[geez]

Anyone with this diagnosis?

My T said it outloud today. Before she just referred to my experiences as Trauma but in an appointment today with my husband she explained that I have C-PTSD. I know what it means but to hear that 'label' kind of shocks me but yet feels validating at the same time.

Anyone know what I mean?

Originally Posted by geez

Anyone with this diagnosis?

My T said it outloud today. Before she just referred to my experiences as Trauma but in an appointment today with my husband she explained that I have C-PTSD. I know what it means but to hear that 'label' kind of shocks me but yet feels validating at the same time.

Anyone know what I mean?

Hi ((((Geez)))) absolutely yes.

I was spinning my wheels in therapy for ages. It just felt like I was telling the multiple short stories of my life, over and over again ... but I never FELT better)

I found a new T and within a few sessions, she threw it out there, and it was if a light bulb went off over my head & a weight was lifted off my shoulders. I felt sooo relieved. I felt like I could breathe again.

With the proper Dx, I was able to dive right in and work on feeling better. Things are much better now, on a deeper level. We are working on foundation work

Best wishes to you! You are not alone.
Rose

[geez]

Rose thank you for the reply. I spent 3 1/2 years with my first T and while she helped me so much in so many ways she didn't 'get it' and the reason being is she's someone who doesn't specialize in trauma.

This new T is amazing and really knows her stuff. It's hard work but I feel like when I go to see her I'm going to learn something about myself on a deeper level to really make changes.

I also learned today that it could take 7 - 14 yrs of therapy to process all of this (not that she thinks it will take me 7 necessarily)..... and the 3 years I've already spent does count towards that

It feels good to know I'm not alone.

PS - what is 'foundation work'

[Open Eyes]

(((Geez))),

I have not been formally told c-ptsd but my PTSD does reach back to my childhood.
I don't think it has been accepted to be put in the manual for an official diagnosis. But some Ts do use that term and you can look it up on line and you will get information on it.

I would not really say "years" of therapy, it all depends on the individual and how much they work at the therapy. Some people, yes, they do spend years. There are stages to this trama work and each person is different in how they progress through the stages. The last stage, 're integration" is the stage that can take the longest depending on the person.

The important thing is that with PTSD, the person has to keep seeking support to keep using the new tools they learn while in therapy. From what I understand it does require maintenance work to stay in a better more healthy state of functioning. But each person is different. So you may not need that many years of therapy.

The foundation work is about how your foundation has been formed from early childhood. We all adapt to disfuction and because we are only children when we do that we develope skills that are not helpful as adults and can keep us from enjoying our lives to the best of our ability.

I know for myself I react to certain things that I am not even aware of. I self protected in ways I was not aware where these self protection methods came from.

For me, here is an example. I am very uncomfortable about entertaining and having people to my home, and I don't really know why. But since I have revisited my childhood it was because when my sister and I played dolls and pretend entertained SHE always had to have THE BEST and I was taught I DIDN'T DO SO WELL AT THAT.
I was four years younger than her, and I didn't have the time to have skills like her and by the time I COULD learn the skills it was engrained in me that I would not be that good at it.

And my mother always fretted about the house and having to have it be clean when people came over. And when her mother came to visit she would always be so stressed to make the house emaculate.

For many years I had to have my home emaculate and ofcourse I could not keep up with that, no one can, especially with children. But I would get very upset and stessed about people coming over and my house was VERY neat and clean.

And for Christmas? Oh I always had to decorate to the nines at Christmas, I mean my house looked like a country living home for the holidays house. I spent so much effort to make it look Christmas beautiful in a very traditional country way. It was demanding and often it took me forever to take it all down. And I could never just do with putting a simple wreath on the door. I just didn't know what that meant. Until I really revisited my childhood and realized that Christmas was the one time we KNEW WE COULD BE HAPPY. For years I made wreaths for every window, candles in every window, greens in the window boxes, on the fences with home made wreaths too. And many times I didn't have enough money to buy a real Christmas tree so I would find a way to actually MAKE ONE out of pine boughs.

