[ECHOES]

Has your therapist ever been irritated with you?

Did you call them on it in the moment?

Did you get past it?

It isn't a poll or anything. It's something that happened with me last session.
She explained it and I logically understand it, but... well it's affecting me and making me think it's time to move on.

[Perna]

I had a couple of beers once before a therapy session, mentioned it, and my T got very annoyed and demanded, "is there any point in even having this session?" and I replied "yes" and we had the session but I still felt she was annoyed. I didn't ever do that again.

I guess the biggest upset I had was when we were working hard and then she sniped, "Not if you do what you usually do!" and almost felled me in my tracks. I took it as a criticism, that I was not able to change and kept doing that sort of interaction the same, wrong way. It took me all weekend to realize that she was "warning" me and that is was in fact time to fish or cut bait.

I tried from then on to not look at the other person's irritation but at the possible pearl forming? :-) Only a person who cares gets frustrated with you and, usually, they have a point. Standing on one's head or doing whatever one can to get that point, knowing that it hasn't been grasped before and is what is causing the frustration (not "Me", my behavior) and experimenting with doing "exactly" what T is saying (in my case, the opposite of what I normally did, which was shut down), just trying and stumbling along because it is new and one is sure one is going to die from doing it helped me enormously.

[stopdog]

I would not think so, but if she ever did I would call her on it. I pay, I leave on time, and I do not stalk her. Other than I cannot imagine what there would be for a therapist to be irritated about. If the one I see did get irritated, I think I would tell her to back the hell off and remind her it is my life not hers.

[skysblue]

Oh yes - it's been a major underlying feeling for months now. When my T got annoyed with me last year, we did talk about it later. See, she never said anything at the moment and it didn't register consciously in my brain that she was annoyed at the moment either.

Only later did I interpret her expression as annoyance. I called her on it a few weeks later and she admitted it. She also explained it and I was feeling better about it. It would seem that it was resolved.

But my brain still could not shake the experience and one year later I gave her a poem that expressed my feelings at that moment. Even though it's a year later and we've been doing some good work this past year, I know that we'll still have to discuss that moment again of her annoyance.

The thing is - it's my issue. I know it's my issue, not hers. And it ties in to my deep fear of 'getting into trouble'. So exploring more my reaction to 'getting into trouble' with her will be therapeutic - even a year later.

[carla.cdt]

my therapists in the past did get irritated sometime and were quite open about it. I didn't have a problem with it. There are human and are allowed to feel whatever they are feeling.
I would have had a problem though if they would have denied it even if clearly they were frustrated. If my behavior is frustrating them, it probably frustrated others in my life, so I need them to tell me and be honest about it.
Carla

[Perna]

Echoes, check out this about counter-transference; could it be she is just reflecting how you feel?

http://books.google.com/books?id=FAe...itated&f=false

[rainboots87]

Kinda. I had a tough therapy session a few weeks ago and was really shutting down. And like typical me, I asked if she was mad at me. She replied that if I could engage in the conversation with her, she'd address my question. So, I managed to look back up at her, and she went on to explain about my "therapy interfering behaviors" and how she felt frustrated. It was tough to hear, but I know she really cares about me.

[stopdog]

Having reflected upon your questions more,my other response to the therapist getting irritated (and letting me know - the therapist could well have been irritated but not let me know) would be "good. I am glad you are feeling irritated." I could see myself being pleased I had irritated her.

I know that pushing at my therapist and trying to get her irritated and frustrated was and sometimes still is a BIG issue for me. It's something old and deeply entrenched in me. As a teen, I took great pride in the fact that I could irritate and frustrate the adults around me. It was my way of knowing that I was having an effect on them, forcing them to deal with me. It was negative attention and I loved it! I would go out of my way to provoke that kind of response from the adults in my life.

When I started therapy, I would frequently inquire if my therapist was frustrated or irritated with my responses or lack of change. I WANTED that warped validation that I was making that "familiar" impact upon her. I didn't know how to be anything other than irritating The need is lessening but I always find myself sliding backwards into old behaviors when I'm stressed.

