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#1
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So, I know that I am loved .... this does matter to me and it does make me feel good, secure, content.
I know in particular that my H does love me ..... but I also know in particular that he does not trust me and seems not to really respect me either. (Perhaps I've haven't earned it; or I've had it, lost it, and could possibly regain it .... but that's not the point of this post, really....) And it's got me to thinking more about something I have thought of before, just not quite as deeply or deeply felt, perhaps. But it's this: being loved is good, but somehow it feels less or not complete without the trust or even less without the respect. Like, how secure is a love, how meaningful is a love, when the trust/respect is diminished, distant? So, even more than just being loved and being loved even in my imperfection, mistakes, faults and flaws, it matters to me that I would be trusted and respected even in my imperfection, mistakes, faults, and flaws. It matters to me that people I love or am close to could still believe I had good character even in my imperfections/sins, whatever .... still respect me even in my weakness, even in my darkness. I've followed the thread about wanting or not to have people say 'I'm proud of you'. But you know what I want more than that? What matters more to me than that? What matters most to me, I think? That someone I respect/feel fond of/am close to, someone who knows me well, would say to me 'I respect you'. That matters most to me. It hurts very badly to hear the opposite from one who lives with me .... who says he loves me and I believe it, but I want the respect ..... do I not deserve it, even if I have failed and am imperfect? (And yes, I would love to hear T2 say to me, I respect you, too ... because I respect it and it would mean a lot to me, more than hearing her say she was proud of me ....) |
![]() Anonymous32517, Anonymous43209, BashfulBear, missbelle, rainbow8, WikidPissah, zooropa
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![]() critterlady, karebear1, missbelle, whatbeanbelieved, WikidPissah
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#2
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Wow. Yes. This. I can relate completely to this.
I wish I had something more meaningful to say, but I really hear what you are saying. |
![]() SpiritRunner
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![]() SpiritRunner
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#3
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It makes me wonder what the person means when they claim they love but have no respect. It doesn't compute in my brain.
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![]() SpiritRunner
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#4
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Quote:
I mean, you can love someone and yet not entirely trust them, so it must be also possible to love someone and not entirely respect them .... I'm not meaning, not respect as in treat disrespectfully/rudely/meanly, but more in the sense of having regard for a person's character/qualities, as well as admiration/regard for struggles overcome/efforts made, etc .... I feel like I get respect for my physical achievements, for my intelligence .... but for my character, just for me, overall, as a person? Heh. It's a little difficult to maintain a sense of being worthy of respect, a feeling of self-respect, when you either don't know if you're respected or pretty much know you're not ..... I suppose I should have framed some of this as a question in my post, because I am curious to know whether being respected matters a lot to people .... the same sort of question as for whether it matters if people are proud of you or not, I guess. And curious to know whether people feel respected and/or how they know/believe they are .... |
#5
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I feel like I'm am respected in some ways, but not in as many ways as I was before this depression started 3 years ago..... and that makes me sad because if people knew what I have to do to sometimes to stay alive everyday, I'd hope that their respect for me grew greater. Instead, I feel as though people look down on me and have lost respect for me because they don't see the "strength" I used to have.
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![]() BashfulBear, SpiritRunner
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#6
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I'm completely unsure what to say, but I really - honestly - understand!
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__________________
'I also hate people who ask cheerfully how you are when they know you're feeling like hell and expect you to say 'Fine.'' - Sylvia Plath ![]() |
![]() SpiritRunner
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#7
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Okaaaayyy - what I would like is to be respected for my strength in overcoming all this anguish/torment/hellish stuff that I have been through emotionally/mentally/otherwise and building myself back up to the point where I am doing better than I ever have - even though it's not always easy by any means. Yes, my strength has failed me ... or rather I used up what I had and had none for a while .... but now I do. And respect for the victories, respect for me and my strength, that would be nice to have .... Oh, I don't know if this friend thinking I am fragile means she doesn't respect me/my strength, because I think she does .... but others I know do think less of me because of the struggles I've had. So, karebear, I have respect for you, for your struggles, your efforts. I do know what it takes, what it costs, and am glad you are still here, trying each day! |
![]() karebear1
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#8
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So there's something I'm experiencing (unfortunately) right now. It hurts like hell. |
![]() karebear1, SpiritRunner, WikidPissah
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![]() karebear1, SpiritRunner
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#9
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Snuffy, I'm sorry for what you're enduring with your friend.
