[likelife]

I drafted an email to my ex-T and I'd love some feedback if anyone has any to share (I'm also terrified to ask for feedback, but there you have it). For reference, my ex-T terminated me 7 months ago and has told me that she would have a closing session with me, but only if my current T is present. Sorry, I know this is really long...

***
"But you frowned like thunder and you went away."

W.H. Auden

Ok. I understand. You do not want to have any further contact with me, unless it's mediated by another therapist.

I've thought a lot about the pros and cons of a joint meeting, and for right now, I don't think it would be such a good idea. I am uncomfortable with the implied power dynamics, wherein you unilaterally choose the terms of our ending.

I am unable to see what good would come from me trying to come to terms with ending therapy and to say goodbye while in the presence of a third party. To do so would reinforce the idea that I need protecting, that I am fragile. It is pathologizing. And there is nothing wrong with me. I'm still unclear why you feel you need to take away my autonomy in this way.

I understand too that you are able to forget me. It doesn't work so easily in the reverse. I still think about you everyday, seven months since I last saw you.

[Husband] and I are going in to see [couple's therapist] next week, for some follow up work. When I talked with [couple's therapist] to schedule, he mentioned that you had sent someone to him recently, which reminded him of his time with [husband] and me. It was a terrible punch in the gut to hear him say your name. I was flooded with memory and emotion. It is awful to think about you.

I truly hope that you have sought further consultation about what happened between us. I still feel that you badly mismanaged your countertransference. This is understandable, you are human after all. But that understanding doesn't negate the pain that I've experienced over the past months. I need you to know how damaging this has been for me. I also wish you had the courage to acknowledge your mistakes, the ones at the end, to me. You knew about my difficulties with attachment. I would hope that you could have understood how destructive it was for therapy to end abruptly, and without any hope of ever starting again to be able to work through the enactment taking place and the resulting damage done.

I am still angry. And hurt and sad and confused and ashamed. I am hit intermittently by waves of grief that leave me reeling. You are right there. And yet, you are so far away. That might be the hardest part of this for me to reconcile. That I will not see you again, not because you're actually gone, but because you will not see me.

I still love you. I think I understand now that I scared you with the intensity of my feeling. I spent the first part of my life learning not to need and the latter part learning to allow myself to need again. Now, I'm suspended in this middle place. I do not want to renounce need, but I also do not open myself to others. The thing I feared most - opening myself and being rejected and cast out - happened. You didn't understand in our last session when I told you that ending therapy was a betrayal. I wonder if you ever considered that further, if you came to understand that you recreated the same relational trauma from other individuals I was trying to work on with you.

Please be careful with your clients. Please be aware of the power you hold. Don't forget that people trust you with their lives, and that that is not a responsibility to be taken lightly. My experience of somatic therapy with you is a discussion in and of itself. Suffice it to say that I hope you keep in mind that you need to fully inform clients about developing areas of competence.

I spent years telling you the good - what I learned and appreciated, what I was grateful for and what I enjoyed in our relationship. I have made great efforts not to allow the pain to negate these things. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

Through writing this, I've decided that I want to request that we meet once more, without anyone else present, to discuss our respective understanding of the end of therapy, to honor the relationship, as you once said, and to say goodbye.

If you are unwilling to do this, I would appreciate you letting me know your willingness to speak with candor about your own experience in a final joint session. I can't yet bear the idea of never seeing you again, and if it has to be on your terms, I'd like to at least know the full extent of those terms.

If you choose not to respond, I will live with that as well. This will be my last contact.

Goodbye,

[Yogix]

xinfinity. I think you articulated yourself in the best way possible. It's addressing your feelings immensely, and if she doesn't learn from this, well, there are words to be said about her competency. Please keep us (or at least me!) updated on this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[likelife]

Thank you so much, Yogix, for your kind words and the hugs I was hoping that I wasn't coming off too defensively (even if I might still feel that way). I'll let you know if/when I decide to send it.

[Yogix]

Please do! I think you came off in a way which needed to be heard.

Good job! I'm proud of you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rosondo]

That comes across as moving and heartfelt. I hope you are emotionally ready for whatever response you do or do not get from this person.

[rothfan6]

I don't think it's defensive. Its very sincere and direct about your feelings and what you would like from your last session. You put it all out there and that's a brave thing to do. Hopefully your T respects that and meets you halfway.

I think what you write eloquently explains how you feel...


I might suggest the following (slight) edit?

Originally Posted by likelife

As I understand, you do not want to have any further contact with me, unless it's mediated by another therapist.

