[Yearning0723]

Sorry for bringing this over from another thread, but I want to work through this in more depth instead of hijacking my own thread trying to figure out how to work with this email thing.

Yesterday's session (and past sessions where similar issues came up re. boundaries) is really bothering me and I want to tell T how I'm feeling about it. I know this is better done in person because she doesn't like between session contact, and that's a boundary for her, but our next appointment isn't until next Wednesday and I have way more important stuff to talk about during that appointment, such as this really scary situation with my mom and stepdad and processing some feelings around that, and I know if I bring it up during session we will just spend the whole session talking about it. I feel like I also want to give her some time to process what my needs are and figure out how to better meet them.

I also really don't want her to get upset at me for breaching her boundaries, though, and I am actually considering doing this on purpose and I have no clue if it's a good idea or not. (Probably not - I know it will aggravate her, but I want to do it anyway.)

It's long, but I don't know if there's anything I can really cut out and still end up saying everything I need to say...do y'all think this might be okay to send her? Or is sending an email a bad idea, period?

Dear T,

I know that emails of a personal nature are a boundary for you, and I’ve been trying really hard to respect your boundaries, but I feel like this is something I need to write to you for two reasons: a) because I’m probably not going to be able to hold onto it until next Wednesday and b) if I tell it to you in person, we will probably spend the whole session discussing it and it might not go well.

So if you’re still reading, here goes. I have a need for you to be more mindful of the way you respond to me re. your boundaries. I'm okay with the boundaries themselves, but a lot of the time when we have a discussion about boundaries or how I feel about them, I feel chastised/judged/shamed. Yesterday when I brought up my need for another session/check-in to process this stuff more, since we really only got to talk about what happened yesterday and not how I’m feeling about it or what I’m going to do about it, I felt really uncomfortable with your response.

I’m okay with the fact that you said no to another session but maybe to a check-in depending on your schedule, but what I heard (even though I don't think you meant it this way) was, “I have certain boundaries for my private practice [and you know what they are and stop bothering me about them already].” I was feeling nervous to even ask for what I needed because I didn’t want you to get upset at me or think it was wrong of me to ask, which is how it’s felt in the past when I’ve stated a need in a certain way, because sometimes it feels like you hear the delivery (my tone or whatever) but not actually the message, which is that I’m struggling with something and need some compassion. Sometimes I feel like you’re rebuking me for having/expressing that need by taking the expression of my need as a criticism or labelling my expression of that need as “badgering” or “escalating”, and I don’t really know what to do with that. Because it is never my intention to make you uncomfortable; I’m usually just trying to say things in the best way I know how.

I know this is my stuff; I know you’re not trying to chastise me for having needs and that’s just how I’m interpreting you. I’m working on that, and for now, I just have a need for you to be mindful of it. Because today I felt like we had a really good session and I felt really validated and supported and even cared about (if that’s okay for me to feel) and then at the end I felt like I ruined it by asking you for some more time, even though I was okay with you saying no. So then I went home feeling really guilty because it felt like you were displeased with me and like I’d done something to upset you. I don’t think that was how the situation was at all in reality, but that’s how I’m interpreting it. The fact of the matter is, I need you sometimes, and I don’t think there’s anything unhealthy about that as long as I respect your boundaries, which I’m trying very hard to do. But sometimes I feel like you’re sending me mixed messages re. whether it’s even okay to need you or whether me needing things from you or even mentioning that I need things from you is a burden.

So that’s all. I hope this email was not such a big boundary crossing (although it probably was, and I am actually sorry about that but I didn’t really know what else to do, since you know I have much more pertinent things to talk about during our next session, so I just felt really really stuck and I hope you can forgive it). I would just really appreciate if you could be more mindful of the way I’m interpreting you in these situations. And I would also like to thank you for listening yesterday, because I know I laid a lot of really tough stuff on you and I really appreciate how supportive you were. That felt really, really good to me, and it meant a lot.

[elaygee]

I think the tough thing is if T was really, really clear it seems like a bad idea to do something like this. It's like "I know you said no, but I'm going to do it anyway, and then if you respond negatively, even though you already said not to do this, I will react." It *feels* like because you are trying to do it "gently" you are hoping it's ok, but in the end even you have said you *know* this is crossing her boundaries, and then cross your fingers and hope she's not mad.

She has set rules for her practice. Reasons are T's get paid for what they do face to face, and try to protect their private time. When there are emails, it is asking they take private time to manage something that should be done in session. It just felt like "I know you didn't want this, but I want you to take time to read this for free because I want to do something else in session".

