[Chopin99]

After my hard but decent session yesterday, I was taken aback by something this morning. I sent this email (we did not discuss email parameters yesterday):

I realize I should have asked this yesterday; I had it written down to ask, but we never got to my journal. I am going to be alone this weekend; Jeff is working, Angie and Nathan are out of town, and Mel can't help me right now. Add to that the stress of being on-call for work and processing session yesterday, I'm afraid of going to a dark place.

May I email you as I process so I feel I'm connected to someone? Will you read? I will not expect any replies. If you tell me no, I respect and accept that. I trust that you will decide based on what is in my best interest.

I care about you and I genuinely felt bad when you said my clinginess made you feel uncomfortable. I have little concept of boundaries, so it's a small step, but a step nonetheless. When you told me you made yourself uncomfortable because you thought it was what was best for me, it simultaneously warmed and broke my heart. Right or wrong, I don't think I'm worth that kind of sacrifice. It was one of those moments similar to when you told me I was worth more than the risks.

Her exact response from start to finish: No emails

WTF??!! Not "I don't think it's in your best interest for you to email me" or I'm sorry, but I have to say no"

Is it her or me? Is she being a b i t c h or am I reacting too much?

[Silent_tsol]

I haven't kept up with what's all going on. Have you emailed in the past - I suspect yes because you had her email? I'm sorry you got such a short reply. Can you type emails "to someone" but only pretend they are reading and not replying and not actually send them?

This is one of the reasons for no emails. No matter what they say, it isn't right or isn't enough. She did answer your question. Resist the temptation to make her response another issue. If she gave you a longer response, the answer would still be the same.

[unaluna]

No offense, but your emails are too long and flowery. "Composed." (hence Chopin?!) Either you are a really really really good writer naturally, or you are spending too much time putting the words together, and I think THAT'S really the point she was trying to make with her little two-seater there, sometimes less is more. It's like she doesn't want you planning to spend your time that way, going down in mood? Does that make sense?

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

No offense, but your emails are too long and flowery. "Composed." Either you are a really really really good writer naturally, or you are spending too much time putting the words together, and I think THAT'S really the point she was trying to make with her little two-seater there, sometimes less is more. It's like she doesn't want you planning to spend your time that way, going down in mood? Does that make sense?

Actually, that is the way I tend to write. Read some of my posts here. It's one of the reasons I received the promotion at work; my written skills.

I think she is just succinctly stating a new boundary. I waited 1.5 hours before posting this and 2 hours to send my reply so that I was responding, not reacting:

I am angered as I do not see how your curt reply was in my best interest. It feels punishing, but I suppose you were simply stating your boundaries and I will abide.

[granite1]

chopin,ouch i bet that hurt.i know that you have said that you have issues with boundaries and that is something you both need to work on.it seems e-mails is a big boundary for her and you have kept on e-mailing her so maybe she feels like she needs to be a bit sterner to help get the message through.i don't know but maybe she feels if she lightens the message by saying i may not be a good idea,or something less stern may not get the message through.kind of a tough love thingdoes she allow phone calls.for specific reasons the only out of session contact i am allowed is calls. i know it is hard to talk on the phone sometimes but is this an option??

when my T finely said no e-mail and then also no written letters in the mail it had to be stern because i seemed to always think just this once should be OK.it wasn't in my best interest.anyway it stung and hurt and shook me up i described it as this
it was like a horse kept in a field surrounded by an electric fence,the horse is kept safe and allowed to go far and do as he pleases within these boundaries.but the horse isn't at first aware of the fence and the boundaries.until one day the horse gets to close and zap,confused hurt and not understanding . and this happens a few times until the horse understands these boundaries.and it hurt every time it was run up against.even though these were put to keep it safe it was hard to understand at first.kind of like the boundaries my T put on me.

sorry if i was so long winded and off base here just want to say i so know boundaries hurt but are necessary at times for the safety of both parties

[roads]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Actually, that is the way I tend to write. Read some of my posts here. It's one of the reasons I received the promotion at work; my written skills.

