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  #1  
Old May 29, 2009, 01:25 PM
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lifelesstraveled lifelesstraveled is offline
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T asked me what it would be like if I tried to push past the discomfort of opening up to her about things that are hard to talk about....(I guess this could go back to the thread I started and then deleted).

She said that she's noticed several times in the past when the topic got a little difficult that she could see my discomfort (and i thought i hid it pretty well) and she ended up having to move from that topic to something else.

I told her that Im scared I am going to have another session where I felt like I was completely removed from the room...I had a session like this a few weeks ago when I gave her something I'd written...I sat there as she read it and she asked questions but her voice was muffled and I felt like I was disappearing. I apparently understood some of what she was saying because I answered her questions, which I don't even remember the answers to. I don't remember much of that session---I eventually ended up telling her this week (geez i just hope she doesnt think I wasnt listening to her). I've had other sessions like that just not as bad.

I know in order for her to help me I need to start pushing past this discomfort, but I don't know how to do this without shutting down and missing entire sessions.

Any advice, words of wisdom...anything? Im desperate...
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  #2  
Old May 29, 2009, 01:40 PM
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From someone else who dealt with serious anxiety/discomfort/zoning out during therapy, I think you just have to go at your own pace. If you are self-motivated and already feel like you're pushing yourself to move forward/share more, then you are probably already doing what you should be.

It took me almost a year of therapy before I stopped getting a sick stomach/tons of anxiety before every single session. But, I can say, now I really don't get that any more. I don't really zone out too much any more either, though I still forget things if I have a really hard session. Little steps forward so that you get used to sharing/connecting, and over time you will learn that it's OK and your body will learn not to have such an extreme anxiety response. That's my opinion at least.

I also do a lot of sharing outside of session via email. This has pros and cons. The con is that if I overshare that way, there can be a lot of anxiety build up before seeing her face-to-face and getting some reassurance. But overall, the email helps me share in a lower stress format, and then I already know she knows it, so after I settle down, I can revisit it in session without it being too scary.

Also, my T suggested relaxation exercises once, and though I didn't follow up on those, that might be another option for taming the anxiety too?

I also try to write out everything I remember directly after session. That helps me not forget more things and gives me a chance to think about what we discussed and email additional things I wanted to respond but didn't get to during session.

It sounds like you're motivated to share more and so, if your experience is anything like mine, it will just mean taking lots of baby steps forward and eventually it will get easier.
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  #3  
Old May 29, 2009, 02:07 PM
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LTL, can you tell her just what you've said here and see what she suggests? Ts seem to be marvelous at finding gentle ways to approach the fenced off areas.

the fact that you are wondering how to push past the discomfort could mean that you are ready to at least try it. this is very brave and a BIG step forward.
Go gently
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  #4  
Old May 29, 2009, 06:37 PM
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LLT, I have this same difficulty. It is so challenging to deal with. Things really seem to be intensifying in therapy as I am really trying to push through my discomfort. Luckily for me my T has matched my in session efforts with out of session support. At this point, I know I can trust her but the blockade still there. I will say this, at times I am just as uncomfortable during the session as I was at the beginning. BUT I am now willing to think and even sometimes speak about things that I would NEVER thought possible a year ago.The distress is there but the topic intensity and depth has
Increased dramatically.

Maybe this is happening to you but you just don't realize the progress your making.
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  #5  
Old May 29, 2009, 10:46 PM
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thanks everyone...

Notme thanks for sharing your experience with me. I was beginning to think something was wrong with me. I have been in T since Oct and have yet to really discuss anything(emotions and feelings and my MOTHER are hard topics for me) and was starting to think she was beginning to get fed up with me and I was ready to quit....

...yes i am very motivated to move a little bit further into therapy...but that pushing past the discomfort thing is going to be a chore for me....the whole sharing outside of therapy---even just writing somethign down and giving it to her during session is HARD..I think i may have over shared last time and that is why I got so zoned out...