And entertaining at Christmas for me was mostly my husband's family because my sister HAD TO HAVE MY FAMILY AT HER HOUSE and no matter how much I tried to share in that holiday, she always had a reason why it had to be at HER house. And that went all the way back to when I was little. But that was not enough for her, she had to joke at the holiday table about me not being able to do the holidays and that I didn't cook like her. I did cook but it was clear that it would never match up to HER.
Even when I gave in, I still got belittled somehow. The game with her was always to let HER have the control and adore her all the way.

And when I had my inlaws to my home for the holidays, I stressed the whole time, even the morning of, I was cleaning and worried about stupid dust and shine. A T might have said I was OCD. But I wasn't and I didn't know why I stressed so much until I relived my childhood and saw why.

Now my house is a mess, I cant be like I used to because now I know why I was the way I was. And I have not found a happy medium, and my family doesn't get it. I actually used to love to clean, but now I get triggered and upset. Like I said, I have not found a happy medium yet. And I don't have people over either.

And Christmas? I am very lost about Christmas now. And I can't even go near my sister at Christmas and she still insists on having everything at her house in a grandious way. And because I don't go she says I am terrible and want all the attention, which is so far from the truth. I cannot even be around her. And the last time I saw her in the hospital when my father got so ill, I saw it all, things I didn't notice about her. She wanted to stand and be all about drama and her body language spoke a thousand words about how much she needed to be in control of that situation.

I actually did really well in the hospital when I visited my father, but I also became familiar of how I act around her. It was like seeing the reality of it for the first time actually. I was glad I didn't fall apart. But that was to come two days later in the worst flashback yet, and it is very painful and I don't know what is happening, but I sense I am a very small child and my sister is there but that is all I know other than I am crying very hard. And I cry and cannot stop crying and I am that child and I am confused for several days.

I adapted to disfunction in ways I never realized and was a part of my foundation that I never realized.

So that is just some things I learned about myself that I didn't realize formed in my childhood. When we see all these things, we first recognize them and then we work on what "we" want for "ourselves" and not what we think "others" want from us.

Open Eyes

Hi, Geez. I am a C-PTSD sufferer. My T actually refused to give me the diagnosis. Finally, I researched it myself and asked and he confirmed that I was correct. I am still dealing with it. I don't know how I will get it to go away. I wish you the best.

[SeekingZen]

Hi Geez,
I have not been formally told that I have C-PTSD; my Pdoc mentioned that I have PTSD. This didn't seem to fit for me, so I did some reading and realized that it is likely C-PTSD, as most of my trauma comes from childhood.

I understand what you mean, when I was told I had GAD I felt relieved to have a name to give the suffering I have experienced. Yet, at the same time I was also shocked and frustrated, because there wasn't an easy solution out of it.

Stay positive! I wish you the best!

[peaches100]

I have C-PTSD, as well as GAD. It's interesting that I don't have many traumas you would consider major. But many, many small traumas built up over the years that damaged my sense of self. The most damaging was repeated verbal abuse and emotional neglect. This has hurt me more than the SA i experienced.

[geez]

Originally Posted by peaches100

I have C-PTSD, as well as GAD. It's interesting that I don't have many traumas you would consider major. But many, many small traumas built up over the years that damaged my sense of self. The most damaging was repeated verbal abuse and emotional neglect. This has hurt me more than the SA i experienced.

My T explained that C-PTSD is based on repeated small traumas built over time (much like I experienced with my parents which has effected me more than the CSA from a neighbor - IMO). Much like what you posted

My T also explained that PTSD is caused by a specific event: plan crash, death of child etc...

C-PTSD is caused by repeated small traumas over an extended period of time.

My T also gave me a book to read along with my husband to read all about PTSD, trauma etc... When I can remember the title I'll post it. Just started reading it and it's very informative.