[elliemay]

Sure my therapist has gotten irritated with me. There were times when I was just outright horrible to him. Just horrible. I cringe at the way I behaved when all this guy was trying to do was help me. In those instances his irritation didn't bother me at all.

Other times however, I felt as though I did nothing at all to provoke it. One time, he left some writings from another patient in the waiting room by accident. I didn't know what they were and didn't even pick them up. He saw them, and me there, and demanded to know if I looked at them at all and to be honest. He was quite agitated. We had a little spat about his reaction.

Another time was over insurance. It was all so stupid and such a big misunderstanding, but I ended up bawling like a baby over it. Turned out to be a good thing in the long run - it helped me to identify one of my most powerful and upsetting "triggers".

These have all proven to be just minor bumps in the road, no biggee in the long run.

Do you want to share what happened with your therapist?

Irritated, no. Frustrated, yes. I do see the two differently.

I have always found his frustration to be completely justified.

I have had no problem getting past it. I've always been able to see it as pointed specifically at a behavior, not a statement about me as a person. Can you maybe look at it as a specific moment or situation than a broad comment about you as a person?

No she hasn't. I've been in a deep transference and acted as if she was just about too and pushed and pushed her, but it never happens.

[ECHOES]

Thank you for your replies.
Okay. I don't post much about me or my therapy...

This is how it was: ("This is how it was" is from a humorous book I'm reading, "My Russian Grandmother and Her American Vacuum Cleaner" by Meir Shalev.)
It is long, but I tend to just delete when I try to edit, so I will leave it be.


She was irritate with me, and yes that is absolutely true that we are separate and she can feel what she feels. Still, she is the person that I look to be my safe haven.

I do this dance around things. I say to her that something is important to me, then deny it.
I say to her that I can't stand to be alone, wail (privately) that I'm all alone, then tell her I don't want or need people, I just want to learn how to be alone with myself and feel good and content.
I say *this* is important to me, then we explore that, then afterwards I say she doesn't get me.

This time I realized that I hadn't told her everything about what we had talked about on Thursday. Over the weekend, I was in and out of meltdown. I emailed and she sent a nice reply, "It sounds so hard and discouraging,and I want very much to hear you as much as I can."
The meltdown was because I "heard" her as saying that all I need to do was go out and make friends. This is what I heard repeatedly growing up, and it was about my mother not about me. I had friends but not enough for her; basically I was still there underfoot and she wanted me to have someplace else to be.

So, I was thinking over that weekend "Gosh, here I am finishing up 5 years of therapy and I'm hearing what I heard all my life! By the time I got in there on Monday, I knew what I had done that previous session. I'd told her about seeing a former neighbor on fb who I wasn't very close with, and from her posts I see now I thought that we might have been friends had things been a little different. So, we explored the idea of friendships.

What I hadn't told her, though, was that initially when I saw the fb posts by this person, I was in awe of the fact that she goes out and does what she wants to do. She enjoys the parks and goes there often, and some other local things there. (BTW, I very, very much regret leaving that area and moving here 9 years ago.)

So when I went to see T on Monday, after my initial "I don't know what to talk about" and an "I don't know" answer to a question about the email, I told her what my weekend meltdown was about. After 5 years of therapy, it felt like I was hearing what I'd always heard growing up. I also told her that I realized after session that I hadn't told her about feeling in awe of the former neighbor being able to do what she wants to do, by herself or with others.

T said something about working on the obstacles that stand in the way of what I want. THAT felt like someone else's therapy, like CBT or something - we have never talked in those kinds of terms. I told her then that it felt like she was saying 'pick something to work on, or get out'. It was then that I asked if she was irriatated because I definitely was hearing a 'tone' I don't usually hear with her.

She said she was irritated. That I hadn't told her everything, that I decided she was saying something - that she wasn't at all saying. She was basically defending herself, and understandably so. I was projecting and I was accusing her of something, when all she was doing in that previous session was responding to what I brought in to talk about.