Heh. Maybe my H thinks of me in those same terms. Probably so. But I don't feel it's justified ... with you and your friend, yes, I see how it sadly makes sense, is justified. But then, love is given and respect/trust are earned/lost/regained .... and so perhaps I don't deserve so much respect/trust, even though I do deserve love. Huh. Well, that stings. Time to stop coming back to think about this right now! |
![]() Snuffleupagus
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#10
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Maybe it depends on your own self-esteem. Does it depend on feeling superior to the person you love? Then how can that person feel competent? Oh, I love Coen's book. See back to his 3 psychological needs: autonomy, competence, and relatedness. If any of these needs is thwarted, you may develop pathological dependency. The relatedness is thwarted here also.
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![]() SpiritRunner
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#11
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I think that if someone said to me, "I respect you", I wouldn't believe them. Because I don't think that respect is something that needs to be said, as respect (and disrespect) are communicated indirectly, like in nonverbals in discussion. Someone can say something like, "Okay, whatever you want" in a way that is respectful, and then they can say it in a completely demeaning tone with an eyeroll attached.
With trust, it depends on why someone might have lost the trust of their spouse. If it's because they cheated on them, that's one thing. If it's because of something else that has more to do with a disagreement in values, that's something else all together. A lot of times people use "I don't trust you" as a way to get the other person to do what they want. You have to do this, because I don't trust you. Not so good in my book. I'm sure I haven't been married as long as many of the people here, but in my 20 years in this relationship I know that love isn't enough. Even being in love isn't enough. There has to be respect, there has to be trust, and for me there has to be autonomy (which really depend on trust and respect I think). |
![]() SpiritRunner
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#12
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Respect matters a lot to me. Professional respect, from colleagues and bosses; respect from my H and family for who I am; respect from my T. I started a thread about respect and the T the other week ( http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=232375 ).
One reason why I'm desperately down is that I know I don't deserve professional respect in the areas that really matter to me. And I certainly don't deserve respect from my family, but that has always been true. Like "pride", "respect" can mean different things. One important element is being seen as an autonomous adult. Not being questioned in everything I do (though T, of course, may have questions about everything I do). Not having somebody double-check everything I do or criticise my every move. Not being despised is a good thing as well. And having my choices accepted even when other people don't agree with them - such as when I don't go out in the evening because I need time alone. |
![]() SpiritRunner
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![]() SpiritRunner
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#13
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Quote:
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![]() SpiritRunner
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![]() SpiritRunner
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#14
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__________________
never mind... |
![]() SpiritRunner
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#15
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The therapist has stated she respects me and that, while not particularly relevant to anything, does not enrage or frustrate me as other phrases or ideas from her would. |
![]() elliemay, SpiritRunner
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#16
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While I do think that respect from others is important, I do think the "first cause" respect is self-respect, it underpins just about everything else.
And not in the sense of "no self-respecting person would...." but more in the sense of the innate honor for our own person that emanates from us.
__________________
......................... |
![]() SpiritRunner
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#17
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don't have the liberty of time to reply much right now, but thanks for the good responses! I appreciate them. you know me, I'll have more to say later; I've been thinking a lot.
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#18
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My grandma used to say that love without trust was like a bird without wings.
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![]() SpiritRunner
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#19
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Quote:
or like a bird in a pretty gilded cage perhaps, but not free to fly .... not able or not allowed to fly or both. really quite sad. and love without respect .... sort of feels like a millstone hung around my neck. I could fly, but it's harder with the weight/burden ... |
#20
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So ... a few thoughts.
Yes, there are different kinds of respect, different meanings of the word, like with pride ... different types of respect a person wants in different situations or aspects of their lives, for various reasons. I really want to have respect for my character, for my character and my spirituality intertwined I guess - not that I want people to think I am better than I am, or that I need to have praise/approval, or even so much that I want it in order to prop up self-esteem or self-worth, though I have had struggles in those areas, too. But I suppose I do want a sort of validation, perhaps - a validation that I haven't so miserably failed at living a life of spiritual worth, I guess, or that there are values/qualities people could see in me that they could respect, even if I feel like I've failed. That's a validation I find challenging to give to myself, because I look inside and think, why do I keep struggling with this, is there something wrong with my values, with my faith, etc? I want to be able to be authentic, be authentically me, and be respected for holding to the values I do have. I think some of the issue lies in that certain ones in my life do have a disagreement with some of values, particularly my spiritual values - that my values are seen to be compromised, or too worldly, and not worthy of respect, because they aren't believed to be right. My change in convictions, my convictions, are not agreed with, not respected .... I don't expect agreement, or want others to compromise themselves to agree with me, but it is possible to acknowledge that differing values are worthy of respect, or that people with differing values are worthy of respect. I recognize that there might indeed be ways in which I have disappointed people and valid reasons some or another might not respect me or not trust me, either. I really do understand and accept that. There are areas where I don't deserve respect, I know that. But that that should make it so that I don't deserve respect, or could not be respected (or trusted) overall, I don't think so. I can't make anyone respect me ... I don't feel it's right to try, or to not be true to my values, convictions, or be less than authentic just so I'll have someone's 'respect'. If there is something that should be done, something I should change in my behaviors/choices, to repair trust, I'm willing to do that, though .... I guess that may be a way of re-earning respect. Or respect that I could give more for someone's feelings about a particular issue ..... Yes, self-respect is important, and at the crux of it. Without self-respect (which I would think as a sense of self-worth, an ability to offer yourself both validation and a compassionate, but honest, assessment of yourself, and also understanding/making what choices that are truly in the best interests of your total well-being) how can you truly believe words or gestures of respect others offer; how can you believe you are worthy of it or accept that they really mean it? I have more self-respect than I used to. Yet, I still suffer from doubt that I am worthy of much respect ... I have trouble telling if someone respects me, really knows me and still respects me and my character, just from non-verbal stuff. I sometimes misread non-verbal signs, or make negative interpretations that may not be accurate, and so I tend to want words to clarify whether or not I have perceived accurately or given the right interpretation to my perception. And just because someone does kind things for me, I don't assume that means they respect me .... I may think it is proof that they love me, that they care, want to sincerely help, etc, but not that they respect me. I want to hear the words, and I want to SEE how they say the words. And then I can read the non-verbal language too that accompanies the words .... and get a better sense of the shading of the truth. And also, it is possible, I presume, to show respect even when you don't respect someone, their values, or their choices. But that would be done because of compassion, of charity, of love, perhaps. Or - possibly out of sense of righteousness/duty, too. Ah well, thanks for humoring my convoluted ramblings .... I wish I could call up T2 and ask her about this stuff ... or ask her if she respects me (ha), but I don't feel the liberty to do so and probably would get a T-type answer anyway ... |
![]() whatbeanbelieved
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![]() whatbeanbelieved
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#21
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![]() stopdog
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#22
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thank you for the kind words, minney.
sigh. I didn't intend any of this thread to be about my H, per se, anything like complaining, griping or gritching or asking for sympathy or trying to make him look like a loser/not like a loser either one. Just about me, my feelings about respect, desire for it, reality of the lack of it (for both justifiable AND unjustifiable reasons). And I am sorry people are uncomfortable because of the perceived feelings about my H, whatever comes through when I post .... I get the sense people are avoiding reading/responding because of that discomfort. And, in an ironic twist perhaps, I get the feeling there is some bit of respect lost for me because of how I keep portraying/not portraying my attitude/reactions to the story. I only try to be honest, keeping in mind, as my closest friend says, that there is good and bad in him and good and bad in me. I am no flippin' angel here! Nor is he all the devil. And yeah, I have to keep in mind when posting that he is likely to read what I post (or it's just better to assume that he will, whether I asked him to or not), feeling that because I am not trustworthy, I should have tabs kept on what I am up to. Not that I would be less than honest ... but perhaps more tactful. Hmmm. But then I don't get to vent like I would perhaps need to on occasion .... because I don't want to be 'hurtful' or 'disrespectful'. But while I am on the topic ..... yeah, he feels he cannot trust me, nor respect me, because I didn't keep my word to stay away from here 100% when he was home. Who cares that I did 95% .... who cares that I only read a few minutes and rarely posted? I still broke my word. As he said to me the other night, do you really think I should still trust you? I feel like, as long as there is this difference (and others) between us, as long as my values differ on this as well as on some spiritual convictions, there is going to be difficulty in having trust/respect in the fullest. And as long as he holds on to feelings of betrayal/anger about this (and feelings of the same sort regarding the relationship/attachment with T1) it's going to be difficult for me to have the trust/respect I'd like. What must I compromise/sacrifice? What should I compromise/sacrifice ... that doesn't require me compromising/sacrificing values that are important to me, or my authenticity as a person, or my integrity as a person? Integrity and honor are also 2 words I think of when thinking of respect ... wishing I could be (as well as be believed to be) a person of both those things. A friend last year told me I lacked integrity (well, this was in the summer of hell, when I was suicidal, and had taken H's credit card to buy a gun not for hunting deer but for hunting myself - not something I would have done in my right mind). T2 told me I lacked integrity - but she didn't mean I had bad character. She meant I was not integrated as a person, a whole, both knowing my values and living securely in them. So - I have come closer to this - but yet further from being seen as a person of integrity in the eyes of my H or the eyes of my church friends/people. How ironic. Guess I'll have to learn to be content with self-respect (as well as hoping I have the approval of a certain higher spiritual being) and not lose hold of my own integrity/authenticity/values just for the sake of something that can be elusive/illusive like respect of others ..... I don't care if anyone reads this. It was just good for me to think it out and write it out. But if anyone read it and has a helpful perspective to offer me to help me balance out anywhere I may be unbalanced in my reasoning or too emotional about it, I am open to it. sigh. |
#23
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I think if you are happy/content/know how you want it to look and feel like you are on track (whatever the correct word would be here) with your relationship with your husband, then it is not really anyone else's business. Self respect is the better option between others and yourself - I believe. I respect you for doing what you think is best for you.
I admit I do not fully understand the relationship between you and your husband - or the church - but that is my problem-not yours. I think it can hit a lot of people who perceive some of it as oppressive (for example =a grown woman being told what she can view on the computer and when etc). I try to be supportive to the extent I can figure out how to be so in some situations you describe with your husband. I do respect you, it is just a very different situation than I understand. I wish I could think of a more clear way to write this, I feel quite clumsy here. Last edited by stopdog; Jun 15, 2012 at 09:33 PM. |
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#24
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I read this, SpiritRunner. I don't know if I have anything useful to say, but I wanted to say these things:
1. My wife keeps her diary (something she has done since she was a girl) out in the open on her dresser. I would never, ever read it, no matter what "promise" she had broken or whatever suspicions I had. Nor would I ever read her email, or search through her internet history to see what she's browsing around for. If I want to know what she's up to, I actually ask. These things are a violation of privacy, even between spouses. To me that shows both a lack of trust and a lack of respect. I would hope that you would feel empowered enough in your marriage to tell him to stop. Who wants to live with an amateur police detective rummaging about your private stuff? 2. I don't understand why you had to "promise" that you would not get on PC when he was home. I don't see what right he has to make you promise that. This is a place of support and connection for you, and he doesn't get to stop you from engaging in what is helpful and nurturing to you. As I think I told you before, I understand the impulse to *ask* for my spouse's undivided attention, but I don't get to demand it. I don't get to force and enforce "promises" that essentially tell her what she can do and can't do. I don't feel uncomfortable with your postings. I feel that you are pretty comfortable (meaning open) about your life. I admire the lack of judgment you have about your husband, i.e. refusing to label him as the jack@ss that I'm pretty sure most of us see him as. That shows a lot of acceptance towards him of his "quirks" and of how he treats you. I just hope your love and acceptance and lack of judgment is well-placed. I wish he could return even a bit of that to you. You deserve that. |
![]() karebear1, pbutton, SpiritRunner, whatbeanbelieved
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#25
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thanks much, stopdog and LMTL, I really really do appreciate your answers, support and input.
Stopdog, not to make you feel more clumsy or awkward (and you didn't come off that way, either, by the way), but I find it means a lot to me that you say you respect me. I value that. I may not always understand things about your experience or situation, either, but I can also say I respect you, too. LMTL - I have felt empowered, or at least bold enough, to ask him not to read my personal stuff. I have been direct and definite about my feelings on this and where my boundaries are. Something happened before, where he read my closure letter to my first T and I was furious. It came up in marriage counseling and the marriage T agreed that I did have the right to have some things private, that people in a marriage still had rights to have boundaries that the other one needed to respect. He apologized then, I accepted that. But his feeling then (and still) is that things shouldn't be hidden, that I was hiding things that shouldn't be hidden, that I should be telling him ALL these things and he had a right to know ALL of them. As if there weren't things he hadn't told me, too .... because there are .... things I learned later, and a sense of betrayal and manipulation that I have felt. However, I think there is good reason to NOT tell your spouse EVERYTHING! And I am living right in the middle of the reason why .... because some things are hard for your spouse to see and to deal objectively because they can be taken so personally or be easily misunderstood/misjudged, some things are hurtful and not beneficial to know. But dealing with them in a different arena, say in therapy or here on PC, allows them to be worked through without necessarily having to have such a detrimental effect on the relationship .... I am honest and open with him in many areas ... but not all things are safe to share, and not all things MUST be shared in order to still be honest and open. Nor would have I felt it wise, advisable or tactful to tell him certain things I did post here, things others said/felt ... hell, what good would it have done to bluntly point out, yeah others think you're a jack @ $$ .... but dealing with that here, with my feelings about that here, was a way to deal with them so they wouldn't bleed all over my communication with him later! But he looked, so he saw, so he felt cut and wounded, and there has been lots of blood. ![]() As far as why I had to promise .... well, his feelings is that this is not true connection .... that time spent here is like living in an illusion, that I'm spending time here trying to help people while neglecting my RL, neglecting him/the children, that I get obsessed, etc ..... I don't really know why all he has such strong feelings about it, there must be something deeper than even those things. I have tried to respect the way he feels about it, because he has a right to his feelings too and a right to have respect for them, but I still wish that he would learn to respect why this is important to me, that it is real/valid, that I can maintain a balance .. |
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