[likelife]

I apologize for my multiple recent threads, all on the same theme. I'm feeling completely overwhelmed, and I could really use some help in making a decision about my therapy.

I've been seeing my T for more than 4 years. She's seen me through several bouts of severe, suicidal depression, along with coping with parenthood, my professional life, and difficulties with my husband. Along the way I developed a fiercely strong maternal transference toward her and right now it's making me feel like I'm drowning.

I want so much from her - to be held, loved, cared for, nurtured. Waiting the time between sessions is excruciating sometimes. She lets me email her, which has been helpful.

But recently, it seems like all I can/want to talk with her about is our relationship. The tension between wanting closeness while also telling myself I either don't deserve it or that I'm wrong to want it from her is making me crazy. I berate myself constantly for wanting the things from her I want, because they just seem wrong. I know that none of them are possible (with her), so why do I put myself through this?

She's been very patient throughout all of this, but I can't imagine that she's not at least a little frustrated that I can't seem to move on. It's getting to where I'm feeling depressed for up to several days after our sessions. Nothing else in my life causes this kind of grief or drama. I'm functioning fine at work and in my marriage and as a parent. To do so requires putting up a front that I've carefully honed my whole life. My work in therapy has also been about increasing authenticity, but if the cost of that is becoming suicidal, then I'm pretty sure it's not worth it.

After each session, I keep thinking I can't possibly go back, because I feel too overwhelmed or ashamed or needy or crazy. But I inevitably do because the thought of leaving kills me. I've been SO independent my entire life. To feel like I'm tied up in being dependent on this woman whom I don't even really know, that I keep seeking her love, seems ludicrous to me.

I'm terrified to even take a break; my T is so busy that I imagine I'd lose my slot pretty quickly. But why should I care if I want to quit anyway? I don't feel like I'm making sense about this. Whenever I try to write about it - to her, in my journal, on here - I feel like I'm talking in circles. I end up in a kind of dissociative fog.

Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated.

[stopdog]

Could you show her your post here (which is quite clear and direct perhaps differently from your journal) and ask her for some sort of guidance or frame for working through it or getting on track about how to not feel so overwhelmed?

[BlueHen]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Could you show her your post here (which is quite clear and direct perhaps differently from your journal) and ask her for some sort of guidance or frame for working through it or getting on track about how to not feel so overwhelmed?

Two months ago I left my therapist of seven years. I was crazy about her and her aloofness left me angry and frustrated. I came to believe that she didn't care. I am now more convinced than ever that she didn't. It is a business for these people and we their words about unconditional love, intimacy are just that, words. It is painful to have left, knowing that I will never see her again and that my appointment slot was quickly filled. But I am working through the reality slowly but surely, with ups and downs. The very fact that she will never seek me out to see how I am doing proves my point -- we care for them much more than they care about us.

I feel for you likelife. In fact, I could have written your post myself. When we begin therapy , I dont think we even think about the relationship that develops with the actual therapist. After 6 years, I feel much the same as you. I hate the fact that I feel so dependent on her, that she feels like the mother i never had, and that i dont seem to be able to find that comfort anywhere else. I think she does truly care for me in the session, but unfortunately I think that they way i feel about her is vastly different to how she feels about me the rest of the time. As i said, she is warm and loving in the session, yet almost cold and informal in emails or on the phone (she does allow this). I have thought so often about making the break, but the thought of not having her in my life is very distressing. I'm sorry i dont have any solutions for you, other than to tell you you are not alone in this. Honestly, if had known what strong feelings would develop in a relationship that is so one sided, i think i would have thought twice about starting therapy. In many ways, i now feel i need help with the feelings i have for her and the eventual termination. Please pm me if you want to talk further. You are not alone.....

[tuxyjenn]

I just wrote something similar to all this. I wrote this just a little bit ago: "I am not sure if I want t to read this but I don’t know what I am doing in therapy anymore other than wishing she was my mom."

[Dreamy01]

Likelife I can really relate to your post. In so many ways.

I've been in therapy with 3 different ts (including my current t) and I grew very attached to each one. It's very hard for me to distingush the problems that led me to go to therapy with the excessive need for the t. In the end I want it to be about the relationship, my love and need for a mother, and the desperate longing for emotional connection and physcial touch and nurturing.

