T thinks that I am not gay-

LOla, that a good point actually. If all of us lesbians were only attracted to other women because they had a desire for closeness wouldn't that just be friends, with no sex but in saying that, this has been my experience with a lot of women too.

Don't get me wrong I think female friends have had sex, be it dabbling, testing the waters, playing around whatever.... but 7 years, surely lesbian bed death would have popped up on your behalf if there was no physical attraction.

* regarding the longevity of heterosexual relationships vs. lesbian. I will say this , I have been with my partner 13 years this month and when we bought our house 8 years ago 4 of our 5 neighbor friends have since divorced and moved. Heterosexuality doesn't guarantee stability and the lack of statistics and lack of true marriage recognition helps to break up some gay couples, as it becomes perpetual dating.

It did pop up right when I moved in with her. we had a very healthy sex life before we moved in but then as soon as we moved into our house she told me she had been abused and we couldn't have sex anymore. I was heartbroken, angry and confused.
I felt like she set a trap for me and a fell right into it.

This is the T who I only saw for six sessions, but she saw more then the other Ts saw and helped me more. I don't think she has an agenda, maybe she does but I would like to think she doesn't.

It popped up for her not you though right? I mean it was a her issue?

That simply isn't true. Heterosexual relationships do not have a better track record (or a good track record!) for longevity. Half of all heterosexual marriages end in divorce. The average length of a heterosexual marriage in the US is 7.9 years. Weren't you with your ex for the same length of time? And that's a long time compared to many marriages! How long was Britney Spears' marriage? Kim Kardashians? Moreover, gay women are not breaking up or ending up alone any more than straight women. That's another misperception. If you were to compare the two, are you comparing lesbian relationships to heterosexual dating relationships or heterosexual marriages? Because, I have to tell you, my straight female umarried friends are with a new guy each week! I can't even remember their names, half the time! And, of course, there are some lesbians who enjoy causally dating as well. But there are also many, many lesbians in happy, healthy committed relationships; some are married, others are in domestic partnerships, and others are simply living together. Nothing about being heterosexual makes a relationship any more stable or last any longer. Obviously, the notion that "being straight" makes you better at relationships is absurd. However, growing up in our culture, we've been inclucated from birth--- through Disney movies, commercials for Kay's Jewlers, romantic comedies, church sermons, and everything else-- to believe that there is something special or sacred or stable about a heterosexual marriage. It's an idea that doesn't really exist. Ask heterosexual married people! My T loves her husband but she'll be the first to tell you that it is NOTHING like what you see on TV!! Of course, this mythical hetorsexual ideal is contrasted sharply with what our culture imagines a gay relationship is like. There are all kinds of negative stereotypes out there about how permiscuous ALL gay people are (because people demonize what they see as "different"). But, of course, that isn't true either. They are an infinite number of lesbians in healthy, happy, committed, long term relationsihs and marriages. Finally, I think your perception of all of this is likely influenced by your cultural upbringing and your own personal circumstances. Since you say you've recently gone through a very painful break-up with a woman-- and you acknolwedget that you are struggling with your sexuality and you still have a lot of internal homophobia-- it makes sense that maybe you feel like ALL lesbian women cheat or break up or are going to be alone-- and, maybe you think the grass might be greaner on the other side, so maybe you think that ALL heterosexual marriages would be more stable. But, of course, none of that is true.

I can tell you that I'm a lesbian, and I have never cheated nor have I ever been cheated on. I also haven't spent more than 6 months single since I was 18 years old. I'm only in my 20s so, like most people my age (straight and gay), I have not yet found the one person I'm certain I want to marry. I'm dating someone right now and maybe she's "the one" and maybe she's not. I don't know. But my dating history is no worse than any of my straight friends; in fact, in many cases, it's better. Almost all of my straight female friends have been cheated on by their boyfriends! And some of them have cheated, too. And some of them have been single for years at a time. Of course, there are also those who PREFER to be single; being single is not necessarily a bad thing. But, personally, I do want to get married and have a long, happy marriage and have children... all with a woman. And, since gay marriage is still relatively new, who knows what the "gay" divorce rate will be (probably very similar to the heterosexual divocrce rate). But, so far, us gays have a much better track record!