I think she is just succinctly stating a new boundary. I waited 1.5 hours before posting this and 2 hours to send my reply so that I was responding, not reacting:

I am angered as I do not see how your curt reply was in my best interest. It feels punishing, but I suppose you were simply stating your boundaries and I will abide.

She said "No emails" & you "abide" by sending an email??!

... words fail me ...

[granite1]

and you e-mailed again .it is so hard

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by granite1

chopin,ouch i bet that hurt.i know that you have said that you have issues with boundaries and that is something you both need to work on.it seems e-mails is a big boundary for her and you have kept on e-mailing her so maybe she feels like she needs to be a bit sterner to help get the message through.i don't know but maybe she feels if she lightens the message by saying i may not be a good idea,or something less stern may not get the message through.kind of a tough love thingdoes she allow phone calls.for specific reasons the only out of session contact i am allowed is calls. i know it is hard to talk on the phone sometimes but is this an option??

when my T finely said no e-mail and then also no written letters in the mail it had to be stern because i seemed to always think just this once should be OK.it wasn't in my best interest.anyway it stung and hurt and shook me up i described it as this
it was like a horse kept in a field surrounded by an electric fence,the horse is kept safe and allowed to go far and do as he pleases within these boundaries.but the horse isn't at first aware of the fence and the boundaries.until one day the horse gets to close and zap,confused hurt and not understanding . and this happens a few times until the horse understands these boundaries.and it hurt every time it was run up against.even though these were put to keep it safe it was hard to understand at first.kind of like the boundaries my T put on me.

sorry if i was so long winded and off base here just want to say i so know boundaries hurt but are necessary at times for the safety of both parties

That's a really good way of describing it granite. Thank you, that helps me a lot! She has never offered to let me call. If I call, it has to be to the office to leave a message with the receptionist (the T's have no voicemails, just the receptionist). They close at 2pm on Fridays, so it wouldn't help.

I believe she's trying to break a cycle for me. Leave session okay, go home, and have a crisis a day later. I just wish we had gotten a chance to discuss it in session.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by Roadie

She said "No emails" & you "abide" by sending an email??!

... words fail me ...

Originally Posted by granite1

and you e-mailed again .it is so hard

Yes, I know. I'm pathetic. I don't know why she wastes her time on me.

I guess maybe I see this a little differently than some. You all had a bit of a rupture and it was traumatic--whether you made it more traumatic than it was or not, this is the reality. I also don't see long vs. short emails being the problem (and it's just *you* to write long emails--no judgment necessary). Clearly, email is a big point of contention for you all and one that needs to be worked out pronto. It seems that she is unwilling to budge and I hope that you can have a conversation that goes more than "Her: No emails, period, end of discussion." Emailing with a T is very important to me. This was a big problem with my last T (would never respond) and my new T (like my previous 2 Ts) will respond and I'm doing much better. As long as it's clear that email doesn't become therapy, but rather just a check in ("Sounds good, thinking of you, let's definitely talk about this situation next time, remember to breathe," etc.) this is helpful to the client, in my opinion. Rigid boundaries aren't reality and aren't healthy--how are we, people who struggle with boundaries, to learn moderation if it's all or nothing? I've learned infinitely more about this from Ts who have allowed me to email and will respond briefly. This all depends on the person's specific issues and what the T is OK with, but for me, it has been infinitely important to have a T who does allow and respond to my emails. At first her responses seemed short, but now her 10-15 words in response to a page long email ARE enough. But I had to learn this through the process of her emailing back.

I, too, am worried about her statement of your clinginess made her uncomfortable--you need to be able to completely be yourself and know that how you are is OK (even if you want to make some tweaks) and you're not too much for a T. A T is a person, but your relationship is therapeutic, not a friendship, and she first needs to help you to believe that you're worthy and loveable just as you are. She needs to meet you where you are at this moment. Your goal might be/probably is changing certain behaviors, but she needs to interact with you where you are and not where she/you wants you to be.