I have struggled with when the time is right to call it a day because therapy all seems to be about unmet needs that can't be met. Like you I am very independent outside of therapy because I've had to be all my life. I can cope...yet seeing t leads me into a place of desperate need.

I grew a lot with my former t (who wasn't particularly motherly) but seeing current t has brought a lot of my pain and desperation back.

I am trying to keep the faith that by being open and honest with T about my needs and desperation I will find a way through. I couldn't do this with either proir t. My current t is, so far, extremely on the ball and wants to help me work through the desperation I feel. I just don't know if I have the strength to cope with the knowledge she can't be that person I need so much. My only consolation is that my T has said there are two of us in this together, I don't have to make the decision to leave on my own or deal with this excessive need on my own. In the past, I have had to stop whatever comfort I got out of shame.

I guess I'm saying there are two of you in this Likelife, but it seems from your post that you feel very alone, is that right?

Okay the client holds the power in terms of staying/leaving, but I feel your T could be engaging more and helping you through these feelings. I wonder if showing her your post would help? Some therapists remain more detached than others, but I would hope your T can recognise you need support with those feelings about her. It might be that you need to grieve for what she can't be for you and that freedom will allow you to let go. I have never worked through my grief over my parents properly because part of me still believes I will one day find that mother who will hold and protect me.

Dialogue is key. Try to be honest and tell T you need her support with these intense feelings. Ts should be used to people developing intense feelings about them and know how to help.

[likelife]

Originally Posted by BlueHen

Two months ago I left my therapist of seven years. I was crazy about her and her aloofness left me angry and frustrated. I came to believe that she didn't care. I am now more convinced than ever that she didn't. It is a business for these people and we their words about unconditional love, intimacy are just that, words. It is painful to have left, knowing that I will never see her again and that my appointment slot was quickly filled. But I am working through the reality slowly but surely, with ups and downs. The very fact that she will never seek me out to see how I am doing proves my point -- we care for them much more than they care about us.

Wow, it sounds like it took a lot of strength to leave. Seven years is a long time. It's so hard for me not to get sucked into thoughts similar to yours - that I care way more for my T than she does about me. It hurts a lot.

Does it feel like things have gotten easier for you over time?

[likelife]

Originally Posted by kindergirl

I feel for you likelife. In fact, I could have written your post myself. When we begin therapy , I dont think we even think about the relationship that develops with the actual therapist. After 6 years, I feel much the same as you. I hate the fact that I feel so dependent on her, that she feels like the mother i never had, and that i dont seem to be able to find that comfort anywhere else. I think she does truly care for me in the session, but unfortunately I think that they way i feel about her is vastly different to how she feels about me the rest of the time. As i said, she is warm and loving in the session, yet almost cold and informal in emails or on the phone (she does allow this). I have thought so often about making the break, but the thought of not having her in my life is very distressing. I'm sorry i dont have any solutions for you, other than to tell you you are not alone in this. Honestly, if had known what strong feelings would develop in a relationship that is so one sided, i think i would have thought twice about starting therapy. In many ways, i now feel i need help with the feelings i have for her and the eventual termination. Please pm me if you want to talk further. You are not alone.....

Thank you for reminding me I'm not alone, kindergirl. I'm sorry that you've been in the same struggle

It feels a bit like a bait and switch sometimes. I go in wanting to feel less depressed and I come out feeling more depressed about my T. Something's not right there.

[likelife]

Originally Posted by Dreamy01

Likelife I can really relate to your post. In so many ways.

I've been in therapy with 3 different ts (including my current t) and I grew very attached to each one. It's very hard for me to distingush the problems that led me to go to therapy with the excessive need for the t. In the end I want it to be about the relationship, my love and need for a mother, and the desperate longing for emotional connection and physcial touch and nurturing.

I have struggled with when the time is right to call it a day because therapy all seems to be about unmet needs that can't be met. Like you I am very independent outside of therapy because I've had to be all my life. I can cope...yet seeing t leads me into a place of desperate need.

I grew a lot with my former t (who wasn't particularly motherly) but seeing current t has brought a lot of my pain and desperation back.

