[mixedup_emotions]

I am not quite sure how I feel at the moment about it. So much to process. I handed him my revised write-up, and the first thing he said was, "I don't see the "you" statements you're referring to"...That helped me feel that he was in defense mode. But he retracted quickly and said that he won't focus on that but rather the overall message. He also made a comment that he didn't see how he wasn't remorseful. He asked what I wanted to start with, and I couldn't decide. He asked what my goal was for this. I told him that I needed to be heard and understood. He said that it was very clear and that he understood.

Apparently, that wasn't enough. So, I asked him if he had feedback. He said, "I thought you just wanted to be heard and understood"...and I said that apparently that doesn't feel like enough. I told him that I was struggling with the Dr. Jeckyll/Mr. Hyde aspect of it - and the inconsistency - and that I don't know if I am ok with that....or how to be ok with that...or if I can be ok with that.

He went on to talk about how he can't promise the level of consistency that I seem to want - and said stuff about him not believing in experiencing transference and counter-transference - but rather that it is a real relationship where he is affected by his clients, think about them outside of sessions, respond to them outside of sessions, think about ways that he can further help them, and that he is affected, more than a therapist/client - so his reactions are real, and that it is not his nature or character to be detached. I told him that I felt that it was terribly unbalanced. He asked if what I mean is that his reaction to me may be ok from a friend or family member, but not a therapist. I said yes, and that he is my primary support which made it very difficult to endure. We talked briefly then about how it's no surprise to either of us that I need to work on building my support system. He then said that a different therapist that can provide more consistency is what I may want or need.

I told him I didn't know how to make it better. He said that maybe that's not my goal right now. I told him that I didn't want another therapist. He said that wasn't what he was suggesting. I told him that I knew that and was just making a statement. He said that maybe, for right now, we can see how things evolve - and that the trust may not be there, and that I may be guarded - and that it's understandable and ok - and that we can let the relationship evolve and see where it leads...and in the meantime, work on what I can with him that I feel is "safe".

I told him I wasn't happy about this, especially right now when so many difficult things are going on. He understood.

*sigh*

I don't know. I guess I was hoping for more compassion and some reassurance of his caring....but maybe he did give that in his explanation and I'm just not hearing it. Maybe during my next session, I will ask for that.

We then started talking about my ex, and the upcoming court date, and strategies, etc. He was my typical T, and that was ok. Since I have court on Tuesday early afternoon, we scheduled an extra session for Tuesday morning - in case I need that extra support prior to court.

[WePow]

(((((((((((MUE)))))))) just letting you know I am glad you posted this update and hope you can find the peace you need through all of this.

[Fartraveler]

Thanks for posting, MUE.

There's a lot to process, as you say. I guess it will just take some time.

Take care,
-Far

[SpiritRunner]

((((mue)))) I'm sorry it felt disappointing.....but maybe you are right, maybe there was more compassion there than you were able to or in the frame of mind to see? All I can see is that there is still need for clarification....somehow it seems the 2 of you aren't really hearing each other well enough from my interpretation of the things you've posted. I'm sorry....I know how it feels to try and try and still not feel heard and understood. Sometimes, you just need some time to rest from the effort and then come back to it from a different angle.....
I wish you peace and grace, too......

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I told him that I needed to be heard and understood. He said that it was very clear and that he understood.

Apparently, that wasn't enough. So, I asked him if he had feedback. He said, "I thought you just wanted to be heard and understood"...and I said that apparently that doesn't feel like enough.

I'm confused here. What did he say was clear? Why did you feel that it wasn't enough (maybe this will be clear after you answer my first question).

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

He went on to talk about how he can't promise the level of consistency that I seem to want - and said stuff about him not believing in experiencing transference and counter-transference - but rather that it is a real relationship where he is affected by his clients, ..... and that he is affected, more than a therapist/client - so his reactions are real, and that it is not his nature or character to be detached.

