[ECHOES]

This is a copy of a post I made in rainbow8's thread about hugs:

I do not enjoy casual hugs at all. I have family who hug coming and going and it is meaningless to me. Diluted, I guess.

As I was waiting in the waiting room for my T this past week, another person arrived and was waiting. I was a little nervous because the week before my T had double booked and had to tell the other person that she had mad a mistake; it all worked out fine but I did feel bad for the other patient. Before my T came to get me, the other patient's therapist came out and said her name; when she was near her therapist, the therapist lit up and said How ARE you! and gave her a big hug.

me: *pouts a little*

So, this became the opening for my session.
Back to the hug.
Which in the course of talking about it, I realized that I'm not ready for a hug. I struggle so much with the slightest bit of closeness, as much as I want it. It was good, and even relieving to me to realize that.
She said again that I seem to have the idea that a hug would *never* happen.
That's because early on she declined, saying that if she thought it would be helpful she would be she didn't think it would be. She later said that it was not a blanket "No" but a response to where I was at that time. She, of course, won't say what would be a good time or reason, or how a hug might be helpful. Good thing because that would really influence me greatly. I tried to figure it out on my own and that didn't work. lol. Then I moved away from idealizing her and the intense desire for a hug subsided.

So seeing the other therapist hug her patient brought it up again.
I was thinking about it today, enjoying a fantasy hug from my T ( ), the fantasy hug was offered by my T unexpectedly and my reaction was a teary Thank You, then a step back and a deeper heart-felt Thank You but I could say no more. I realized then that the desire for a hug right now may be that I wish I could express my gratitude verbally, but I am not able to. The 'why' of that is a whole 'nother expedition

But I know that when I can, I will treasure the words and the ability to express them.
And if a hug, while nice, might keep me from realizing this goal.
Yet the desire for the hug, and fantasizing about it, brought me to the place where I can acknowledge to myself that I want to be able to say Thank You so she hears it and so she feels it - not in a tactile way, but on an emotionally connected level.

What words would your hug represent?

My experience with hugs from my t's has been that it was not initiated by me, but rather offered up to me by my t's as comfort and reassurance, particularly in really bad times. My current t hasn't hugged me often, but when he has he has wrapped me up in his big arms like a bear to reassure me that I would get through this. I guess I've never been one to ask for or initiate the hugs. So I guess my t's "words" through their hugs have been "You are going to be okay."

[skysblue]

Can't answer your question - I am all words. No desire for a hug. She's there and I'm here. I like the 'psychic' connection rather than the physical one. But then again, she's trying to get me into my body so who knows what the future holds.

There are a lot of really interesting thoughts in this post.

I first think about my own history of hugging. My mom is really the only huggy person in my family, and her hugs are like her personality, warm and caring. One of my brothers is an ***, and the other is a sweetheart. Both their wives are great, and I hug both of them. My nephews (guess who their dad is) barely speak to me and I think they'd about die if I hugged them, but I hug and goof around with my nieces all the time.

I'm kind of a moderately huggy person. I do think that I usually don't initiate hugging because I'm super paranoid about hugging someone when they don't want it, but I freely give hugs when my friends initiate it. I'll often initiate moderate physical contact, like nudging the arm, putting a hand on the shoulder, of people that I know. I'm very affectionate with my son and usually with my husband, who probably initiates way more hugs than I do. I have a client in prison (I'm a lawyer) who hugs me coming and going and tells me she loves me and has for years. I'm not sure how that go started, but I'm okay with it. I'm sure many of my colleagues would say it's unlawyerly or that it represents some problem with boundaries, but I am quite sure there is no boundary issue unless you consider caring about people as wrong. And I hugged another client of mine (also incarcerated) for the first time in the 3 years that I worked with her. I just felt like it in the moment, I was standing right next to her and said, is it okay if I hug you and she said please. I do felt I communicated something in that moment that I couldn't say directly, like reassurance and hope and just a solid sense that she really mattered to me, and so did her case.

See, it's much less threatening to talk about hugging in the context of the work I do. If I think about it from the perspective that you've shared, it's not so clear to me. The most adult and professional part of me says, hugging is for babies just starting therapy, I don't want or need a hug from my T, I am so WAY beyond that. [you can wipe off your computer screen now from your snort].

It's really interesting to me to think about your questions because for you it seems to be about what you would give to your T through a hug, not what she would give to you. I think about hugging as getting something from him, maybe something I do not want (more closeness, more connection) or something I do want (comfort, safety) or just . . . . more.

Sorry that I didn't exactly answer your question. I don't always do well following instructions.

Anne

[SoupDragon]

I longingly look at those who can freely hug - it seems so natural to them - for me to accept and enjoy a hug from my T, I would need to be a completely different person. I struggle totally with understanding intimacy and the difference between hugs and sex - I know hugging my T would be too confusing for me.