I am trying to keep the faith that by being open and honest with T about my needs and desperation I will find a way through. I couldn't do this with either proir t. My current t is, so far, extremely on the ball and wants to help me work through the desperation I feel. I just don't know if I have the strength to cope with the knowledge she can't be that person I need so much. My only consolation is that my T has said there are two of us in this together, I don't have to make the decision to leave on my own or deal with this excessive need on my own. In the past, I have had to stop whatever comfort I got out of shame.

I guess I'm saying there are two of you in this Likelife, but it seems from your post that you feel very alone, is that right?

Okay the client holds the power in terms of staying/leaving, but I feel your T could be engaging more and helping you through these feelings. I wonder if showing her your post would help? Some therapists remain more detached than others, but I would hope your T can recognise you need support with those feelings about her. It might be that you need to grieve for what she can't be for you and that freedom will allow you to let go. I have never worked through my grief over my parents properly because part of me still believes I will one day find that mother who will hold and protect me.

Dialogue is key. Try to be honest and tell T you need her support with these intense feelings. Ts should be used to people developing intense feelings about them and know how to help.

Thanks, Dreamy. It does seem that you and I have a lot in common with regard to our Ts.

What helped you to grow with your last T who wasn't particularly motherly? I wouldn't necessarily call my T motherly, though she's not cold either.

I'm so glad your current T is willing (and able) to work with you around the desperation. That's exactly the word I use all the time to describe my experience. And yes, you're exactly right that even though there are two of us in this, I feel completely alone with that. Part of that is my nature, I think, to feel as if I'm alone in any endeavor I undertake. But I think part of it is also my T, who seems very careful to emphasize that staying vs. leaving is entirely my decision. Which, obviously, it is, but I'd still think that she'd have some input or ideas. Yesterday when I talked with her about it, she essentially said that yes, I'd be fine if I stopped therapy (which was something I had initially brought up), and that I have a choice about whether I want to continue along the path I've been taking (e.g., toward self-acceptance).

I don't think I've ever fully grieved what I was unable to receive as a child either. And maybe I'm just moving through the grief of knowing that I can't receive it from my T, as much as I might want to. But damn, it just hurts.

I really appreciate your post, and your support.

[WantingtoHeal]

Oh yeah, I relate so completely. I may have to print out these posts and bring them to T. I am saddened that people have gone on for years feeling this way. I just can't do this for years. It's too painful. I either have to quit T or work it through. My big task is making sure T is up to the task of handling it.

It just blows my mind that other people go through this. It makes me so sad. It's such a lonely feeling...and just awful when your therapist won't give you those loving accepting feelings. My t is kind of in between. I can't tell the truth of what she does because I'm blind by my love for her.

I know people on here have moved through this.

WTH

[Perna]

I cannot see that quitting will change anything? Maybe it is like getting halfway up a mountain and deciding to go back down, halfway across a desert, etc.

Maybe that idea can help you; you aren't trying to get to where what you want with her is what happens, you are trying to get beyond that? Can you look at what is going on now as part of a larger picture and think about and discuss how to get "beyond"?

Originally Posted by likelife

But recently, it seems like all I can/want to talk with her about is our relationship. The tension between wanting closeness while also telling myself I either don't deserve it or that I'm wrong to want it from her is making me crazy. I berate myself constantly for wanting the things from her I want, because they just seem wrong. I know that none of them are possible (with her), so why do I put myself through this?

As my former T said, "THIS is the work!" Though I'm not a fan of this word, it seems like transference--transferring what you felt about other important (parental?) relationships in your life onto her. Did you also feel like you didn't deserve to get what you needed from them? If so, you're at a really important phase in your work. I was there, too, and what made it better was realizing through the shame that I was and am worth it to receive these things. Though, sadly, since it didn't happen in the past with my parents it cannot happen in the same way with my T. But I can learn that I did nothing wrong in the past and I did deserve this connection. I cannot get these needs met now, but I can reframe what I do with these deep yearnings, including learning to be my own parent, which T models for me. You'll need to be OK with realizing that your need makes sense and it cannot be met and learn to fill these needs yourself before you can truly move on and be more content.

Originally Posted by likelife

.... I've been SO independent my entire life. To feel like I'm tied up in being dependent on this woman whom I don't even really know, that I keep seeking her love, seems ludicrous to me.

