I feel like t has crossed my boundaries

After session last week t did an exercise with me about boundaries. She put something on the ground between us to act as a line indicating our boundaries. She crossed over the line into my space and it felt awful. She came really close to me right in my face. I panicked and told her to go back to her seat. She said good it worked you know when someone has stepped over your boundaries. Sometimes it feels like t does this to me, especially lately, she has kept hidden the fact she is ex ts supervisor, she pretended she didn't know my ex gf when she lives down the road and they have known each other for years.
I love my t but sometimes I can't help think she is fooling me by concealing these things I already know.
She also recently showed me pictures that were explicit and I felt like she went too far and crossed my boundaries by getting too close. It scared me.

This post worries me (((((Mona)))))

I don't understand why she showed you explicit images especially; it's sounding warning bells in my head. Was she trying to do exposure or adversion therapy? I don't know how it was supposed to be theraputic to you.

I don't think someone knows they have crossed any other person's boundaries unless they are told. Did you tell her you did not want to look at pictures? Also, a lot of therapists will not say who they know. That does not sound odd or off to me, even if you have other info. I would not consider it hiding information. How is the information about whether your therapist knows your ex girlfriend as a neighbor helpful to you in therapy?

Why are you not speaking up? Is it because you see the t as an authority figure? Then, when you become a t, would you expect your clients to be silent and let you talk, since you will then be the authority figure? I think the exercise with the physical boundary line was to show you that you CAN talk. The question is, why do you choose not to? That is many people's problem when they come to therapy. Then they practice speaking in a safe place, with their t (and on pc!), and eventually carry this behavior to real life. The point is to speak politely even when contradicting someone, which is definitely not how some of us were brought up, so we think that even disagreeing is wrong wrong wrong and it's scary to do it and we sure don't do it right the first hundred times or so!

It sounds to me like she did the exercise with the line in the room then crossing it to make sure you CAN tell when your boundaries are being crossed because you are not speaking up and saying, "Hey, you crossed a boundary, stop it!" like you should be. Other people don't know where our boundaries are, we have to tell them and if we don't tell them, how can they/T's know if we don't know where our boundaries are or if we are just not speaking up and letting others know where they are? That's what she's trying to figure out and teach you.

The not telling you about who she knows or doesn't she isn't hiding from you, it's not a social situation where you're playing "who do you know?" to see how you might connect, it's your therapy and only those things that have anything to do with what is happening in the room between the two of you is part of the ongoing conversation. So what if she does/does not know your friend, your ex-, your sister's boyfriend's teacher? That's not part of your therapy.

My T and I did the exercise about boundaries except she had ME put the string around myself on the floor so I decided where my boundaries were.
Your situation is confusing to me, so I imagine how it is for YOU! I can identify with wanting to know why she didn't tell you she's exT's superisor. I think you have the right to know that. How did you find that out, anyway? From ex T?

I'm not sure why she's showing you the explicit pictures. My T is open about sex with me but she'd never do something like that. I'd be triggered and upset if she did. Maybe she wants you to tell her she's crossing your boundaries, but a T should be more direct about something like that; something seems off! I hope you can tell her your concerns. TELL her you were scared by the pictures and it seemed like she crossed your boundaries. If she's also showing you boundaries, she's not going to be upset that you tell her what you posted here. It seems like that's the only way through it.

I don't either, maybe to make me feel more comfortable. sHe said it was to make me embrace my sexuality but it didn't feel like that to me.

It is the fact that she said she doesn't know these people and that she asks me questions about them and it feels like she is being nosy most of the time. I was trying not to mention my exes name but one day it slipped out and she asked me all sorts of questions, like where she worked, who here siblings where, how old, and I could see her putting it all together and then she said, no I don't her. And the same with ex t, she said she didn't know her, when she is her supervisor. I knows it has nothing to do with my therapy I just dont appreciate being lied to. I am very sensitive to liars.

i do see t as an authority figure Hankster. i think you have mentioned this before that I have a problem with authority figures. I didn't want to admit it or listen to it but I am ready now. I don't know why I have a problem with them but I never speak up in front of them, I do what they say and never question and most of the time do not speak to them., I don't know why, well i know I fell infferior towards them and everyone else. My mum always told me to be quiet and never speak unless I was spoken to. She always spoke over me and laughed at what I said and told me how stupid I was so I learned to just say nothing.
T is the only authority figure I have ever been comfortable enough to talk with openly. But now I think she is lying I dont know how to trust her.
I agree it is not part of my therapy but it is still lying when you say you don't know someone when you did.
That exercise worked for me because I knew she had crossed my boundaries where as before I wasn't sure, I never like it when people come too close to me. There is no doubt about it, t is a great teacher. Her exercises are simple but effective now I just need to voice my concerns with her.

Ex T gave me her number and it is only when I was lopoking through my old phone I found the text from ex t with current ts name and number saying she was her supervisor. It is all very confusing Rainbow and I feel like lately I can't trust t anymore and it hurts.
I think t thinks I am doing better than I am, she always wants to talk like friends and skip over the therapy part. She knows I am interested in art so maybe she wanted to just see what I thought about the pictures or lately it seems like t is curious about women and wants to talk about sex a lot, sex between women.
maybe I need to tell t my boundaries and tell her that I want her to be my therapist and not my friend. Although it is nice to be treated as an adult and as an equal.

