[lornalady]

Hi all. I'm new to this forum, and I don't think I will be using it much, so I'll just do a short presentation in this thread before I move over to my question.

Guess this may be triggering to some, please be aware.

I'm a female, 28 years old. I have been struggling with depression more or less since early teens. Some times depressed, some times just in a flat mood, sometimes feeling good about myself and life but with some bearable issues.

I have been close to seeking help a few times, but been to afraid to do so, feeling to evil to deserve help and also that my problems really wasn't that big.

Especially the last to years have been really good for me. I have had a close relationship to my SO for five years, I have achieved some goals in life, renovating our house, taking up some physical activity, and I have gradually got more and more energy and I have felt more joy in life.

In April, I found out that my SO had been cheating on me with a woman several times during the weekend (I found out the same week) and my bubble bursted. He was lying about it but I found out more and more after putting pressure on him. He wanted to continue our relationship and claimed he love me deeply. I wanted to try to continue as well, but since he have been the one I turn to for talking about personal stuff, and I could not do this now because of the situation, and I don't have anyone else I trust, we decided I should seek help with a psychologist.

I got an appointment with an older woman. In the first session, she said she is controversial, but very good at her work and highly respected as a specialist in psychotherapy. We talked about my life, about my childhood, my school and work situation and I told her about a SU attempt in my teens. I liked her immediately. She seemed firm, but emphatic.

The second session I decided to tell her about a horrible thing I did in my past. She didn't reject me, but she said she needed to feel in her stomach what the information did to her. I was glad she didn't throw me out of the office, and i guess she acted as expected in the situation, I don't think any sane person would not have felt uncomfortable about it.

Third and last session. We started talking about my relationship issue with SO. I told her that I rationally could see why he had sex with the other women - since I have had sex with her myself, with his explicit consent, and that we had an agreement that I could have sex with other women, but if he was to, I would have to bee there and take part of it. T seemed completely shocked, and asked me if I am lesbian, something I'm not, I just think it's exciting. I don't exactly remember everything that was said after that. But I told her that we was going to couple therapy the next day, and she was completely against it, and said we should fix this on our own. We got into the subject BDSM, and I told her I was a masochist. She told me that I can't have children (I told her the first session I don't want children, ever), that we wasn't suitable as parents with our sexlife. She said she wasn't sure how to handle this, and kept talking about a famous sex therapist in the country, and that she had to feel what this did to her and her emotions. She was angry, and I felt little, but could't do anything but laugh at her, as I felt the situation absurd. She said that she felt I wasn't willing to talk about my masochism (I really don't, since I don't feel I have an issue with it). I told her I have had this feelings since I was a kid, and that its just a part of who I am. She then asked if the horrible thing I did in my teens didn't matter to me after all, and I was just shocked and could't say anything. She said I had used the other woman, that I don't have boundaries and kept telling me what a horrible person I am. The session went ten minutes over time, and when I walked out I felt destroyed. She was going on vacation for six weeks, and I felt that this was really my last session with her. In our written contract it says that I can cancel the therapy basically whenever I wan't, but she can not. She told me in the first session that she will never one day say that this is the last session. But during this last session she said that she didn't knew if she was able to work with me, that she was not a sex therapist.

I strongly felt she wanted to get rid of me. The following weeks I was in a sort of chaos of thoughts. I wanted to kill myself, and it felt kind of I was one of Franz Kafka's main characters, it felt really, really dark.

When the time of the next session got closer, I was sure I didn't want to go back. Some days after the session was supposed to take place, I received a letter from her, also sent to my main doctor, where she wrote this (among some other things): "last session here she was not ready to put the crisis with SO and the depression in connection with her ​​previous life, and her way of being. She got an session today where we were to problematize this further."

So I wonder. Is this something normal to do in therapy? Was she playing angry? Was it some kind of technique she was using, or am I right in thinking it was her way to get rid of me?

I can see that she is right in many of the things she said to me, and I can definitively understand she don't want to work with me.

