[rainbow8]

Part 1: I don't mean that you cry. I mean that when I'm with my T she's THERE so I don't feel the pain so badly. She's replacing what I missed, sort of. I can't access the grief when I'm with her--not fully, anyway. Just a little when, like yesterday, the child part held her hand and asked her to love her, etc. Feeling the big hurt is progress, T thinks.

Part 2: But I don't understand how to grieve for something when I don't know what it is. On my collage I put "love fills you up right." I found those words somewhere. I had to cut and paste. I emailed my T that I must not have been filled up right and I want her to fix it. But CAN she fix it? How do I grieve for something that hurts so bad but I don't know what it is? How can I grieve if what I missed was touch when I was in an incubator? I can grieve for my mother leaving me by dying but what about the things I don't know about? For everyone who ever left me? I mean friends who moved, or my boyfriend from college. No one ever abandoned me.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

How do I grieve for something that hurts so bad but I don't know what it is?

To start, allow this pain.........

[SpiritRunner]

yes, being aware of the hurt, feeling it, giving yourself permission to feel it without guilt/shame, feeling it even without (and before) understanding more fully what all the what and why of it might be.....this is a good beginning.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Rainbow, what a huge question. I'm there too. No, you are farther aong than I am; i could never have asked the question. Sorry it hurts so much

[Sweetlove]

I'm there too...I don't have much advice, just try to keep talking through it with your T and be open to whatever you feel

((((((((((((Rainbow)))))))))))))))

For me, the grieving seems to come in waves. I'll go a while without it, and then it will hit me again for a while. It hurts. Sometimes I can try to name it, but sometimes, I just have to be with it. I have spent sessions just crying on T's couch, with him asking questions, and me not having any idea what the answers were. But even without being able to name it, feeling it, allowing it, and accepting it always, ALWAYS helps me move through it.

The grieving come for a while, and then.....it's like there is a little more space inside. More room to breathe, more quiet, more ability to be present in my life. T and I work on other things, life goes on....and then the grieving comes back and we do it again.

I am in the grieving right now too. I called T tonight and left a message and said "I just feel SAD". I just wanted him to know. Sometimes just naming the feeling: "I feel SAD" helps me honor it and let it be what it is.

((((((((((hugs))))))))) to you

[velcro003]

interesting rainbow, i was in an incubator (for a few months) when i was born too!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Part 1: I don't mean that you cry. I mean that when I'm with my T she's THERE so I don't feel the pain so badly.

Early in my therapy, when I was (unbeknownst to me) in what might be termed the "infatuation phase" , I had something to grieve about but I guess I couldn't in therapy. T told me that I felt too good when I was around him and so I couldn't feel sad about this thing to grieve it in his presence. So he told me to go home and grieve this outside of his presence. He suggested I write a letter to the object of my grief and try to communicate with him directly (to evoke him). I did this and it was successful. (The letter was not intended to be sent, it was just a tool to allow grief and closure.) So anyway, that was my T's solution. Don't know if it would work for you or not since you don't have such a specific thing you are wanting to grieve.

When I'm in therapy now with T, and I need to be sad, I just do. Sometimes I fight it, but T has tried to teach me to allow the feelings. So Rainbow, maybe you could try to just allow yourself to feel grief, instead of focusing on understanding the exact reasons you need to grieve. I don't think you need to know those in order to grieve. And focusing on trying to know the reasons why will pull you further away from your feelings (intellectualization?).

[velcro003]

yes!! i intellecutialize everrryyyttthiiinngg. I want to know WHY i am feeling that way!! Which totally does impede on the actual feeling, which I like It is a slowwww process, but I am gradually allowing some feelings to be felt in the therapy room. It is hard and painful, but I do believe it is working.

[SpiritRunner]

Originally Posted by velcro003

yes!! i intellecutialize everrryyyttthiiinngg. I want to know WHY i am feeling that way!! Which totally does impede on the actual feeling, which I like It is a slowwww process, but I am gradually allowing some feelings to be felt in the therapy room. It is hard and painful, but I do believe it is working.

I relate! I love to intellectualize.....and I realize I do it because it removes me from the actual depth and intensity of my emotions/feelings and helps me have control (and I like to be in control, too). It's a coping mechanism, not always a bad one, but if it's keeping me from truly dealing with emotions I need to deal with, that's not good.....so I too am trying to learn how to just let the feelings be, to feel them, to let them show, and then be able to let them go....

[Sannah]

Tree, it's like you grieve in layers?

[rainbow8]

sunrise, in the past, a couple Ts had me write letters to my mother and then write letters back to me as to how I wished she would have responded. I read those letters to my current T but I couldn't access the feelings. So, I've grieved some for my mother, but the hurt is for more than her death. That's so true that I can't grieve when I'm there because T makes me happy! When I come home and email her, the feelings come out.

I intellectualize too much. That's the first thing my new T told me a year ago! IFS has taught me to feel, but it's a slow process.

Poet and velcro, I'm with you about it. Intellectualizing keeps me from feeling the feelings. It keeps me safe. This is the first T I've been able to start to "let go" with. It's very scary for me.

rainbow, I don't know the answer but I wish I did. I think we're in similar positions- knowing that we're not whole without T but not knowing why. Knowing that something was always missing but not knowing what. Coming from loving families and yet finding ourselves having to admit that we didn't get what we needed. I have spent so many years just fighting that- arguing with Ts that it must have been me, not my family, that was wrong. After all, my siblings are fine. And I had everything growing up. But it has gradually sunk in that protecting them/refusing to look at the question isn't really doing anything for them (they're not the ones suffering and they will never know what I talk about in therapy anyway), it's just keeping me unhappy. Which is a source of unhappiness for them too. And gradually it's ok to say "Yes, they gave me everything but somehow it wasn't what I needed". But still... what wasn't what I needed? I don't know. What did I need that I didn't get? I don't know that either...