Yes, this is how I've felt, too! I totally took care of myself emotionally from a young age, but how I did it was harmful to me. You have to let yourself become dependent on learning these things from someone (albeit late, in adult life) before you can emerge in a better state of independence, one that has you more content with yourself and your life.

The trick now is to talk w/ T about all of this... and I wish you luck for that. A short break could be good, but would it be running away from the deeper work? I don't know the answer to that. I do encourage you to continue with therapy as it seems like you've made it far and you have to push yourself to reach the top of the mountain, which is in sight.

[Dreamy01]

Originally Posted by likelife

Thanks, Dreamy. It does seem that you and I have a lot in common with regard to our Ts.

What helped you to grow with your last T who wasn't particularly motherly? I wouldn't necessarily call my T motherly, though she's not cold either.

I'm so glad your current T is willing (and able) to work with you around the desperation. That's exactly the word I use all the time to describe my experience. And yes, you're exactly right that even though there are two of us in this, I feel completely alone with that. Part of that is my nature, I think, to feel as if I'm alone in any endeavor I undertake. But I think part of it is also my T, who seems very careful to emphasize that staying vs. leaving is entirely my decision. Which, obviously, it is, but I'd still think that she'd have some input or ideas. Yesterday when I talked with her about it, she essentially said that yes, I'd be fine if I stopped therapy (which was something I had initially brought up), and that I have a choice about whether I want to continue along the path I've been taking (e.g., toward self-acceptance).

I don't think I've ever fully grieved what I was unable to receive as a child either. And maybe I'm just moving through the grief of knowing that I can't receive it from my T, as much as I might want to. But damn, it just hurts.

I really appreciate your post, and your support.

Glad I could help.

I've often pondered over my relationship with former t. She helped me a great deal because she got me out of the stuck, shut down place I was in when I started seeing her. She helped me value myself and my creativity and basically gain self worth. She loved my intellectual side and encouraged me to go forward in life and trust in myself. She liked me a lot and as adults we had a deep connection. We would have been great friends in different circumstances. In many important ways, she was a fab T.

But she didn't go into the past. She didn't emphasise our relationship other than the fact we were 'two adults' together. Transference didn't exist for her. There were plenty of times when I reacted as a child and this was not heard or understood. I wanted to process my need for a mother and she wasn't comfortable with this. She avoided all emotional connections to my childhood and also to my need for her to comfort me. It wasn't my paranoia because she actually told me that she didn't feel happy with exploring the past and wanted to concentrate on moving me on and living in the present.

I sometimes wonder if I'm 'going backwards' by seeing current t but then to be honest I reacted so strongly during my first meeting with her that I think something inside must still need and desire that unconditional love and support. If I can't HAVE it per sae, I want to explore it with a T who accepts my need and helps me to process it and eventually move on from it or live with it. Easier in theory perhaps. Also, I think current T does give me a lot of what I crave in terms of boundaries, gentle containment, and acceptance. I hope that having those experiences and being able to talk to T about my need for a mother will finally allow me to stop seeking one and live the life that former T and I talked about so much.

Although I'm sure your T is trying to be supportive by leaving the decision to you, she comes across as rather distant to me. I'm guessing that is how she feels for you too at least over this. It is one thing to know the decision lies with you but it is also important to feel T is invested in your relationship and wants to work together with you. It has meant so much to me to know that my T will help me work through my intense emotions because I don't feel alone. As you say, it is hard to reach out and it is a two way thing, so perhaps by sharing your post and thoughts your T can meet you halfway. The grief hurts but you don't have to move through it alone. I do think that it's part of the work in therapy to process what can never be.

Take care

[rainbow8]

likelife: I relate to your feelings totally! Yours too, dreamy. My former T was the same as yours, dreamy. No exploration of the past; she didn't want to deal with my "child parts". I felt like arrows piercing my heart if I thought about quitting, though. I saw her for about 6 years.

I agree with eastcoaster's T who said "THIS is the work". With my current T, we are talking as much as necessary about OUR relationship and how I feel about her. I need that, though I know it's not about HER. I need her to be there, validating my feelings for her and not shaming me for them. I need that desperately.