Nice to know I'm not the only one. We can all lean on eachother

PS - There's a part of me that feels like this label shouldn't belong to me. But it does. It's disturbing and comforting at the same time?

[splitimage]

Yeah, I've been dx'd with CPTSD. For me it was a relief to get a label and have something specific to work with. Now after years in therapy, I'm largely asymptomatic with the exception of things around the SA.

At first I didn't really feel comfortable with the label, because to me it didn't seem like my childhood was THAT Bad. I just thought that everyone went through x,y,z. It was only seeing the reaction of people when I'd tell select stories of my childhood and that they clearly considered them awful, that I began to realize that in fact I didn't have a normal childhood at all, whatever normal means.

Today I'm comfortable with the label, it's just one more thing for me to work on.

splitimage

[vrba44070]

I recommend reading Bessel Van der Kolk. He specializes in complex PTSD. One of the things he says is that childhood trauma often leads to revictimization later in life. That's certainly the case w/ me.

I must admit, I loved (it fit just right, like the 3 bears ) the label, because not only did it fit, I felt validated!! For once!

Knowing what was going on negated all the times my family neglected me by not providing emotional & intellectual support. They de-valued virtually every single thing that was important to me. They told me I would be a complete failure in life (if I didn't do what they wanted), and ganged up on me.

I felt empowered with my Dx.

One of my family members even tried to throw it in my face (I trusted that person and shouldn't have), and I replied, "Thank you. Thank you for finally showing your true colors. Finally. no more backstabbing". And I walked away.

I guess what I am trying to say is: although it's hard, and I suffer at times and have to work really, really hard to overcome a lot (lots of small and big traumas), have setbacks and feel really sad, it was empowering to me. No one can hurt me ever again. Not like they did.

[geez]

Originally Posted by splitimage

At first I didn't really feel comfortable with the label, because to me it didn't seem like my childhood was THAT Bad. I just thought that everyone went through x,y,z. It was only seeing the reaction of people when I'd tell select stories of my childhood and that they clearly considered them awful, that I began to realize that in fact I didn't have a normal childhood at all, whatever normal means.

I completely get what you mean when you say the reactions you got from people when you told them.... things weren't 'that bad'. I too thought everyone experienced the 'same'. I feel like I'm now starting to figure out 'normal' and what that should look like for my kids.

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

(((Geez))),

I have not been formally told c-ptsd but my PTSD does reach back to my childhood.
I don't think it has been accepted to be put in the manual for an official diagnosis. But some Ts do use that term and you can look it up on line and you will get information on it.

I would not really say "years" of therapy, it all depends on the individual and how much they work at the therapy. Some people, yes, they do spend years. There are stages to this trama work and each person is different in how they progress through the stages. The last stage, 're integration" is the stage that can take the longest depending on the person.

The important thing is that with PTSD, the person has to keep seeking support to keep using the new tools they learn while in therapy. From what I understand it does require maintenance work to stay in a better more healthy state of functioning. But each person is different. So you may not need that many years of therapy.

The foundation work is about how your foundation has been formed from early childhood. We all adapt to disfuction and because we are only children when we do that we develope skills that are not helpful as adults and can keep us from enjoying our lives to the best of our ability.

I know for myself I react to certain things that I am not even aware of. I self protected in ways I was not aware where these self protection methods came from.

For me, here is an example. I am very uncomfortable about entertaining and having people to my home, and I don't really know why. But since I have revisited my childhood it was because when my sister and I played dolls and pretend entertained SHE always had to have THE BEST and I was taught I DIDN'T DO SO WELL AT THAT.
I was four years younger than her, and I didn't have the time to have skills like her and by the time I COULD learn the skills it was engrained in me that I would not be that good at it.

And my mother always fretted about the house and having to have it be clean when people came over. And when her mother came to visit she would always be so stressed to make the house emaculate.

