[Abby]

I'm not sure how much longer I can keep going for. I don't have any words that will do justice to the pain. I don't feel anyone can hear how desperate I am. I tell my therapist I need help to cope with the pain but all I hear over and over again is that I either 'just want to get rid of the pain' or that 'she is alongside me in it'. She doesn't get it at all! I cannot cope being so stuck inside myself any longer. I am genuinely really desperate. I need some relief from it.

I really don't know what to do. I was in such a bad place leaving therapy that I hurt my arm in the car before I drove home. I know she can't 'fix' it for me and really I don't expect her too as at this point I feel too hopeless that anyone can hear me enough to help...plus I don't know what would help me anymore. I'm so tired. I go to therapy week after week and I am exhausted from trying and seemingly getting nowhere. I go to my drs and there is nothing she can do to help...it isn't my brain that is not working right, it is me, my soul.

I want to self-destruct but I need to keep myself together. I have lots of things to do and that makes it all the harder because I can't smile but at the same time it will hopefully stop me going too far...

I feel that I am asking too much when I ask my therapist to help me. She is so kind and consistant and I do like her very much, but I need help to lessen the pain. All this provokes huge feelings of being a child and being left to cope with the pain. I needed help then and I need help now. Apparently I am doing things different being an adult and going to therapy and talking, but please can someone tell me a way to scream that I am not coping and need help NOW? ....I should talk to my parents about how bad this is but they aren't the professionals...besides what really can be offered to help? I've done it all....

I'm sorry this is such a disgusting splurge of desperation. I try so hard to keep going and I understand I need to go through the pain but how do I cope with it in the now? I am so sad.

[karebear1]

One of the best things I ever said to my T was "you guys all think this way, but that's not the way it is. You are not hearing me". That really caught her attention. She stopped looked at me ans said, "OK. What are you trying to tell me that I'm not hearing?". It was a real eye opener for me and her I think. I realize now that I only need to say those words and she'll stop and really listen.

Can you tell her she's not right in her assumptions about how you're feeling???

Abby- Maybe you need additional help? Sometimes people just need a break to regroup. That could be anything from a vacation to day therapy to inpatient treatment. I agree with Karebear, tell T you need HELP and the HELP T is giving, although appreciated, doesn't seem to be enough right now. Wishing you well.

[WikidPissah]

(((abby))) it's so difficult. You do need help, and you deserve it. I remember the time I actually told T "it's bad, please help me". He kicked into high gear. They only know how bad it is if you tell them. Have you told her?

[Abby]

Thank you for replying. I genuinely feel I am being as honest as possible about everything.

-I have spoken to her about my recent suicidal ideation and tell her about my self harm.
-I tell her that I have spent most days recently crying on and off.
-I tell her I feel stuck because I want to talk to my friends on the phone but I don't feel able to as I am too tired to do pleasantries and I can never be fully honest with them and so that is exhausting.
-I tell I am doing what I am currently (self-punishing/self-critical voice) because I have always used that method to keep going before and I don't know how else to retain any semblence of a life. And how important it is for me to try and keep something together when I've lost so much.
-I tell her how much I need to kick-start my life and how much I want to be able to be with friends and not have to always hide away.
-I tell her I try and be less judgemental of myself and use mindfulness to create some space between me and my feelings so they don't constantly overwhelm me.
-I tell her that I need help/methods/techniques to keep myself safe and try and bring about some raised spirits.
-I have emailed and told her that I really want her to see and hear what I am saying and that I am desperate.

-I sit in therapy and cry with tears rolling down my face saying 'I don't know how to go on'.
- I have brought books that she has suggested into therapy in the hopes of going through them and getting advice.

May be there is nothing she can do or say to help me? I'm starting to believe I should just shut up again because it seems like nothing I say seems to make any difference to how she treats me. May be I'm expecting too much?

She has given me mindfulness books to go and read and distress tolerance chapters of the DBT skills handbook and I read them and try to use them but it is hard to do all on my own. May be I am just being weak. I know I shouldn't self harm, I do know distraction ideas and I do try to use them except sometimes I get so demoralised/angry I can't see why I am trying so hard not to. I know it is my responsibility to keep myself going and she can only turn up and be consistant week after week to listen and help me to 'untangle it all'...but what happens when I can no longer take on that responsibility to myself?

