Paranoia - Hypervigilance

What is the difference? It feels like the same thing to me, constantly looking over my shoulder, scanning my environment for non-existent threats. Some little punk set me off earlier, little scrawny **** smoking a cigarette. I'm in better shape than he is and would've probably just went and blasted him since he had his window rolled down but he was in the car with 3 other dudes trying to act hard. He was looking at me with a dirty look, muttering something that I am sure was derogatory that I could not hear. This infuriated me to the point where I chased his vehicle down and started yelling at him. Eventually I gave up because they turned down a main road, I was still angry when I saw out of the corner of my eyes the punk *** driver giving me the middle finger. I went down a side street and waited for them in the alley. I had found some rocks and bricks on the ground and was planning on using them in a malicious way against them if they showed up to fight in the alley.

They never showed up, but this totally ruined my day and triggered a lot of self-destructive behavior, I canceled an important appointment. I went back to my house and grabbed some weapons, was roaming the streets seeing if I could find them again, I still remember the car with my photographic memory and the look on that little ****ers face. If I see them again its going down I hate this suburban ****, in the city you only get messed with if you are messing with somebody's money. So due to my paranoia I've been shooting myself in the foot and defeating myself, I canceled an important appointment even though going would've benefited my life. I went to the park and sat there watching the cars go by, basically I was brooding, still "hyper-vigilant" I did this for about a half an hour. Then I wanted to get some alcohol, I killed off the urge the first time, talked to a friend about it. Read the VA website about alcohol abuse and PTSD. Still didn't stop my urge to go to the liquor store and buy myself a 40, now I'm drunk but I'm not angry anymore but my stomach hurts. Now I'm just trying to avoid the compulsion to go buy more, since 1 is too many and 1000 is never enough. I feel fine off just 1 since I haven't drank in so long, but 1 more would be dangerous.

This sounds more like rage to me. I get that too specially driving! I have chased down people and have been chased. Usually it's just a game for me, the adrenaline flowing, excitement, the risk factor is all exciting for me. Some people play along and that is cool. But some times I run in to people like your punk friend and it turns ugly fast like your incident did. I think what ticked you off the most was his smart @ss look and way he acted. I don't really see paranoia here as the main driver. Anger certainly was tho. And look, don't get me wrong, I been there and done that too.

The looking over your shoulder that part was paranoia. The rest is just rage and or anger I think. May have some thing to do with your pdsd. My road rage is because I get off that way in a big way.

Paranoia is an irrational false belief that you will be harmed by something that can not happen. "The CIA is trailing me and trying to frame me as an Al Quaeda agent". Paranoia sort of overlaps with psychosis - You can be paranoid about a delusion "Martians are trying to frame me as a spy". I guess I got that right.

Hypervigilance can have elements of paranoia, well, the flavor of paranoia. But it is a fear of something which is possible, although unlikely. Someone who was attacked by a pack of pit bulls that got loose is unlikely to be attacked again in the same way, but still is very fearful and constantly on the lookout for dogs."

Not really a good idea to walk around with weapons. I did, once, albeit in the middle if the night and in a pack until I intend to use it on myself. But, I could have been arrested and charged with a felony or even been shot by a cop under the most extreme scenario.

I agree. I'm not super paranoid, I used to be very paranoid. I was so paranoid before I started therapy that I had trapped myself into my little comfort zone. Which was in my room, I didn't even want to go to the store out of fear somebody would try to shoot me. I used to believe my phones were tapped since they were before, I used to feel like my house could've got the door kicked in at any moment, since that also happened before by the feds. I still have what would be considered by some "delusional beliefs" but I think its because I know more about how the world works. Yes the adrenalin once it takes over I lose my rationality and only want to attack. I think looking over my shoulder was paranoid to, but it was mostly to check for threats that were not there, it wasn't as bad as my paranoia has gotten historically.

I still remember with photographic precision what his car looks like and the last guy that messed with me on the streets, I haven't seen any of them around since and I haven't been avoiding those routes. I almost got into a fight the other day, I gave this dude the middle finger in front of his girl, he pulls up on me and I started laughing at him and pointing my finger. There was no confrontation because he must've thought I was crazy since I was not intimidated. I have a feeling most people around this neighborhood are scared of the "thug" type. I used to be in a gang and have fought many of these type of guys, their strength is mostly psychological, they have no fear, but they still cry once you make them bleed.