I'm sorry this became a long text, and I'm grateful for your time and help!

Best

Hi lornalady, and welcome! Thanks for posting this. From where I'm sitting, I think your T is out of line, and you need to find a T who a) does not mind you going to couples therapy with your SO, and more importantly b) isn't judgmental about the way you as consenting adults choose to have sex. Her reference to your "way of being" creeps me out a little, it sounds like she's making a moral judgment about your lifestyle and your sexual orientation, which is just not on, not for a therapist. And why on earth did she need to make an uninformed and uncalled for judgment call on your suitability as parents, especially since you'd already said that that wasn't going to happen anyway??

I didn't quite understand if there was a fourth appointment that you did not go to? If so, have you decided what you want to do about that in future?

You deserve to get help from somebody who acts as a professional. This wasn't it, and I'm really sorry you had to go through that.

I agree with Apt, therapist are not supposed to pass judgement and if your sex life is something she is not comfortable with , yet you are, then she is not the one for you. All that stuff about feeling it in her gut would have put me off too as some kinda hocus pocus. Unfortunately there are therapist out there that run the gamete from Awesome to horrid. If you seek another, I would be upfront about your being a sexually adventurous couple and make sure that was going to be a non issue for them before proceeding.This was obviously an issue for her. Keep posting and welcome.

Hi lornalady, welcome to PC. I with Apteryx and LC on this. It sounds like your T was being very judgmental with you. It also seems odd for her to discourage couples therapy if both you and your SO are willing to do that and wanting to work on your relationship.

I don't know if I would be called a masochist, but I do have issues with sub/Dom r/s. when I brought it up with my T his reaction was accepting. He asked if my desires to submit are hurting anyone and the answer is no. I know that this stems from a desire to be cared for and my experience with s/D has been a loving one. For me it's about the security of relinquishing control to someone who isn't going to abuse that.

He was concerned that people who want to control every aspect of someone's life typically lose control with it because of where that controlling desire stems from. He had me asking myself if I really needed to be completely controlled and wanted that and I was able to see that the answer is no. He had me asking if I could participate in r/s in which only some control was relinquished and the answer was yes.

He never said I wasn't fit to be a parent. I don't see how your adult sex life anything to do with your kids. Have you ever questioned why you like engaging in this? I know the answers surprised me when I thought about it.

I hope you can find a professional T who is willing to help you with the issues you want to address.

[lornalady]

Thank's very much for your reply Apteryx!

I'm glad you think my gut feeling is not way out of league about this. I think i wan't to search for a new T, but I am a little scared that this is what it's supposed to be, and that what I did when young is so terrible that no T wants to have anything to do with me.

About my way of being. I feel like I am a narcissist or something after this, and I get the feeling that's exactly what she thinks too. In the last (third) session she said I am tricking everyone, dressing in nice clothes, no make up etc, acting innocent, and still having the sex life I have and am the person I am. I didn't know there was a dress code for a masochist or that we should behave a certain way or that my neighbors have the right to know how I am having sex, but I still kind of agree with her in some of this, I do sometimes feel I am having a double life since I am so shy, most people think I'm way more innocent than I am. But I feel the problems is my shyness, that I am afraid of peoples reactions when I do speak my mind, not my sex life. (Apart from the fact she is very right about my lack in boundaries, I do have problems saying no and knowing where my limits are and I do have crossed them a hundred times without even realizing before now.)

I think she thinks that I really do want children, but I'm afraid of the responsibility because of that horrible thing I did when I was younger, that I have shut myself off the thoughts of being a parent, and I'm not sure, but she may have right in this as well.

This sessions was before her vacations. I had a fourth appointment after the vacation, but I felt that I just could not go, since I was pretty sure she didn't want me to come back. She has told me before that if someone don't show up without warning, she calls quit. So when I didn't show up, she sent this letter to my doctor, with a copy of it for me.