I emailed twice again. Email is fine with her. Replies are brief acknowledgements and encouragements and I appreciate them. The first reply was that my email was beautifully poetic
and that " I worried about the efforts of my irritation on you, but glad to hear you survived."
No I didn't mis-type. She replies from her phone and I trust that "efforts" was meant to be "effects".
Regardless, see that sure didn't help.
I emailed her back that I survived but it's still effecting me. Some of what I told her is that it was hard to take, frightening and she already intimdates me. And that I don't like when I am inconsistent and say something is important, then deny that it is. I told her how I've accepted what I thought was inevitable, and turned that into a decision that I made for myself. Like being so lonely, then deciding it is the way it is, then declaring it is my choice.
She replied that we'll talk Monday and she's glad I had the courage to bring it up.

This just feels really uncomfortable at the moment because I already have trouble expressing myself and now I've irritated her with it. When will it pop up again?

[northgirl]

I can definitely sense irritation when I tend to contradict myself in how I really feel about things. My T just acts confused, which makes me feel really stupid sometimes. I think that's why I sometimes just say what my T wants to hear, though I try not to.

[ClementineK]

Dr. L has been irritated a few times, especially when I was really trying for it LOL. But mostly only in my messed up little imagination.

Once she was, and I don't remember why. I was upset, and then when I got to my car was *really* upset. I had sensed that she was really frustrated and then realized she'd "kicked me out" about 15 minutes early. I asked her about it and she admitted that she must have been, and would think about it.

**Trigger for SI****

Another time, I had done some fairly serious self-injury, and when asked, admitted it. Now, I had done it over 24 hours prior, and it was no acute emergency. She'd never reacted this way before. She insisted not only that if I did not go straight to the ER, she would call ERS, but also insisted that I leave immediately to do so. I felt that my state of mind was more of an emergency, and that I needed her help with this. I felt very hurt, and I'm not sure I ever really told her this. I may have been wrong but it still hurt.

[stopdog]

Echoes - could it be the therapist is trying to let you know that being irritated with each other (or her with you) is not a terrible thing and does not mean catastrophic things about you and/or you and her together?

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by Perna

Echoes, check out this about counter-transference; could it be she is just reflecting how you feel?

http://books.google.com/books?id=FAe...itated&f=false

Thank you Perna.
Maybe I can see it as being the result of feeling freer to be me, not so cautious and measured. That what is going on is more real, and has the potential for learning. Maybe I've evoked this before, but she decided to not be silent about it, so it can be therapeutic.

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Echoes - could it be the therapist is trying to let you know that being irritated with each other (or her with you) is not a terrible thing and does not mean catastrophic things about you and/or you and her together?

Stopdog, I think you are right, that this is part of it. I think it's about many things.
It seemed like it was an honest, in-the-moment reaction. I don't think she would have talked about it if I hadn't asked. (Of course after reading "efforts" in her email, I wondered if that was a Freudian slip or just those darn iPhone's guessing what word you are going for. lol)

[healed84]

I agree with Farmergirl.. T has been frustrated with me (from what I can precieve) the last session we had actually.. I think, more frustrated that I can't see that what he suggests (or other experts) in my are trying to suggest things that will help me.. and I am not convinced of that yet. I am fine with it, I have been frustrated with him too.. Normal part of a relationship I think. We will work it out on Monday, I think.

[sconnie892]

Reading everyone's posts has been very helpful for me. Thanks for sharing.

I'm just gonna vent something related rather than starting another thread...

I am pretty sure T was irritated or frustrated or both with my at the end of our last session. She was very curt the last few minutes of t and it was not at all how we usually end. I wasn't really sure why. Then I added fuel to the fire at the very last minute when I said I stopped my light therapy...and did not have time to fully explain my reasoning. There just had not been opportunity to talk about it before that and I thought she should know. Should have kept my big mouth shut.