I read what you wrote last night and I still would proceed cautiously... Her bluntness, as you put it, is causing a problem for you that you feel like you need to reach out to clarify. This, in my opinion, isn't you it's her not allowing time at the end of the session, for example, to go back over anything that gave you pause or just to try to be more comfortable with her phrasing. Relationships, not matter what type, are work and a struggle, but a therapy relationship is to ultimately help the client. Pushing can be good, but it's a fine line of too much pushing...

Just my thoughts. And me being someone who completely has been in this place of needing email and needing responses and not getting them and having it be detrimental to me.

Ouch! It was a tad blunt perhaps, but I think she was just trying to be direct so you couldn't misinterpret or misunderstand, so there was no wiggle room - and I thought she'd expressed her views about emails before? (maybe I remember that wrong.)

But oh Chopin, you emailed again after that?! What we gon' do with you?
(I'd probably do the same thing though, to be fair )

Ps: I happen to like your flowery written skills!

[Screenager]

Wow, that is a rather blunt response... and so terribly short. I haven't e-mailed my T very often so far, but she always replied with "Dear ...." and at least a few sentences. Even if there's not much time, I don't think an answer this short is handling the situation well, especially if the T knows they're dealing with someone very sensitive.

I'd react the same way and I'd probably panic and e-mail again as well, so I'm not judging you there.

ETA: I think I'd even prefer the T not answering at all and instead talking about this once more in session than sending a reply like that that's perceived as hurtful.

[lostmyway21]

Originally Posted by Screenager

Wow, that is a rather blunt response... and so terribly short. I haven't e-mailed my T very often so far, but she always replied with "Dear ...." and at least a few sentences. Even if there's not much time, I don't think an answer this short is handling the situation well, especially if the T knows they're dealing with someone very sensitive.

I'd react the same way and I'd probably panic and e-mail again as well, so I'm not judging you there.

ETA: I think I'd even prefer the T not answering at all and instead talking about this once more in session than sending a reply like that that's perceived as hurtful.

I agree. I think she would have been better off not emailing back and then discussing it in session. Not judging you for emailing back. If I got that response I probably would have done the same, if not more.

[ECHOES]

"Is it me or her" you ask. It is both of you, in that she is free to respond as she wishes and you are free to have whatever feelings you have about her response. It is so understandable that her brief response would be disappointing.

[granite1]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Yes, I know. I'm pathetic. I don't know why she wastes her time on me.

because you are so worth it and worth her time.you are an awsome and caring person with a lot to offer this world and people like you are few

[Perna]

Why make an additional problem; you asked a question, she gave you an answer. That you don't like the answer or mode of answering is neither here nor there. It sounds like you had a hidden agenda under your words, other than wanting to know the answer to "can I email you or not".

[ECHOES]

If you tell me no, I respect and accept that.

Ok

Yes, I know. I'm pathetic. I don't know why she wastes her time on me.
________________

No you aren't, not a bit. This is new to you. Her reply was startling, shocking.

Your email was fine. I'm sorry that she doesn't to emails though.

I have so many ways in which I looked at this. First of all-you are not pathetic. And you are worth it.

As far as the email goes-I think she's maybe testing you-to see if you could stand her reply was enough, but then you replied to her again? and maybe that's where you should have left it alone? Maybe Her telling you "no emails" was her acting in your best interest therapeutically. She may be trying to teach you something. Maybe it ties into your last session with her saying physically clinging onto her was uncomfortable for her-but she let herself be uncomfortable for you. Maybe now-she's trying to teach you that it's not going to be that way anymore-so her boundary clearly stated at least for this weekend is NO EMAILS. Like maybe she's just trying to say "Hey Chopin, I did that for you, but now let me show you a middle ground on boundaries" I dont't know... It's just my thoughts. Sorry your hurt. Process here at PC. Just type emails and save them as drafts and print them out for session-but don't send her anything until you can clear this up next session-

[unaluna]

Yo! (which means young'un) - I DO read everything you write. I just still don't get how you would KNOW ahead of time that you would need to write an email. And therefore, I AM saying that yes, it is not a good use of a T's time to have them read a list of your friends' names who are out of town. uzzled:

The - rather, "a" - woman who fired me, wrote a document copied out of a manual of HOW to write a computer spec, instead of actually writing the user requirements. She kept her job because she was shtupping the VP. So until I get a Pulitzer for my writing, I think notes to T's should be short.