For many years I had to have my home emaculate and ofcourse I could not keep up with that, no one can, especially with children. But I would get very upset and stessed about people coming over and my house was VERY neat and clean.

And for Christmas? Oh I always had to decorate to the nines at Christmas, I mean my house looked like a country living home for the holidays house. I spent so much effort to make it look Christmas beautiful in a very traditional country way. It was demanding and often it took me forever to take it all down. And I could never just do with putting a simple wreath on the door. I just didn't know what that meant. Until I really revisited my childhood and realized that Christmas was the one time we KNEW WE COULD BE HAPPY. For years I made wreaths for every window, candles in every window, greens in the window boxes, on the fences with home made wreaths too. And many times I didn't have enough money to buy a real Christmas tree so I would find a way to actually MAKE ONE out of pine boughs.

And entertaining at Christmas for me was mostly my husband's family because my sister HAD TO HAVE MY FAMILY AT HER HOUSE and no matter how much I tried to share in that holiday, she always had a reason why it had to be at HER house. And that went all the way back to when I was little. But that was not enough for her, she had to joke at the holiday table about me not being able to do the holidays and that I didn't cook like her. I did cook but it was clear that it would never match up to HER.
Even when I gave in, I still got belittled somehow. The game with her was always to let HER have the control and adore her all the way.

And when I had my inlaws to my home for the holidays, I stressed the whole time, even the morning of, I was cleaning and worried about stupid dust and shine. A T might have said I was OCD. But I wasn't and I didn't know why I stressed so much until I relived my childhood and saw why.

Now my house is a mess, I cant be like I used to because now I know why I was the way I was. And I have not found a happy medium, and my family doesn't get it. I actually used to love to clean, but now I get triggered and upset. Like I said, I have not found a happy medium yet. And I don't have people over either.

And Christmas? I am very lost about Christmas now. And I can't even go near my sister at Christmas and she still insists on having everything at her house in a grandious way. And because I don't go she says I am terrible and want all the attention, which is so far from the truth. I cannot even be around her. And the last time I saw her in the hospital when my father got so ill, I saw it all, things I didn't notice about her. She wanted to stand and be all about drama and her body language spoke a thousand words about how much she needed to be in control of that situation.

I actually did really well in the hospital when I visited my father, but I also became familiar of how I act around her. It was like seeing the reality of it for the first time actually. I was glad I didn't fall apart. But that was to come two days later in the worst flashback yet, and it is very painful and I don't know what is happening, but I sense I am a very small child and my sister is there but that is all I know other than I am crying very hard. And I cry and cannot stop crying and I am that child and I am confused for several days.

I adapted to disfunction in ways I never realized and was a part of my foundation that I never realized.

So that is just some things I learned about myself that I didn't realize formed in my childhood. When we see all these things, we first recognize them and then we work on what "we" want for "ourselves" and not what we think "others" want from us.

Open Eyes

Wow...Does this ever resonate with me. Look up the ramifications of 'sibling bullying' and you will probably see yourself. I did. And the scary thing is...I married a bully. And I had nightmares about my sister and husband...and then they somehow turned into the same person in my nightmare. Now in therapy, I finally understand why. And now I keep my distance from both of them. Trying to surround myself with nicer people who don't treat every interaction as a WIN or LOSE proposition. Politeness, respect, empathy, kindness, integrity, equality, patience, understanding, sensitivity, generosity all rank very high in my world now - the opposite of people I grew up with.

[geez]

Originally Posted by athena2011

Trying to surround myself with nicer people who don't treat every interaction as a WIN or LOSE proposition. Politeness, respect, empathy, kindness, integrity, equality, patience, understanding, sensitivity, generosity all rank very high in my world now - the opposite of people I grew up with.

people who treat every interaction as a WIN or LOSE proposition

Wow that really hit me between the eyes! Thank you but ouch! That sums up so many relationships I've had or have!!!!

WOW!

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by geez

people who treat every interaction as a WIN or LOSE proposition

Wow that really hit me between the eyes! Thank you but ouch! That sums up so many relationships I've had or have!!!!

WOW!

Yes, but this is very human too. And not only that but it is built into cartoons, movies, advertising, literature, politics etc. And we start absorbing this message when the TV goes on when we are very small and we watch cartoons that have a message revolving around win or lose. Think about fairytails that are read to us when we are small, there is always that underlying message about the potential of losing or getting hurt and needing to win and just know to run, hide, and be smart.

Healthy human relationships is hard to come by. And when we work through our past and how this win and lose took place in our childhood atmosphere, we have to learn how to understand that it is not just "us" that struggles with this.

When we open up our past and how it effected our own pshychie to a point where we struggle with cPTSD, we begin to see many people as bad monsters. And there can be many times where we can get triggered because some kind of interaction we experience or read about can remind us of a time when we truely struggled and had no real "rescuer" or "validation". It really takes time to be able to look back and get to a point where we actually learn how to better understand human nature and learn about the ways that it has effected us.

The constant important thing to understand about dealing with a troubled childhood is to make sure that you understand that the child that you were did not have the life skills that you have now. So "guilt" should not be something you constantly focus on.

The goal in therapy and working through PTSD is to work on developing the skills to not only just see "the win or lose" built into humanity. It is to learn how to be able to accept that it is there and how we can develope skills to not constantly be triggered by that emotionally. To learn how to move forward in a much more postive way inspite of the reality of being human.

Open Eyes

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

The goal in therapy and working through PTSD is to work on developing the skills to not only just see "the win or lose" built into humanity. It is to learn how to be able to accept that it is there and how we can develope skills to not constantly be triggered by that emotionally. To learn how to move forward in a much more postive way inspite of the reality of being human.

Yes...accepting...something I need to work on. After all, if Darwin's 'Survival of the fittest' concept wasn't in play, we probably wouldn't even be here. However, just as I may be very 'live and let live', I realize the opposite extreme is the 'win at all costs' mentality. This is the one I have trouble with. Just as they say being 'passive' is not healthy, being 'aggressive' also is not healthy for anybody interacting with that person. I aim to be simply 'assertive' - not walking over others and not getting walked all over either. How to accept aggressors? I think I need to not allow myself to get sucked into playing by their rules. I am not triggered by locking my front door. It's just an intelligent way to deal with aggressors. I do however get triggered by people who always have to get their way. When they don't get it, they get angry and abusive. I let them suck me in. And they have the ability to let a fight go on forever. They eventually just wear me down and get everything they want, usually at my expense. I thought that was acceptance. It isn't. It's giving in. The rage lives on...I've got to learn to just get up and walk away. The emotional equivalent of 'locking the front door' I suppose...worth a try anyway.

[zzzcat]

Excuse the long reply--this is my first time on here.

I know what you mean to have it. My psychiatrist refers to what I suffer from as trauma, PTSD, and panic disorder. The big shock was when someone finally named what was for me the most disturbing symptom and that is dissociation. I've tried to explain it to more than one therapist or doctor and only after seeing my current doctor for a couple years did he say "that is dissociation." I gather many of them haven't experienced this so they don't really know what the patient is describing, especially if the experience is brief.

It only happens to me when I get extremely depressed, or terrified, and I describe it as my mind shutting down. It hasn't happened in a few years. I think I'm on the mend. Studying what makes one happy reading the book FLOW helped me get past recent difficulties. I began doing more of the things that bring me joy.

If you had a bad childhood with a history of abuse and you've suffered symptoms of PTSD on and off over many years and are triggered by new traumas that means C-PTSD, according to the books. I try not to dwell on the thought of having C-PTSD, just trauma like the doctor says. As you probably know it's not something you want to tell folks unless they are very close friends. I mean I don't talk about PTSD with anyone besides my doctor and the odd support group--it scares people. I believe I might have been ok if I hadn't been re-traumatized as an adult. Living in a city with a high crime rate didn't help.

I told my doctor about a neighbor who survived the holocaust, her story is remarkable, she was reunited with her American husband after seven years of war. I told him that this neighbor was assaulted by a thief who entered her home, though she was just shaken, she had an emergency button device that alerted a neighbor across the street, set off an alarm and scared the thief away. He was rough and shoved her in the bathroom but didn't physically harm her in any other way. That night I sat with her and the detectives at our neighbor's house and the next morning she didn't know who I was. This lasted for two weeks, it was a horrible feeling, I kept reminding her that I was her neighbor. I think I cried and wondered if she'd get her memory back. My psychiatrist said "she was back in Czechoslovakia, the trauma triggered past trauma from WWII and she dissociated." Wow--the power of the human mind! I should feel lucky that I haven't lost touch for two weeks (just brief moments) and that I haven't had to live through anything as bad as WWII. I get choked up thinking about her, but this is all due to trauma.

[Open Eyes]

(((zzzcat))),
Welcome to PC and the PTSD forum. Thank you for sharing your story too. It sounds like you have a really good therapist to work with.

My T told me that everyone dissociates, it is normal. But with people who have faced a trama, they dissociate more and sometimes for a longer period of time. Last year I did it a lot and I would panic because I would lose track of time. I am doing better this year.

We hope to hear more from you in this forum.

((Hugs))
Open Eyes

[suzzie]

((((((geez))))))

i wasnt diagnosed with c-ptsd. but my first t told me i have multiple severe traumas. and severe csa trauma. all were on going for a long time. and all happened at the same time. would that be along the lines of what c-ptsd would be. or maybe something else.

[geez]

(((athena))) (((open))) (((suzzie))) welcome zzzcat!

__________________ Trigger _________________________________





Sadly I see myself in 'win lose' relationships and because I'm passive that pretty much puts me in the 'lose' position to a point (i'm getting better as 'walking away'). My mother, brother have always put me in the lose position. I have always been the 'loser' never the winner. I was the emotional whipping post when it wasn't physical.

Today I limit my interactions with my family but they still posture the 'win lose' relationship. I just ignore it for the most part.

I have noticed as of most recent a 'close' friend that I have. This is a 'win lose' friendship in some ways and yet can be supportive in other ways. I look up to her for her strength and conviction and I have a hard time not 'going with the flow when I disagree'. I feel like she's a bit of a bully at times trying to get me to do things I really don't want to do. I tell her I'm not interested in something and she pushes further to try and make her point. She says I'm her best friend. I've always wanted a sister or a woman that I've felt close to. Perhaps people see that in me and take advantage of a 'loser'. I find this eye opening and very sad at the same time. I've noticed that I seem to be attracted to people like this even though it hurts me.

Sadly my husband is at times very win/lose. He has no flexibility sometimes. It took me three years to get him into marriage therapy because for three years he knew we didn't need to go to marriage therapy.

Suzzie I found a link that I think helps describe Complex-PTSD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex...tress_disorder

What does a healthy friendship/relationship look like when it's not win/lose???? Sorry for the long post and thank you all so much for posting.

[Open Eyes]

"Sorry for the long post and thank you all so much for posting." quote geez

geez, I picked this out because I notice some members do this and it is important to be able to look at this and think about what it means to us personally.

This is your thread, it is ok to talk about "what you are learning" and how "you can identify with whatever symptoms are connected to cPTSD. And your post was not long, it was informative and admitting what you do see in yourself that you may not have recognized on this level before.

At one time you talked about how you began to see a pathway to a "new healthier you" and you were worried if your relationships with others would allow for and thrive when you really work on, "being heard", "wanting things for yourself and partaking in what "you" want to do in life".

Up until this point you "got along" with others by just "giving in and of yourself" and when you did that you found ways to surpress yourself and your own needs to a point that at times, you developed a "non feeling" for your own emotions and sense of allowing yourself to actually "develope yourself".