I think the length is also what makes me feel like it's such a boundary cross too. It's very much processing. It'd be different if you called and left a brief voicemail "Hey T, I'm struggling because I feel like I'm chastised when we talk about boundaries, and I want to work on this and talk through how to make it better."

[unaluna]

What i got from this is, you want assurance that everything is still okay even if you both say no. Im not surprised you ask that, given your mother (and my mother!). For them, it was out of sight, out of mind.

Re your minnie mouse - my t gave me a coffee mug when he went out of town, and all i could think about was, when will i have to give this back to him? Like a gift could never be truly mine.

Its okay - you are both together even if you both cant BE together, if you both say its okay. Probably even if you dont! This is probably just a hangover from your mother's problem with her mother, etc etc etc.

[IndestructibleGirl]

This breaks my heart to read I know your T has helped you in many ways, but thing is I can't help feeling like this therapeutic relationship is now almost teaching you to be apologetic for your very human needs.

Look at what you're saying "I felt cared about (if that's okay for me to feel)" - of course it's okay for you to feel cared about. The tentative way you have to pose this is, as I've said, heartbreaking.

I know everyone has the right to their own boundaries - that's a given. But I truly am beginning to think from your threads that this particular therapist's boundaries are not a good match with what you need to get to allow you to heal. It's like you are desperately trying to whittle your needs down to something acceptable, and I'm not sure how that can really work.

[Fuzzybear]

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

This breaks my heart to read I know your T has helped you in many ways, but thing is I can't help feeling like this therapeutic relationship is now almost teaching you to be apologetic for your very human needs.

Look at what you're saying "I felt cared about (if that's okay for me to feel)" - of course it's okay for you to feel cared about. The tentative way you have to pose this is, as I've said, heartbreaking.

I know everyone has the right to their own boundaries - that's a given. But I truly am beginning to think from your threads that this particular therapist's boundaries are not a good match with what you need to get to allow you to heal. It's like you are desperately trying to whittle your needs down to something acceptable, and I'm not sure how that can really work.

I think that's why I want to send her an email in the first place, to tell her that the way she's responding re. her boundaries isn't working for me, and if she can't change that, I'm going to have to start looking for a new T, regardless of all the progress I've made in the past eight months with her. I know I should bring this up in session, but I don't think it can wait two weeks, and I also don't think my other issues can wait two weeks since I feel like they need to be processed pretty soon...so I don't know. I know I'd be breaching a boundary by sending an email, and I know that's not the right thing to do, but I think maybe I need to do it. Maybe it's a test. I have no idea. I feel stuck.

[PeeJay]

This T's level of strictness on e-mail and boundaries seems excessive to me.

It's JUST e-mail. And you wanted an extra session for help getting through a tough time. Is she that busy that she has to say no?

Now maybe it's a boundary crossing to e-mail her with a crisis situation. But an e-mail about your feelings is just an e-mail.

I realize she doesn't want to get sucked down the rabbit hole of e-mail exchanges. But you aren't doing that.

I wonder if you are better of with a T where your needs can be better aligned. Like, she has a right to not want to do extra sessions. But you also have a right to need or request them.

All relationships are a negotiation of give and take. I don't understand why her "boundary needs" are set in stone but yours have to be flexible.

Yearning, you don't strike me as an out-of-control, over-demanding person. I think your request for an extra session is reasonable.

Take a dating couple. If one needs to be told "I love you" once a day and one doesn't want to have to say it that often, they have competing needs and neither is WRONG. But it might be a deal breaker for one of them.

Are the boundaries set by this T a deal breaker for you?

Maybe you cut this T more slack because she is comfortable with LGBT issues. But most Ts should be super comfortable with all sexuality types.

(My T also doesn't do email and is super curt when talking about scheduling. It is jarring and hurtful how she can go from caring and empathetic to All Business in two seconds. I don't like it. But it's not a deal breaker for me.)

[stopdog]

I would send a letter rather than email. The other option is to wait and give her the writing at the next appointment if you think you can't just say it to her.
If you email her and she does not respond - are you going to feel worse? Do you want to give her information or do you want reassurance? (It is not bad to want reassurance - but I think it may not be obtained if you send the email.It might get reassurance from the therapist - I am just suggesting it is something to consider)

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by PeeJay

This T's level of strictness on e-mail and boundaries seems excessive to me.

It's JUST e-mail. And you wanted an extra session for help getting through a tough time. Is she that busy that she has to say no?

Now maybe it's a boundary crossing to e-mail her with a crisis situation. But an e-mail about your feelings is just an e-mail.

I realize she doesn't want to get sucked down the rabbit hole of e-mail exchanges. But you aren't doing that.

I wonder if you are better of with a T where your needs can be better aligned. Like, she has a right to not want to do extra sessions. But you also have a right to need or request them.