My T has also told me about breathing exercises to lessen anxiety...yeah I didnt follow up on those exercises. I have tried...but I am not very diligent with it

Sitting--I will tell her or try to tell her all of this next week...

my T is very gentle at moving into uncomfy territory and even more gentle at moving out of it b/c most of the time I don't even notice until I realize that im not shaking on the inside.

Chaotic--You know, T said that I had made some progress last week. I honestly didn't realize it at all...maybe I am...She seemed somewhat pleased ( i have been worrying that I am a therapy DUNCE and that she was ready to kick me out), so maybe that is why she mentioned the whole moving past the discomfort...I dont know, but I would really like to TRY.... I am not going to get my hopes up....I may completely go in the opposite direction afterwards and really decide to quit

Thank you all for your advice and wisdom and support
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  #6  
Old May 29, 2009, 11:53 PM
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IDK in my therapy my T seems to kind of push me but the backs off for a while. I thinks a lot of times the benefits from these pushes come out several sessions later. However, I think there are somethings that I can't push through. Verbalizing seems to be one of them. I've been doing much better talking in sessions. However this week I encountered one of those road blocks where pushing only makes things worse. My T held up an image I drew and the more she asked questions about it the greater my resistance got. My throat closed, ears heard like static and my head felt like it was going to explode and my thoughts scrambled. In this case pushing just made things worse. If my pattern hold, it will likely come back and discuss the things with greater detail 2-3 sessions from now.

For me I push myself then back off for a while and reapproach later.
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  #7  
Old May 30, 2009, 12:15 AM
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My experience is very close to Notme's with the dissociation and the time it takes to get into stuff. 6 years to not dread sessions. 6 years to finally see some improvement. yet still i cannot address the abuse. T is asking how to make sessions more beneficial for me and i just tonight had a brainwave (3 weeks recovery from that scary session, thinking she was going to terminate me). So this thread prompted the brainwave, and my resulting email to t. thank you for that.
I still dissociate (leave the room mentally, can't remember what was said, stop talking, space out) at hard topics and t has to change the topic. it takes time. have to develop trust, create relationship, trust the relationship, re-work the meaning of this unique relationship in your mind.... it's not an easy path. for most people it takes 3-4 months just warming up to therapy. with serious issues, it takes longer. for healing something like abuse it takes 3-10 years of therapy (so says the expert i was taking class from). like i said, i'm on 6. i sure hope t is willing to stick with me for the next 4.
best luck to you - trust the process and your own sense of time moving through it - it can't be forced.
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  #8  
Old May 31, 2009, 05:34 PM
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Lifelesstraveled,

I can relate to the fear of opening up with your t and going deeper. I've had to rely on email many times as a way to nudge into a topic because i just felt too distressed and anxious to bring it up face to face. For me, disclosing things in email beforehand makes it easier for me to talk about them when i go to my session later and my t brings it up. It's easier because it's already "out there on the table." Maybe this is something you could do to break the ice of those painful frozen topics.

I've also experienced what you have, a feeling of disappearing, not being present in the room, forgetting what's said, etc. For me, it's a feeling like i am losing hold of reality and am disappearing back into the painful past. I'm pretty sure it is dissociation, and it usually happens when I am too deep into discussing painful feelings or a traumatic memory.

I have found that trying to "push through it" or make myself go deeper than i feel able to tolerate DOES NOT help. What does help is what my t calls "titrating" the experience. She asks me on a scale of 1 to 10 drops, how many drops of discomfort i am willing and able to feel during the session. I tell her, and then i do my best to discuss the painful issue. But once i get the sense that things are getting to be "too much" for me, i let t know. Then she has me picture putting all the remaining discomfort in a box and locking it until the next time we meet. Then we do some kind of breathing or relaxation exercise before i leave.

It has been VERY VERY important for my t and I to discover how much i can tolerate and when things become "too much," and then stopping things before they overwhelm me. It may take some time for you and your t to discover where your tolerance point is. But eventually, you'll begin to know how much you are able to divulge and to discuss without becoming overwhelmed.

Generally speaking, if you start to dissociate and lose your awareness of what's going on in the present moment with t or feel yourself disappearing, it's time to bring the discussion to a stop for the time being.
Thanks for this!
Kiya, lifelesstraveled
  #9  
Old May 31, 2009, 06:34 PM
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Everyone...

Kiya--I am glad this email moved to you contact your T---glad I could help
I am trying to trust the process.....

Peaches--- thanks! I am scared to let T know when I feel like I am starting to zone out and by the time I do, I think she is already aware of it and changes the topic...When i was younger I was TERRIFIED to tell my mother i was sick or didnt feel well so i let her figure it out without me saying anything and I guess I am sort of doing that with T. T usually sees the discomfort and move away from the topic. But you and everyone else is right. I can't force it. I will just have to move into the uncomfy zone a little at a time instead of throwing myself into it full force.

thanks everyone
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  #10  
Old May 31, 2009, 08:24 PM
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My T told me that it is usually a bad idea to force a client to disclose or discuss things before they are ready. It just reinforces the defenses, and you often don't see the client again.

Of course my T just has to wait until I am hypomanic and then I end up telling her stuff I had no intention of ever telling her. Then when I cool down I get to deal with the shameful feelings. Icky yucky PTSD feelings.

Therapy is hard, we all deserve some hugs!
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  #11  
Old May 31, 2009, 09:14 PM
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I think throughout the course of my therapy, I have been the one doing all the pushing and forcing. A few of the truly awful sessions where I had a lot of difficultly with flashbacks and flooding occurred after I forced myself. Patience and allowing yourself to coast sometimes instead of pushing ahead every session is helpful too.
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  #12  
Old Jun 01, 2009, 12:39 AM
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Yeah, throwing yourself at it full throttle can result in it throwing you riiiiight back. @_@ take care of you!
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  #13  
Old Jun 01, 2009, 07:30 AM
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Amazon Mom, it's not so much that T is forcing or pushing me, I think she feels like I might be a little bit stronger emotionally than I was when I first started seeing her back in october--though I hadn't noticed, and she probably thinks I might be able to handle pushing just a little more OR maybe based on what happened a few weeks ago after I over shared and LLT completely left the building, maybe she got a little concerned and was trying to poke around to find out what happened. But I would like to be able to open up more. So it's more so me wanting to push just a tad more...but I can never find that balance either I under share or over share...there is no middle, which seems to be the theme of the rest of my life

Chaotic and Kiya

I think there have a been a few times when i have pushed myself too much too fast too soon and completely regretted it and left T's office feeling so outside of myself that i vowed to NEVER to that again. Those are the only times I can remember, though T says there have been more than a few times I have gone beyond my limit, that she has noticed. She does want me to be able to push a little past the discomfort and be able to stay there... I just need to learn to take smaller steps...

or maybe she just wanted to know what i think would happen if I did(i.e. zone out), so she would know how to proceed should that happen in the future....

we'll see what happens on wednesday
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  #14  
Old Jun 01, 2009, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelesstraveled View Post
I think there have a been a few times when i have pushed myself too much too fast too soon and completely regretted it and left T's office feeling so outside of myself that i vowed to NEVER to that again.
Yes, I tend to be a bit bullheaded too at times. I think one of my problems is after I leave and feel like crap I don't allow myself to say, "wow, that was a lot harder on me than I thought it would be." Instead I mentally smack myself for being such a baby. My T doesn't push me....I shove myself.

I will also say that sometimes when I push myself beyond my discomfort, I crash hard but then learn a lot and gain a lot when I work my way back into balance. This to me has been the hard part in therapy. Since EVERYTHING is uncomfortable, its hard to know when I should be pushing and when I should be resting/recovering. Just like with exercise, if you say within your comfort zone your able to maintain your level of conditioning. But if you want to move to a high level of function you need to provide some overload. But is you overload yourself too much... you get sore, lose function, and want to quit moving. I guess little progressive daily steps is the way to go mentally too.

Good luck on Wednesday
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  #15  
Old Jun 01, 2009, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
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I will also say that sometimes when I push myself beyond my discomfort, I crash hard but then learn a lot and gain a lot when I work my way back into balance. This to me has been the hard part in therapy. Since EVERYTHING is uncomfortable, its hard to know when I should be pushing and when I should be resting/recovering.
Wow, that really hits home for me! I may have overdone it tonight - I told T something I've never told anyone. She was great, but then I felt so grouchy in session, and I felt so lousy afterwards! And now, I just want to go to bed. How do you know when you've pushed yourself too far, if I don't want to get out of bed tomorrow?
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  #16  
Old Jun 01, 2009, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dreamseeker9 View Post
How do you know when you've pushed yourself too far, if I don't want to get out of bed tomorrow?
i know cuz the voices berate me for being (fill in the blank here) and often will self injure. Then I know, YEP, went too far too soon... or yes, depression sets in for the long haul, or anxety, or.... good luck wed.

I am pushing the envelope again by finally doing bodywork tomorrow. We'll see!
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  #17  
Old Jun 03, 2009, 07:31 PM
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Iatrogenic injury... When the treatment itself causes injury. There is no doubt that overloading our system often leads to fatigue, discomfort, and maybe some minor trauma. But we should be able to get ourselves out of bed the next day and we should still be able to function. If things are worst than that... You've probably pushed too hard.
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  #18  
Old Jun 03, 2009, 08:02 PM
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i pushed too hard... *sigh* lotsa pain... can barely keep up today. gotta go to therapy now.... meh
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  #19  
Old Jun 03, 2009, 08:32 PM
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Life,

I was with my first T for 7 years and all through out those 7 years I battled with her about "stressful" topics......I would zone out, walk out mid session, tell her to get stuffed and all sorts of diversionary techniques. She got to the point of making me sign a "contract" that I was able to at any point stop a conversation but had to promise that we would return to it at another time. And when we did, I was able to stop it at any point and come back to it and so on......FINALLY after 7 years I was able to talk relatively freely about most things......

It was a VERY hard process for my T.......I was volatile and obstinate but she knew I was trying hard to get better so she put up with me.

Don't worry if you can't listen all the time.....tell them when you are zoning out and don't be afraid to tell them you don't want to talk about it, but for therapeutic reasons, you will return to it later.....

It will get easier......I was a horror head......at least you are aware that you are struggling with this.......I thought it was all my T's fault!!
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  #20  
Old Jun 03, 2009, 10:13 PM
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so I am a little disappointed. today T went easy on me. we kept it fairly simple. little i brought up how I regretted telling her something a few weeks ago and we just skimmed over it. I told her I think I am taking too long in therapy and all she said was "it's hard and it takes time to change negative patterns we have been in for a long time"--that's all she said. I kind of wanted to talk about some other deeper stuff...even if i had to struggle. I wanted to try, but we kept it really straight forward and didnt digg too deep at all. She said she wanted to give me a break and said that sometimes we just need to keep things on the "surface"?? so because I am planning on moving out of state we discussed what i need to do in order for it to happen successfully. it was a decent appt,i guess. Maybe she is getting tired of me and just wants me to hurry up and so she can open that slot for someone else....