I cry in therapy and although she is so kind and caring, when I leave I am sometimes in a worse place than when I entered. I am at the point where I cannot decide if therapy is helping me. Yes it is good to have a space to talk and be real with her, but shouldn't therapy be helping my real life? I have talked about all this with her too and she simply says that she can't make me continue with therapy but that I do find it useful as I do keep coming....and I do but at what cost?

I'm sorry again for the long, long splurge. I need to get it off my chest.

[bluemountains]

I am so sorry, Abby. Do you receive medical treatment as well? Your symptoms sound like the ones I have when in a deep depression. I have to survive on medicine, not to say it is for everyone. I also receive therapy and the two together keep me somewhat able to function normally.
Have you asked your t about possible other therapies you can receive elsewhere if talk therapy alone isn't working? Is she trained in other therapies? If she is just handing you books to read, it sounds like she is not trained in other methods.
I hope you will be able to explore other options that will work for you.
Bluemountains

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

Originally Posted by Abby

May be there is nothing she can do or say to help me? I'm starting to believe I should just shut up again because it seems like nothing I say seems to make any difference to how she treats me. May be I'm expecting too much?

It sounds like you are not getting the REACTION that you want from her. You are looking for something from her, could you put your finger in the neighborhood of what that is? Or is it that you feel like you are going downhill and you can't stop it, and you're worried what happens when you hit bottom? Both of these may be off the mark; that's just my impression from what you wrote.

But these questions would be great ones to raise directly with her. Please don't email them-- I think the likelihood of getting a therapeutic response via email is really quite slim, unless your T is particularly skilled at doing therapy by email-- which is not a claim I've heard any T make.

"I feel like maybe there is nothing you can do to help me".

"I feel that maybe I am expecting too much from therapy."

Just be as direct and clear as you have been here. If that doesn't lead to any resolution, maybe you need to ask her what else you should try in addition to therapy. Or maybe you need a new therapist, and she can help you with that.

[Bill3]

You mentioned DBT skills and how hard it is to work through the DBT skills workbbok on your own.

That is indeed challenging. That is one reason that, in DBT, these skills are taught in a group setting, which is in addition to individual therapy. Might there be a possibility of joining a DBT skills class?

we hear your pain♥

[Abby]

Thank you again for listening and offering advice - I really need someone to help point the way forward as I don't feel I'm being effective atm.

I am not on medication. My GP suggested I try an anti-psychotic to stabilise my moods a few months ago but I'm not too sure about that because it sounds quite extreme. I think I'm quite fearful of trying a medication like that with possible complications of heart problems when I'm not sure if it will help. Plus my parents researched it and they don't think it has be scientifically proven to be overly helpful, it seems more anacdotal evidence. Personally I have recently been desperate enough to contemplate it just in case it offers me some relief, but I know I shouldn't take something purely out of hopeless desperation because my expectations will be skewed.

I haven't asked my therapist about other types of therapy. I have told her that I am a layman in this area so do rely on her expertise to tell me that the type of therapy I am doing is the best treatment for me. I have progressed in this therapy, and it took I guess a year to feel we were working on the same page.

ListenMoreTalkLess - I think you are absolutely right that I am not getting the reaction that I want from her. I have been trying to figure out for a long time what would help me so I can tell her explicitly. I know I am very glad that she doesn't over-react to anything I say or do, but I guess there are times when she doesn't react enough and just lets me walk away feeling horrific, that I wish she was more active in reaching out to me. She is supportive, she lets me email her for connection between sessions and has offered me things to read...I'm not sure what that 'active reaching out' would look like. And I am aware that I am perhaps asking too much for her. I am afraid that I am too demanding!

I am going to take in those sentences you wrote out to my next therapy session because they do sum it up - I do feel like there is nothing she can do to help me...although she will probably say having this therapy space is something...I hate it when she says that because she's right it is something and I'm grateful for it, but it doesn't feel enough. I will be as direct as I possibly can talking to her, then at least I know there is nothing more I can do and that will may be help me know what to do next.