This is something very important to talk more about with your therapist. Your feelings about this are important.

I'd give my T the benefit of the doubt about the knowing thing; I "know" my neighbors, smile, wave, and even talk to them but couldn't tell you their names so if you asked me do I know "Sam Spam" I might say no since I don't know anyone by that name but if you showed me a picture and asked, "do you know this person" my answer would be different. It is one thing for your friend to know who she is if you have discussed her, her name, where she lives, etc., because then your friend knows you are talking about the woman 4 houses up in the purple house whereas your T hasn't been discussing your friend with you so doesn't know she is the woman 4 houses down in the green house

If she really did know my ex-gf and knew that's who I was talking to/about/etc. she could have been feeling like she was skating on thin ice with a conflict of interest, seeing you and knowing her at the same time or that it might spook you, etc. and she obviously likes seeing you and would not want to mess that up with, "Oh, I know your ex-gf, I can't talk about her whether she's important to you or not and/or can't see you anymore because I can't be unbiased enough," etc.

That she is your ex-T's supervisor is a work thing and their business, not yours. Your ex-T may/may not have discussed you but did not use your name or identify you as such and your present T cannot know that your ex-T identified her as her supervisor to you unless you said, "Hey, you're ex-T's supervisor aren't you?" I don't think she'd say, "No, I don't know what you're talking about" to that direct question?

Didn't you have the same problem with ex-t, being too close and her crossing boundaries? If your T knows your past problems, due to being former T's supervisor, then I fail to understand why she's promoting friendship with you more than being a T.

I was so happy when my current T seemed like a friend. She let me email a lot, she answered them, we discussed art, she casually mentioned her kids, etc. It was great to finally have a T who was like an equal, or so it seemed to me. But now I see that it's her personality to be informal, friendly, and caring, but she's still a professional, and that's the boundary. She was fine with me emailing photos of my kids and grandkids, but maybe it set up some unrealistic expectations on my part. She and I are NOT friends and never will be.

I'm not writing this to be mean. There has to be a middle ground. Now it seems like YOU'RE the one asking for your T to be more professional instead of acting like a friend. The question to ask is: Is she acting like a friend, or just being friendly? My T is naturally friendly, so I misinterpreted that. She's still friendly; that's not going to change, but I'm aware that it doesn't make us friends. If your T is acting like a friend, that's not good for you. I hope you can clear this up soon.

Really simply put, your T shouldn't be weirding you out.

May I ask if you've ever felt any paranoia or anything similar? The only reason not to really address this, maybe by finding someone new... if it really is something you're creating in your imagination.

I don't have any words of wisdom to add to other people's posts, but i wanted to let you know that i can relate, and that this post really stuck with me. I had a t tell me, "i will not lie to you, but i will not tell you everything." I was like what? It sounds kind of similar to what your t is doing... withholding information. it sounds like miscommunication because you both know, and i feel like you know you both know, yet you are both giving each other the benefit of the doubt. That sort of thing really annoys me, because it makes therapy seem like a game. I don't know if you feel like this..? What i did in a similar situation was tell t outright how i felt and that it was not ok. I made sure that we had firm boundaries and were on the same page with everything. that seemed to clear up some of the issues.

Thank you Rainbow, You gave me something to really think about there. T is being friendly and is with all of her clients I believe. She is professional but she shares things that only friends would share. I don't believe she would show other clients those pictures or talk about her children so much. I sometimes feel as though our roles have been reversed and that I am Ts t. I don't know anymore. I love her to bits but I am just confused about everything lately and it feels as though our roles have been reversed and something has shifted.

Nope never felt any paranioa and this is not just in my head.

The pictures sound a bit worrying I have to say.

It's hard to know because there is so much information that is difficult to convey in a post, but the thing that comes to my mind is grooming behavior. Not necessarily for sex, maybe just for dependency, or control or something. I'm not saying that's what it is. I'm just saying that's what I think of and would want to consider.

I think the fact that your T is your ex-T's supervisor, who undoubtedly said lots of stuff about you from HER perspective would make me very nervous. I don't think I would like that, but I don't think it's fatal. Some people could work it out. But I wouldn't trust what ex-T had said.

Hey, Monalisa
Your T showing you the pictures concerns you....that is a conversation that you may need to initiate. At first when I read your other post about the pictures I thought it was just your T trying to engage you in a conversation about sexuality but I have to agree with what some of the others are saying.... maybe she is testing you or pushing you to establish boundaries... so by all means... let her know that you are not comfortable with such explicit photographs. And if it were me, I would bring everything to the table...,because it is wearing on you...wondering about how much she knows about you, your ex, your previous T.... therapy is a place where you should feel safe in asking questions, expressing your concerns... I hope that you will just put it all out there....you will feel better, I promise.