So do I desire them? I understand that I have a distorted view and that for some (most?) people, hugs are just a deep connection / understanding / friendship / warmth and for those people I think hugs do replace words such as I care about you, I am pleased to see you, you are in my heart. But for me hugs are perceived as "Wonder what boundaries I can cross?" and I feel a need to watch out for what's coming next - so in summary I guess the answer is yes hugs do replace words, but the hugger and hugged may be hearing different words from the hug.

[skysblue]

Me and my friends greet and depart each other with hugs. Sometimes the hugs linger and feel very close and intimate. I like that. My in-laws are European and whereas we would greet them with a hug, they do 3 cheek pecks. I'm definitely not comfortable with that because I never know which cheek to start with and it feels less close than a hug. So, we usually stall out and do a dance -
Me: going for the hug
Them: going for the cheek
Me: uh oh - puckered lips coming my way.
Them: uh oh, big arms coming my way
Me: what to do now? shift the feet, change the angle, do the sidestep, hope we don't crash and fall
Them: same...

But hugging my T? Not a chance. It seems way too intimate and meaningful.

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

So do I desire them? I understand that I have a distorted view and that for some (most?) people, hugs are just a deep connection / understanding / friendship / warmth and for those people I think hugs do replace words such as I care about you, I am pleased to see you, you are in my heart. .........the answer is yes hugs do replace words, but the hugger and hugged may be hearing different words from the hug.

Soup - for not accepting or giving hugs you sure have an accurate description of what they might mean. I'd been reading through the posts trying to think about what my hugs meant then I read your post and said - "What She Said!" - And then the reminder that the meaning is probably different for each person in the hug. Thanks.

[granite1]

i think for me it would be something like

Hi i'm here and ok .other than that i dont thnk it would say anythng else

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Me and my friends greet and depart each other with hugs. Sometimes the hugs linger and feel very close and intimate. I like that. My in-laws are European and whereas we would greet them with a hug, they do 3 cheek pecks. I'm definitely not comfortable with that because I never know which cheek to start with and it feels less close than a hug. So, we usually stall out and do a dance -
Me: going for the hug
Them: going for the cheek
Me: uh oh - puckered lips coming my way.
Them: uh oh, big arms coming my way
Me: what to do now? shift the feet, change the angle, do the sidestep, hope we don't crash and fall
Them: same...

But hugging my T? Not a chance. It seems way too intimate and meaningful.

Oh yes the three kiss thing - - I think I have learned that most people go for the right hand side cheek first - took me a while to figure out, but now testing my theory on a couple of occasions I seem to have cracked it.

And if I were ever able to give / accept a hug from T, knowing it was just a hug from one person to another, to feel relaxed about it and not to question it or have to analyse it - then I think I would have made it on my journey.

[dinosaurs]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I was thinking about it today, enjoying a fantasy hug from my T ( ), the fantasy hug was offered by my T unexpectedly and my reaction was a teary Thank You, then a step back and a deeper heart-felt Thank You but I could say no more. I realized then that the desire for a hug right now may be that I wish I could express my gratitude verbally, but I am not able to. The 'why' of that is a whole 'nother expedition

But I know that when I can, I will treasure the words and the ability to express them.

thanks so much for this thread. i think what you say is so true - i had just never seen it that way before. i know for me the fantasy hugs are always initiated by me, never t. and they're always at times where i'm full of love for him or full of gratitude in how he has helped me. both of which are incredibly hard for me to say or even to find the words for. words seem insufficient to express what i'm feeling. so i definately think for me the hug is to replace those words.

thank you for giving me something to think about!

[Butterflies Are Free]

Thanks for starting this post. I wrote a letter to my T this week and said, "Sometimes, your hugs say more to me than words ever could. Your hugs mean that you care about me and want to comfort me. They tell me that you accept me, all of me, as well as my thoughts and feelings. They also tell me that you are not repulsed or afraid of my body and that you want to connect with me because you know how much it helps me. Your hugs mean that you see the real me."

[rainbow8]

Thanks, ECHOES. I'm glad there's another thread on hugs! I feel like SoupdDragon about hugs. They're intimate and I wonder why they are "allowed". My T is the one who initiated them with me. I want to enjoy the touching if I can accept that it's all right. To me, holding my T's hand is less intimate because it's just 1 hand. Hugs mean your bodies, maybe, are touching and isn't that too intimate? See how confused I am!!

At the end of the session sometimes my T offers to hug me as a way of saying we're connected even though the session is over. Holding her hand is different. It's a way for me to feel safe, calm, and secure.

a hug from t would mean he is not repulsed by me...

i just think sometimes that after i leave his office, he can not spray enough lysol to kill all the badness away and with a hug it feels like the only thing on his mind would be to hurry home and take a shower to remove everything bad....

sorry so down right now!!! on a pity party...

i do love hugging my kids and i am huggy at work... so with t, i think he just knows to much about me and that is the scary part

[crazycanbegood]

=

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by jbmomg

a hug from t would mean he is not repulsed by me... i just think sometimes that after i leave his office, he can not spray enough lysol to kill all the badness away and with a hug it feels like the only thing on his mind would be to hurry home and take a shower to remove everything bad....