Don't give me this 'why does she put up with me" - now you sound like MY mother! That's not good!

Lots of good advice from the masses here. And hey, what are we, chopped liver? You can't write to us?

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by eastcoaster

Pushing can be good, but it's a fine line of too much pushing...

This was kinda how I see it. She used to be not pushy enough, now she's pushing too hard. We need to find some common ground and I'm taking my first steps toward that (I hope) by doing what she said. I'm processing. I've been writing for the last hour about triggers and what it reminds me of from the past. Then I'll figure out what I want to do about that. It may be as simple as talking to her next session. Thanks eastcoaster!

Originally Posted by just_some_girl

Ouch! It was a tad blunt perhaps, but I think she was just trying to be direct so you couldn't misinterpret or misunderstand, so there was no wiggle room - and I thought she'd expressed her views about emails before? (maybe I remember that wrong.)

But oh Chopin, you emailed again after that?! What we gon' do with you?
(I'd probably do the same thing though, to be fair

Ps: I happen to like your flowery written skills!

She's usually blunt by email, but not THAT blunt. I was given her email address in October. I was able to use it until December, during our first rupture, then she restored the privilege about a month later. She has been fine until last week. I think she doesn't mind email as long as I keep it short and allow her to reply as she pleases. She tends to reply more often than not. Last week, I sent too many long emails and reminded me that she was standing by her boundaries. Thing is, I really don't know what that means...she hasn't defined them. Thanks, JSG!

Originally Posted by Screenager

Wow, that is a rather blunt response... and so terribly short. I haven't e-mailed my T very often so far, but she always replied with "Dear ...." and at least a few sentences. Even if there's not much time, I don't think an answer this short is handling the situation well, especially if the T knows they're dealing with someone very sensitive.

I'd react the same way and I'd probably panic and e-mail again as well, so I'm not judging you there.

ETA: I think I'd even prefer the T not answering at all and instead talking about this once more in session than sending a reply like that that's perceived as hurtful.

She hasn't answered my reply and her workday is over, so I know she's not going to. I'm actually relieved in some ways, but the first time it was taken away, she threatened termination at the same time, so I'm just a bit triggered. Thanks Screenager!

Originally Posted by lostmyway21

I agree. I think she would have been better off not emailing back and then discussing it in session. Not judging you for emailing back. If I got that response I probably would have done the same, if not more.

I actually think so too. I actually would have preferred silence to that response. She probably felt she had to because if she were silent, I'd keep emailing. Thanks lostmyway!

Originally Posted by ECHOES

"Is it me or her" you ask. It is both of you, in that she is free to respond as she wishes and you are free to have whatever feelings you have about her response. It is so understandable that her brief response would be disappointing.

Very true. It is us. Thanks ECHOES!

Originally Posted by granite1

because you are so worth it and worth her time.you are an awsome and caring person with a lot to offer this world and people like you are few

granite, you made me cry. Thank you!

Originally Posted by Perna

Why make an additional problem; you asked a question, she gave you an answer. That you don't like the answer or mode of answering is neither here nor there. It sounds like you had a hidden agenda under your words, other than wanting to know the answer to "can I email you or not".

Really didn't have a hidden agenda. I respect the answer. I guess I feel "punished" for even asking due to her bluntness...right or wrong. Thanks Perna!

Originally Posted by ECHOES

No you aren't, not a bit. This is new to you. Her reply was startling, shocking.

Your email was fine. I'm sorry that she doesn't to emails though.

AAARGH...she did do emails. I need some boundaries that don't freaking change!!!!! That's the origin of the first rupture I had in December...overly flexible boundaries.