All relationships are a negotiation of give and take. I don't understand why her "boundary needs" are set in stone but yours have to be flexible.

Yearning, you don't strike me as an out-of-control, over-demanding person. I think your request for an extra session is reasonable.

Take a dating couple. If one needs to be told "I love you" once a day and one doesn't want to have to say it that often, they have competing needs and neither is WRONG. But it might be a deal breaker for one of them.

Are the boundaries set by this T a deal breaker for you?

Maybe you cut this T more slack because she is comfortable with LGBT issues. But most Ts should be super comfortable with all sexuality types.

(My T also doesn't do email and is super curt when talking about scheduling. It is jarring and hurtful how she can go from caring and empathetic to All Business in two seconds. I don't like it. But it's not a deal breaker for me.)

I don't know if it's a deal breaker for me. Maybe I want to send this email as a test to see how she reacts and see if she can modify her responses to me even just a little, and if she can't, then maybe that will push me to be ready to find a new T.

Also, re. LGBT issues, there's a difference with being comfortable with different sexual orientations and having intimate knowledge/understanding/experience. I've had Ts in the past who were fine with my sexual orientation but who didn't "get it" the same way people from that community like this T get it. Especially since my sexual orientation is playing such a big role in my life these days, I think THAT'S a deal breaker for me.

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I would send a letter rather than email. The other option is to wait and give her the writing at the next appointment if you think you can't just say it to her.
If you email her and she does not respond - are you going to feel worse? Do you want to give her information or do you want reassurance? (It is not bad to want reassurance - but I think it may not be obtained if you send the email.It might get reassurance from the therapist - I am just suggesting it is something to consider)

I actually thought about this, and I think right now, I'm 95% sure she wouldn't respond and I'm okay with that. Will I be okay with that in practice after I've actually sent the email? I don't know. But right now, I feel pretty okay with that, since I know most Ts don't like to do therapy by email. What I really want (I think) is just for her to know how I'm thinking/feeling so next session she will hopefully be more sensitive to that.

[Yearning0723]

It would be a lot easier for me to just find a new T if this T wasn't the best T I've had since starting therapy at age eight (and I've had A LOT of Ts) and if I didn't feel like she was super attuned to me and supportive of me and understanding of me 95% of the time. Like yesterday I was so scared to tell her all this really tough childhood stuff but she responded so well to it and was so validating and I felt so reassured and so cared about...I know other competent Ts might have responded in the same way; it's just that I feel like we do have a really good connection and therapeutic alliance, minus this boundary stuff. So maybe I want to send this email and if she still can't respond the way I need her to, then maybe it's time to move on, but I want to give her the chance to try.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by Yearning0723

It would be a lot easier for me to just find a new T if this T wasn't the best T I've had since starting therapy at age eight (and I've had A LOT of Ts) and if I didn't feel like she was super attuned to me and supportive of me and understanding of me 95% of the time. Like yesterday I was so scared to tell her all this really tough childhood stuff but she responded so well to it and was so validating and I felt so reassured and so cared about...I know other competent Ts might have responded in the same way; it's just that I feel like we do have a really good connection and therapeutic alliance, minus this boundary stuff. So maybe I want to send this email and if she still can't respond the way I need her to, then maybe it's time to move on, but I want to give her the chance to try.

I think this is a fair way to move. If you can't get her to be at least a little available when you need, it would be a good idea to find a T who isn't shaming you for having very normal needs.

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

I think this is a fair way to move. If you can't get her to be at least a little available when you need, it would be a good idea to find a T who isn't shaming you for having very normal needs.

So you don't think it would be crossing a line to send the email? I know it's long, but I just don't know how to cut it down any further and still say all the things I need to say.

[velcro003]

what has she explicitly said about emails? i'm just afraid it might not go down like you hope and cause further pain for you.

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by velcro003

what has she explicitly said about emails? i'm just afraid it might not go down like you hope and cause further pain for you.

She has explicitly told me not to contact her between sessions; we have 50 minute sessions once a week and that is all and she can't give me any more time than that. But if she gets upset at the email and won't at least try to be better about her responses to me, then I guess maybe my needs and her boundaries are not a good fit and maybe then I need to find a new T...I don't know if I'm ready for that, but I do not expect emailing her to turn out well. If it did, it would be a pleasant surprise.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by Yearning0723

She has explicitly told me not to contact her between sessions; we have 50 minute sessions once a week and that is all and she can't give me any more time than that. But if she gets upset at the email and won't at least try to be better about her responses to me, then I guess maybe my needs and her boundaries are not a good fit and maybe then I need to find a new T...I don't know if I'm ready for that, but I do not expect emailing her to turn out well. If it did, it would be a pleasant surprise.