Michah--i am the opposite of you. I definitely don't have outward ruptures with T--partly because I am terrible at expressing my frustrations and anger and usually take it out on myself when I struggle to talk and open up....I definitely know it's me. I have kept so much to myself for so long that it's hard to just let everything out. I don't even know where to start. I have told T when I dont want to talk about something, but you are right, we always returned to it later...
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  #21  
Old Jun 03, 2009, 10:14 PM
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((((Kiya))))))

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiya View Post
i pushed too hard... *sigh* lotsa pain... can barely keep up today. gotta go to therapy now.... meh
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  #22  
Old Jun 03, 2009, 11:49 PM
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((((life))) you know what? same here. But I have to trust that our T's know something we don't. I, too, went in with a *plan* and was (fearful) ready to implement it. We'd talked about the bodywork I just started and how that is bringing up stuff. But I was still ready to plough ahead. T was not as enthusiastic. But it truly is for my own safety. She knows where I often end up and wants me to have more stability before diving in head first. I had a lot of anxiety today, trying to decide which topics to jump into; SA, a rupture with another dr, another medical topic being discussed here in a different thread, the bodywork, or just surface stuff which T was leaning towards. She was the one who told me she felt like a bad T for not managing to make sessions more benificial, so I upped the ante and T backed out. It is hard for me to think of it in terms of being for my safety - I was ready!!! I was going to run my head into another wall (and prolly self injure or fall into some dark tunnel) just to prove she wasn't a bad t!! But T knows best afterall. In fact, she set it up so that we don't even actually implement my plan for another 3 weeks - "and then it is still subject to change, depending on how things are". Again, for my own safety. There is a reason these things aren't pushed - they can push us back pretty hard and end us up in the gutter. Try to trust the process =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelesstraveled View Post
so I am a little disappointed. I wanted to try, but we kept it really straight forward and didnt dig too deep at all. She said she wanted to give me a break and said that sometimes we just need to keep things on the "surface"?? so because I am planning on moving out of state we discussed what i need to do in order for it to happen successfully. it was a decent appt,i guess. Maybe she is getting tired of me and just wants me to hurry up and so she can open that slot for someone else....
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  #23  
Old Jun 04, 2009, 07:40 AM
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LLT, how are you today? Hope all is well.
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  #24  
Old Jun 04, 2009, 07:43 AM
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LLT,
This happens to me all the time and maybe it is part of the way my T does therapy. I have a difficult session like the one where I introduced my Touch plan. The adult me is there so I seem all together and ready to push forward. Then after the session, other less "together" parts surface and I kind of freak out. I send my T a bunch of stuff from these parts between the sessions. Sometime when she replies she says things the suggest that we will address an issue in the next session.(e.g. "the child part of you is really scared, we will talk to her next time and give her a few more tools to stay present.") But then the next session seems really superficial and I mention some of the stuff that surfaced after the session but never really talk in detail about it or in the above case never get any tools to stay present. IDK I guess it is my fault we stay on the edges of the issues and never it the center.I'll have to think about this more before next week. Maybe we are in the center or working on the "tools" and I just don't see it.?????
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  #25  
Old Jun 04, 2009, 08:44 AM
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((Kiya)) trust the process---*sigh* I am trying to. I just want things to go MY way. I like to know what is going to happen how and why...Like I need some type of therapy guide...feel like I have spent my entire life wandering aimlessly without any direction and I am doing the same thing in T and I dont like it.

I was so confused when i went into see T I was ready to "dive" in, especially after we discussed my difficulties in talking about harder topics and she completely skimmed over everything I tried to bring up....she thinks it's because I dont want to talk about it, but what she doesnt understand is that have literally kept everything to myself FOREVER and all of a sudden having to actually verbalize these things is HARD for me. It's not that dont want to though...

SAWE-
I am doing okay surprisingly. I was a little frustrated in T yesterday b/c after discussing my difficulties in opening up and her asking what it would be like to sit in those uncomfy feelings and thoughts, we completely didnt go in that direction at all and I was fully expecting to. But I am kind of happy that we set some goals to make my move to a new state and job a successful one--so I guess that's a good thing...

chaotic, I wish I knew my T's thought process for this. I feel left out in the dark about what's going on and I hate it. it gets me frantic and my thoughts start going. Like Kiya said, our Ts know what they are doing. Maybe they are gently trying to move us into the deeper end, but slowly. and when we want to swim out further than we'd like, they are there to pull us back and keep us from getting in over our head....maybe that is what T is doing...IDK....
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