I've thought a lot about the pros and cons of a joint meeting, and for right now, I don't think it would be such a good idea. I am uncomfortable with the implied power dynamics, wherein you unilaterally choose the terms of our ending.

I am unable to see what good would come from me trying to come to terms with ending therapy and to say goodbye while in the presence of a third party. I feel to do so would reinforce the idea that I need protecting, that I am fragile. I feel it is pathologizing. And there is nothing wrong with me. I'm still unclear why you feel you need to take away my autonomy in this way.

Even if you are able to forget me, it doesn't work so easily in the reverse. I still think about you everyday, seven months since I last saw you.

[Husband] and I are going in to see [couple's therapist] next week, for some follow up work. When I talked with [couple's therapist] to schedule, he mentioned that you had sent someone to him recently, which reminded him of his time with [husband] and me. It was a terrible punch in the gut to hear him say your name. I was flooded with memory and emotion. It is awful to think about you.

I hope that you have sought further consultation and have a better understanding about what happened between us. I still feel that you badly mismanaged what I believe was countertransference. This is understandable, you are human after all... but that understanding doesn't negate the pain that I've experienced over the past months. I need you to know how damaging this has been for me, given my difficulties with attachment. I would hope that you could understand how destructive it was for therapy to end abruptly, and without any hope of ever starting again to be able to work through the enactment taking place.

I am still angry. And hurt and sad and confused and ashamed. I am hit intermittently by waves of grief that leave me reeling. You are right there. And yet, you are so far away. That might be the hardest part of this for me to reconcile. That I will not see you again, not because you're actually gone, but because you will not see me.

I still love you. I think I understand now that I scared you with the intensity of my feeling. I spent the first part of my life learning not to need and the latter part learning to allow myself to need again. Now, I'm suspended in this middle place. I do not want to renounce need, but I also do not open myself to others. The thing I feared most - opening myself and being rejected and cast out - happened. You didn't understand in our last session when I told you that ending therapy was a betrayal. I wonder if you ever considered that further, if you came to understand that this played out as a recreation of the very kind of relational trauma from other individuals I was trying to work on with you.

I spent years telling you the good - what I learned and appreciated, what I was grateful for and what I enjoyed in our relationship. I have made great efforts not to allow the pain to negate these things. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

Through writing this, I've decided that I would like to request that we meet once more, without anyone else present, to discuss our respective understanding of the end of therapy, to honor the relationship, as you once said, and to say goodbye in something of a more fitting fashion.

If you are unwilling to do this, I would appreciate you letting me know your willingness to speak with candor about your own experience in a final joint session. I can't yet bear the idea of never seeing you again, and if it has to be on your terms, I'd like to at least know the full extent of those terms.

If you choose not to respond, I will live with that as well. This will be my last contact.

Sincerely,

Likelife

----
"But you frowned like thunder and you went away."

W.H. Auden

[elliemay]

This is a great letter, but perhaps it's best written and kept for yourself. If your previous therapist indicated that there was to be no contact unless there was another therapist mediating, then I think you should probably respect that.

Is there another therapist that can mediate this interaction?

[Mactastic]

lifelike, I read your letter four times. It actually brought tears to my eyes. Your pain is so raw. Are you working through your feelings about your old T with your new T? Have you made up your mind to send this letter, or are you on the fence?

[Petra5ed]

You're a good writer. Now I want to know more about the story behind this

I'm sorry your T terminated abruptly like that. I cant imagine, since that's one of my big fears right now.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

I think it's a great letter when you are focused on yourself. In a few isolated places, it feels like you reduce the power of what you're saying about the effects on the termination on you by fingerpointing at her and/or making assumptions about what she thinks or feels. I think that the issue with these few places is that if you want her to *hear* you (as opposed to maybe you just want to say these things, which is perfectly legitimate), you can be more effective by sticking with your "I" statements more closely.

These are the places I think you shift out of "I" statements:

To do so would reinforce the idea that I need protecting, that I am fragile. It is pathologizing. And there is nothing wrong with me. I'm still unclear why you feel you need to take away my autonomy in this way.

Actually, what I have seen is that when someone asks for a third party to be in a meeting, it's the asker who is the one who is perceived as fragile. Employees who won't meet with their supervisors without their union reps, students who won't meet with faculty without another faculty member. I'm not sure why this is about your autonomy. She's told you that she's not comfortable meeting with you without a 3rd party present. It's about her, not about you.

I understand too that you are able to forget me.

Unless she said this to you, I don't think it's right for you to put that on her. Statements you make about you not being able to forget her are poignant and compelling.

I truly hope that you have sought further consultation about what happened between us. I still feel that you badly mismanaged your countertransference. This is understandable, you are human after all.