I mentioned her at the couples therapy (which is great by the way) and the guy told he know about her, and yes, that she is controversial.

Again, I'm really thankful for your reply. I'm so confused and it helps to get someone else opinion on this. There are things I feel she is very right about, and at the same time I felt so little and awful and lacking in moral.

I agree with everyone too, Your T is judging you, I would find another one who you feel comfortable with. welcome.x

[unaluna]

i'm in disagreement here. Sometimes countertransference means that the T feels the feelings that the client is in denial about. For example, this T feeling something in her gut could be demonstrating her empathy for the OP's "horrible deed". Lorna gives us 4 main points of her life - why do you think they are unrelated? Why does her BF sleeping with their mutual GF cause such anguish if Lorna really is okay with it? Lorna, you can't have it both ways - on the one hand, T tells you straight out she cannot be JUST your sex therapist - in her opinion, there are other things in your life that need addressing; she ACCEPTS that you are unwilling to look at those things; she feels in HER gut that you have unresolved feelings (as do i) and is not going to fight with you or try to change your mind or see things her way. She is just not going to continue to work with you, and she explains to you and your doctor why. This is perfectly reasonable after the first 3 sessions of getting to know someone.

On the other hand, if you were interested in opening up and looking your entire life, and HAD gone past the initial sessions, then the contract for her not to terminate would apply.

I'm saying, look at; I'm not judging. But having had parents who associated love with pain, yeah, I feel entitled to judge a little bit. It's yucky from the kids' side, just in case.

[anilam]

1. What two or more (or less) consenting adults do is no one's business- let alone T.
2. I find it weird that a T would be against couple therapy.
3. I'd terminate her the minute she said you're not fit to be a parent- that's a cruel judgment (doesn't matter whether or not you want kids).
You really don't need another person judging you- you are already being too harsh on yourself.

Also I don't understand why she sent the letter to your doc too...

[lornalady]

Thank you all for your input on this and for a great welcome!

I guess I thought different sexuality practices was so common in society today, I have never before met someone being judgmental of it. Curious, wondering, felt it kinda weird, but respected it. But of course they may not have said what they really thought of it. At least, I have never been rejected by someone for this when I have been open and talked about it. Therefore in my naivety I really didn't think it would be an issue for a psychologist, and I also didn't think it would be a subject at all in therapy, but when she mentioned it, I felt I should tell her about how I'm put together. I was already ashamed after telling about what was going on behind the infidelity issue, and her reactions to it, and I felt that I could not defend myself, partly because I didn't find words, partly because I felt I deserved everything she said. So I am not sure if was able explain everything completely as I feel it is to her, I could not get myself to use exact words and tried to explain things by going slightly around the business. Don't know if it matters, but I suppose there is possible she would have reacted different if I was able to sit straight and look her in the eyes and not feeling ashamed and not laugh and smiling unapropriate. So I don't think I completely disagree with Hankster either. I think what Hankster is saying is at least some of the reason I feel confused about it.

[lostgman]

I agree with anilam on all three points. You should seek out another therapist. My wife has sought out therapy several different times over the years for for SA. As soon as she mentioned bdsm, the judge and jury would appear and she would walk out the door. This past year when we moved, my therapist set us both up with a new therapist in our new location. My therapist descibered her as "crazy" but very good, and thought she could help both of us. My issue is CPTSD, my wife's SA, our problem together is not being able to commuicate with each other reguarding our issues. My wife was reluctant but agreed to go. Our first session was as a couple...I will never forget it....the first words out of my wife's mouth...."If you have a problem with bdsm or bisexuals, let me just save us both the time and trouble and leave now." My jaw dropped. The therapist response, "Hell no, I think we all deserve a good spanking from time to time...it's just that most of us are afraid to admit it." That one statement gained my wife's trust and she has been able to talk to someone for the first time in 25 years about her abuse. She does not condone nor condemn my wife's coping mechanisms....but she is trying to help her change them. My point is...there are therapist out there that may not condone what you are doing, but are able to put there personal feelings aside, and not judge, to give you the help you need. You just have to find the right one.