I get road rage to, its really hard for me to keep calm while driving, I won't drive unless it is close enough to walk/bike because driving is frustrating to me. I have points on my license for something I didn't do but never got caught speeding because I'm smart about it. Usually people who drive like **** give me road rage worse than people who drive like grannies, although both are annoying depending on the circumstances. That's one thing I don't miss about the city, people would always drive like **** everywhere you went.
I thought the CIA was spying on me and was afraid of pretty much everything because I thought it was part of a conspiracy to take me back to jail. I've also felt like I was constantly being watched and followed before, for months. But now the paranoid comes in waves. I used to think that exact same thought "The CIA is trailing me and trying to frame me as an Al Quaeda agent" that's why I deleted all my gmail and google related accounts. Now I only use google through a proxy because Google is nothing more than an NSA spying front. Google is the NSA is disguise, this is not even a delusion but a rational belief based on evidence .

I agree with you about the weapons, I try to hide them from myself, but I don't feel safe without them. Especially not with people like that in the streets, that will just start **** and discriminate for no good reason. Most of the people I've seen around here are friendly and courteous, but since school started back up there have been a lot of little ****'s that remind me of being bullied my school days. Its like I want to punish them for what my bullies did in my school days. All my friends were always crazy as long as I remember, I couldn't hang out with anybody who didn't have some screws loose, my best friends in public school were schizophrenic or ADHD.

One of my friends who died a few years ago got arrested for walking around on 8 mile with a ninja sword he was wasted. I already have felonies, you don't want felonies, they don't look good on your resume

The CIA and NSA is enough to get anyone paranoid and for good reason too!

I would also lose my Bar Assoc. memberships and my career would be toast. It was an incredibly stupid thing to do. Not exactly in your right mind when you sit out on a pier at 5 am on a Sunday morning trying to psych yourself up to blow you head off.

This is true in this day and age. Its public knowledge that they are watching us, they want us to feel like we are under surveillance. Because psychologically it makes people behave more honestly. When nobody else is looking people's "true self" tends to come out more often. If you constantly feel like you are being watched, you will constantly behave like a good slave and obey the system.
I put the barrel to my head a few times in the past, never pulled the trigger because I was afraid of waking up in the hospital to people asking me how many fingers they were holding up. When I tried suicide I was on an SSRI called Paxil, and it was by hanging which my most serious attempt was made. It didn't work, I was crying too hard to see how long the cord should've been. Its not easy to actually go through with these type of plans, the best option IMO is to just check yourself in to the loony bin when you start feeling like that. Not trying to be that guy, but hey at least you have a career. I don't have **** going for me.

I think another difference between hypervigilance and paranoia is that you are allllways conscious of it with paranoia - you're consciously aware of being worried that X is going to happen. I think hypervigilance can be a lot more subtle and something that isn't being done consciously - you just become innately more aware of surroundings and will pick up on tiny changes without always even knowing what it is.

Like... paranoia is walking down the street and being super worried that someone is going to jump out at you, so you're constantly looking over your shoulder and scared and looking around corners before going. Hyperviligance would be like walking down the street and feeling ok... and then you notice a movement out of the corner of your eye and freak right out - to discover it was a leaf blowing across the street.

As somebody who has experienced both symptoms I agree with this 100 - % hyper-vigilance is how I feel most of the time, paranoid is how I get under stress. Thank you for your contributions. I think paranoia is similar to anxiety, but a lot more intense. I can go from 0 to paranoid depending on my stress levels.

I'm sorry, I wish I could offer you more than that.

I never want to be in that position again either. It's awful to feel like life is one big smack down with no rules.

Startle response. Mine is tremendous at times. It doesn't take much under many circumstances. Someone coming up from behind and surprising me is going to get to hear me scream and maybe say a few choice words. My heart rate goes through the roof.

I am so jumpy at times that my colleagues are often having to tell me 'its ok Jane its just the wind, or just a truck going by' etc. I have always startled easily, and scream like the girl I am. I remember being in the cinema one time watching a horror(of all the silly things to do) and got such a fright that i screamed and threw my popcorn all over the people all around me. very embarrasing although my friend laughed I was petrified and spent the rest of the film with my head buried in my coat.

