[TheRealFDeal]

I saw a new t yesterday, one of several I have seen since my old t terminated me and I have been shopping, and I am reeling from the experience. After spending a half hour telling her what I am looking for and how I came to be here, in the circumstances that I am in, she suggested to me that I am not taking responsibility for how things have gone "sideways" for me. The t I saw on Monday said that I didn't "present" well and I might be scaring t's off. I am nearly speechless from how these two responses are making my head spin.

Let me respond to the last one first. OK, in thinking back about how I communicated the events that have brought me here, to this very bad place, I perhaps did make it sound as though I were blameless and that all these things just "happened" to me. Or maybe I even made it sound as though other people were to blame. Now I blame myself for communicating poorly. At least verbally, I am a poor communicator. I abbreviate all the thoughts that are swimming around in my head when it comes out of my mouth and then I am surprised to find that people don't understand me, or haven't "kept up." But I am also wondering why she would think I would bother with trying to get treatment if I thought everyone else was to blame? Wouldn't I then just go about life thinking everyone else needed treatment but me? Also, why was she trying to "therapeutize" (my made-up word) me in the first, just getting acquainted session, before she got to know me? I think she was out of order. I know there is something terribly wrong with me and I know that's the reason these bad things continue to happen to screw up my life. And I blame myself for her response because I presented poorly.

As for being told that I present poorly, that rang true. I have not consistently presented myself in the same way with any of the t's I have "interviewed." It never occurred to me that I needed to be calm and rational, and not cry because it might scare them off. Do these t's think that because they don't work in mental institutions that they don't have to deal with the truly crazy? Yes, that's a little harsh, but it occurs to me that those in private practice do have it "cushy" compared to the warriors in institutional environments who don't get to choose who they work with. The problem is, I need help, and I'm not able to keep my emotions completely in check when I'm talking to these people and trying to answer their questions. Perhaps I should somehow collect myself so that I can be completely calm in the interview and then surprise them with the BPD behavior later.

Finally, I'm now convinced that I live in a community where BPD specialists don't exist. The ones I've seen just don't express themselves in a way that suggests they would treat me differently than they treat their average client. Aren't we a different breed that requires a bit of specialization, or at least a willingness on the part of the therapist to do a bit of research on how best to treat BPD?

I just don't know where that leaves me. I've gone through the list of names I got from my xT, from names I got from my Employee Assistance Plan at work, and names I got from those lists of names. It's very hard to keep going at it, just to be rejected or disappointed. But the alternative is living in this misery or going through with one of my suicidal ideations. At least that's the way I see it.

(I apologize if you think you've seen this before. I originally posted it on the BPD forum, but I thought I might get some good feedback here as well. Thanks.)

[CantExplain]

I find their attitudes puzzling.

[sandworm]

your story is familiar, as i have been telling it for ages.

(kin)

Sandee

[content30]

Wow...so sorry. I'm not too sure what to say to be helpful, but I do have one possible suggestion. Do you think you could craft a letter to a potential T that lays out all of your issues in a clear and logical way talking of others and equally accepting responsibility? Do you have a close friend or family member that could help read it over for you? Then, when you met a new T, you could tell said T that you sometimes have trouble communicating effectively. So, you wrote down everything that you want to say? Do you think that might be helpful? I'm sorry that you are having trouble finding a T that is a good fit, but I'm sure you will in time.

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by TheRealFDeal

I saw a new t yesterday, one of several I have seen since my old t terminated me and I have been shopping, and I am reeling from the experience. The t I saw on Monday said that I didn't "present" well and I might be scaring t's off. I am nearly speechless from how these two responses are making my head spin.

(((TRFD))))
I am sorry it has been so difficult to find a new therapist! It took me a month to get the energy to even start looking for a therapist, but after one definite NO, and a few appointments made and me getting the wrong doctor, I found my current T. There is hope

This is an interview, right? Just because you present as being angry/blaming xT, doesn't mean that there aren't other parts of you underneath that the anger is masking. I don't think the first interview is the time to confront you, if that is what she was doing. I am glad you passed on this therapist.

