Talked more about attachment/boundaries with T and things somehow got even worse

Maybe she is just concerned that your need for her could become a major issue and she does not want to give you false reassurances and then it gets blown up into a bigger issue all the time...she just doesn't want to feel like she tells all of her clients (her children) that each one is her favorite....she has to be fair about having a true concern for everyone she is helping....

But I didn't ask (and couldn't care less whether it's true or not) if I'm her favourite. I know I'm not and it doesn't matter. I didn't ask that. I asked if she cared about me. There's a difference.

you might be right. I imagine it does have something to do with the T. The T could just say that and then it wouldn't result in so much confusion for the client.

I think the thing that really bothered me was that she said I was "badgering" her, which I definitely wasn't, but that's probably how she felt, and that word is a really sore spot for me because my mother used that word in the exact same (incorrect) context whenever I stated a need in a way she didn't like. So it's bringing stuff up for me. Obviously my T couldn't have known that...but using words properly and appropriately in context isn't so complicated.

Ah, transference...

So, do you think it will help to talk with your therapist about what happened with your mother pushing you away? I'm not sure, but I'm afraid the therapist might try to legitimize how your mother treated you.

Why do you think she would legitimize it?

I'm really not sure if she would or not, but if she has a detached personality and doesn't value or want attachment the way you do, she might think it's healthier for people to be more independent, rather than wanting someone to care the way you do. Maybe she would think you should have gotten more caring as a kid, even if she doesn't value that kind of caring for adults. But I think some people, maybe even some therapists, believe it is better to always be independent, rather than interdependent, even as kids, so she might think that even needing more caring as a kid was not a good thing. (I prefer interdependence and I think your desire for your t to show you that you are worth being cared about is something a good t with a caring personality could do for you.)

Again, I'm really not sure, and I don't mean to discourage you from trying to make things work with her. Maybe this is my stuff I'm projecting onto her. But I have had relationships with adults (not therapists) who I'm sure really would believe a kid who needed to be cared about (more than your Mom did for you) was too needy and should just learn to be more independent. So, in case she really believes that, I don't want you to get hurt by her. I believe it's healthier for a parent to offer the kind of caring you wanted than to withhold it.

The funny thing is, she works from an attachment framework. And she has a lot of compassion for care that I needed when I was a kid, even care that I needed when I was 16 or 17. But apparently since I'm 18 now, all that care is suddenly off limits and time to grow up and stop needing it and be completely independent? She really, really doesn't want me to depend on her, which I think is "unfair," because she works with teenagers too, and if one of them told her that she was a really supportive, caring adult in their life, I don't think she'd mind that...I don't know, maybe she would? But she tells me how sad she is for me that I didn't get the kind of nurturing and care I needed as a teenager so I don't know.

That's good, that resolves a lot of my concern then. I'm glad she acknowledges you should have gotten more nurturing as a teenager and, I suppose, as a younger kid. Well, you're right though, it doesn't resolve the concern that you still need to be cared about as an adult, as do most clients who are revealing vulnerable stuff.

I think it's in most humans' natures. But Stopdog definitely says she wants the opposite, so I don't know.

Well, it's frustrating that she's like, "Yeah, people should have cared about you ten months ago, but I can't care about you now." And I get that she doesn't want to be that person for me, or her own boundaries re. caring about her clients, and I get that I'm NOT a kid anymore...but it still feels so damn unfair that I have this need that I can just never fill. I mean, I'm working on filling it myself, but that need for care is just so integral to who I am as a person I don't think it'll ever go away entirely, and I'm not sure why I would even want it to.

Yeah, I don't know if I think just filling it by oneself and being totally independent is realistic... maybe some of it needs to be filled by a therapist, at least being able to say she's able to care about you. And I think some of it does get filled by other people too.

Yearning, how do you expect to learn to do it for yourself if no one shows you? We are supposed to be taught it by our primary caregiver, and when we don't get it, it leaves a tremendous ache.
Actually by getting that need filled within the boundaries of the therapeutic relationship you will need eventually need it less, not more, you will become more independent not less. Yes you are 18 and technically an adult but that doesn't mean all of a sudden you are a fully fledged independent well functioning adult. It just doesn't work like that. Adulthood doesn't come all at once, it comes in lots of little steps forward. Your brain doesn't even stop maturing until you're 25. Becoming an adult is a great and scary adventure and everyone needs support and even when you get to 80 years old, you will still need people to care, you will still be dependent on others to a certain degree.