I think you need that too, right now. It's a horrible place to be, wanting a T so much, but it's about basic unmet needs. It always goes back to that. I think, after all my therapy, I'm getting somewhere with it, realizing that T really cares about me, and always will, but I have to be there for myself. It's a VERY slow process, and is painful. But it's like growing up all over again. I think if you stick with your T and continue to explore your needs for her, it will get better. You're NOT alone at all with this. I think it's what most of us need and want from therapy.

I wanted to quote from the posts in your thread; they are all so meaningful but I haven't learned how to do that correctly--still.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Perna

I cannot see that quitting will change anything? Maybe it is like getting halfway up a mountain and deciding to go back down, halfway across a desert, etc.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could measure how far we've come and how far we still have to go? The lack of usable metrics is one of my biggest frustrations with therapy.

Therapy is a strange mountain. It's steepest at the bottom.

[Dreamy01]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could measure how far we've come and how far we still have to go? The lack of usable metrics is one of my biggest frustrations with therapy.

Therapy is a strange mountain. It's steepest at the bottom.

I totally agree with this. I hate not knowing where I am, if I could be anywhere at all in terms of progress.

I guess I latch onto faith that no one can actually go 'backwards' in life because we're all a product of our experiences. Even if I feel I've regressed, part of me is still holding the knowledge of all I have gained and somewhere there has to be an integration.

For me those feelings were always there. Before therapy I would take "hostages" any woman at work that showed the smallest sign of being caring that was it. I would find a way to insert a "poor me" story, would purposely make sure I was where they was. That was painful because I couldn't talk about it, couldn't understand it. The pain of not getting those deep needs reciperated or contained made me want to drink and drug where I could dream about dying and all my "hostages" being at my graveside. That was my life before therapy. Yes in therapy its painful but at least I can say what's going on and get it understood. You know being understood is priceless, but when I'm in one of my deep transference which can go on for weeks, it feels useless, but that because how it felt growing up, it felt useless to want to be cared about or understood because it never haPpened. Its that never happening that is such a big part of my expereince that it seems like it will always be so. But whhen I come out of thise horrible transferences, I see I have come a step forward.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by likelife

I apologize for my multiple recent threads, all on the same theme. I'm feeling completely overwhelmed, and I could really use some help in making a decision about my therapy.

I've been seeing my T for more than 4 years. She's seen me through several bouts of severe, suicidal depression, along with coping with parenthood, my professional life, and difficulties with my husband. Along the way I developed a fiercely strong maternal transference toward her and right now it's making me feel like I'm drowning.

I want so much from her - to be held, loved, cared for, nurtured. Waiting the time between sessions is excruciating sometimes. She lets me email her, which has been helpful.

But recently, it seems like all I can/want to talk with her about is our relationship. The tension between wanting closeness while also telling myself I either don't deserve it or that I'm wrong to want it from her is making me crazy. I berate myself constantly for wanting the things from her I want, because they just seem wrong. I know that none of them are possible (with her), so why do I put myself through this?

She's been very patient throughout all of this, but I can't imagine that she's not at least a little frustrated that I can't seem to move on. It's getting to where I'm feeling depressed for up to several days after our sessions. Nothing else in my life causes this kind of grief or drama. I'm functioning fine at work and in my marriage and as a parent. To do so requires putting up a front that I've carefully honed my whole life. My work in therapy has also been about increasing authenticity, but if the cost of that is becoming suicidal, then I'm pretty sure it's not worth it.

After each session, I keep thinking I can't possibly go back, because I feel too overwhelmed or ashamed or needy or crazy. But I inevitably do because the thought of leaving kills me. I've been SO independent my entire life. To feel like I'm tied up in being dependent on this woman whom I don't even really know, that I keep seeking her love, seems ludicrous to me.

I'm terrified to even take a break; my T is so busy that I imagine I'd lose my slot pretty quickly. But why should I care if I want to quit anyway? I don't feel like I'm making sense about this. Whenever I try to write about it - to her, in my journal, on here - I feel like I'm talking in circles. I end up in a kind of dissociative fog.

Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated.

I would try not to quit this work - it sounds like the work you need to do. You seem to be addressing the long and deep need for maternal care and desire to be taken care of.

It can be such and old old wound of deprivation, or I think it can be a desire to escape from the rigors of adulthood and revert to an emotional state in which you are/were comfortable. In fact, it's likely a combination of both.