And I am constantly hypervigilant....noticing what i think is somethig moving out the corner of my eye to find it is nothing at all. But my heart pounds for a while because it doesn't know that.

Hypervigilance isn't just the startle response though (I've got a huge startle response too - I jump at my own hair touching my arm and my own shadow!)

It's also when you don't really pay attention to it, but as SOON as someone else's facial or body expressions changes... you jump immediately into high alert. Or where you notice the really subtle changes over time of how someone acts/talks around you. At first you don't know that you're noticing them, but after noticing how you've reacted you can usually figured out what caused the reaction.

Many times I find mine is (not on purpose) exaggerated and this is usually when little noises in the background are pissing me off. When I dissociate (numbness) I don't startle at all and I'm fearless. I don't even feel like anything is real when I'm in a state of numbness, I feel like everything is just a dream and I'm going to wake up in my bed with a hard-on the next day. Its because I've had dreams about having dreams, and have to do some reality testing to see if it is true or dream. Which isn't always accurate because I've felt pain in my dreams before.

My heart rate gets so bad during stress its considered hypertension or "prehypertension" aka high blood pressure. That's probably why I wanted to drink so bad yesterday, I wanted to ease my tension, I sleep pretty good. Had some weird dream/nightmare hybrids.
Its all good Johnny sometimes it does feel like life is one big smack down, I can't escape the drama, it follows me.
It does get better, it used to feel like I was going to have a heart attack every time somebody would say hi to me. There have been times where my own shadow made me jump. I used to scream to, now I just jump. Definitely can't do scary movies anymore either, which is a shame because I used to love scary movies. I was an adrenalin junkie, now I can't stand the adrenalin and once it happens I just want to make it stop. Yes when I look back I've had PTSD for years it just got more severe over time as the trauma's piled up one after another until I was so tense I was feeling physical pains. I think seeing something out of the corner of your eye and then turning and seeing nothing is common when we are deprived of sleep. When you find a way to sleep better you will manage better, when we are sleep deprived the symptoms are exaggerated.

Sleep is the best way to reduce stress, it just sucks when you are so stressed in life even your dreams stress you out.
Good point, again thanks for your contributions to this thread. I am the same way in conversations, I pick up on non-verbal cues and get all sorts of defensive and spooked for what seems like (to other people) no reason. Body language, facial expression, tone of voice, how they use their hands, how they phrase their words all can put me on high alert. It makes interactions with people who don't know how you suffer miserable.

I'm fine with people when they are in a good mood. At the first sign of anger, it's jump in the foxhole time for me, I hate, hate, hate to witness fighting, verbal or otherwise, because it was every last frikin' day at my house growing up, tremendous yelling and screaming matches.

I agree, I'm not usually disturbed by fighting or bloodshed unless its my blood you know what I mean? I grew up on violence, violent family, violent school environment, violent streets, violent friends, violent music, violent TV shows, violent video games, violent movies and violent porn. I'm fairly desensitized to it, the thing I hate the most about scary movies is the suspense, the loud drums and sudden movements make me jump and trigger my fight or flight adrenal response.

I can't stand when people get angry at me, I have a low tolerance for negativity in person now to. Since I started therapy I've been learning how not to think so negatively and when I see the same kind of thinking in people it gets on my nerves. Last time I was with family and my uncle got angry talking about politics and the combination of his tone, content of his rant and the way he was thinking triggered me. I walked away with my ears covered and had a panic attack in in quiet. Then I exercised the anger off, let out some grief and private and had a headache for the rest of the day.

ditto.....

The kind of anger and frustration and acting out that you are discussing here is more "common" in men then women.

In order for you to "gain a handle" on this deep anger that puts you at "risk" of acting out "in destructive ways" is "you have get to the bottom of this anger and TALK AND TALK IT OUT WITH A PERSON ON THE OTHER END OF THIS DISCUSSION THAT CAN VALIDATE YOU IN A WAY WHERE YOU FINALLY FEEL YOUR DEEP FRUSTRATION IS "HEARD" AND "UNDERSTOOD".

