Learning NOT to ask for what you need?

We talk a lot about therapy being a place to learn to ask for what we need, and experience our needs being met. I am quite good(!) at asking for what I need with partners and with T, to the point of almost orchestrating the whole thing. I think it's because I don't trust others to know me well enough to be able to identify what I need, or to be attuned enough to do it at the right time. This has come up in therapy recently and I know T is right about me, but I'm just so flooded with shame about it it's like I lose my ability to think or function. I just wondered if anyone else has similar problems?

Maybe I am picking this up all wrong but it sounds to me like its a control thing with you? Feel free to contradict or correct me if I am worng. Maybe you need to realise that other people do know what you need sometimes and that, trust in other people, well it feels good to let someone take care of your needs sometimes.

I do not understand how what you describe is a problem.

I was wondering that too, stopdog, as I posted. I think T is saying that it's a problem for those around me because the other person feels controlled. They experience me as demanding. T is also saying that it reduces the meaningfulness of what they do for me, because they were 'made' to do it. To be honest, I don't fully get the 'meaningfulness' argument. Perhaps it reduces the meaningfulness to them, but not for me. What is meaningful to me is getting what I need when I need it. I suppose it is problematic for me because it drives away the people I most want to be with me. And because I never learn that others will do what i need without me asking (if this is true, which I'm not sure about).

It does sound pretty demanding of other people (only basing this on what you've said obviously). People are generally fairly capable of cluing in to what we need if we just give them enough of our trust to give them the time to act on their own. Clearly that isn't true all of the time, and some people remain completely clueless. But with your T for instance, what would happen if you sat back and allowed her to decide for herself what perhaps you might need? Is it possible you are demanding what you believe you "need" but you actually might be missing something that other people actually see you need and in fact dismissing others' suggestions that could really be helpful to you? (Again, just guessing here.)

I did not read the original post as a demand for something from others. But I agree demanding of others is generally not useful. I rarely ask others for stuff, but when I do, I am quite specific.

Sometimes ppl give us what we need sometimes they don't. It's their decission- or at least it should be.
Asking for what you need it absolutely OK- you're not doing it 24/7, I presume . (if done constantly it could be a bit discouraging for others to deal with)
However, demanding what you need from others or "making" them do it is a completely different thing...

Maybe the problem is only the degree to which you ask for things? I think it's essential that we be able to speak up and ask for things that are important to us. However, if we do it constantly, then it may be a problem. Constantly being in control can be off-putting to others.

I don't think you should feel ashamed of this. It's just the flip side of NOT being able to speak up for what we need, which is my problem. And yeah, I'm kind of ashamed of that, so I know of what I speak. It's the middle ground we need to find, a balance.

This is something you should be able to improve by talking about it in therapy. If you can put aside the shame and work on it, I really believe you can find that balance and let go of some of that control. When you do, I think you'll find that it's really a relief - it takes so much effort to be in control all the time, and then there's the fear of what will happen if you're NOT in control.

I think, for me, it is just easier not to bother with the other person part of it. If other people are not a part of it, then they can't screw it up and I am not controlling them. I find others are rarely needed for me. I try to involve others more when it is a sort of want - then if they do it all wrong, it is not so critical.

Maybe the issue is that after you ask then you can't just sit back and be patient but you plan out everything that they need to do and how they should do it?

I think that an important thing to consider for this is how you got to this point. What makes you need to do this?

Thanks everyone. I realise from your replies that I am quite unclear about what I actually do and what is problematic. I have asked T for things and she has said things like 'yes of course' and never even hinted that it was problematic. Now after 3 years it feels like she is rewriting history by turning around and saying she felt 'made' to do everything. It feels gutting actually. I am just running through in my head all the things she has done for me and wondering if they were all meaningless because I just orchestrated the whole thing.

I am just all over the place. When I started with T, we agreed that the contingencies for everything would be totally clear. For example, she would *never* just randomly contact me- because then I would be in constant hope that she would do it again, would be trying to work out what had made her do it, so I could do it again. Instead, we have had a very predictable relationship. We agree what our contact will be like, and that's how it happens. If I need something extra, I can ask and she will do it if possible. Over time I have become able to cope with her doing the odd spontaneous thing e.g. buying me a card in a shop just because it reminded her of me without wanting it to happen again or trying to make it happen again. *However* thinking about it now, she didn't give me the card at that time- she did it at a predictable time (a time when she would always give me a card). I don't know what to think about anything that has happened, or anything that will happen from here.

Are you going to continue to discuss this with her so that everything is more clear?

MM - I am sort of confused - but is the therapist now saying you made her get you a card or whatever because you specifically told her your needs? Sorry to be thick about this - or feel free to ignore. I am just trying to get more of a handle on the situation. It is always possible that more astute persons on this board will be more in tune than am I.

There's give and take and it sounds like you don't give others an opportunity to give to you, unasked, out of their own hearts, bounty, free will.