Hmmmm, these beliefs of his seem to be at the heart of what is causing the problems.

[mixedup_emotions]

Thanks....

Sannah - He basically said that what I wrote was clear, that I was expressing feelings that I felt needed to be said. There was no reaction to it, other than he didn't see where there were "you" statements and something about not having remorse. It was like, "OK, I read it.".....

And I'm not quite sure it's his beliefs is really the issue. I don't want him to be detached. I want him to be invested in the relationship. But I want him to also practice what he preaches, kwim? If he's trying to teach healthy communication, then I expect him to model it as best he can.

When he said that maybe a different T would serve my needs better, my heart sunk. *sigh*

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

Apparently, that wasn't enough. So, I asked him if he had feedback. He said, "I thought you just wanted to be heard and understood"...and I said that apparently that doesn't feel like enough.

Why did you feel that it wasn't enough?

Did you tell him about him modeling healthy communication?

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

it is a real relationship where he is affected by his clients, ....and that he is affected, more than a therapist/client - .

This bothers me.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Why did you feel that it wasn't enough?

Did you tell him about him modeling healthy communication?

Once he acknowledged that he read it, etc....I sat for a minute and felt that it was not satisfying. I told T I didn't know why, but it doesn't feel like enough. Yes, modeling healthy behavior was part of my writing.

Perhaps if I asked him to read it outloud...or I read it outloud to him...or if he said something about each point, acknowledging more than just "I read it"....maybe that would've made a difference.

Maybe I want a commitment from him that he can't or won't give me....to not do this to me again. I don't know. He said he would try to be more gentle in the future. He recognized and took ownership of his contributions. What more could I want? I guess it's that I'm just not ok with it all. Maybe I don't have to be right now. Maybe that will come in time. I wish I had a magic therapy 8-ball that could give me the answers....

i think there is a difference between just hearing your words, which he did, and really getting it or understanding where you were coming from. it doesn't sound like he "got it" to me, that you were truly understood or validated. it was more just him letting you say your piece. i think your T is who he is and while he'll try to do better he isn't going to be anyone other than the T he is. if that is enough for you then that is great but if you want a consistently compassionate, gentle and supportive T then you will probably not find that with him as it doesn't sound like his style. i think the question is looking at the long-term will you be able to make progress with the type of T that he is or would you be better off with someone with a gentler style. i know you are very attached to your T but ultimately if you stick with him another couple of years mostly out of affection rather than what is best for you you may not be able to make as much progress in therapy as you'd like. i think you have to think like a parent here and detach a bit from your own feelings of attachment for him and decide if he is someone who can truly help you or if you need a different type of therapy. some therapists i listen to on the radio say "play the movie" i.e. imagine what you think will likely happen in the future based on your past history with him and think about if that is the best outcome for you.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

He went on to talk about how he can't promise the level of consistency that I seem to want

What does "consistency" mean? How would you like him to be more consistent than he says he is capable of? I think for anyone who is modestly genuine and authentic, consistency is not that hard. So I'm not sure what he means. It sounds bad to be incapable of being consistent, like a statement from a person who doesn't know who he is. Or maybe a person who is extremely moody and volatile, so when you show up for therapy each week, you don't know what T will be there with you.

MUE, it seems like the current problem with your T stems from your interactions during the group session. Maybe you could quit group and eliminate that source of tension between you. It seems like group therapy is interfering with your individual therapy and your relationship with your T. Therapists and clients are recommended not to have dual relationships for just this reason--the other relationship can interfere with and harm the therapeutic relationship, which should be primary. If you don't want to quit group, perhaps you could take a break from it until you get things sorted out in individual therapy with your T. It could be a challenge to put this back together, so eliminating some of the stresses on the relationship could be helpful during this period of vulnerability.

Good luck with this--at least you are on speaking terms and trying to work it out. And good luck with your court date--yuck!

