Talked with T about attachment and now not sure what to think or how to feel

I brought up with her today that I'd wanted to call her last week to leave a message to tell her about how I'd dealt really maturely with a situation and how I was super proud of myself, but I hadn't called because something about that felt like I was breaching a boundary...and she told me she'd made her boundaries very clear to me and our sessions are 50 minutes long once a week and that's it except for crises.

But with that said, it wasn't like a "cardinal sin" (?) to call her and tell her something good that I'd done, which is why she didn't mind that I'd done it once before, and just use my judgement and don't do it all the time because her job is to help me not need her instead of encouraging me to need her and I did the right thing last week by not calling...so then I started feeling defensive and trying to justify why my attachment to her actually wasn't unhealthy (which I actually don't think it is, and I don't think she thinks it is either...)

So I brought up with her that I thought maybe I'd identified her as a "safe, supportive adult" in my life instead of explicitly as "T", and she said that was normal but also that she didn't want me to be relying on her, to which I quickly tried to justify why I wasn't (ex. I know our relationship won't last forever and that doesn't make me anxious at all; I make lots of decisions without consulting her first; I have no desire to see her "in the real world")...so that did not go so well. Part of it is tricky because she IS a safe supportive adult in my life (although definitely not the only one these days), but only for fifty minutes a week if I pay her $110.

And then I brought up the situation where a few weeks ago I'd told her something vulnerable and she responded really well and it made me feel good and safe and she didn't know what I was talking about...which is fair because I know she has other clients; it wasn't that I was upset at her; it was just that she wanted me to tell her about the situation all over again to jog her memory and I was already feeling vulnerable and wasn't ready to be that vulnerable all over again.

By that time it was almost the end of the session and I was a little bit upset but controlling it really well and I told her I really didn't want to spend the next week worrying about this, and what I really wanted her to do was to offer me an appointment tomorrow, which she didn't, but when I finally came out and asked for it she said she had no problem with it as long as it wasn't all the time and to use my judgement and do what I thought I needed.

But then maybe I was just feeling super oversensitive because she framed it as though "if you need me, we can have the session, but if you think you can flex your independence muscle and not do the session, then you can do that," and it annoyed me because that read to me as "making me feel guilty about needing something" even though she left the choice up to me. I feel like maybe I was having an off day or maybe she was because a lot of the stuff she was saying just didn't feel right...so we have a session tomorrow morning...and that's all.

((Yearning))

I never really reconciled myself to those boundaries.

Boundaries are cold and hard. If I wanted cold and hard, I'd visit my mother's grave.

I actually have no issue with the boundaries themselves; maybe my issue was more that she was making the boundaries about what's best for me instead of just saying, "Here's what I'm comfortable with; here are the rules." I think it's important for two people to bring themselves to the table when discussing stuff like that...or maybe just that I felt vulnerable and then got annoyed about it. It could be that too.

That's another thing I never accepted: being told what's good for me.

It wasn't even so much that she was telling me what was good for me as that she wanted me to talk about my reaction to her boundaries, which is fine, but first I wanted her to clarify exactly what those boundaries were, and she didn't want to play it like that. She was like, "I've been really clear with you re. boundaries," which obviously isn't all that true considering she then broke her own boundaries several times within the past couple of months and said that's fine once in awhile but just use my judgement...which isn't good enough for me.

Hmm...I think her boundaries, although a little strict and definitely painful, are normal for some T's. It sounds like she really wants you to be comfortable on your own, and although I get that, I know that approach wouldn't work for me. I have spent my life alone, and since my T knows that, she makes sure to emphasize that she is always available to me when I feel like I want to or need to talk to her.

Are these boundaries you are willing to deal with? If so, it's time to accept them and only bend them when necessary. If not, then consider finding a T whose boundaries work better with what you need.

those are good boundaries. whats the prob?

Maybe I felt like she wasn't really being fair to me and then I got defensive...because I AM fine on my own; I have other supports and I don't NEED her; I just wanted to call her and leave a message to share something with her, which is a pretty normal(?) thing to want to do with someone you trust who has seen you through this journey. I've been making A LOT of progress on my own recently, so maybe I felt like she was sort of discounting that by telling me (although she didn't really tell me this; just my interpretation) that what I was doing was STILL overstepping, no matter how much progress I've already made.

I have no problem with her saying, "Don't call between sessions," but I do have a problem (I think) with her saying, "I don't like it when you call between sessions usually, but you can use your judgement because sometimes I don't actually mind it."

Can you tell her that's how it made you feel?

oh she doesnt allow emailing? or calling in crises?

No to emailing; calling in crisis SOMETIMES, but only to book another session or do a phone session; she doesn't stay on the line and she'll only call back during her regular hours, not any time of day or night or weekends. And it's not her boundaries I have an issue with; it's just the way her STATEMENT of her boundaries made me feel. The boundaries themselves are fine; there was just something about the way she put it that felt off to me...or possibly I was just feeling super sensitive. And when I wanted to (but didn't) call her, it wasn't an emergency; just a really positive thing I was proud of and wanted to share with her. But then I thought it could wait until session and it could.

Side note: you are obviously very worried about messing up and making a mistake regarding boundaries. That's why you want a rule to stick to rather than a recommendation you can bend when you feel that you need to. So I would explore why you need that to be so clear, if I were you. What about this makes it so hard to handle? Do you not trust your own judgement? Why not? Is it something else that's bothering you (fear of punishment or abandonment)? What is fueling your struggle with what she said?

ETA: And discuss what you discover with your T. It could lead to some really great conversation.

I'm planning on it when I see her tomorrow. And hopefully I'll get a good night's sleep and thus be less edgy/anxious, which might make me less sensitive. I mean, she's not perfect; she's just a person and sometimes her responses aren't exactly precisely word for word what I want to hear, but she's a human being and that's normal.