I can understand your therapist not wanting to nurture an over-dependence and that would look like you not dealing with things for yourself and constantly looking to her to put out minor fires etc. She has a responsibility to ensure you achieve emotion independence from her eventually. But Dependency and care are two totally different things. She seems to be withholding personalised care in an effort to make you " independent" Maybe she's trying to discourage maternal transference, i don't know.

All i know is you shouldn't be denied your feelings, or feel shamed for a very natural part of your own development. You need to be supported thru this, be allowed to be curious about your feelings and the need to grieve for what your mom didn't give you. And sometimes in therapy, therapist do become mother figures in absence of the real thing, and when i say that i don't mean someone to come tuck you in bed at night, i mean, they give you guidance, unconditional positive regard, empathy, sometimes advice if appropriate, they give you a safe place to return to when the real world is too much. And sometimes you will cling to them a bit but that is just one phase of therapy and eventually you will need her less and less. I don't know if this therapist can offer that and i think that's what you need to find out, because i think that is what you need.

Look, this is it here. Its when we get all judgy with people that transference is taking over - that is what needs to be psychoanalyzed. If its bringing stuff up for you, thats your stuff, no matter what the t is doing. They could be hanging upside down and backwards - its still your stuff that matters.

I know my stuff is the stuff that matters. And my stuff is obviously what's getting in the way of me bringing this up with her...because I don't want her to respond to me like that again. But I guess she can't KNOW not to respond like that unless I tell her why it bothered me so much and then we can explore that...I know it's important to explore. It's just scary.

This thread really touched something in me. Thank you for sharing. I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said much better than I could have put it. Just wanted to add though that I'm 45 and still have the feelings and needs that you do, yearning. Take care and good luck. Please keep posting.

I too know how hard it is.

Trigger:

After spending a week trying to get someone to say they care about me I started feeling sui knowing that it wasn't going to come from my therapist, that she wasn't going to be able to meet my needs, that I will probably always have this huge hole in my heart because I didn't get the caring I was supposed to get. I have been reaching out more trying to get it from people in real life and really putting myself out there even though I have severe social anxiety. I still don't know how to feel this need.

It hurts I know and I am sorry you are going through this.

Me too. Sorry you are going through it too.
I'm sorry I'm derailing the thread a little bit, but I want to ask you something. No need to answer if you don't want. When you start to feel sui, does it stop? From the way you worded it, it sounded like you had the feeling but you didn't continue to believe it. For your sake, I hope that's true. For my sake, I wanted to know what it's like or what caused the sui feeling to stop, if it did.

I just read a remarkable story in MINDSIGHT by Daniel Siegel about a client that used the MINDSIGHT tools to treat his manic-depression and suicidal thoughts. I haven't finished the book, but the techniques so far seem to be similar to various kinds of mindfulness, or focusing - observing oneself as an observer.
I doubt the tools worked so well with all his clients, but if they worked for one person, they might work for another.

Yearning0723 - So I see there are 91 replies here already and I'll be honest I haven't read them all so maybe I've missed relevant facts . Mind if I opinionate based on just your first post?

First, I see why you would be bothered. Thankfully my T has said "I care about you" period! Not often, but has said it. I would be bothered too if he said something like "I care about you, but I say that to all my clients." If that was how he said it, totally out of the blue, I'd be like what the F was that!?

Here's the thing though, it sounds like you asked her to say she cares. If I asked my T if he cares about me I might get the same response "yes, like I care about all of my clients." In this case I could see her having a therapeutic reason for not giving you the response you wanted. If your T is normally warm and your gut feeling is she does care, you might want to consider this was tough love. Therapy is meant to challenge you after all.

For starters you cant really ask a person to say they care, especially not without asking yourself why you need them to say it! It sounds like you tried too hard to make her say it, imagine being put in her shoes. What would it mean if she finally did say it anyways? It sounds like some kind of enactment to me, some kind of transference related feeling.

Also, you said you cant trust her if she doesn't say she cares, but she did say that she cares, she just qualified it so that you could not use it to feel special. For example, were you really asking her to care more about you than her other clients? I don't know that it was an emotionally healthy ask I guess. It seems like a therapist should not give in to these kind of things too if she didn't think it would help you. If she thinks you are using feeling cared for in a special way to avoid and disassociate from realities you should be facing right now, that could be why she said it that way.

The painful truth is, she is probably being honest. Does she care? Of course! She's a human being listening to you, hearing intimate stories etc., unless she's a sociopath she cares, but she cares about many people and probably doesn't feel as attached as you might. But... if you've had a gut feeling all along she doesn't care and has felt cold/distant always trust your gut and find a new T. Gut feelings are almost all of the time spot on, the tough thing is listening to your gut when you don't like what it's telling you. If you wonder if she might be making a therapeutic stand I would ask .