You need to get to the point where you understand this on a "very different" level then you do now. For example, lets say you are trying to "fix" an engine that is broken and no matter what you do, the engine isn't working right. Well, often what most men will do is get so angry and frustrated they "destroy the engine". However, if someone else who knew how to actually "fix" what is wrong and stepped in and showed you and discussed how they too at one point was stumped, you would "learn" something and that "frustration and anger" would dissipate and you would gain a sense of "having more control".

You need to "understand how the human brain really works" instead of consistently making these decisions to "act out" and do things that are "non productive and are destructive".

For example; when you experienced that group of kids in their car that gave you a dirty look and threw you the finger, "you reacted" to a point where your desire was to be "destructive" towards them. You reacted so badly that you were driven to "pursue" them and "punish them" for how they reacted to you.

The reality of that situation is that these "punks" are not much different then you because they also have no real mentor to help them channel their energy towards "being productive" and "gaining on their sense of control". Therefore, the circuits are
reacting in the brain to go into "defensive" mode through a more "physical" means, where as that would not happen if "real problem solving and knowledge of "what this means" was actually in place in these male brains.

What you have "unknowingly" learned to do is react based on some very "primitive" instincts that human males were designed to have for "survival". It isn't just "you" that is challenged with this either. Human males are hardwired to "act" and control, and unfortunately "actually being able to "reason" instead is not so easy". This is why we have "never" been able to do away with "war".

Look at what is happening now with the conflict going on between the US and Syria.
We are dealing with a man "Assad" that tends to "act out and destroy innocent people" by using "poisonous gas". This is a leader who is really "acting out of fear and frustration" and he has very "poor" reasoning skills. He "hates" and "reacts" to the US just as you do with those "punks". You don't really "know" these "punks" or their background story either, you just see "red". You are operating in "defense" mode constantly and until you take the time to "dig into this problem" and understand it with "more reasoning skills" and I emphasize "skills" because "skills" are slowly learned, you will remain in "ready for confrontation mode".

You most likely get "mean" with alcohol because you "cannot relax and just let go", even though you would like to and often need to because "ready for confrontation mode is mentally and physically exhausting".

OE

Possible, I think in reality many women do not act physically violent or physically punish their victims. They abuse their victims psychologically, they still have anger problems. My mom is a clear cut example of this, she was the most angry person I know besides me, she psychologically abused me, emotionally neglected me and physically attacked me when she was drunk on several occasions. I've also had a couple of ex's that would like to get physical with me. Another reason why I've been single for so long, I'm afraid of being hurt again by the people I love because this triggers deep seated feelings of worthlessness and abandonment inside of me.
I don't feel like I will ever be heard, my core personality rarely comes out and is always hidden behind a layer of a polished "everything is okay" veneer. Primarily my baseline is depressed and depressing. Nobody wants to be around that, not even me. I think I handled the situation as best as I could. I could've acted out in more destructive ways, I had the impulse to throw the bricks and rocks at random people's cars driving down the street but controlled myself and did not act out.
That sounds like me and my life right now, trying to fix it and no matter what I do it isn't working right. I'm too self-destructive, deep down in side most of my hatred is directed at myself since I grew up angry and hateful. Now the objects of my hatred (parents) are gone out of my life the hatred is turned inwards or vaguely outwards towards the rest of the world. Just like you have to love yourself to love somebody else. You truly have to hate yourself to hate anybody else.
I do understand how it works, my brain is severely damaged. The parts of the brain that process emotions and thinks rationally is damaged and growth was stunted at a very early age. I never stopped having temper tantrums after the terrible twos. Deep down I am nothing more than a wounded child in a grownups body. https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/is...nt/effects.cfm
I agree they are not much different me. At least they aren't much different than how I was, after the adrenalin started to wear off I started thinking more rationally. I told myself that these miscreants aren't going to go much further than I have in life. My parents claim I was planned but I grew up feeling like an accident. I have told my mother repeatedly during my upbringing that I wish she would've just had an abortion because my life has been so miserable.
You're right, I guess their story was just as bad as mine with **** parents, **** friends, bullied in school, molested as kids, hated by their mother and physically/psychologically abused by their drunken parents. This lead them into a life of crime which damns them to an eternity of poverty and misery. Literal hell on earth.
Actually the alcohol helped me the other night, I sat in my room all by myself listening to music, there was nobody to piss me off or push my buttons. It just made me walk funny and pee a lot. I also got a little dizzy, nothing compared to the complete loss of reality my former drugs of choice would provide me. I had dreams that I relapsed on drugs and was having sex with people I shouldn't be (other people's wives). Usually when I get mean with alcohol its because I'm hanging out with people and they disrespect me in some way. This crushes my fragile, small ego and makes my self esteem plummet below 0. It triggers my inner bully to come out and team up with them to make me feel even more embarrassed and helpless. When I feel trapped into a corner I am dangerous because that primal survival instinct tells me inflicting pain on somebody is the only way I'm going to be able to survive until tomorrow.