That's what it feels like to me too grooming and I feel awful, sick about it.
I don't trust what they both said about me and why t has taken a special interest in me based on something ex t said that I don't know about

I think the biggest issue here is that you are not TELLING your T that she is crossing your boundaries. I agree that what she is doing sounds odd, but it is your responsibility to tell her that she is crossing boundaries and making you uncomfortable. Perhaps she has a logical reason for her tactics, but you'll never know, because you never asked. And, even if she has a logical reason, if it makes you uncomfortable, you have the right to say so and have her stop. It's your therapy, so you need to tell her what you need, what you find helpful, and what you DON'T find helpful. If you act like you are comfortable with what she is doing then she will think it is really helping you and continue to continue with the same kinds of behaviors and strategies. I you say nothing, then you are collaborating in the continuation of these boundary crossings (because she doesn't know she is crossing your boundaries). T's are not mind readers; they need to be told when they have done something that makes you uncomfortable.

I totally understand the people who are encouraging you to talk to her about it. I'm not sure I agree in this situation. IF it is grooming behavior, talking with her about it just puts her on alert, and either she will pass you over and groom someone else, or turn up the manipulative grooming behaviors. IF I wondered about grooming, and you said it felt that way to you, I think I might consult with someone else for that specific purpose. Not for therapy. Just for a reality check on what's happening with your T. I know it's not easy to find someone to consult with like that. I think I would be thiking about how to get a second opinion. But that's my first reaction, and it's something I would think more about.

Hmmm.

I just read your response where you said it felt like roles are reversed. That would concern me too. I have an exT who did what I think are grooming behaviors for dependency, and so she would feel good about herself, and get some need for connection met without having to be too vulnerable. And I was very very fond of her, and grateful to her. And then I quit feeding her ego with some questions I asked that I didn't realize woudl make her feel challenged (and perhaps a few other things and it was much more complicated than that simple sentence), and she stopped things. And it wasn't good for me, not before the break, and not after. And it really wasn't good for her, although that's now her problem. Between the pictures, and the feelings that you love and want to protect her, I would have questions.

I think we need to be careful of the words we are using here. To me "grooming" is a very loaded word which suggests criminal activity, deliberately abusive behaviour and of a power differential which is similar to that of a defenseless child against an adult.

This is not the case here. MLS is not a defenseless child and her therapist is not grooming her. Her therapist is not knowingly hurting her. She may have questionable methods or boundaries which are not clear to MLS or us from the info we have and i agree this is something MLS needs to sort out with her but i think we need to keep it in perspective.

I think that showing sexually explicit photos to a client is highly unorthodox, especially without giving an explanation of the therapeutic purpose, and giving the client an opportunity to decline. Monalisasmile, you think your T did this to help you embrace your sexuality, but is that mind reading on your part, or did she tell you this? I would be weirded out if my T handed me a bunch of such photos to look through!

I would not like if my new T were my former T's supervisor. It would seem somehow incestuous. I would also be worried that my former T had spoken to my new T previously about me when I was her client and perhaps continued that in the present, even though it would breach confidentiality. I would want a relationship with a new T to start with a blank slate--I would want my new T to form her own impressions of me without being swayed, even if unconsciously, by what a former T had said. It sounds like you did not know current T was your former T's supervisor before you became her client? But somehow this came out later? I think it would be important for transparency on this issue from the start. When my T referred me and a family member to another therapist for family therapy, he told me of his relationship with the other guy (classmates, knew each other for 20 years) and the new therapist made sure to tell me how he knew my individual therapist (classmates, knew each other for 20 years). It is good they got their stories straight!

I did not like the exercise you described where T came and sat next to you in your face to try to get you to exert your boundaries. It feels physically invasive to me, and threatening. I am not sure the ends (getting you to state your boundaries) justify the means. She could have found a way to do that non-physically, by doing a role play, etc.

If this happened to me, I would be concerned about two things:

1. T lied when she said she didn't know your ex-gf.

2. T showed explicit photos without telling you why she wanted to show them to you, or giving you a chance to consent or say no.

I would talk to her about both of these things. I know I could not feel safe or comfortable with a t that did this without discussing why she did these things.

I understand, I thnk, your reticence to describe something with crimnal connotations. However I think I disagree with your position, although not your concerns.

I first used the word GROOMING. In this case I do not know if we are talking about illegal or unethical behavior (I think grooming can occur wtihout criminal acts - this may be a disagreement in our definitions). I said I was WONDERING about it, that I would be thinking about it if I was in that position. I didn't say she WAS grooming, but I don't know that it wasn't either. This is perhaps where we diverge.

Grooming is rarely illegal, it is the purposes for which grooming occurs that is often illegal. I would certainly be concerned if I observed grooming behavior even if no illegal, immoral or unethical had been noted yet.

I do not know if the T is intentionally hurting Cl to meet T's needs, unintentionally hurting Cl to meet T's needs, or isn't hurting Cl at all.

I agree with you, I think, in being reticent to label the T as abusive, or even involved in grooming behavior. I don't know. I think being concerned about it is reasonable. And perhaps where we disagree, I can't rule it out