This just strikes me as telling her how to do her job, using terms of the art of psychotherapy, in a way that is inauthentic. Unless she told you that she had countertransference and didn't manage it as she wished she had. It sounds kind of snarky. To me it's a different thing to say how something affected you to expand into what someone should do in the future as a professional.

Please be careful with your clients. Please be aware of the power you hold. Don't forget that people trust you with their lives, and that that is not a responsibility to be taken lightly. My experience of somatic therapy with you is a discussion in and of itself. Suffice it to say that I hope you keep in mind that you need to fully inform clients about developing areas of competence.

I think this comes across as a lecture that doesn't have the stones behind it. Her future professionalism and clients are not your concern; your healing from what she has put you through is. Personally, I would stay focused on myself and the aftereffects.

[MoxieDoxie]

I think you should not send any letter, do not have any further contact with your ex-T and take this letter to your new T and work on what you feel and to help you work through this.

Sending this letter is going to make thing worse in the long run when you do not get the response you expect.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by likelife

I


Ok. I understand. You do not want to have any further contact with me, unless it's mediated by another therapist.


I truly hope that you have sought further consultation about what happened between us. I still feel that you badly mismanaged your countertransference. This is understandable, you are human after all. But that understanding doesn't negate the pain that I've experienced over the past months. I need you to know how damaging this has been for me. I also wish you had the courage to acknowledge your mistakes, the ones at the end, to me.


Please be careful with your clients. Please be aware of the power you hold. Don't forget that people trust you with their lives, and that that is not a responsibility to be taken lightly.


If you are unwilling to do this, I would appreciate you letting me know your willingness to speak with candor about your own experience in a final joint session. I can't yet bear the idea of never seeing you again, and if it has to be on your terms, I'd like to at least know the full extent of those terms.

,

I highlighted, my guess, about wanting a third party present.

[Syra]

I could have written that letter. You have articulated it well. It took me right back to what happened, with balance and perspective. I'm so sorry to hear this happened to you. If you are going to end up agreeing to meet with her, I wonder if you want to send the letter, or just agree to meeting, and then read it to her in person. Would that work? or not?

Is it possible to find a 3rd person that is jointly selected, rather than a 3rd person that she picks. I understand how a 3rd person she chooses would feel like a power play. There are also advantages to a 3rd person - someone who will be witness to the pain she has caused you. Someone to give you some support if it gets very difficult. I've been in your position and had to make similar decisions (although it played out a little differently and we haven't yet had a meeting. don't know if we will).

[likelife]

Originally Posted by elliemay

This is a great letter, but perhaps it's best written and kept for yourself. If your previous therapist indicated that there was to be no contact unless there was another therapist mediating, then I think you should probably respect that.

Is there another therapist that can mediate this interaction?

Yes, that's a really good point. I've been resisting the idea of having another therapist present (obviously). I don't want to be disrespectful of my ex-T's boundaries, and at the same time, want to see if there's some room for compromise. In the event that there's not, I guess I feel compelled to get my point across, as it were. But since it's clearly more for me than for her, maybe I don't need to actually send it.

Did you mean a T other than my current T? That's who my ex-T assumed would be the 3rd party. In talking with my current T about it, she raised some good questions about who would be "leading" the session and whether it would actually be in my best interest.

Originally Posted by Mactastic

lifelike, I read your letter four times. It actually brought tears to my eyes. Your pain is so raw. Are you working through your feelings about your old T with your new T? Have you made up your mind to send this letter, or are you on the fence?

Thank you, Mactastic. That's really sweet of you to say. Yes, I've been working through my feelings about exT with my current T. And it's been quite healing in a lot of ways. It just feels like there is unfinished business with my exT that I'm trying really hard to let go of, but feel unable to.

I'm still not sure whether I want to actually send it.

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

I think you should not send any letter, do not have any further contact with your ex-T and take this letter to your new T and work on what you feel and to help you work through this.

Sending this letter is going to make thing worse in the long run when you do not get the response you expect.

I think I'm expecting her to say that we can meet jointly with my current T or not at all, or alternately, not to respond. Despite that, I feel like I want to try to facilitate a better ending in which I can feel more empowered about the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Syra

I could have written that letter. You have articulated it well. It took me right back to what happened, with balance and perspective. I'm so sorry to hear this happened to you. If you are going to end up agreeing to meet with her, I wonder if you want to send the letter, or just agree to meeting, and then read it to her in person. Would that work? or not?

