[Fixated]

Saw T for the first time in five months yesterday after being away. I was super anxious to be back there just talking again, not to mention that we had drama 3 weeks before I cam back where I felt desperate and asked my T for help. It just happened to be a holiday weekend (which I did not realize), so she said I could email, but that she couldn't set aside specific time or guarantee a response. I waited until holiday was over and then told her to forget about it. When she agreed, it pissed me off because I just thought if I meant anything to her she would realize I hate asking anyone for help and it was important and would have tried to set something aside. I sent a pretty scathing email.

Anyway, that's all she wanted to talk about yesterday on my first day back. I was hoping to just try and reconnect before delving into such a divisive issue. She said I set her up (which is probably true). She also said (rather condescendingly) that I never think of it from the other person's perspective. What it might be like to have someone constantly say you don't care and rebuff your attempts to help. She started to say she was angry but amended it to upset and frustrated.

No connection. No warmth. No compassion. Only challenge and coldness. I have this strong urge to email or text if only so we could get on better footing because this is affecting me in a greatly negative manner today. Unfortunately, she just left for vacation today. I don't want to bother her, and it would seem like such a repeat of the original offending issue.

What do you do when T is upset with you?

It would be one thing if we'd had a working connection. Idk.

[mixedup_emotions]

Wow, that must feel awful. I recall going through something similar with my T and it was incredibly painful.

I'd imagine that the most valuable thing you can do is take in your T's feedback and really work towards owning what's yours. I can understand your desire to focus on wanting to reconnect. It's hard to feel any sense of connection when there's turmoil.

[Fixated]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I recall going through something similar with my T and it was incredibly painful.

I'd imagine that the most valuable thing you can do is take in your T's feedback and really work towards owning what's yours.

What did you guys do to get over it? Were you able to store it away between sessions?

I do need to own my part more, and I plan to do some owning up next time, but admitting my needy and irrational emotions is just a painfully vulnerable process for me.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by Fixated

What did you guys do to get over it? Were you able to store it away between sessions?

I do need to own my part more, and I plan to do some owning up next time, but admitting my needy and irrational emotions is just a painfully vulnerable process for me.

I understand this oh so well. It is incredibly painful, and excruciatingly difficult. And the most important thing - the most difficult thing - is to take a step back and remember that this is a valuable opportunity to learn and grow. To understand yourself, and to work towards doing things differently.

When my T and I had that awful rupture, it was incredibly difficult to face my part....and to acknowledge it and truly own it. It felt nearly impossible to store it away between sessions, although my T encourages me to stay active - to go out and live, to focus on releasing that toxic energy by exercising or doing something active. And while in session, work hard to understand what led to what happened, my thoughts, my feelings, my actions and the impact it had on him and those around me. All, very important things.

Ultimately, you will get past this - and may even look back on it as a wonderfully valuable experience.

[WePow]

I would write out your emotions but not send them. Print them off and take them with you for the next session. What you have to say and what you feel is too important to disregard. But emailing them right now can cause further trouble. So say what you need to say when you need to say it... and let her listen when she is there to listen.

[Fixated]

Originally Posted by WePow

I would write out your emotions but not send them. Print them off and take them with you for the next session. What you have to say and what you feel is too important to disregard. But emailing them right now can cause further trouble. So say what you need to say when you need to say it... and let her listen when she is there to listen.

Ugh. You are right. And I know you are right.

I've done the letter thing in the past. I think I yearn for instant gratification this time because I just want to be special to my T...and to anyone really, especially if she's going to keep insisting I'm important to her and not just a job.

This is crap from my childhood. My parents focusing on my brother while I sat on the sidelines with what seemed like no love even though I tried to be perfect. I really dislike it.

Thank you for your wisdom.

I'm SO sorry. My 1st T got like that sometimes, and it just unnerved me.