In any case, I think staying in the work until you resolve this in some way is a good thing.

I know it can be painful beyond all recognition, but it can be worth it.

Perhaps you and your therapist should spend a little time developing strategies to help you contain it? It may sound counterintuitive but decreasing the frequency of sessions may help. This decrease may give you time to get a little bit more perspective about the relationship and allow you to re-engage your life a bit.

I do think therapy should be a big thing, but it shouldn't be so big that other parts of your life are muffled. I've also found that even when I'm not "working" on it, parts of my brain are.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Likelife, there is so much pain in your post. I'm sorry.

I don't know if this is going to be of any help to you, but see if you can see what I'm saying....

In a sense, the person you meet with in that therapy room is not real. She has a name, a SSN, fingerprints and all that; but she is a different person to each client who enters, because she becomes the target of their unconscious needs, attachment, feelings.

The shame, rage, dependence you may feel is not directed at her; it's really directed at someone in your past. That's how the T can absorb the client's rages without taking it personally; it ISN'T personal, isn't for her; it's for someone else.

Likewise, the love you may feel is not directed at her, but at someone in your past. That's how the T can stay levelheaded in the face of affectionate feelings coming from client; they are not really directed at her, they really are for someone else

It may help with the embarrassment and shame (it did me, anyway), to come to the realization of all this AND to realize that it's not really me raging, or loving; not the me of today, who works, is a wife, etc; it's a long ago person I was, who left some things unfinished & that's why I came to therapy.

this is so so hard, I know it is. hugs to you ((((((((( likelife )))))))))

[tuxyjenn]

This past Tuesday I had a therapy session in which I had a crying meltdown and I have been feeling not up to par lately. I was scheduled to have another session on Thursday but the bad part of me was telling the good part of me not to go to therapy cause of all that is going on. Struggling so much with my issues and this past January I admitted my love for her for wishing she was my mother. Wed night I called her telling her that bad me was telling good me not to go on Thu and she said that why don't we cancel and for me to take the weekend for me to figure out what I want to do. I am scheduled for a Mon and a Wed appointment with her next week and I am not sure I want to keep the Mon appointment. We scheduled several appointments ahead of time the other week. There is this issue with me that they (insurance company) doesn't see progress and that my ability to keep going might be stopped. So much more complicated than what I can write here and I don't know what else to say or do. Therapist knows the rest though. So I donno what to do.

[CantExplain]

Hi Likelife!

In November 2007 I broke with my T, feeling essentially the way you do now.
The feelings came to a head in February 2008. I realised I could never have her on my own terms, and I cried every night for a week.
When I had finished grieving, I realised that she still had a lot to offer.
I went back to her in March.

This was not my first rupture, nor was it my last!
It was probably my worst.

We're still together, and it seems to be working.
I don't anticipate any further ruptures, but you never can tell!

[Butterflies Are Free]

Hello! I read your post and can really relate. I finally decided, after many years of therapy with my T, to just be honest about my feeling for her. I tell her when I need a hug or when I miss her. Talking about it does not change the fact that I miss her, but getting it out in the open allows me to deal with my feelings. It also allows my T to draw closer to me.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by likelife

It's so hard for me not to get sucked into thoughts similar to yours - that I care way more for my T than she does about me. It hurts a lot.

Your therapy should be the biggest thing in your life but it is not the biggest thing in your therapist's life!

Another person, no matter whether they are a therapist or not cannot meet our needs; that is our duty to learn to get our needs met. Everyone is in charge of their own life; us, doctors, therapist, lawyers, kindergarten teachers, construction workers, accounting clerks, WalMart clerks.

But what we want is not the same as what we deserve or is right or wrong or any judgmental thing you are putting yourself through. Were I you, I would accept that you want your T; remember some of the things you wanted when you were little; maybe to fly or be a mommy (having no idea whatsoever what that entailed) or to eat all the candy/dessert you wanted, how about if you have ever daydreamed about having a million dollars? Those are all symbols. It's like dreaming at night and dream symbols; we have to figure out what the symbols, our symbols (since they are in our heads, created by us/for us) mean.

It sounds like maybe you are driving yourself crazy being too literal?