It is hard to know if I:
a) need more help atm
b) have too high expectations
c) am just in the wrong type of therapy now.
d) that this is normal and I'm just being weak/overly dramatic

Bill3 - what I know about DBT skills from the internet and the 2 chapters she gave me, it does feel challenging to do on my own. I don't know why she gave me those chapters if she never refers to them or asks how I'm going through the exercises. I expect she wants to be available to talk about what I wish too rather than getting involved in seeing what is helping and what isn't. So I can choose on my own what is helpful. ...But I would like to talk to her or someone about it because I don't always find it easy to do when I am in the middle of a 'mood' and I feel I might be doing it all wrong since it has helped so many other people. My parents want me to go through my GP and start DBT therapy so I can 'practise skills in real life slowly'....I agree although I find that slightly patronising(!) and I'm scared of being in a group because it feels very exposing...and I would be scared that the group will tell me to be different without being willing to understand that I can't/findit hard. But may be I should see if there is a waiting list I can get on for one in the future?...

Thank you again for offering a place to discuss all these issues and really over-whelming feelings.

[Bill3]

Thanks for your response.

what I know about DBT skills from the internet and the 2 chapters she gave me, it does feel challenging to do on my own. I don't know why she gave me those chapters if she never refers to them or asks how I'm going through the exercises. I expect she wants to be available to talk about what I wish too rather than getting involved in seeing what is helping and what isn't. So I can choose on my own what is helpful. ...But I would like to talk to her or someone about it because I don't always find it easy to do when I am in the middle of a 'mood' and I feel I might be doing it all wrong since it has helped so many other people.

DBT was not designed as a form of self-therapy, and I agree that trying to learn and practice DBT skills on your own can be quite challenging and frustrating. You could talk to your T specifically about the skills. However, in DBT, skills training is done in a group setting to avoid taking up precious individual therapy time on a set of skills that are useful to, and can be communicated to, several people at once. (Of course, one also has an individual therapist in DBT).

My parents want me to go through my GP and start DBT therapy so I can 'practise skills in real life slowly'....I agree although I find that slightly patronising(!)

When put that way--practice skills in real life slowly--it does sound patronising to my ears as well. I think what is meant is that people who have difficulty with the skills taught in DBT can really benefit from DBT. For example: interpersonal effectiveness--being able to say "No", being able to ask for what is wanted, being able to negotiate--and other DBT skills can go a long ways towards making life worth living, rather than something to struggle through and cope with.

DBT offers a structured way to learn those skills. I don't think that the learning is intended to occur slowly. The entire structure of DBT is based on respecting clients, seeing them eye-to-eye, not patronising them.

and I'm scared of being in a group because it feels very exposing...and I would be scared that the group will tell me to be different without being willing to understand that I can't/findit hard. But may be I should see if there is a waiting list I can get on for one in the future?...

I agree that a group can feel very exposing. DBT groups are intended to be a little different, though, from what I understand. They are in some respects more akin to a classroom setting than to regular group therapy. There are specific skills to impart, and the group therapist/teacher is specifically instructed to avoid getting into detail about each individual situation.

I won't deny that a DBT group session is more exposing than being one-on-one with a therapist. However, I wonder if you could inquire a bit with people who have benefited from DBT? Or maybe meet with a DBT therapist to get a better explanation and answer some questions? Recall that at its very beginning, DBT was specifically designed to help people with strong, enduring suicidal ideation. And, in study after study it has proven itself to be effective. These are reasons that I am thinking DBT might help you, and why I encourage you to look further into it and maybe, as you suggested, be on a waiting list while you are learning more about it.

[Abby]

I spoke to my therapist about how I was feeling and she said that in outpatient therapy it is expected that a person is able to cope with therapy. She said she would be willing to talk about it if I want to change therapists (I've talked about this with her quite a lot before) but I think knowing me so well she challenged me to think if I felt that going somewhere else I would be different and any less resistant to therapy especially a type of therapy with 'homework'. I had to agree with her that I likely wouldn't be any different because actually it is a big deal to me that she seems to like me and hasn't rejected me despite me being a royal pain in the arse sometimes! That is rare for me! Plus I can be incrediably stubborn and as much as I want an instruction booklet to get better, there is also a part of me that would probably tear it to shreads if I was given it.

