
BPD for years was my own personal hell. Your friend is lucky to have a good friend. I was out of control

Self injuring
acting out negativitly for attention
In the hospital montly until they shipped me to a state long term hospital
Don't trust no one and to afraid of being abandoned to connect
Wanting so bad to be loved but pushing everyone away
Anger mainly directed at myself.
It seemed for a while my goal was to stay in the hospital where I felt safe

Stick to your friend because they will need all the support they can get. Even if they are pushing you away don't leave unless you are in danger.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Dear Mannaguy,You are truly a Special Blessing. Having a friend like you can make all the difference to you & your friend just by you being there. Your abundance of compassion & empathy will turn into lasting gifts of love.

God bless,
Marian

If her psych/ therapist is right about he actually having
BPd then I can see where i may have made a mistake.
I did listen for a long time...finally I said:
why dont you try pscychotherapy...ease off on the booze
& pills ---I did not lay all this on her at once BTW..

I thought she just needed to learn some basic coping skills-
like I did-skills my parents never really taught me...

NOw---I see that these suggesions and attepmts to help
push her further into behaviour.

So pachyderm...you are right to sya: "Dont Push"..
I caught this a bit late Im afraid...

M
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pachyderm said:
> i wonder how i could turn her towards getting help.

Unless you know for certain where it is, do not try. The greatest help for now (I think) is to listen, listen, listen. Do not try to make her do anything. Listen. And if you don't understand something, it is OK to ask a question -- if the question is really a question, if it is really meant to get information, to help you understand something.

Listen. Don't say you are listening; just do it. It may be OK to invite more talking from her if she stops; I don't know.

Listen.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

my experience with BPD is I wish I wasnt told I had this,I feel screwed up now.I hate the world !

mazer, I thought the same way when I first found out, and the symptoms seemed only to magnify / intensify a hundred-fold as I learned more about the illness.

Although I could accept this diagnosis, because it fit so perfectly, I have had a real hard time with coping and learning how to cope (through Dialectic Behavioural Therapy). It has been about 5 years since I was given this dx, and I am still struggling to cope.

I don't know why, but somewhere inside me, I am glad I know. Did it make life any easier? Not really.

Feelin' your pain, if it's any consolation...

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AlteredState01 said:
mazer, I thought the same way when I first found out, and the symptoms seemed only to magnify / intensify a hundred-fold as I learned more about the illness.

Although I could accept this diagnosis, because it fit so perfectly, I have had a real hard time with coping and learning how to cope (through Dialectic Behavioural Therapy). It has been about 5 years since I was given this dx, and I am still struggling to cope.

I don't know why, but somewhere inside me, I am glad I know. Did it make life any easier? Not really.

Feelin' your pain, if it's any consolation...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

awwww thanks !

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mazer said:
my experience with BPD is I wish I wasnt told I had this,I feel screwed up now.I hate the world !

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

A diagnosis may be just a label. It is not you.

I know personally that I have a defence mechanism which involves pushing people away as much as I can, but secretly hoping they will care and understand enough to stay in my life. It's almost as though I know I'm a crap friend and I can't believe someone would even consider being my friend....but another part of me knows that I have alot to give to another person and I want people to recognise that.....but they have to work at it to make me feel they really mean it.
That's just a part of how my life has been living with BPD, I hope it helps xx