Is it possible to find a 3rd person that is jointly selected, rather than a 3rd person that she picks. I understand how a 3rd person she chooses would feel like a power play. There are also advantages to a 3rd person - someone who will be witness to the pain she has caused you. Someone to give you some support if it gets very difficult. I've been in your position and had to make similar decisions (although it played out a little differently and we haven't yet had a meeting. don't know if we will).

I'm so sorry you've had a similar experience, Syra. I'm really on the fence about meeting with exT with current T present. And I know that current T is on the fence about it too. She's perfectly willing to do it, but she is trying to help me figure out what would feel most empowering - meeting or not meeting.

I'm not sure how we would go about jointly choosing a third party, but it makes sense. I guess in the end, my current T is probably the only person I'd want to have in my corner, so to speak.

Are you leaning one way or the other about having a final meeting?

[likelife]

Originally Posted by just_some_girl

I think what you write eloquently explains how you feel...


I might suggest the following (slight) edit?

That's a great edit, JSG. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

You're a good writer. Now I want to know more about the story behind this

I'm sorry your T terminated abruptly like that. I cant imagine, since that's one of my big fears right now.

Thanks, Petra. It's hard to summarize the story, but the shortest version of it is this: I met with my exT for six years, working a lot on recurrent depression, prior trauma, and attachment issues. I had a lot of transference-rooted feelings toward my T, which we tried to work through, but I think she either lost patience, was uncertain about how to proceed, or was just out of her depth with me.

She distanced herself from me by saying that she would no longer discuss our relationship. Near the end of our time together, I sought consultation from an outside T (my current T) to address a specific problem outside of my exT's area of expertise. I also ended up consulting about the seeming impasse with my exT.

I will fully own that I was less than honest with exT about what I was doing. She knew that I had gone for the initial consultation sessions, but I didn't let her know that I continued intermittently to consult with this other T until several months down the line when I came to recognize that current T seemed to "get" me much better than exT, and to respond to me in ways I found immensely helpful.

I told T about all of this, in a letter I wrote to her, that I had actually felt really ambivalent about sending. (I didn't send it, but read it to her in session.) I thought I had expressed how conflicted I felt about wanting to work things through with exT, since I had invested SO much time and energy into that relationship, while also feeling as if she was making that difficult to do.

Despite telling me that she would be there and we would work through whatever we needed to, exT contacted me by email several days letter, saying that we needed to end, that it would be unethical of her to continue seeing me given that I had found another T who could better help me.

I promptly lost my **** and probably made everything a thousand times worse by freaking out on her. In our last session, she told me she would meet with me again to "discuss our ending," but only after I had "spent some time working on all of this" with another T.

Ok, that was so not a short version! It's hard for me to write about, and yet I also feel compelled to do so. I feel like I've had no recourse in the matter, and told her so in our last session, that it felt unfair of her to unilaterally terminate therapy. She insisted it was my decision to end, given that I had told her that therapy with her had not been helpful to me in some time (which was true).

Ugh, I also don't want my recourse to be *****ing on the internet about her. So sorry for the earful

[likelife]

LMTL, thank you so much for taking the time to thoughtfully read my letter and offer your thoughts. I think you're absolutely right that I kind of go off the rails in parts by basically lashing out at her. Thank you for the reminder to focus on "I" statements.

And you make a good point too that there is a difference between wanting to be heard and wanting to say these things. I think I get caught up in wanting both of these things! But I get that I can't necessarily have both. Perhaps I'm fearful that I won't actually be heard (this was a recurring theme at the end of our therapy), so I'm taking king of a Hail Mary approach toward getting in all of the things I feel like I need to say.

I think her reasoning behind wanting a third party is that she wants someone there to support me. I think. I have a hard time not reading "we need someone else here because you're too crazy to actually hear what I'm saying," or something similar, into it. I hear your point, though.

The countertransference piece - it's good to know that that comes off as snarky. That wasn't my intention, but I see how it could be read that way. I recognize that I'm trying to equalize the power imbalance between us, trying to force her to acknowledge that she played a role in the ending of our therapy. But I don't think I'll change her mind about that - and I know I certainly won't if I come across as demeaning.

Thanks again, LMTL. You've given me a lot to think about.

[feralkittymom]

I agree with Elliemay and Moxie here. I understand how awful what happened to you was and think your ex-T handled it very badly. But she's made it clear under what circumstances (for whatever reasons) she's willing to hear you out. The letter seems to be what you would say were you to have the meeting you want--but which she has only agreed to within her conditions. Beyond that, because it overruns her boundaries, I doubt it will be heard in the ways you want.