Finally, since what appeals to you about heterosexuality is its "longevity," do you really crave that longevity with a man? Or would you prefer to have had that longevity with your ex, or with another woman? Because you haven't listed anything that appeals to you about heterosexuality that is actually specific to heterosexuality. Everything you have listed so far is something that can be had by anyone, of any sexual orientation.

Yes it was her issue not mine because I never stopped wanting to kiss her or touch her!

That's my point.... so on some level there was a sexual attraction...thus minimally making you Bi sexual.

To be honest, it does sound as though your T has a very clear agenda. It sounds like she is homophobic (maybe she doesn't even realize it) and that her personal discomfort is pushing her to "explain away" anything you tell her that affirms your lived reality as a woman who is attracted to and has had relationships with other women. It sounds as though she thinks beting heterosexual is "better" and, therefore, she would prefer to think that you are not gay. She would like to "help" you become "not gay." Hence, she is suggesting to you that you are not gay (rather than listening to what you report about yourself). It would be one thing if YOU told her "You know, I'm wondering if maybe I'm not gay." Then, of course, that should be explored. But, from what you've shared, it was HER who had this relevation and shared it with you. That's imporper form for a therapist, period-- because it is her pushing her suggestion on you. So, it sounds like rather than listening to you tell her that you have never felt sexual desire for men and, in fact, you were in love with your female partner for 7 years, and helping you heal from your break-up and realize that none of the problems you had in that relationship stemmed from the fact that you were both female (there was cheating, that's not a "gay" problem), and help you overcome your internal homophobia and accept what you have said is your sexual identity (gay/lesbain), she is instead suggesting that perhaps you are not in fact gay, that you were confused all of that time and were not actually romantically in love with your ex, and eventhough you feel no sexual desire for men, you actually do and don't know it because you're not gay. Hence, she is pushing her agenda by working to create possible theories as to why you are not gay, despite strong evidence in your history to the contrary (well, some gay female clients in therapy were neglected by their moms! Really! People in therapy had probelms with their moms! No way! What a coincidence! And, clearly, none of my straight clients were neglected by their moms!)

I don't know what I am or who I am anymore and it scares me so much

I also agree that your T is talking BS. But I don't agree with these accusations of your T being homophobic. I think it's all too common for minority groups to harbour a persecutory complex. I doubt your T is homophobic, more likely ignorant.

Surely if a T has no experience with gay clients she should refer them to someone who does? This is alarming to me that she thinks she can cure me. I do feel as though I am different or not normal but thats for me to say not T.

I don't see her as homophobic just as not having much experience and most likely ignorant of it.

Sexuality is not a choice. You cannot choose to be gay, bi, straight, or asexual. You are or you are not. However, you can choose your partner. So, for instance, if you are bisexual, of the men and women you are attracted to, you can choose to enter into a relationship with a particular man or a paritcular woman (assuming they're into you, too!) But your sexual orientation does not change when you go from being in a relationship with a man to being in a relationsihp with a woman. Even when you are in a monogamous relationship with one person of one sex, you are still sexually attracted to both. Now, if you are exclusively lesbian, you are only attracted to women. You can still choose your partner; plenty of lesbians have been with men at one time or another because they were "trying" to be straight; but they never felt attracted to the men they dated. They could choose their partner, but they could not "make themselves" feel sexual desire where none existed. I've also heard the argument "Well, i must not be a lesbian; i'm not attracted to my female friends!" Or, " But I went on a date and I didn't like her!" Being a lesbian does not mean you are attracted to ALL women; just like being heterosexual does not mean you are attracted to all men! Of all the women out there, one is only attracted to a small portion of those women. (For instance, I'm attracted to very feminine, in-shape blondes; if a butch brunette walks by, it ain't gonna happen!)