I need to confront the part of me that seems to be getting something out of being depressed, withdrawn and not wanting to make healthy/wise choices. I am not acting this out in any conscious way because I desperately want out of the pain, and I hate it whenever my therapist tells me I'm being resistant because to me I hear it as 'you are not good enough' 'you are being too difficult'...but I guess I need to admit some masochistic part of me is getting something out of all of this. I have no idea how to figure out what it is though, and it is difficult to talk this through with my therapist because the very nature of it wants to avoid being exposed!

Bill3 - thank you for your reply. It was very useful and helpful to understand a bit more about DBT. I think there are skills within it that could be very useful for me too. I have been reading about mindfulness and trying to put it into practise but I'm not always that successful. I think the next time I see my GP I may ask abit more about it and if there are any groups in my area.

Also don't rule out medicine. I take medicine and I was where you are with the deep depression and the meds coupled with therapy have done wonders.

[karebear1]

About the meds- if you're leary ABOUT USING MEDS TO HELP THINGS OUT, you might feel more comfortable going to a psychiatrist (vs. a GP) that has an expertise in psychopharmacology. My Pdoc is awesome with prescribing meds for me. It took me almost a year before I would take anything and when I finally decided I'd try, she took it little by little and let me make the decisions about when I thought I needed to add more or someting else. Pdoc knew my fear of meds, so I literally started out taking just a small nibble of the lowest dose of the pills she wanted me to and worked up from there. Because of the way she worked with me, I was soon able to fully trust her recommendations for meds. I don't know what I'll do when she decides to retire. I suspect finding a Pdoc like her might be very hard to do.

[Abby]

Thanks for your advice. I am hesitant about the anti-psychotic medication because I simply don't know much about it. My GP got advice from a pdr that I had seen but I felt was incrediably unhelpful and misunderstood me entirely. She said that it may help stabilise my moods but couldn't really answer how or why except to say that it would be offered to treat my symptoms not because I have any diagnosis. It seems like a big thing to take on the off-chance it might do something.

I'm not sure what to do. Perhaps I am doing all that I can and should just accept the limitations of my life. It is hard work trying to maintain myself when my emotions are so destructive! Or is that an excuse and a way out of doing things I am fearful of?

It is hard to find a way forward. I feel exhausted from living such a half life and I'm pretty darn ashamed of who I am. I'm trying to work in therapy to find and start standing on my own feet but it is a difficult thing to do when I have lost all confidence in my abilities and it means that I am reliant on people more and more.

It is really horrid having to face myself every day. I feel in so many ways I am exactly the same person I was when I joined here 8 odd years ago - that is really embarrassing to admit too! I am aware of exasperating I can be not getting any better. It isn't for lack of trying though. If there was a medication that could make the world a 1000x times less scary or me a 1000x more confident, then I would take it in an instant!

[Bill3]

It is hard work trying to maintain myself when my emotions are so destructive!

Developing skills for the regulation of emotions is a centerpiece of DBT. As you mentioned, I do hope that you will look into DBT and see what you think!

[Big Mama]

I feel terrible for you. I do understand though. I am the same way. It is so difficult to talk about all this stuff and then you go home and live with everything you have dug up. One session makes the rest of the week almost impossible to bear. Then you have everyday bs to deal with throw in a little depression and YIKES!!! what a messed up day, week, month. Don't forget some hormones for extra tourture. Good grief. I was see ing 3 T at the same time. M, W, F, in home care, Th evenings Trauma, Tues morning my teenage sons T, who ended up helping me as well. I had a lot of help and it was so good to have someone there everyday to hold my hand and see me threw. I called, wrote, requested additional visits what ever it took. After 6 mo. I've weaned down to 2 T's. I still have the Tues & Thurs. I still call and write. I've gotten down to the Tues every other week. It is very stressfull. But I still have her and my Thurs T every week. I joined this site and I don't seem to be nearly as needy. I dump just about everyother day. It does help and everyone here is so understanding.

I also see a P doc. Life is so much better after meds. Wow!! You should have seen things before meds. This is bad but before was worse. The meds actually gave me my life back. I was so afraid to take them. I took 1/2 of the lowest dossage by my choosing. I worked up to the right amount and increased when necessary.

With friends here, meds and T's life is doable. Who says what is normal for one person is normal for everyone. What works for you and gets you threw the day is what you need.