When I was turning 21, I "ordered" my college roommate to give me a surprise party. I put a note on the outside door of my room saying I had gone to the library including when I would be back, then locked the door from the inside and hid in the closet most of the day. I don't like surprises or being the center of attention if I am not in control

I had a hard time at my wedding reception too, because I was the bride and had to be the "star", with people congratulating me, giving me gifts, asking me how I was, etc. I was "seen" and had no control, could not "sneak off" or take my submarine and submerge if I felt like it, LOL.

Asking for what you want is great but it sounds like there is no opportunity, no "space" for others to offer you what you want or for any spontaneity in your response, "Would you like a cookie?"/"Oh, now that you mention it, that does sound good! Thank you!" Instead, you muscle through the crowds across the room to the person holding the plate and ask, "Can I have a cookie?" You don't wait and see if good things come to you, you don't expect them to (the cookie lady would make her way around the room, you don't have to muscle through the crowds). Maybe practice anticipating and seeing if good things will come your way with no effort on your part?

You can still let other people know what you like but that is not the same as asking for something. "I like hugs" might get you a "free" hug, you can't know, and that is both exciting (will I get a hug?) and interesting (who gives you hugs and who does not?). But if you go up to someone and say, "Can I have a hug?" you miss out on the other person and whether they "want" to give you a hug anyway (whether they are use to and comfortable giving and getting hugs) and it's a one-off experience because it's only dry cause and effect, no real interaction, communication or information coming with the hug.

My daughter-in-law gives spontaneous hugs, I do not. I have become a better hugger myself because of the interaction between my daughter-in-law and myself; I'm more comfortable giving and receiving hugs because of the practice with her. How would that be different if I had gone up to her when we met and said, "May I have a hug?" There would be no practice in receiving. There would be no spontaneous practice, the waiting to see what kind of person I was dealing with (in case I get another friendly "stranger" who is a hugger). I can give and receive all kinds of hugs now and tell you more about hug types than I could if I just asked for hugs individually, when I wanted.

Thank you so much, TheBunnyWithin. I have read something similar before- that it is more exhausting to try to get others to take care of you, than to just take care of yourself. But the thought of being at T's mercy and having to be quiet and just hope is terrifying. I know that sounds dramatic but it's the only word that fits. I will be constantly having to bite back my words, afraid to ask for anything or afraid to say anything which could be construed as asking for anything. I feel like I will be in constant fear of not having what I need, constantly hoping, constantly having to deal with crashing disappointment. I feel like the only way I can cope with that is to shut myself off from the things I was getting from her, and to tell myself they are gone for good. That is better than just waiting and waiting and hoping and hoping that one day she will just randomly decide to do them.

My partner used to say that I didn't trust her, on some deep level, and I think the same is probably true with T too. I trust her to meet the needs which *I* identify and directly ask to be met, but I don't think I trust her to get it right on her own. For example, T and I sometimes have a hot drink together (if I ask) and occasionally have a snack together (at my initiation, and agreed in advance) if we're celebrating something in particular. These are both really meaningful for me- being able to look forward to them beforehand, enjoy them in the moment, and remember them afterwards. It feels very attuned to what I need at the time. But a couple of weeks ago, T randomly went out before my session and got us frozen yoghurt. I was highly distressed that week and wanted to talk about stuff that had been happening with my family and have space to grieve (she knew this). The yoghurt thing just felt so incongruous- T ate hers while I was talking about really emotional stuff, and mine melted into a puddle because I couldn't bring myself to eat what had previously been our 'party food' when I was grieving deeply. It's clear now that for T this was deeply meaningful, because she had done it off her own back rather than being asked. But for me it was jarring and a bit frightening. But I can't tell T this, because I don't want to hurt her (it was a really kind thing for her to do), and I know it would just reduce even further the chance that she'll ever do anything nice for me again, which I'm already so frightened about.

minny, I think you need to talk to T about the frozen yogurt. YOUR fears about her reaction now, and not wanting to face it - that's a rupture between you two. She didn't die when you didn't eat your yogurt, and she didn't kill you for not eating it - so it's safe to talk about it now. I know that sounds funny, but I am one hundred percent serious. It will be awkward, but you can gain so much fRom it.

Getting what a person wants is ok but are you a person who pushes boundaries?

I have a friend who is like this and I liken it to my 7 year old who has been told no and then comes back to me a few minutes later and asks for the same thing with a slightly different alteration to see if I'll then say yes (instead of respecting the first no). It has gotten to the point where our friendship is in jeopardy because I'm feeling very defensive in our conversations. Anytime she asks me what I'm doing that day I feel I have to be 'busy' with something to do or she will ask me to do her a favor. I don't mind doing favors but not every day I have my own problems and my own life I need to deal with There have been several occasions when I've done a favor for my friend and I really didn't want to do it. Not to mention the 1 hour of watching her kids that turned into 4