Like I said I've been handling things much better, I haven't actually fought anybody in a long while. Even when they were provoking it, I've been in physical fights with women to. Particularly my mother because she would get drunk and start punching me in the face and pushing me around getting all up in my face and yelling. My fight or flight reaction is delayed, after I already have a couple lumps on my head my adrenalin takes over my limbic system and I start fighting back without care for the consequences. That's why I was kicked out of her house when I was 13 and have been homeless numerous times. Because I defended myself against her abuse and didn't just take a beating like a good slave. I would often black out during these times and not remember any of the details of what I did to her. She claims I knocked her teeth out and broke her nose, I still don't want to believe that I did such things. Part of me knows it is physically possible, but the other part of me knows that she is an exaggerator and a lying sack of ****.

HNS, I feel for you, and I think we have many parallels. I any to post some thoughts in depth, but it will be later, I'm still working on reclaiming my disaster of a yard, and need to get some things done before the rain moves in.

" I grew up on violence, violent family, violent school environment, violent streets, violent friends, violent music, violent TV shows, violent video games, violent movies and violent porn." quote HealingNSuffering

This is your "original" programing, the "norm" of your environment as a child. If you think about it, you never really "knew" how to relax and "feel safe" basically, you grew up in constant hypervigilance.

I can relate to this, me too and it was very hard for me to "relive" that part of my life when I developed PTSD. Yes, I was "always" looking over my shoulder, that was "normal" to me, I had no idea it was not really "normal" either.

The fact that you have come to realize that "talk therapy" has been helping is really what you need on a constant basis. You need to slowly "learn" how to talk things out verses "the constant aggression you grew up in". Hey, this is a skill and it isn't easy to develop it to a point where you "don't trigger and regress".

OE

Thanks, this weather is dreary and probably contributing to my anhedonia. I hate this month and fall in general, it puts me back into a bad place. I was put out on the streets in the fall and lived outside during the coldest fall I've ever experienced. Temps went below freezing and I couldn't breathe, I barely slept.
That's true, anytime exes would give me a back massage they would say I had "knots" and felt very tense in certain areas. I had no clue what they were talking about. My T also told me when I first started going there that my body language was very "tense" and uncomfortable looking. I was also suffering from an immense pain caused by muscle spasms and cramps that were squeezing my nerves and making them extremely sensitive to touch. You are right I was hypervigilant, I was also paranoid at a young age, I used to think my parents were poisoning my food. I used to feel like I had already lived a complete life before this one and my past life was extremely hard to. I watched my family abuse each other and there was a lot of animosity in my life from the start. I also had trouble breathing and grew up on steroids.

Always looked over my shoulder, always felt anxiety, that's why I couldn't concentrate in school was mostly anxiety partly ADD. I never had friends because I would get extremely anxious waiting for them to come over, or become very clingy when they would try to leave. Or we would be cool for a day or two then get into a physical fight. My whole life I longed for companionship and never had a stable relationship with anybody. The only true companions that ever stuck by my side are dead now because they were dogs, and I cried harder for them than I do when any human being dies even blood relatives. My whole life I've felt different from everybody else, our brains don't work the same way and they probably never will. I used to think anxiety was "just how it is" and didn't know that other people were not as uncomfortable as I was all the time.

I went looking through my childhood pictures and noticed that all the smiles were forced. It helped me remember some good times that I forgot about, but it also brought back some painful memories that were buried in the back of my mind. I never grieved much for the loss of my family members, except my dogs. I have a hard time feeling sorry for myself at all and started therapy with 0 self-compassion. I feel like when I do cry about this kind of stuff, I don't know what I'm crying for and have become a master at holding in my tears. When I cry, I do it until I get a migraine/tension headache from having such misery inside of me.