So, to the question of whether our preferences are genetic or cultural. Well, they're both. We can never fully separate biology from culture (this is what I taught my students last Wednesday!) Our culure influences our biology, and our biology influenes our culure; they' constitute a perpetual feedback loop. We interpret biology through the lens of our culture, and our biology provides the blue-prints on which our culture works. For instance, I just indicated that I like "feminine blondes." Well, what is feminine? Hmm... well, I like high heels, I like painted nails, I like make-up, and I like blonde highlights. None of things are biological or natural! If I lived in the caveman era, none of things would exist! And, none of things are specific to a particular genital configuration. (There's nothing natural about women wearing those things as opposed to men). It's all cultural. So, my biology has pointed me in a particular direction-- and then my culture has shaped my desires. How much is biology and how much is culture? We'll never know. Do I like blondes because I grew up in California and spent a lot of time at the beach, watching pretty blonde surfer girls? Or is my retina genitally programmed to prefer lighter color hues? Who knows? Does it matter? What research CAN tell you is that, once we reach adolescence, our erotic preferances remain relatively stable. We don't suddenly go from preferring blondes to preferring brunettes because we "want to" or because we think it's "better." Once we like blondes, we usually stick with blondes. Or, if we've never had a hair color preference, we continue to not have a hair color preference. Or, if we're bisexual, we continue to be bisexual, and date men sometimes and women sometimes. And if we're gay, we continue to be gay. What fascinates me is why people feel like they NEED TO KNOW WHY some people are heterosexual and some people are homosexual and some people are bisexual. What makes us that way? Yet, no one ever asks "Why do I prefer blondes? Why does my sister prefer brunettes?" The answer to that is because we live in a homophobic society; but we don't live in a hair-color-ist society. If it didn't matter what our sexual orientation was-- if we weren't prejudiced-- it wouldn't matter why!

I am sad for you on this and I hope you find yourself soon...but let you be the one to lead you there.

They probably should, but most don't. Most THINK they know things about gay identity becuase they heard about it on TV, or they have a gay friend, or they took that one, 6-week course, or they attended a one-day sensitivity training seminar. Or, they think "what does it matter? I'm not black and I have a black client. People are people." But, when you're specifically in therapy to talk about the break-up of a same-sex relationshisp or to accept or figure out your sexual orientation, you really do need a T who has training and experience and knowledge in those areas. (If you were in therapy for an eating disorder, or for PTSD from serving in Afghanistan, it might not matter).

When I was 17, my dad sent me to a T who was completely ignorant about gay/lesbian issues. She wasn't "trying" to be homophobic either, but she was, BECAUSE she didn't know better and repeated a lot of the homophobic things she heard on TV or from other people. For instance, after about 4 sessions, she tried to convince me that I was "too young to know" and that I was probably "confused." She also told me, matter-of-factly, that lesbians were at a higher risk of contracting AIDS. Then, she said that femme lesbians were only really lesbians if they liked butch women. Hence, if I liked other femmes, I wasn't really a lesbian. She REALLY thought these things were true! Luckily, I was smart enough to know better than she did and so I brought in research debunking her statements. (Prepping for my future career in research, perhaps?!) Still, the expereince of having her tell me I was confused-- and making me have to "prove" that I wasn't-- was damaging, and it slowed down my coming out process. I can only imagine that, had I seen my current T back then, I would have been a lot further along a lot sooner, becuase she would have understood and validated my experience and not tried to convince me that she knew more about my sexuality than I did!!

Finally, since you say you feel as though your T thinks she can cure you, maybe take a look at this link. It indicates that someone who is gay cannot be "cured." It also reiterates that there is nothing to "cure" because nothing is "wrong" mentally, physically, or socially. (And, normally, I hate advocating wikipedia as a source of info-- I don't allow my students to use it!-- but, in this case, it does the job more easily than a research article).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-gay

Finally, button, I just want to say that my heart goes out to you. I can feel your pain in a lot of what you post, and I just want to say that we all care about you and we all want what is best for you! Like Lola just said, let YOU be the one who determines what that is! Not us, not T, not anyone else-- YOU! You're a wonderful person and you deserve to be happy & to recognize your own, positive qualtiies-- and to be with someone else who recognizes and appreciates them as well.

button30, I wish so much that this was clear and accepted decision in our society. But it isn't! It is confusing and convoluted. I work with teens and I talk with them all the time that their "job" right now is to explore and find out who and what they believe. Sometimes, it's so freeing for them; more often it isn't. We aren't willing or ready as a society to accept the wonkieness of the barrier. I'm hopeful that it will come with time. It has sure changed over the 30 years that I've worked with teens!!

I do recognize that their parents didn't have that freedom. I didn't have that freedom myself. Maybe things would have been different for me. It distresses me that teens and adults are pressured to pick "EITHER/OR". How restricting is that?

I truly believe that all of us live on a sexual contiuum. It IS NOT CUT AND DRY! No one will ever convcince me otherwise!

It saddens me that anyone would say that another person "couldn't" be homosexual or bisexual because of something he/she has observed in a counseling session. Guess what, what we say and express in a 1:1 session or a group is INFLUENCED by the group. We each get to decide for ourselves . . .. and sometimes it is a long and painful journey. . . .sometimes it's short and sweet . ..and sometimes it's sweet and then changes direction! How confusing is that!

I sincerely hope that whomever is involved in your mental health care helps you to make a good and comfortable decision on this topic. You deserve that time and reflection.

Your first T should have been reported- those are without a doubt homophobic statements.It is actually shocking how little training some T's have- how are they allowed to be T's? I am actually seeing a lot of flaws in the whole therapy experience lately. I am more upset then ever, I feel like I am dying inside and therapy is only opening up the wounds and rubbing salt in it.

button30, I am very sorry that T's ill-considered comments have caused this self-doubt and agonizing pain.

i am gay too, and get asked if i am a made (molested as a child by a man) lesbian, or a born lesbian. My abuse happened so young it is not a question I could ever answer and why torture myself with it anyway.

And what difference does it make what road I took to arrive here? I'm here now and that is all that matters.

Tell your T to shove her observations in this area. It doesnt matter what caused you to wind up where you are. It only matters what you do with it now that you're here (love someone and be loved back.) That's all. The rest is just background noise.

This may sound harsh in relation to your T, but this is how I see it. Your T is being unprofessional in her comments and bordering on committing malpractice. To tell a client that their sexual orientation is the way it is because of their relationship with their mother is awful. Any professional organization, be it psychologists, social workers, counselors etc. would find her behavior abhorrent. Ones sexual orientation is not related to a history of abuse or attachment experience or any such thing. For a T to say this makes my blood boil. Whether it is homophobia or ignorance, it doesn't matter, it is inappropriate. I hope that you were able to work and get some benefit from seeing her, but I'm so sorry you are having to go through this period of confusion because of this T. You deserved better.

Are you still seeing this T? It appears that their training was very, very poor. Clearly, this T knows nothing about sexuality. In some states, it is possible for T's to practice without proper credentials / licensing. Have you checked this T's credentials? Where did they get their degree and are the degrees from that educational institution legitimate? Does your state require licensing of T's? For example, Michele Bachmann's husband is a practicing therapist but his credentials are very poor and he would not be allowed to practice in other states. The legitimacy of his practice is through a loophole in the law. (He practices in Minnesota.)

When selecting a T, it is always a good to know what their degree was in, e.g., social work, psychiatry, psychology, and if they can prescribe medications. It is also wise to ask what their areas of specialization and modalities are. You need a T who has a background dealing with sexual orientation and relationship issues. Good intentions are not sufficient to be a T.

BTW, it is possible to be in a loving lesbian relationship and have children. There are many long-term lesbian relationships out there. I am sorry that you had a bad experience in your last relationship. I hope that you can recover from it (and from this "T") and find someone who has similar goals and values as yourself.

Maybe you and your T should just agree to disagree on this subject. If you feel overall she is helping you out then by all means stick with her. Many people are still ignorant when it comes to sexuality. The fact is if you're gay you're gay. It's natural, it happens in the animal kingdom and it's more then likely natures way of not overpopulating a certain species.

She could been taught in T school that no one is born gay. There are those theories. They say being gay is always a reflection of your interaction with parents.

I could ask T if she even believes you can be born gay. That would clear things up a bit.

I did think myself it was something to do with abuse as all other gay women I have met have been abused. I am not sure why I am gay, I don't even want to be gay but I can't help it. I was excited by the notion that T had that I wasn't gay and for the first time in years I could see into the future, I could see a reasoon to be here but now I am not so sure about T's theory anymore judging by all of the information on this thread. Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. I just wish T could have saved her observations for herself.
I am in two minds on if I should ring her or email her now and say I am confused and angry