When the therapist talked about patients with cPTSD needing "years" of therapy, part of that is devoted to "learning" how to truely grow past the ways you surpress yourself and take on "whole heartedly and consciously" inner permission to enjoy your "own" life and desires.

I pointed this one sentence out because it is this sentence that you have to learn how to "not say", "feel a need to say", leave out and yet "feel it inside". What you need to pay attention to in your healing is "when this type of feeling takes place in you" a feeling like you are doing something wrong by "expressing yourself" somehow.

You have to practice allowing yourself to express "yourself" and "your feelings" to a point where you are ok with it and are not just forcing yourself to do it, but you actually feel ok about adding "you" and "your needs and opinions" into an interaction or relationship with others.

You have to learn to see the "submissive" patterns of behavior in yourself and practice on a real conscious level how to finally "feel okay" with changing that.

And you need to know geez, that many people struggle with this "win" and "lose" kind of psychie. Up until this point in your life the quickest way for you to avoid the constant battle that many people "need" to experience in "their" need to "win"has just been to give in so that there is a sense of calm and safety.

This is what many children learn when they grow up in a disfunctional environment. And a child can develope ways to "shut out their own needs and emotions" just to be able to co-exist in different environments, even in schools or places where they can experience "bullying" from other human beings.

This one sentence geez, says a lot. And by paying attention to these details that represent "you" and "how you dismiss your needs" and getting yourself to a point where you truely do not feel that way. That is what your recovery is all about.

It is important to understand geez that "everyone" has a certain amount of disfunction to them because of this "need to win" that is engrained in them from early childhood. You DID recognize that from an early point in your life and your answer was to just "give in" and "be passive". We live in a world of people that are passive/agressive and do not know how to be assertive and be able to walk away or engage in interactions with others where they can be assertive and "know psychologically and emotionally, that they have the right to do so. So yes, the test will always come up and present itself when we interact with others. So what that means is that when we learn to "express ourselves and our needs" we will be challenged and deal with the emotions from our past that were acustomed to "denying one's self". Understanding that many people can only interact by expressing passive to a certain extent and then becoming agressive and never understand how to just be assertive and be ok with that emotionally is important. If you find your way to learn how "not to allow that to effect YOU emotionally, then you truely do gain "inner peace".

Yes, it can take a long time to sort this out emotionally when we grow up in a disfunctional environment.

Open Eyes

[geez]

You sound like my T Thank you

Another thing I've learned in therapy is that we are attracted to relationships that cause us to 'relive' relationship patterns in a way to figure out how to fix things.

Out of curiosity what motivates a person to be a 'winner'?

PS: My T gave me this book to borrow. It's reading for my husband and I. Not everything pertains to me in the book but it's eye opening none the less.

The Post Traumatic Stress Disorder Sourcebook: A Guide to Healing, Recovery, and Growth by Glenn Shiraldi

http://www.amazon.com/Post-Traumatic...&keywords=PTSD

[zzzcat]

What does a healthy friendship/relationship look like when it's not win/lose???? Sorry for the long post and thank you all so much for posting. [/quote]


Geez:
Once you lose that feeling of dependence on people that remind you of your mother (or whomever belittled you, abused you) things will improve for you, but for me that took many years. If a friend has a mean streak and takes it out on you (I call them frenemies), then you are better off without them. There are predators that sense that you are vulnerable. You're better off with no friends than with someone who makes you feel low, especially when you're trying to cope with PTSD. I finally found my voice (though it needs work), I cut off a frenemy who would drink and then insult me. I stopped phoning my mother, realized it's a toxic relationship and the cruel patterns would always repeat themselves. I was told to cut off my family completely, but I have a strong relationship with my father so I put up with my mother. My brother is an alcoholic, he has ruined his home life; we don't speak. He told me a few years ago that he started drinking at 14, before school. He fooled the rest of us--my parents are still in denial. He appears to be bi-polar with rather extreme manic episodes, like my grandmother, and he refuses to get help. He is middle aged so I don't have much hope for him, he doesn't contact anyone, though he used to if he needed something. The cycle of abuse and mental illness just continues--I am the only one in my family that sought help, and things have improved, though I've had setbacks. Years ago I was oblivious of the damage that was done and that my childhood was anything but normal.