Originally Posted by sunrise

I think for anyone who is modestly genuine and authentic, consistency is not that hard. So I'm not sure what he means. It sounds bad to be incapable of being consistent,

This stood out to me too. My T's solid, constant presence is a huge part of why i feel safe in therapy. He's not unpredictable. I know who he is, and how he will react to things....and if there is ever a surprise in how he reacts, it's usually because he's more gentle with me than I expected him to be (if I'm beating myself up for something or whatever).

I'm also not sure about the "being affected more than therapist/client". I KNOW that my T thinks about me outside of session, and I know that he worries about me when I'm having a hard time, but I also know that he has excellent boundaries. He considers the t/client relationship to be sacred, especially when we are doing the kind of work we're doing, and he treats it as such. It is what it is - a t/client relationship. I don't WANT him to be stressing out about me at home...I want him to be able to be with his family, and his Self. If he told me that he was affected by me more than a therapist/client way, I would feel uncomfortable. And I know he loves me and I love him very much and there IS a relationship there...yet somehow, there is also this boundary that I can't quite put into words that, for me, is a big part of the reason therapy works.

Honestly, from the outside, I would love for you to have a T who is able to be more consistent and gentle with you, with clearer boundaries and more accountability for his own behavior. But I know how important the T relationship is, and what it feels like to be attached, so I know that's much much easier said than done.

Like my T says, "pay attention". Pay attention to your feelings, your fears, the things you like, the things you don't like. Believe in your feelings and in your truth.

Hugs and more hugs to you

[ECHOES]

mue, thinking of you and your struggles and pain

[Fartraveler]

and said stuff about him not believing in experiencing transference and counter-transference - but rather that it is a real relationship where he is affected by his clients, think about them outside of sessions, respond to them outside of sessions, think about ways that he can further help them, and that he is affected, more than a therapist/client - so his reactions are real, and that it is not his nature or character to be detached.

I guess I have basically no idea how gestalt therapy is supposed to work, and perhaps that's why your T always comes across as so jarring.

My T very much believes in both transference and countertransference (I've read her articles), and I also know that she's affected by me, thinks about me outside of sessions, and is just very very involved.

There certainly are boundaries, but they don't to do with transference.

I think of the transference stuff as something that makes us closer. What I mean is, there's the relationship between us, between our two genuine selves, and then, layered over that, is that I react to her in the way that I have (for example) been trained to react by a parent who abused me. So, I'm afraid of my T, I desperately want her to love me, I want her to care for me -- all that stuff. That's the transference stuff -- a kind of false layer of feeling that covers over our actual relationship, but isn't really generated out of it.

So, once I, with her help, could figure out the transference stuff, then our relationship became more real, and closer, because we could have a relationship between our genuine selves.

And I think being clear about my transference stuff has allowed me to be more genuine with other people in my life.

(And I know that she thinks about her countertransference stuff, because I've read some of her articles.)

There are still boundaries -- we won't be going out for coffee together -- but as I say, they don't have to do with transference.

Here is a nice article, from this site:http://pro.psychcentral.com/2011/bou...apy/00243.html

From that article:

After some time in therapy I became acutely aware of how special the therapeutic relationship really is. The true confidentiality became apparent. It was clear that when negative issues arose, there was time to work them out against a thinking “punching bag,” who would not wilt or show personal distress when I expressed difficult feelings. In fact, my “punching bag” therapist looked forward to such challenges, took them as meaningful outpourings from me, and used his training to help me express such feelings. Together we built a positive framework for accepting and dealing with the underlying causes of my anger, guilt, and sadness.

I thought of this during the punching bag discussion. My T has certainly put up with a lot of 'punching bag' stuff from me, and she never ever treated it as anything except material for discussion.

But anyway, my question here is really about gestalt therapy. How is your therapy actually supposed to work?

Thanks,
-Far

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I sat for a minute and felt that it was not satisfying. I told T I didn't know why, but it doesn't feel like enough.

Don't forget or discount this. It is important information for you.