By the way, we have 3 kids, and my wife is an awesome mom. What happens in our bedroom, stays in our bedroom. I don't see where we would ever have to explain anything to our kids. Bedroom doors have locks for a reason.

[unaluna]

and if I can play rough for just a tiny minute: apteryx, you got upset about not being allowed to share your T with a friend, even tho the decision was out of your hands - I see that as being similar to this situation, but instead of sharing that you also were upsEt (altho I know you might say it's the opposite situation, I think it's two sides of the SAME coin, the same need, tho i'm not sure what that need is - I admit my dumbness there?!) - anyway, you jump in and say, oh no, lorna, you should feel FINE about all this - but the fact is, she doesn't, and we could be telling her, it's okay not to feel fine about this. she said the bubble burst. she doesn't have to feel guilty, but she doesn't have to continue if it's no longer right for her.

Um. Colour me officially confused. I'm afraid I can't make any sense out of your comment, hankster. lorna can feel whatever she likes. However, since her T's actions caused her to want to kill herself, I'm not going to apologise for thinking that her T was out of line. How this is related to my attempts to help somebody else find a therapist is difficult for me to understand.

[unaluna]

it's about being forced to share - ie give up your claim to - the object of your affections? which I think equals survival. or feels like it.

ETA: maybe i'm being overly dramatic or symbolic. i'm most definitely not explaining myself well. I am not criticizing apt for wanting to help a friend. i'm saying it's a grand ideal that's hard to live up to. when you were not allowed to even try, even being denied the opportunity to try - maybe being denied the opportunity to prove one's self invincible? - was painful. in these cases, maybe it's scarier to be selfish and say we want exclusivity (of BF or T) - because what if we lose the contest? It's easier to be "cool" and say, oh, I don't mind sharing - oh, as long as it's under my control, as long as I know about it.

Been there, done that, and am currently STILL working on it myself, just so you don't think I am lecturing fRom on high - I do have a dog in this race

I agree Hank , I had no idea where that was coming from or going.

[unaluna]

I tried to explain above. I keep going thru iterations of this concept in my therapy. I think it's along the lines of sibling rivalry.

Originally Posted by hankster

I tried to explain above. I keep going thru iterations of this concept in my therapy. I think it's along the lines of sibling rivalry.

Unfair .... You edited your post after my post....there has got to be some kind of law about this... Lol

[unaluna]

fankyou oh I mean i'm sorry and you're welcome.

[lornalady]

Just to get something clear.

I am NOT okay with SO sleeping with another girl. We had an agreement that it would not happen. If it where to happen I had to be there and take part so there would not be an jealousy issue (we had talked about this, and we both agreed on this). He was free to spank others and some other things, but not anything involving sex. I trusted him, and didn't ever believed he would go behind my back. The way I see it, it's like "normal" infidelity. Our limits may have been wider than some others (some may set the limit with dancing with another, some with hugging, some with watching porn and some may bee free to do whatever they want, etc.), but it was still a limit, and he broke it and went behind my back and lied.

First, he was very defensive when we talked about it, and I was angry. I felt he said all the wrong things.
When at couples therapy I learned that he really was ashamed when he was defensive, and he learned how it felt to me when he reacted that way. He accepted that he should not have a "private" life for a while, and now he is encouraging me to check his emails, cellphone etc. (and I don't feel the need to do so that much, since he isn't bothered with it, so I guess things are stabilizing.)
He have agreed to not do anything with other women, no spanking, no flirting on Facebook, no suspension and all those things I didn't bother with before. And he knows that I neither will do anything with other woman as long as we are together.

When it comes to our sexlife, there is at the moment almost no sexlife. We have agreed to start fresh step by step, little by little. I really need to find my limits after neglecting them for years, and I guess it wont happen very fast. But he is very supportive now, and I have a feeling we will be okey in the end.