As for being told that I present poorly, that rang true. I have not consistently presented myself in the same way with any of the t's I have "interviewed." It never occurred to me that I needed to be calm and rational, and not cry because it might scare them off. Do these t's think that because they don't work in mental institutions that they don't have to deal with the truly crazy? Yes, that's a little harsh, but it occurs to me that those in private practice do have it "cushy" compared to the warriors in institutional environments who don't get to choose who they work with. The problem is, I need help, and I'm not able to keep my emotions completely in check when I'm talking to these people and trying to answer their questions. Perhaps I should somehow collect myself so that I can be completely calm in the interview and then surprise them with the BPD behavior later.

There's no need to figure out how you communicated poorly, of course you are having difficulty synthesizing all of this, you were terminated from therapy, and that can be majorly traumatic. Please, give yourself a break here Wanting to think/feel differently doesn't always make it so. You don't have leprosy or anything psychologically malignant, although I have BPD and sometimes feels that way.

IMO, therapists who specialize in CBT and surface behavior, don't work well with trauma patients. Can you find a trauma specialist therapist over the internet? Or call your local hospital if they have a psych ward? Keep looking, you will find somebody. I know it feels like rejection, but really that therapist was not knowledgeable in how to deal with what you were bringing up. It is hard to keep going at it I suspect, especially when you don't know if or when you will find a new therapist, but you will. Keep trudging forward. Keeping you in my thoughts. Take care!

[adel34]

I'm so sorry to hear about how your t search is going!
I too am surprised about the ts reactions. Usually even a very challenging t wouldn't start saying things in the initial session where you both are still feeling each other out, about how you're not accepting responsibility for things that have happened to you. A t that I recently left who wasn't a good match had a challenging stance in general, but at least waited til the second or third session LOL!
So I don't think it was right of her to say that. I also don't believe you need to "present well" to a therapist. This is not a job interview. You're not there to be on your best behavior or impress anyone. Therapists should know that someone coming in is likely to be very upset and even cry. Particularly, if they're aware of and compassionate about BPD then they'd know that you struggle with strong emotions and I would hope they'd be open to the expression of those even in a first session. I agree that sometimes private practice ts can be uncomfortable with very intense emotions. That t that I spoke of earlier who worked at a mental health center was very unsettled when I came in one session and couldn't stop crying. When I'm extremely upset like that I tend to move around a lot, make what probably look like weird hand motions and just look overall like probably not the most together person in the world. Well she was all concerned that I seemed "very agitated" and asked if I wanted to take a break in the hallway. When I told my former t who was a very good match this story she commented that this suggestion was really to make the therapist feel comfortable more than anything else.
So yes I think with some ts it's one thing to have nice neat intelectual discussions about emotions but when faced with them head on it can be quite a different thing.
I like the idea about writing out your thoughts for future ts you see. You could start out a session by saying that you've had trouble communicating with other ts you've been looking at, and then maybe give them the letter you wrote about your issues to read if you feel you can organize your thoughts better in writing. I also recently have been on my own t search, and wrote a reflection type thing for myself about qualities I felt would be good in a t. I sent it to a t I'm considering as part of intake info, and will find out next week what she thinks.
Just don't give up. I think the right t is out there for everyone.

[TheRealFDeal]

Thank you all for affirming my experience. I was really feeling "crazy" trying to process those responses.

I will take into serious consideration putting into writing my thoughts and needs for therapy. I have another appt on Monday -- my 7th interview, and hopefully my last. But if not, my only next idea is to contact therapists on the list I receive when I request BPD specialists on PsychologyToday.com. There are only 15 listed, most seem to be LMFTs, only a few PhDs (I might be unfairly biased toward PhDs). Also it should be noted that BPD is not their singular specialty, but only one in a long list of issues/disorders that they treat. There is an ability to contact them by email, but limited to 200 words! This is such a frustrating, energy-sapping process.

[Anne2.0]

Although I believe that writing can often bring clarity and even transformation and that's a reason to do it, I don't think that a potential T is going to want to read something you wrote. They are not going to do therapy with you via writing, and they will still be interested in how you communicate in person.

I think there can be a lot of rejection from therapists without it being anything personal at all. I've searched for new therapists twice and even the number of phone calls made to the number returned is really quite low. And I think that even though there are plenty of bad therapists out there, I shudder to remember some of them that I have interviewed, I think that the fit between therapist and client is really important. I think I would see most of the reaction as you've been getting as not so much rejection of you as a person but the T's honest assessment that they don't think they could work effectively with you-- that either their skills or who they are as a T is not what they think you need.