Her boundaries seem fine i cant understand why she seems to be sending conflicting messages.......like this is my boundary but you can cross it if you've used your judgment. Well it's either a boundary or it isn't.

oh i understand u. this T i have doesnt let me call or email ever. and i had to suck it up when i was used to be able to call my ex-T. yeah she doesnt seem much clear. she says she doesnt want but then says oh u can but not always. i think she doesnt want u to become much dependent on her but u can do it if really needed. and when is good thing u achieve i would like to think she would be glad u called? did u tell her why u wanted to call?

Yes, and the thing that confused me was that I called her a few weeks ago to tell her something similar and then felt bad about it because I thought I'd overstepped a boundary...but she said she was really happy to hear what I'd told her, so I thought maybe that was okay or at least not WRONG to call her. In this situation, it's tricky because if I'd called her it wouldn't have been that I NEEDED her or was dependent on her, but simply that I WANTED to call, so situations like that aren't really things I can resolve on my own...they're her boundaries, not mine, so I think I felt a little annoyed that she was making her boundaries my issue when they're really her issue.

oh lol yeah then u really need to be upfront and ask her to make it clear and not make such comments that make u feel like ur overstepping (which i see ur not AT ALL). no harm in straightening that up with her. tc

Maybe a little tiny part of me actually likes having the OPTION to call and is worried that by backing her into a corner and asking for some flat out rules I will end up with some rules I don't like, such as never ever call even if you're in crisis (because I know in the past when I was very distressed and wanted but not needed a phone session between sessions she was fine with it and said she was happy to be there for me, and I felt really safe and comfortable and reassured by that).

It doesn't matter how clear she thinks she's been about the boundaries, if her client doesn't understand fully when to call and is asking for clarification then she needs to give that.
It is natural to want to call her and tell her when you've achieved something positive but I'd agree with her that that type of thing can wait until sessions. However, telling you to use your judgement about what you can contact her about isn't her being clear, cos your idea of a crisis and hers could be two very different things.
Her statement of her boundaries sounded quite defensive or rejecting and a bit shaming of you. At least that's how I'd feel.
I can understand that she doesn't want to create a dependancy in you, and that's why she discourages you seeing her as someone you can call with good news or life events but some degree of dependancy is normal and just one stage of therapy if managed effectively. She doesn't sound very available, are you comfortable with that?

i understand that... i actually had a similar situation. from what u said i think shes the one trying to not break her boundaries but wants to show u there are boundaries u need to follow. just make like a resume of the last session saying u understand u shouldnt need to call her every time but when its really needed or to give some good news u can. and ask her if u understood right... i dunno.

Yeah, I FELT like it was sort of shaming, but I think I might have been being a bit oversensitive and I think she was also a bit frustrated herself and she's just a human being with her own feelings too, so...that? And the thing about availability is annoying/confusing, because in the past I never really thought about her as super available, but then there were two big situations in which I needed her and called (and subsequently felt guilty about it) and she was like, "No problem, let's do a phone session, I have no issue with you calling whatsoever because you're doing what you need to do." And that was the point at which I started trusting her and called maybe one or two other times over less substantial things (like I did this awesome thing and am so proud of myself and you should be too!). And that I think was when our therapeutic relationship really cemented and I started making some really good changes because before that I thought she was sort of unavailable/uninvolved. But then she was there for me when I needed her and that made a HUGE difference to me.

I'm frustrated for you. The more I read about people's experiences with Ts the more I think the whole thing is crazy making.

On one hand, Ts are all 'I'm here for you! Trust me! Love me like a parent! If you don't, you're resistant and defensive!' And then on the other hand, you'd better not get too comfortable with email, texts, or calls or you get your wrist slapped and treated like an annoyance.

The fact that there are attachment issues mixed into all of this makes it so much worse. I can't believe many of us pay to get treated this way, especially when we are at our most vulnerable.

Sorry for fueling the fire, but I had a bad session this week and getting tired of the roller coaster.

Yes, but you are paying her to keep her feeling out of the room, her frustrations are nothing to do with you. So if you feel her emotions are coming into your therapy then that is a problem cos they shouldn't be.
Maybe you feel shamed because you have sensed her defending her own boundaries as if you are the one to have stepped all over them when in reality you have done nothing of the sort. It's like you're getting the responsibility of keeping her boundaries for her when that is so not your job.

Maybe she's not very good with boundaries or clear on what hers are, what she is comfortable with versus what is ethical? But again that's not your problem and she needs to speak to her own supervisor to work that stuff out.

I think she actually is VERY clear on boundaries and good with them; I think she made "exceptions" a couple times for me because she thought it would help me trust her, which it very much did. And even though Ts are "supposed" to keep their feelings out of the room, I actually think I prefer it when she's honest with me about how she's responding to me or interpreting me, even if it's hard to hear. Like one time a few months ago when I was feeling vulnerable and projecting that and taking that out on her and not being very nice, she said, "You know, it's really unpleasant when you talk to me (or treat me or something like that) like this." And sort of jarred me, but it also really opened my eyes to what I was doing and got me to really notice when I was doing that with people who were not her, and that was really helpful to me. And I would much prefer a human T who tells me when she's frustrated with me than a robot T.

And I guess maybe I do feel like this whole boundary thing is my responsibility...because it feels to me like I've done something wrong, and I think she didn't mean for me to think that; it's just the way I interpreted it. Like she said she didn't mind any of the times I called before and it's not like a major hardship to receive a call from a client about progress they're making, and that it's totally normal to want to share this stuff with her...so I think maybe it might be just my sensitivities here...I don't know. I really don't want to overstep at all...