Originally Posted by TryinToGetBy

I have so many ways in which I looked at this. First of all-you are not pathetic. And you are worth it.

As far as the email goes-I think she's maybe testing you-to see if you could stand her reply was enough, but then you replied to her again? and maybe that's where you should have left it alone? Maybe Her telling you "no emails" was her acting in your best interest therapeutically. She may be trying to teach you something. Maybe it ties into your last session with her saying physically clinging onto her was uncomfortable for her-but she let herself be uncomfortable for you. Maybe now-she's trying to teach you that it's not going to be that way anymore-so her boundary clearly stated at least for this weekend is NO EMAILS. Like maybe she's just trying to say "Hey Chopin, I did that for you, but now let me show you a middle ground on boundaries" I dont't know... It's just my thoughts. Sorry your hurt. Process here at PC. Just type emails and save them as drafts and print them out for session-but don't send her anything until you can clear this up next session-

I'm not sending her s**t!! Thanks for thinking I'm not pathetic and worth it, TTGB!

Originally Posted by hankster

Yo! (which means young'un) - I DO read everything you write. I just still don't get how you would KNOW ahead of time that you would need to write an email. And therefore, I AM saying that yes, it is not a good use of a T's time to have them read a list of your friends' names who are out of town.

The - rather, "a" - woman who fired me, wrote a document copied out of a manual of HOW to write a computer spec, instead of actually writing the user requirements. She kept her job because she was shtupping the VP. So until I get a Pulitzer for my writing, I think notes to T's should be short.

Don't give me this 'why does she put up with me" - now you sound like MY mother! That's not good!

Lots of good advice from the masses here. And hey, what are we, chopped liver? You can't write to us?

I was asking for permission in case. I'm getting really borderline with T...I love her, I hate her. I hate being so freaking screwed up!

Oh, I'll write here...and probably go overboard again! And dammit...I was so p****d I left people's names in my post. Crap.

Thanks Hankster!

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I was asking for permission in case. I'm getting really borderline with T...I love her, I hate her. I hate being so freaking screwed up!

You are not screwed up!!! Everything you're thinking/feeling is just fine and where you are right now. You were right above, the first step is recognizing that you have difficulties with boundaries--good job! Now you take steps 2-10 (OK, maybe not that many), some of them non-linear. If T is continually triggering this feeling of inadequacy, not good...

Please have fun this weekend--do some stuff to distract yourself!

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by eastcoaster

You are not screwed up!!! Everything you're thinking/feeling is just fine and where you are right now. You were right above, the first step is recognizing that you have difficulties with boundaries--good job! Now you take steps 2-10 (OK, maybe not that many), some of them non-linear. If T is continually triggering this feeling of inadequacy, not good...

Please have fun this weekend--do some stuff to distract yourself!

Well, I already knew I have problems with boundaries. She wants me to take the next steps.

Might not have much choice...I'm on call for work. Then again, I've been at work now for 4.5 hours and I've only been an hour's worth of productive.

P.S. T says we're all screwed up. Her included.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

P.S. T says we're all screwed up. Her included.

What does it "mean" to be screwed up if everyone is? Feels like being only a little bit pregnant; "I'm only a little bit screwed up./"Well, I'm a lot screwed up!"

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Her exact response from start to finish: No emails

WTF??!! Not "I don't think it's in your best interest for you to email me" or I'm sorry, but I have to say no"

Is it her or me? Is she being a b i t c h or am I reacting too much?

I sympathise with you. You are in unbearable pain and desperate need of support.

And yet...

Your T has decided she doesn't want you to send her emails.
She has also decided that she is not going to give you the slightest encouragement.
You break her rule, you get a short, sharp slap in the face.

This is a hurtful decision on her part, but you can't pretend she hasn't made it clear.
This is what she means when she says you don't respect her boundaries.

What your T (and mine!) has failed to do is to say:
"When you feel a need to email me, don't. Instead, why not ..."

I don't know what goes in the blank because my T never told me! But three possibilities are:

1. Go for a walk
2. Write in your journal
3. Tell it to Teddy