Otherwise, I think that certain behaviors like challenging you to take responsibility for your life are a way of them testing to see if they can work with you. They may be looking for you to be open to change as much as anything else, also as a window into exploring your willingness to change. I think if you could see these experiences you have had as an opportunity to learn about yourself rather than as revealing some deficiency you have, that might help you.

[tinyrabbit]

"They are not going to do therapy with you via writing" - can I just pick up on this statement and say it's not necessarily true. I found it so hard to talk at the beginning that I wrote things down instead. I've had sessions where my T has spent half the time reading something I've written (I tend to find some peace and space while he reads so I don't mind the silence). I'm starting to write less and talk more, but that's been my decision.

Here's what I think, OP, and I will preface this by saying I don't know much about BPD so am speaking kind of generally: you need to find a therapist who will work with YOU. Whoever that is. However you present. I am shocked that a T would tell you that you don't present well - for crying out loud, if they have issues with the way you communicate with others, it's their job to supportively and delicately help you change that, not tear you to pieces.

I don't believe in presenting "well". At therapy, you should just present yourself. If that person needs to cry, that person should cry. I think she was absolutely out of order. I was also shocked by the post above about being asked to take a break in the hallway.

I don't know what therapy is good for BPD so can't advise but I do think maybe it's less about the therapist having specific expertise in that area and more about their general attitude to the whole thing? My T told me "short of bringing a gun in here and pointing it at me, it would be very difficult for you to f--k this up". I think you need to find someone with that kind of attitude. But that is just my opinion, and I am not very confident in it really!

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about your negative experiences with therapists. You are the patient..I don't see why you are blamed that you do not communicate well. Therapists are supposed to be trained to deal with different types of persons, so they should be able to ask the right kinds of questions in order to get a good picture of their patient. I hope you will find a therapist who is more interested in helping you.

Can you make a small list of "must haves"in a T and go from there? For example "I have BPD are you equipped to deal with the black and White thinking that comes with this? " I like the ability to have email contact or know I can phone in an emergency etc. No need to delve into your personal details at first, just make sure that the raft T will provide can float first.

[adel34]

I think with regard to psychology today, if the t you're interested in has a website you could e-mail them on that rather than using the form with the word limet. You could also try other therapy search sites like good therapy and helppro.
I also disagree with a potential t not wanting to read something you wrote. I really thought a month or so back that I could see this dance therapist. I asked her if I could send her what I wrote and she said yes. After she said she apreciated reading it. With the intern I'm gonna see wednesday I asked as we were e-mailing back and forth if I could send her what I wrote as part of intake info. She said yes that she was sure she would find it helpful.
I was also shocked for whoever it was that commented, that I was asked to take a break in the hall! And that was from someone who said they were experienced in dealing with trauma.
Like everyone says just keep looking as hard as that is.

[precious things]

My experience with Psychology Today is that almost all of them will have their strengths listed in Green, these will usually be 3 things they are particularly suited to treat. Pay little attention to the lengthy list in black because, and again my experiences only, they seem to be more of a generic "yeah I can work with that...". If you are looking for someone to treat BPD, I suggest looking up people who have Personality Disorders listed in green. Best of luck, it is a really hard process!

[ECHOES]

I found my T by asking for a referral from the psychoanalytic institute near me. She later listed in Psychology Today. I don't know if I would have picked her based on her PT profile and intro. But she is a great fit for me. She said the person I contacted knew my T would be a good fit. We met and she said she gives both herself and the patient a chance to decide if it seems they will work well together. About the 4th session, we talked about that again, and both of us decided to proceed.

I don't know how I would go about it if I had to find a new T. I think though, that I would expect to see a T a few times to get a general idea about how well we could work together. I would want to give myself time to get a feel for the therapist.

I hope you find someone soon that feels like someone you can work well with!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by TheRealFDeal

The t I saw on Monday said that I didn't "present" well and I might be scaring t's off.