It takes time. I guess I finally found the courage to speak up for myself when put in a difficult position--so no more passivity or freezing (for now). If you are depressed or in a depression then you really need to avoid toxic people, those were often the times when I would dissociate. You'll start feeling like a "winner" though I would say strong, and consider yourself a survivor rather than a victim. You might need to detach from your husband if he eggs you on and you need peace for your own sanity, that's what I do. Don't engage in arguments, go read or do something on your own that will put you in a better place. One problem that I still need to overcome is how to tone it down now that I've found my voice. Being hypervigilant means I wind up in confrontations that I wish I'd walked away from.

Geez, if your friend is pushing you to be social and you don't want to be, then I would explain that you're not ready, if you trust her then describe to her what's going on in your mind. I've had to push myself to go places. I usually don't want to attend parties, I then force myself to go and wind up having a great time. Each positive experience builds strength.

Thanks for the welcome Geez and Open Eyes.

Yes, you're right about dissociation (open eyes) I guess everyone experiences it, though I am not referring to happy daydreams or flow, but a terrifying state in which I have no control and trouble functioning. I have driven in the wrong direction, totally lost track of time, then snapped out of it and was able to get to my doctor or find my way. In my case it was depression brought on by trauma and dealing with toxic people. This is the forum where I'll find those who can relate--so thank you.

Thanks for the welcome!

zzzcat

[geez]

Originally Posted by zzzcat

Geez:
Once you lose that feeling of dependence on people that remind you of your mother (or whomever belittled you, abused you) things will improve for you, but for me that took many years. If a friend has a mean streak and takes it out on you (I call them frenemies), then you are better off without them.

zzzcat thank you for sharing. It's funny that I have shed these relationships when I had another person 'to go to'. Someone waiting in the wings that allowed me to move on. I guess some relationship is better than no relationship?-that's something that just came to mind.

My current and only close friend I'm now feeling like I need to distance myself because there are elements of her personality that are 'winner/loser'. In some ways I'm attracted to that because I too want to be 'strong' in my decisions and have a strong back bone. She has been very supportive and yet there are times where I see the winner/loser dynamic pop up. Ironicaly she's in therapy too and we go to the same T .

I understand all of what you wrote but my fear is in being alone. This is so scary. I 'get it' and I'm so scared of where to go from here.

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by geez

...my fear is in being alone. This is so scary. I 'get it' and I'm so scared of where to go from here.

This is a big problem for me too. I think today's society makes it harder too. People are so programmed or have so much going on in their lives. I have tried to connect lately with individuals that I feel I have a rapport with. In the last month, I've not been able to get together with them because 1) one just split up with her husband and has thrown herself into her work, 2) one is constantly depressed and is self-isolating, 3) one can't plan outings because she has an ex who is ignoring child custody arrangements and takes the kids whenever he wants and 4) one has something on every single night.

No wonder social networking has taken off.

Anyway, I suppose there are a few additional challenges for us: We blame ourselves for being alone (low self-worth). We hate being alone (reminds us of our low self worth). We don't put in as much effort as we should in connecting with others because we think we are being purposely ignored/abandoned by others because we think there's something wrong with us. We just don't have the energy to nurture relationships because we anticipate so many problems before we even start and it wipes out all motivation.

What I am starting to do now though is to stop blaming myself. I'm starting to look at the external factors, reasons why I have trouble getting together with others besides 'nobody likes me'. It helps. I'm still lonely but at least I'm not feeling quite so low. And I have got together with people more often lately. It may not be as much as I like but it's more than it used to be. They may not be my best friends yet, but that takes time. Gotta start somewhere.