As she filled out my appt card, I mentioned something about the rest of the staff in my office having gone out for beers that afternoon but I had been left behind because I had to come to t...and her response was "So now you have to drink before you come see me?" The whole ending was very confusing for me. Then to top it all off I hadn't paid when I arrived and the reception desk was closed at the end. So she had to take my payment and asked if I paid $xxx. I pay $20 less than that. Now I am also worried I am paying the wrong amount! I was almost whispering when I left because I had no idea how to react to all this.

I've been working really hard since then and broke through some walls. I've been trying to focus on how good that felt and ignore what happened at the end of session. I really want to talk about the work when we meet on Wednesday, but I also have this lurking feeling that the ending of last session needs to be discussed first. If I don't bring it up, I am fairly sure she will. I wrote out my thoughts about the work in between sessions and I can always leave that for her to read later, I guess.

My therapist has gotten irritated/frustrated/angry a few times. Its part of having a relationship, so it doesn't bother me. We always work things out right away.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

She said she was irritated. That I hadn't told her everything, that I decided she was saying something - that she wasn't at all saying.

This just feels really uncomfortable at the moment because I already have trouble expressing myself and now I've irritated her with it. When will it pop up again?

I don't think you have irritated her with your difficulties expressing yourself; in "this" instance, you did not tell her everything. That is a discrete difficulty you can work on if you want, asking yourself "have I told her the whole story?" and thinking ahead to make sure you have the "correct" beginning, middle, end to what you are saying.

I have difficulty expressing myself and my husband will often pipe up with, "I don't hear any nouns!" and I stop, back up, get the whole sentence arranged in correct order in my head (with noun(s) :-) and then try again. My T was amazed that I did not resent my husband saying that and hopefully asked, "Can I use that expression?"

The second irritation was about you not checking out what you heard, that it was what she meant/was actually saying. Tell me it is the first time you've not done that Heck, I'm guilty all the time but I'm getting better at it because I know I'm doing it and I'm working on it!

So it pops up again if you get "careless" and forget. Be grateful for the sand you are, the irritation, we're busy making a pearl here! The oyster doesn't get rid of the sand, the irritation, does it? No, it helps make the pearl. The T is the oyster.

[unaluna]

wow, I guess this is the other reason I have a male T. I always had horrible PMS, like a light switch, one day CRABBY CRABBY CRABBY, the next day I am strawberry shortcake. I would not want to deal with someone like me. One T asked if my mother was the same way, I said I had no idea, she was ALWAYS a witch, more or less would not have made a difference. T is tired or sad sometimes, but now he usually tells me at the beginning of the session if he is very "off" for some reason. But any kind of irritation, I will probably start laughing at him. Again, not saying that's a good thing.

[mixedup_emotions]

"I say to her that I can't stand to be alone, wail (privately) that I'm all alone, then tell her I don't want or need people, I just want to learn how to be alone with myself and feel good and content."

WOW....This is exactly what I am going through now....and I am concerned that you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself. Sometimes it takes a bit of work in order to become aware of what we really want.

In the statement I quoted above....I was in T the other day saying pretty much this same thing....and what really came out of it is that I am scared to death of taking the steps towards not being alone because of X, Y, Z (specific fears).

T and I have had several ruptures over the years....one time, he basically called me "dumb" as I was leaving my session - and I called him on it at the start of my next session....another time, he told me - flat out - that he was unhappy with me because of my behavior and we worked through it....I have found that although it was terrible to have to navigate through it, it was an incredible learning experience - especially in the context of a therapy relationship where it can be explored in real-time.

[critterlady]

My previous T got annoyed with me once. He's huge on self-care and I was describing something I'd done that week that I really love doing. I told him that I wished I had time to do that thing every week. He pushed me on making time and I said I really couldn't, since it took about 5 hours to do. So he said to me "so, self-care goes out the window??" in a really irritated tone. I said "I didn't say that!" and he said "No, I did!"

We had a little discussion about how just because I couldn't do that one thing to take care of myself very often didn't mean that I didn't do other things. He calmed down and we went on from there.