Did it scare the T off who said that? Are you seeing Ts who tell you they don't want to work with you? It just seems an odd comment to me from a therapist with so little information about you and your therapist search. How does she know you are "scaring Ts off"? I have been told the opposite by a therapist, that I "present well" (at odds with my true need), and this wasn't helpful to the T either. I guess we can't all present in the way they want. Too bad.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

I don't know much about BPD so am speaking kind of generally: you need to find a therapist who will work with YOU. Whoever that is. However you present. I am shocked that a T would tell you that you don't present well - for crying out loud, if they have issues with the way you communicate with others, it's their job to supportively and delicately help you change that, not tear you to pieces.

I don't believe in presenting "well". At therapy, you should just present yourself. If that person needs to cry, that person should cry. I think she was absolutely out of order. I was also shocked by the post above about being asked to take a break in the hallway.

Was wondering how to word my thoughts to you TRF*D and found Tinyrabbit's comments pretty much echoed what I was thinking. For what it's worth I've 'interviewed' dozens of therapists over the course of my life and of those the majority were incompetent, superficial, by the book, often CBT oriented, completely unempathic and devoid of anything remotely resembling sympathy warmth or humour - basically wastes of space really certainly on a professional level. LOL of course that's my exceptionally subjective and biased opinion, but being as it's based on my experience, true. For me.

Any T who tries to lay the blame at the client's feet for the therapist's negative perceptions of and reactions to the client, is waving a big red flag and that says to me run for the hills, don't look back and let the dust come between you. It.is.their.JOB. to deal with whatever and whoever you present. It is not your job to make their job easy and it most certainly is not your job to blame yourself for their disgustingly offensive judgemental critical and at best hurtful responses about you both as a client and a person.

Hm sorry sleeping pill kicking in now but I really wanted to comment to you, and say very supportively, please don't lose heart, this is T failures you're describing here, not client failure (how can there possibly be client 'failure' ffs????? Oxymoron .) So if you see seven or even up to seventy Ts, try and hold onto the notion that YOU are the one who needs help and it's their job, paid for in moolah hard earned by yourself, to help you. And as a consumer, you are the one who decides whether you are being helped or not. Control and power and the ability to pick and choose our own healing roads rests in our hands, not in the T type text books and one size fits all therapeutic model they seem to consider reality...

Oh I do have to apologize I'm very aware of being totally off my face now on this sleeping pill as I'm retyping every second word ten times trying to get the syntax right. Perhaps I ought to return tomorrow when the pill has worn off, I guess I just wanted to say something NOW to support you in this souldestroying exercise of finding a T who fits.

Might add some more tomrrow when I wake up again. Sweet dreams pretty people Wow the hammer on the head is a hard sleeping pill to ignore for any length of time woo woo woo...

And all the best to you TRF*D, good luck with the continued search, don't give up and don't sell yuourself out, it's who you are who needs the help, not who you are expected to be by external demand. Use your sense of offense and anger to weed out the useless and airheaded ones from the rest. I will undoubtedly have more to say on anger and being offended and standing up for what you know deep down is legitimate and justified ... can't string another sentence together to save my life though. Gotta go to bed, like, right now! Night night for now

Torn

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by TheRealFDeal

Thank you all for affirming my experience. I was really feeling "crazy" trying to process those responses.

I will take into serious consideration putting into writing my thoughts and needs for therapy. I have another appt on Monday -- my 7th interview, and hopefully my last. But if not, my only next idea is to contact therapists on the list I receive when I request BPD specialists on PsychologyToday.com. There are only 15 listed, most seem to be LMFTs, only a few PhDs (I might be unfairly biased toward PhDs). Also it should be noted that BPD is not their singular specialty, but only one in a long list of issues/disorders that they treat. There is an ability to contact them by email, but limited to 200 words! This is such a frustrating, energy-sapping process.

My T, to her credit, would say:
1. Every patient is different;
2. A label (BPD) is just a label;
3. She can help anyone who is serious about being helped.

The Ts you've interviewed so far are not right for you.
The right T will not expect a written summary. He or she will let you tell your own story in your own way.

[TheRealFDeal]

Originally Posted by precious things

My experience with Psychology Today is that almost all of them will have their strengths listed in Green, these will usually be 3 things they are particularly suited to treat. Pay little attention to the lengthy list in black because, and again my experiences only, they seem to be more of a generic "yeah I can work with that...". If you are looking for someone to treat BPD, I suggest looking up people who have Personality Disorders listed in green. Best of luck, it is a really hard process!