I don't really see the problem with a mediated session, if you trust your current T. If not, then I wouldn't agree to it. But I suspect your ex-T wants the witness more for her legal protection than as any statement about your ability to conduct such a session. She seems to believe there's the chance she could be set up for some sort of retalliation, so she's being defensive. It's not that unusual, and needn't have anything to do with the reality of the situation as you see it.

I do think closure doesn't need to involve her at all, and I think you're right to be extremely cautious about your intentions and actions in order to protect yourself. Have you shared the letter with your current T?

[Syra]

I initially thought the 3rd person was for her legal protection. When you said that she recommended your current T, I think it's more likely it's because she wants you to have someone if you get triggered, and she doesn't want it to be her. But hard to know except for asking her.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by likelife

....And you make a good point too that there is a difference between wanting to be heard and wanting to say these things. I think I get caught up in wanting both of these things! But I get that I can't necessarily have both...

I thnk you may not be able to have both right away. And it was a good thing to point out, and for you to consider, so that you don't get further triggered. On the other hand, sometimes (but not always) it is healing to say what you have to say. YOu never know when something you say, or she says, will sink in days, weeks, months, years later.

[likelife]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I agree with Elliemay and Moxie here. I understand how awful what happened to you was and think your ex-T handled it very badly. But she's made it clear under what circumstances (for whatever reasons) she's willing to hear you out. The letter seems to be what you would say were you to have the meeting you want--but which she has only agreed to within her conditions. Beyond that, because it overruns her boundaries, I doubt it will be heard in the ways you want.

I don't really see the problem with a mediated session, if you trust your current T. If not, then I wouldn't agree to it. But I suspect your ex-T wants the witness more for her legal protection than as any statement about your ability to conduct such a session. She seems to believe there's the chance she could be set up for some sort of retalliation, so she's being defensive. It's not that unusual, and needn't have anything to do with the reality of the situation as you see it.

I do think closure doesn't need to involve her at all, and I think you're right to be extremely cautious about your intentions and actions in order to protect yourself. Have you shared the letter with your current T?

Your points are all good ones. At the moment, I'm leaning toward not sending the letter. I realize that it was written in a (prolonged) moment of strong emotion, and although it represents accurately my thoughts and feelings, it won't get me what I really want: my ex-T back. I had been aware in the days before writing the letter that I'm experiencing a new wave of grief over this loss, and I think writing it was helpful in organizing my thoughts.

I do trust my current T, though I'm sensing that she's reluctant to do a joint session. I can certainly talk with her further. I haven't shared the letter with her yet. For some reason it makes me uncomfortable to imagine doing so (though there's nothing in it that she hasn't already heard). That gives me reason to pause too.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful feedback.

[likelife]

Originally Posted by Syra

I thnk you may not be able to have both right away. And it was a good thing to point out, and for you to consider, so that you don't get further triggered. On the other hand, sometimes (but not always) it is healing to say what you have to say. YOu never know when something you say, or she says, will sink in days, weeks, months, years later.

Yeah, I think you're right. And maybe neither will ever come. I wish I could get past the sense of powerlessness that comes with that realization.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by likelife

Yeah, I think you're right. And maybe neither will ever come. I wish I could get past the sense of powerlessness that comes with that realization.

oh Gawd. I sooooooo know that feeling. I read your words and it took me back. I could feel it in my body as it slumped and remembered. I just wrote a whole paragraph about how you aren't that powerless, and she doesn't have the power she wants, blah blah blah. And then took it out. I do know the pain of being rejected and feeling powerless to change that. I've come to accept that - most days. It still makes me sad, but I don't feel so powerless anymore. Actually, I feel kind of good. But it took a lot of time and work. It was good work.

One of the reasons I was rejected was I wouldn't be compliant with something she wanted from me. I'm glad I had the power during a time of a lot of pain, to know what I do and don't know, and do and don't want to be, and didn't believe her just because she was the T. I still think she was wrong in what she wanted me to do, and believing I could just make myself do or be or say what she thought was right to do. I lost my beloved T because of it. But I didn't lose myself. That's some consolation, but I understand it still hurts.

[likelife]

I'd imagine it took an extraordinary amount of courage to stand up for yourself, even if it meant losing your T. Thanks for sharing more of your story. It is comforting to hear that, though the process was long and likely difficult, that you're now feeling good. Did you end up working through what happened with a new T?

[Lauliza]

I think your ex t wants someone else there for her own purposes. I'm not what the precise reason is - it could be it legal, emotional or safety or other reasons, only she really knows that.

If it were for your sake, your ex t would not insist on it and would give you much more say in the matter. Since she has not done this but essentially given you an ultimatum, it is about her.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk