T tied my shoes

Whether or not this interaction is healthy totally depends on the context of the client and the recipient of the action.

This particular client, the OP, analyzes things and reads into things a lot. If the client is constantly hunting for evidence of her own specialness to the T, and wanting proof that T loves her as a daughter, than the T should not act in ways that reinforce that perception.

I wonder if this T is feeling a bit on edge trying to maintain the connection and help the client, while at the same time worrying about each action being fraught with over-identification and too much meaning.

Thanks for sharing the interaction, it is a sweet one but I just worry you'll take it out of context.

I think it was sweet of t to do for you. Totally cute. I like it when my t does stuff lile that for me.

I think it's hard for us to know. It does sound quite cute. It makes me smile. I wonder if the important thing is not whether or not she did it, or whether or not it was appropriate, but rather, what did it mean? If you struggle with it, talking with her about what did it mean, and for her to talk to her supervisor about what it meant for her if she needs to.

Assuming for the moment that your Ts question about whether it was appropriate are well-founded as some suggest, and was not an act of kindness or therapy... well, Ts make mistakes all the time. Even good Ts make mistakes. And good Ts sometimes cross boundaries (and I'm not saying this was a boundary that shouldn't be crossed. I don't know. It sounds like it might be just a very cute story). My experience is that the important thing when something confusing happens is to talk about it. Did it help you feel more grounded? safe? or did it feed a dependence in you? (those aren't the only options. Just trying to give polar opposite examples) And if it didn't confuse you, and there isn't an unhealthy dependence, I'm not sure there's a problem - No Harm, No Foul.

I asked because 1) I thought it would be an interesting discussion if my T even thought it was maybe on the edge of boundaries to do, 2) I did enjoy the moment and wanted to share it and 3) all of my posts are so negative/dramatic I thought it would be nice to share a lighthearted story for a change.

Well, it's kinda hard to take this out of context. She just tied my shoes. Yes, I did interpret it as a mothering thing. She does that in little ways. She was helping me prepare for an evaluation at my school to be allowed to come back next semester. It did feel like my mom helping clean me up for an event or something. She knows that I literally do see her as a mom and that's probably why she hesitated to question the boundaries with it.

I don't know as her being a T in a residential program is probably quite different than a T in private practice, but it kind of creeps me out a little to think of your T tying your shoes. No one has tied my shoes for me since I was about 5. In the grand scheme of things, I don't see this is a big deal, just be careful because it could maybe a red flag in overstepping boundaries. But she also said she loved you…so…I don't know.

Totally off-topic: Can I just say that I cracked up laughing when I saw that your user name is velcro???

T was cute and whimsical.

I read how you described your relationship with your Mom on another thread.

T wasn't controlling; it was just the opposite-spontaneous and carefree.

One time my last T told me a children's story while I laid on the couch and closed my eyes. I often felt childlike and playful in sessions, which brought the playfulness out in him. It doesn't have to be a maternal/paternal thing-I've interacted playfully with partners/dates too.

Your post made me smile!

Love dhow you explained this. Those connecting moments with T were so endearing-with face beaming like you described.
We don't have to be serious all the time.

Growli-i hope you can relax and savor the moment rather than overthink this.

HAHAHAHA! awesome. lol.

I'm not overthinking it for a change. I'm still hung up over when she said she loves me in passing last week so I'm busy overthinking that and I can just enjoy the shoe tying moment.

I'm glad you can rest in the shoe tying moment. I agree with Bill here: there's something to be said for facilitating a client to experience the feeling of being cared for. When our self, body, and spirit has been systematically degraded, abused, and humiliated, we don't know what the experience of unconditional caring looks or feels like. I think we need to recognize and experience it in our bones in order to trust in it, then internalize it, and finally take it with us out into the world. I think this T overall is getting it pretty spot on.

And this I think is the problem. She shouldn't have done it- were you tying your own shoes even an option there? I'd feel out of control, like a small child not even able to tie her own shoes let alone go through an evaluation.
I do think this is reenacting a pattern but not in a healing way.

Yes, I agree. We went through a phase when I couldn't accept the idea that someone would care for me regardless of my behavior. I'd act out (just in small ways like using an excessive amount of foul language in group or back talking group leader constantly. Every time, she still accepted me and told me that regardless of my behavior, I still deserve to be cared for and T still likes me anyway.


Yes, I'm totally capable of tying my own shoes haha

Sure you are, I know. What I meant was that she started with I want to tie your shoes. A statement not really giving you an option to do it yourself and all about her wants and needs...
But hey, if you like this dynamic, who am I to say otherwise.

Well she said "I really want to tie your shoes". I find that much less patronizing than "tie your shoes" or even "I want you to tie your shoes"

Personally I would find it really patronizing if someone didn´t feel like I could tie my own shoes, and really wanted to do it for me. Whats next...? Is she going to cut out your food at mealtimes too? Seems like an unhealthy countertransference and that you are enjoying the ride..

Hopefully.

I'm joking. I don't want her to cut my food.

She knows I can tie my shoes. She just looked at them and said she was experiencing an urge to tie my shoes. She's a little unconventional in that way. She tends to act on her urges as long as they aren't negative. Like when leading a group once, she got up lied on the floor because she said hearing about the antics of one of the group member's ex girlfriends was exhausting. But she didn't say it in a negative way. It was actually probably validating. I don't really know how to describe her.

It´s really none of mine ( or anyone elses business) but have you told your T that your mom did everything for you at home? Instead of just descriebing her as abusive?
You don´t have to answer this one..I am just curious

My T knows everything. She's also talked to my mother directly multiple times so she has a very good idea what I am dealing with.

I hear my mother say "I want to tie your shoes" and I hear patronizing.
I hear my friend say "I want to tie your shoes" and I hear support and care.
I hear another friend say "I want to tie your shoes" and I hear a request to have her needs met with an assumption that I'll speak up if it's not okay with me and with fondness for me.
I hear my T say that and I hear care.

Makes sense to me that you didn't find it patronizing. When I read what you wrote I had a smile on my face and a nice feeling.

wish there was a LOL icon next to Thanks and Hugs.

Hi, growly , I wasnt sure whether to post or not, but I am. Just for clarification, your mom and dad were abusive to you by ignoring your needs while growing up? Thats how I grew up as well.

Or did she not let you grow up by doing everything for you? And ignore you?

Taking Syra's post a step further, I hear "I really want to tie your shoes" as an expression of the T's feelings of caring which don't imply anything about Growli's abilities to do it for herself.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Each person will hear that statement differently, depending on context and depending on the unconscious agendas at work in both parties, and even on the current moods people are in at the time of the conversation.

I think what disturbs me a bit is I find it infantilizing rather than empowering. I think if someone has a dominant core yearning for a mother it's going to be really easy to read lots into a simple statement like that and hear it as "I really want to take care of you, and do this thing primary caregivers do for young children". I think it is mothering of sorts. Maybe it's ok for a T to mother clients in this way, I don't honestly know - I guess many of us need need reparenting (recalibrating?) in different ways, some more overt than others. However, this T said things like "I don't know if this is appropriate" which rings alarm bells - that sounds like she's winging it.

I agree with indestructible girl, growlys t very well knows her issues and she may not be doing it intentionally, but in a way I find it enabling on the therapist behalf. Just my oppinion.