I went back and took a look at the specialties listed in green. No one listed BPD specifically. The closest was one who listed "emotional disturbance" and another who listed "self-harming."

I feel like I'm screwed with respect to anyone knowing anything about BPD. I understand that a lot of them don't want to work with "labels" including my xT. But given my experience with xT, I feel someone at least has to express an openness to the idea that I might require slightly different approaches than they are used to, and be willing to do a little research to provide it. It might broaden their own horizons as well as do me a service.

[TheRealFDeal]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I find their attitudes puzzling.

"Can't Explain" it, can you? Heehee.

[precious things]

Here's a wacky idea- if there are any universities near you sometimes you can find psych professors who are into personality psychology, a lot of profs still have limited practices. My T is a professor who specializes in my area of concern and has a small practice in addition to teaching.

[~EnlightenMe~]

[quote=Antimatter;2918867] Or call your local hospital if they have a psych ward? quote]

I was rereading your thread, and when I read my response, I wasn't saying that you needed to go into the hospital or anything. But I know that most therapists work with certain hospitals in their cities, or near them, and I thought that hospitals might have a list of available therapists in your area. Just wanted to clarify what I meant by this. I hope things are going okay for you still.

[TheRealFDeal]

Originally Posted by precious things

Here's a wacky idea- if there are any universities near you sometimes you can find psych professors who are into personality psychology, a lot of profs still have limited practices. My T is a professor who specializes in my area of concern and has a small practice in addition to teaching.

Thank you for that. There is a university in my city and I did just look up the psych dept. Interestingly, I found the name of a statistics teacher that I had and really liked when I was going to school there. I just emailed her for some direction. I did not know she was in the psych dept.

[TheRealFDeal]

[quote=Antimatter;2922688]

Originally Posted by Antimatter

Or call your local hospital if they have a psych ward? quote]

I was rereading your thread, and when I read my response, I wasn't saying that you needed to go into the hospital or anything. But I know that most therapists work with certain hospitals in their cities, or near them, and I thought that hospitals might have a list of available therapists in your area. Just wanted to clarify what I meant by this. I hope things are going okay for you still.

The local "psych ward" is merely a babysitting facility, and having recently spent time there (unwillingly), I don't think I would trust any referrals they would give me. I know I shouldn't close my mind to the possibility, but since they don't work with your T while you're there and don't care to know who it is (until they check you out, at which time they give you a printout of your next appointment which is the information you've just given them), I'm not sure they could do a better job than me at finding a T.

[~EnlightenMe~]

[quote=TheRealFDeal;2922796]

Originally Posted by Antimatter

The local "psych ward" is merely a babysitting facility, and having recently spent time there (unwillingly), I don't think I would trust any referrals they would give me. I know I shouldn't close my mind to the possibility, but since they don't work with your T while you're there and don't care to know who it is (until they check you out, at which time they give you a printout of your next appointment which is the information you've just given them), I'm not sure they could do a better job than me at finding a T.

I was unaware of that, sorry. I just knew that my xT worked with a hospital and I think my current one does. I thought it might be a good idea, but thanks for letting me know the reality of the situation.

[TheRealFDeal]

After interviewing my 7th potential T yesterday, I have been giving a lot of thought as to why I am not finding anyone. Yes, there were a few jerks. There were a couple who decided they could not take me on. But a couple were nice enough; I just did not feel a connection. Why? Other than my trust being shattered, is there more? Is it possible that I'm just not ready to settle with a new T? Maybe I just need a break. What if I just took a break from therapy? I'm really tired of the search. Tired of phone calls leading to dead ends. Tired of telling my story to someone I'll never see again. Yes, I think that's it. I'm going to take a break from searching and see what happens to me without therapy. I'll still have the crises, and feel like crap and want to end it all, but none of them had any outside the session contact with their clients anyway. It seems that's the way it's going with these therapists. They're turning their careers into M-F, 9-5 kind of work, which is when I work. So when would I schedule T anyway? It feels a lot like I'm not supposed to get help. Aw, geez, I'm all over the board.