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by Fixated

Saw T for the first time in five months yesterday after being away. I was super anxious to be back there just talking again, not to mention that we had drama 3 weeks before I cam back where I felt desperate and asked my T for help. It just happened to be a holiday weekend (which I did not realize), so she said I could email, but that she couldn't set aside specific time or guarantee a response. I waited until holiday was over and then told her to forget about it. When she agreed, it pissed me off because I just thought if I meant anything to her she would realize I hate asking anyone for help and it was important and would have tried to set something aside. I sent a pretty scathing email.

Anyway, that's all she wanted to talk about yesterday on my first day back. I was hoping to just try and reconnect before delving into such a divisive issue. She said I set her up (which is probably true). She also said (rather condescendingly) that I never think of it from the other person's perspective. What it might be like to have someone constantly say you don't care and rebuff your attempts to help. She started to say she was angry but amended it to upset and frustrated.

No connection. No warmth. No compassion. Only challenge and coldness. I have this strong urge to email or text if only so we could get on better footing because this is affecting me in a greatly negative manner today. Unfortunately, she just left for vacation today. I don't want to bother her, and it would seem like such a repeat of the original offending issue.

What do you do when T is upset with you?

It would be one thing if we'd had a working connection. Idk.

It's hard, but this happens in life
You will get on better footing, but it's important to stay with it and work through it and gain the useful knowledge that is there. It's important to look at the communication that took place: That you told her never mind, so she did. Then came the magical thinking that she 'should' know you didn't really mean what you said and that you needed something different. Another response to her could have been to say that telling her to forget it was not what you really want, you really do need to talk with her about what was going on.

It is one of those issues that is good to put yourself in the other person's shoes and imagine someone telling you to do one thing, but expecting you to read their mind and do something else. I feel frustrated when I think about it.

This is temporary and it will get better. It's important to focus on now and to not brush aside. It will feel really good to get through it and see that the relationship can survive and even thrive.

[Fixated]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

It's hard, but this happens in life
You will get on better footing, but it's important to stay with it and work through it and gain the useful knowledge that is there. It's important to look at the communication that took place: That you told her never mind, so she did. Then came the magical thinking that she 'should' know you didn't really mean what you said and that you needed something different. Another response to her could have been to say that telling her to forget it was not what you really want, you really do need to talk with her about what was going on.

It is one of those issues that is good to put yourself in the other person's shoes and imagine someone telling you to do one thing, but expecting you to read their mind and do something else. I feel frustrated when I think about it.

Thanks for your thoughts. Part of me knows that you are right, and I do want to own my part in it and try to see it from her perspective. It's hard because to me, being wrong means not being loved. And what if the only reason I feel I need to admit blame is simply because I don't want her to be mad at me anymore?

It's actually really hard for me to put myself in her shoes because I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I "care" about someone and try to help them, but they don't believe I care and say my efforts aren't good enough. I usually bail if the relationship become the least bit unequal.

[unaluna]

I admire you for being able to stay so conscious as to report what you did in the OP! I would never have even been able to HEAR that. I was in the same space in my family with my brother getting all the attention and me being the so-called good one.

Are you still in contact with your family? My bad communication "habits" could not be extinguished until I stopped seeing them, and just got positive reinforcement from T.

[Fixated]

Originally Posted by hankster

Are you still in contact with your family? My bad communication "habits" could not be extinguished until I stopped seeing them, and just got positive reinforcement from T.

I'm still very much entrenched within my family. Just graduate from college. Living at home for the summer. etc. It isn't healthy for the ED I developed, but it is what it is.

My feelings of not being cared about stem from an alcoholic father and my brother getting involved in drugs and just seemingly sucking up all of my father's love and attention. Then my mother was just blind to how it was affecting me ( but i also got pretty good at hiding it). Now I don't trust anyone.

I think my biggest fear with therapy is that I'll be forced to believe I was cared about and that my anger is unjustified. My therapist already sides against me and tries to have me see it as something that just happened and no one's fault in particular.

[mixedup_emotions]

I can very much relate to being the rejected one in the family, with my parents idolizing my sister and pretty much hating me.

Have you told your T about your fear with therapy - about being forced to believe you were cared about and that your anger is unjustified? Or, how your T appears to be siding against you? It may be worthwhile to address this.

[stopdog]

I don't worry about it if the therapist is upset with me. I don't think it matters and I don't think the therapist I see would bother with it. Plus, as I am usually frustrated or angry at her, if I thought she was upset I would think "good" now you know how I am feeling.

But I am sorry if you are having a hard time with it and the wait for the next appointment can be rough.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

Originally Posted by Fixated

I do want to own my part in it and try to see it from her perspective. It's hard because to me, being wrong means not being loved. And what if the only reason I feel I need to admit blame is simply because I don't want her to be mad at me anymore?

It's actually really hard for me to put myself in her shoes because I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I "care" about someone and try to help them, but they don't believe I care and say my efforts aren't good enough. I usually bail if the relationship become the least bit unequal.

You've identified your distorted belief really well-- being wrong means you're not worthy of being loved. That would be tough-- to have to be perfect, and it makes sense to me why you'd go to great mental gymnastics lengths to blame another person for what it really your responsibility.

I also think you could examine your behavior of "bailing" when you perceive relationships as unequal. IME doing the "bean counting" that underlies evaluating the equality in relationships is pretty destructive to them.

I like what Echoes had to say about the original incident, where you "magically" expected your T to be able to read your mind rather than Trust Your Words. Part of what seems wrapped up in that is that you seem to have some rules about what people who "care" about you do for you, and that will mess you up in relationships big time. No one will ever pass any test you have for them if "caring" automatically means that they must do x, y, or z or they don't "care." The other issue that seems to be lurking around you is that you feel you are entitled to have what you want, because It Is So Difficult For You to Ask. This is interconnected with your magical thinking about your T, she should know how hard it is. She may, but that doesn't mean that she will say this to you, or that you are owed anything special because of this.

I do think that you are working hard on these issues, but you may be off track by focusing on taking "blame" or falling on your sword or whatever with your T. Understanding it from her perspective only requires that you get the effect of your actions on others. I believe you can stretch yourself to see how a "scathing email" could be upsetting to someone no matter what. I've been both on the receiving and sending side of these. Reread your email and imagine that a friend sent it to You. How would it make you feel? It's not about blame, it's about understanding the emotional reactions and distorted cognitive beliefs that led you to write that email, and to have such a difficult time getting what your T is saying. She has a right to be angry when someone complains to her that she didn't do something she should have, despite being directly told the opposite. And she has a right to be angry about being accused of something she doesn't do (not care). Haven't you ever been falsely accused of something, or haven't you ever been in the situation where someone didn't believe what you said? That's the spot you put her in.

And from her comments, this is a pattern of yours. You may need to look more closely at your relationships with others and understand how your behavior affects other people.

[Fixated]

Originally Posted by ListenMoreTalkLess

I like what Echoes had to say about the original incident, where you "magically" expected your T to be able to read your mind rather than Trust Your Words. Part of what seems wrapped up in that is that you seem to have some rules about what people who "care" about you do for you, and that will mess you up in relationships big time. No one will ever pass any test you have for them if "caring" automatically means that they must do x, y, or z or they don't "care." The other issue that seems to be lurking around you is that you feel you are entitled to have what you want, because It Is So Difficult For You to Ask. This is interconnected with your magical thinking about your T, she should know how hard it is. She may, but that doesn't mean that she will say this to you, or that you are owed anything special because of this.

I do think that you are working hard on these issues, but you may be off track by focusing on taking "blame" or falling on your sword or whatever with your T. Understanding it from her perspective only requires that you get the effect of your actions on others. I believe you can stretch yourself to see how a "scathing email" could be upsetting to someone no matter what. I've been both on the receiving and sending side of these. Reread your email and imagine that a friend sent it to You. How would it make you feel? It's not about blame, it's about understanding the emotional reactions and distorted cognitive beliefs that led you to write that email, and to have such a difficult time getting what your T is saying. She has a right to be angry when someone complains to her that she didn't do something she should have, despite being directly told the opposite. And she has a right to be angry about being accused of something she doesn't do (not care). Haven't you ever been falsely accused of something, or haven't you ever been in the situation where someone didn't believe what you said? That's the spot you put her in.

Wow. A lot of brutal honesty in here. I think I am still trying to process it all.

A lot of truth, but I just have to wonder about defending her reaction to my email. She isn't my friend. She is my therapist, and it is her job to process and react to these things therapeutically. To put up with this because she more than anyone knows where it's coming from. Maybe, maybe she thought sharing her frustration would be therapeutic, but I don't think I was wrong to send the email because it was how I felt at the time.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

Originally Posted by Fixated

She is my therapist, and it is her job to process and react to these things therapeutically. To put up with this because she more than anyone knows where it's coming from. Maybe, maybe she thought sharing her frustration would be therapeutic, but I don't think I was wrong to send the email because it was how I felt at the time.

I don't hear your T saying that you were "wrong" to send an email that was true to your feelings. Rather, I think she is attempting to get you to both understand where your feelings come from and see your effect on other people.

And she is "putting up with" you. She didn't send you to another therapist because you sent this email. She gave you her honest reaction of frustration with you. And that is her job among many others-- not to be your punching bag-- but to let you know how your behavior and words affect her. That is extremely therapeutic, as you will have ZERO success with healthy relationships in the real world unless you really GET this.

But your feelings about her frustration would probably be great for you to explore in T, along with your sense that she is somehow being unfair to you.

[Fixated]

Originally Posted by ListenMoreTalkLess

I don't hear your T saying that you were "wrong" to send an email that was true to your feelings. Rather, I think she is attempting to get you to both understand where your feelings come from and see your effect on other people.

And she is "putting up with" you. She didn't send you to another therapist because you sent this email. She gave you her honest reaction of frustration with you. And that is her job among many others-- not to be your punching bag-- but to let you know how your behavior and words affect her. That is extremely therapeutic, as you will have ZERO success with healthy relationships in the real world unless you really GET this.

But your feelings about her frustration would probably be great for you to explore in T, along with your sense that she is somehow being unfair to you.

This is really, really hard. If I don't feel right then all I feel is worthless.

[SallyBrown]

I have to say I agree with ListenMoreTalkLess. Perhaps your T could have been less harsh, but I cannot fault her at all for being angry. And I do think sharing her frustrating can be therapeutic once the edge wears off. You said yourself you wouldn't tolerate this treatment from others. Why, then, do you think it's ok to treat your T this way? Do you really think she should just "put up with this" because she knows your background?

The real question that comes out of that is, how long do you want your behavior to be defined by your background, and at what point do you want to move on to healthy habits?

As a side note, I have had similar conflicts with my T, where I tell him to go away, get mad when he doesn't realize how much trouble I'm really in, he gets upset because he DOES care about me, and is upset because he WANTED to be there but *I* told him to go away. Don't you think maybe this is a sign that T really cares -- that she's frustrated that she can't be there for you when you need her because you expect her to know when you mean "never mind" and "not never mind"? It's a difficult trap for her to navigate: she takes you at your word, and you tell her it means she doesn't care, or she engages in the push-pull interaction that is really unhealthy and instead of encouraging you to ask for what you need, lets you get away with this just to avoid your telling her she doesn't care (because I would guess she DOES care, and probably really doesn't want to hear that she doesn't).

It's true that she should be able to work through this with you, and I hope you do. As a T, she should not hold this over your head, or terminate you, or anything like that. She can't do like an angry friend would do and just stop returning your calls. But she has a right to be angry. Sure, on a personal level, I have friends who do this CONSTANTLY -- e-mail me with pleas for help, and if I don't e-mail back fast enough, I get the "Oh, it's ok, never mind." When people have told me they need help, WITHOUT being passive-aggressive, I will fly across the country, take an unexpected day off work, talk on the phone well into the night. But I (and you, apparently) simply can't tolerate the push-pull dynamic where I am supposed to read a friend's mind and in order to be called "caring" or "helpful."

And it's true, you and your T aren't friends, and it is indeed a different dynamic. But it doesn't work in a professional setting, either -- if your boss told you to go to a conference knowing it was a really bad time for you, then said, "never mind" the night before the conference, you'd feel frustrated and trapped because you don't know if you should go because your boss seemingly wanted you to go up to that point, or if you should take care of all the other stuff you already had on your plate that made it hard for you to go in the first place. You could go, and resent the passive-aggressive e-mail, or you could not go, and risk getting slammed. Kind of a lose-lose.

Anyway, my point is, although I can totally relate to feeling like I just NEED someone to know that I'm not ok when I say I am, also because of childhood stuff, at the same time I know that this is an unfair expectation. Of everyone. Including my T.

[SallyBrown]

Originally Posted by Fixated

This is really, really hard. If I don't feel right then all I feel is worthless.

This is an extremely important insight. And something you really, really need to work on, because we are all wrong sometimes.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

Originally Posted by Fixated

This is really, really hard. If I don't feel right then all I feel is worthless.

Why is this a matter of right and wrong? I am not telling you that you are wrong. It's like you are shoehorning what is a very complex and multifaceted issue into a teeny tiny box. Good way to avoid the real issues, though, if that is your intent.

But however you feel gives you something to work on in T. It will majorly F up your life to see things as either you have to be perfect, or you are nothing. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone is wrong at times and there are few things in which it is certain that this is Right and the Other is Wrong.

[Fixated]

Originally Posted by ListenMoreTalkLess

Why is this a matter of right and wrong? I am not telling you that you are wrong. It's like you are shoehorning what is a very complex and multifaceted issue into a teeny tiny box. Good way to avoid the real issues, though, if that is your intent.

Because as a child that is all that made sense to me (I didn't get love or attention because I was wrong, so I tried to be perfect), and at 23, I'm not that far removed from the trauma of my childhood.

I have come a long way with my black/white thinking, but I don't believe there's as much gray as you claim. And knowing that the issue is complex does not undo 20 years worth of irrational thinking and programming.

[Perna]

I would try to amend my own thinking and wording from "upset with me" to "giving me her thoughts and feelings on the subject". She could have been like you and not shared with you how your behavior impacted her. I would stay with that positive, that she cares enough to let you know and think about what she actually had to say, rather than how you feel/perceive it.

I can get really tangled if I mix up my actions (sending/not sending negative emails) with how I feel and give my feelings priority over everything else. Feelings are to inform us, like our thoughts are, not goad us into action on their behalf.

Your thoughts and feelings are yours but your actions belong to all those around you, are public, especially if they are actions one-on-one with another. The thoughts and feelings are just backups to help us decide how to act, they should not be used alone for determining our action.

It is your perception that your T is upset with you. You should ask her if she is upset, check out your perception and/or decide if there is "cause" for her to be upset (and thus your perception could be correct for your own intents and purposes) and then fix the problem, not worry about your feelings.

The feelings just let you know there's a practical problem somewhere, they are not the problem themselves. If you feel lost because you feel your T is upset with you; work on your behavior causing her to be upset with you and the lost feeling will probably go away.

[Fixated]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

Have you told your T about your fear with therapy - about being forced to believe you were cared about and that your anger is unjustified? Or, how your T appears to be siding against you? It may be worthwhile to address this.

I've told her the first part, but she didn't have much of a reaction to that. It was also at the beginning of a previous rupture. I've never yet said it feels like she's siding against me. I think it will come out soon though. You are right that it needs to be talked about.

[here today]

I’m sorry, too, your T responded the way she did. I’m sorry that she didn’t address the underlying hurt in your scathing email before she addressed her own anger.

It sounds to me like her comment about your not understanding things from her perspective is projection. Yeah, OK, maybe you didn’t handle the drama so well but whoever told the therapy professionals that they could or should expect appreciation and understanding from their clients? Yes, it is great when the client gets well enough to do that, but to get angry (or even upset and frustrated) that it isn’t first on the client’s agenda?

Sorry, but if she can’t acknowledge and own her part, it sounds to me like you need to find another T. Look for someone who can accept a client who is -- for the present -- self-absorbed and not functioning perfectly. That's why we're in therapy, for heaven's sake!!