I guess this isn't really an answer about grieving in T sessions. I have that problem too, or I used to- feeling so wrapped up in T's love that it's almost a buffer from my real life and real problems. When I'm with her, I just want to be with her. So no answer to the question, just some thoughts on how we grieve when we don't know what we're grieving.

If you find out the answer before I do, let me in on the secret
Hugs to you

[rainbow8]

Improving, what you wrote is EXACTLY how it is for me!!!!!

My T agrees that my parents loved me but says my Mom and I didn't mesh right. She puts out her hands and shows how they miss each other. Or it was being in the incubator because I was a preemie.

I know I didn't get loved in the right way, I guess. Or else why would I feel so good, filled up, when T holds my hand? I'm loved and happy in the session with her!

And gradually it's ok to say "Yes, they gave me everything but somehow it wasn't what I needed". But still... what wasn't what I needed? I don't know. What did I need that I didn't get? I don't know that either...

Do you think, like me, it's that your Mom and you didn't fit right even though she loved you? Mine was over-protective--not good either.

[sittingatwatersedge]

I had called T last time asking to confirm our session day & time and she called back to do that & said she was looking forward to seeing me.

When I went to see her, I asked her why on earth would she?

One more time I don't remember the answer, I got very silent and I do remember she asked me several questions about it and I was speechless, just crying with no sound. She gave me space to get words out and I didn't have any, just tears.

Maybe that's grieving, for what I don't know, and if that's what it was, ot was one of the very rare times.
It just came, i didn't think about how to do it.

[rainbow8]

SAWE:

[SpiritRunner]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

I had called T last time asking to confirm our session day & time and she called back to do that & said she was looking forward to seeing me.

When I went to see her, I asked her why on earth would she?

One more time I don't remember the answer, I got very silent and I do remember she asked me several questions about it and I was speechless, just crying with no sound. She gave me space to get words out and I didn't have any, just tears.

Maybe that's grieving, for what I don't know, and if that's what it was, ot was one of the very rare times.
It just came, i didn't think about how to do it.

sawe, I feel tears for you reading this, too....

[SpiritRunner]

somehow, today, after my session, I feel like I'm grieving too......she was her usual lovely self, but there was something there too, that I couldn't name....and something I was feeling afterward.....a need not met because I couldn't verbalize it, I am simply not understanding. And I have had so much the feeling of wanting to simply cry and cry, I didn't know why.....but reading this thread again, it makes me aware that I, too, am grieving in some way......not because she took anything away, but because I feel some sort of loss anyway. something to do with those d*** boundaries, I am sure!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

sunrise, in the past, a couple Ts had me write letters to my mother and then write letters back to me as to how I wished she would have responded. I read those letters to my current T but I couldn't access the feelings.

For me, the accessing of feelings had to occur when I wrote the letter outside of therapy, because in T's presence, I felt too good. So I don't think bringing the letter back to therapy with me would have helped either. That was a grieving I had to do outside of T's presence. And that's OK, isn't it? I don't think everything has to be grieved in the presence of the therapist. But he gave me guidance on doing it outside of therapy. Rainbow, maybe a start would be to do some outside grieving and then just tell your T about it. Then maybe later you can bring the outside ability to grieve inside therapy. (I guess that poses a question--are you able to grieve outside of therapy?)

Originally Posted by rainbow8

This is the first T I've been able to start to "let go" with. It's very scary for me.

Rainbow, that is a milestone, really, and I can see it would be scary. I think you are doing great. Maybe you are trying to force the "grieving in T's presence" too much? Maybe just continuing to "let go" with her and feel would be enough for now? Sometimes if I just sit quietly in therapy, the feelings start to come up to the surface. A lot of time it is sadness. And it is not always clear what it is about, but T always welcomes it. When you sit in therapy, what feelings come up?

I am also thinking back to when I began therapy--the first year or so--and T used to sit closer to me. I needed a lot of support and propping up. He sat so close on some days, sometimes I felt we were almost knee to knee. I don't know if he did that deliberately because he knew it would help me to feel his presence more strongly or what. I needed to feel his strength and caring to get through life at that time. It was a great "crutch" for me. (That isn't quite the right word, as it has a negative connotation--maybe "life preserver" is a better term.) As I have solved some of the worst problems in my life, I don't need his strength so much. He sits further away, and actually, having him sit further away may help me let the negative feelings out more easily. Because he is not so close to me making me feel so good, or feeling so wrapped up in his love, as Improving wrote. If he gives me more distance, it gives me more space to feel the pain. Rainbow, if your T backed off a bit physically (not sitting next to you and holding your hand, for example), would it be easier to not feel so good with her and help you grieve in her presence?

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

I had called T last time asking to confirm our session day & time and she called back to do that & said she was looking forward to seeing me.

When I went to see her, I asked her why on earth would she?

One more time I don't remember the answer, I got very silent and I do remember she asked me several questions about it and I was speechless, just crying with no sound. She gave me space to get words out and I didn't have any, just tears.

Maybe that's grieving, for what I don't know, and if that's what it was, ot was one of the very rare times.
It just came, i didn't think about how to do it.

[eskielover]

There was a term I heard in my DBT group "radical acceptance"....meaning that some things in our past &/or present just are what they are or were & we have to just accept it & "let it go". We don't have to know everything......we can't know everything that has happened in our life & even if it did make a difference in us, we just need to not focus on those parts of our life that we can't possibly change.....accept it for what it was & try to make the best out of what we have & know now. We can grieve what we didn't have, but to dwell on the grief is not healthy.....to acknowledge it & then go on from there is what accepting it & letting it go so we can heal is all about.

Wishing you peace