I could have written this.
My T knows that sometimes I want to give her a hug when I leave; the one that I give to her is an expression of thanks that words could not encompass ... but since you put this into words jbm maybe I will stop.

I wonder also if this about testing T to see if our need for touch is something she/he can survive. Infact if "we" can survive it. I wonder if not receiving the hug but talking it through would be more beneficial? I have the feeling that I would be somehow "disappointed" after the "hug", feeling that what I really am wanting has been "swept" away again, when really I want someone that Isn't' afraid of my desires and will sit with them rather than "play into" them? Sometimes what I think I want isn't. Theres more underneath I am wanting besides the actual physical contact.

[Fuzzybear]

I think a hug from a T might mean for me something like
"I care about you, you're special to me and I appreciate you"
or it might show a special connection, in that moment...

[sittingatwatersedge]

hi Echoes................................

I always thought there should be no physical contact in therapy apart from a handshake. I thought that type of thing wasn't allowed.

[Wren_]

(((Echoes)))

I do not enjoy casual hugs at all. I have family who hug coming and going and it is meaningless to me. Diluted, I guess.

I don't like casual hugs either; the half-hearted half hugs some people give, partly because the few times I've had them it's been from people I don't really know at all ... pushy ladies in public places and felt meaningless as far as not being about caring; and felt intrusive and I get triggered and block them out.

Something I noticed today in re-reading what you wrote is that there is a difference between giving a hug and being given a hug; and so much difference also in the kind of hug being exchanged. If I was the one giving a hug; firstly the world might come to an end in such an unlikely thing taking place, but after that the words would be "I really really trust and care about you beyond the depth of my fears and am giving you a gift that I don't really know how to give" ... something like that anyway.

If someone gave me one (a real one) it would say things like "I care"; "I'm here"; "I accept you"; "I'm not scared of you"; "you can trust me"

[rainbow8]

My T's hug today was disappointing. I think she was trying to show me how she usually hugs clients. It was a planned hug, at my request after I asked why it's all right to touch and hug. I asked her if hugging me was "icky" for her and she said no. That made me feel better. But the hug was not satisfying, and she told me that holding hands was better for me.

I think if I was in distress and needed a hug, it would feel better. A hug good-bye would still be nice. At least it didn't feel icky to me this time because it was so short I don't even remember it!

earthmamma, what you say is thought-provoking. I think there's a lot of truth in it, especially after my feeling disppointed with the hug today. It's not so much about the hug but about being accepted by my T no matter how "icky" I think I am. I like that about wanting someone who isn't afraid of your desires and can talk through them.

[crazycanbegood]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

My T's hug today was disappointing. I think she was trying to show me how she usually hugs clients. It was a planned hug, at my request after I asked why it's all right to touch and hug. I asked her if hugging me was "icky" for her and she said no. That made me feel better. But the hug was not satisfying, and she told me that holding hands was better for me.

I am with your T on this. While hugs can be a great way to say hi/bye, 'I care", and "I love," there's nothing like some hand-holding, especially with squeezing, to say "I am here for you and I am not letting you go."

[crazycanbegood]

Rainbow, in addition to hugging and handholding, I like to . Just ask skysblue. Crazy rainbow

[sunrise]

For me, I don't think hugs replace words as my T and I are both very verbal. I think they make concrete the abstractness of words and feelings. My T and I share reciprocal hugs. They are definitely not something only he gives to me or I only give to him--it's always mutual. Originally my T initiated them, as I didn't know that therapists and clients hugged each other so it wouldn't have occurred to me to initiate. Now we're pretty much in tune and initiate simultaneously.

Originally Posted by ECHOES

What words would your hug represent?

I think if our hugs could speak, they would be saying something like, "hmmmm, we're close."

Originally Posted by ECHOES

But I know that when I can, I will treasure the words and the ability to express them.
And if a hug, while nice, might keep me from realizing this goal.

This is interesting because the words did come first for me and my T. I never thought about hugging until we did. Before that happened, we had already used words to express what the hugs are a physical representation of (our closeness, our bond, our emotional intimacy). So, yes, I think it may be helpful to use your words first, then move on to the physical. I wonder now if perhaps it was deliberate that my T didn't hug me until we had reached that level of closeness and communication with words? ECHOES, I think it is great you want to get there with words first.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by crazycanbegood

I am with your T on this. While hugs can be a great way to say hi/bye, 'I care", and "I love," there's nothing like some hand-holding, especially with squeezing, to say "I am here for you and I am not letting you go."

I don't think I've ever held hands with anyone. And I'm sure I'll never hug nor hold hands with my T and I have no interest in that either. So, if I don't have that desire, does it mean something?