Well, as long as you know it probably will be a difficult thing. Since you are sending the email regardless, you can remove the apologies. They mean nothing to her except show how anxious you are. Instead, put in a line that you are anxious about sending the email and leave it at that. You don't need to apologize or tell her "I know you said...". Also, maybe put in a line about how you think that you might need to find a new T if she is unwilling to be flexible on this issue.

This is no excuse for her behaviors, but I was thinking about it and there are possible personal reasons for it. But this is her stuff and not your and it shouldn't be getting in the way of proper treatment for you. But she may have been stalked or threatened in the past, causing her to have the boundaries she does now. Or she may have been taught in school that any pushing of very strict boundaries is considered "resistance" and must be strongly opposed. Again, this is her stuff that she needs to work out and it shouldn't be interfering with what is best for you. But if it helps you understand her more, that's a good thing.

[PeeJay]

Originally Posted by Yearning0723

She has explicitly told me not to contact her between sessions; we have 50 minute sessions once a week and that is all and she can't give me any more time than that. But if she gets upset at the email and won't at least try to be better about her responses to me, then I guess maybe my needs and her boundaries are not a good fit and maybe then I need to find a new T...I don't know if I'm ready for that, but I do not expect emailing her to turn out well. If it did, it would be a pleasant surprise.

One thing I do admire about your T, versus others I have dealt with, is that she is honest about not wanting emails.

Two other T's have told me, "E-mail is not secure." And I really think it's a ruse because they don't want to admit that they simply don't want e-mail.

Another T told me, "There's benefit to talking face to face." I respect that, too.

But as for your T. Sometimes it's easier to write something out. And then the T can print it out and have it ready for session and you two can go over it there.

She's making a big deal out of inter-session contact.

The other thing is, I work in the professional business world. "No contact," is a silly rule in my world. It doesn't even make sense. Who can build a solid relationship if one person treats the other as if his or her time is such a precious commodity that 50 minutes per week is all that is available.

She's not THAT special or important.

(Maybe my own biases are getting in the way here. She just seems like a prima donna to me. And she might be REALLY great in that 50 minutes. But it just strikes me as arrogant to feel above any other contact.)

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Well, as long as you know it probably will be a difficult thing. Since you are sending the email regardless, you can remove the apologies. They mean nothing to her except show how anxious you are. Instead, put in a line that you are anxious about sending the email and leave it at that. You don't need to apologize or tell her "I know you said...". Also, maybe put in a line about how you think that you might need to find a new T if she is unwilling to be flexible on this issue.

This is no excuse for her behaviors, but I was thinking about it and there are possible personal reasons for it. But this is her stuff and not your and it shouldn't be getting in the way of proper treatment for you. But she may have been stalked or threatened in the past, causing her to have the boundaries she does now. Or she may have been taught in school that any pushing of very strict boundaries is considered "resistance" and must be strongly opposed. Again, this is her stuff that she needs to work out and it shouldn't be interfering with what is best for you. But if it helps you understand her more, that's a good thing.

I don't know if this would seem like an ultimatum or not, or like I'm pushing too hard. Because I want to proceed cautiously on the potentially finding a new T front; it's not a sure thing for me.

And I know she's got a lot of her own stuff that affects her boundaries and those things have nothing to do with me, and I understand that, which is why I'm usually okay with respecting her boundaries as they are (or at least I'm working on being okay with it). It's just the way she responds to me when I bring up her boundaries that I have an issue with.

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by PeeJay

One thing I do admire about your T, versus others I have dealt with, is that she is honest about not wanting emails.

Two other T's have told me, "E-mail is not secure." And I really think it's a ruse because they don't want to admit that they simply don't want e-mail.

Another T told me, "There's benefit to talking face to face." I respect that, too.

But as for your T. Sometimes it's easier to write something out. And then the T can print it out and have it ready for session and you two can go over it there.

She's making a big deal out of inter-session contact.

The other thing is, I work in the professional business world. "No contact," is a silly rule in my world. It doesn't even make sense. Who can build a solid relationship if one person treats the other as if his or her time is such a precious commodity that 50 minutes per week is all that is available.

She's not THAT special or important.

(Maybe my own biases are getting in the way here. She just seems like a prima donna to me. And she might be REALLY great in that 50 minutes. But it just strikes me as arrogant to feel above any other contact.)

I don't think she feels above other contact; I think she just has her own reasons for needing to keep her work/personal lives separate. She's a person too...

Is it immature to send an email like this?

[unaluna]

Im unsure if you want to cross a line or draw a line. Either way, i think her availability is what it is, and if you want more intensive therapy (nothing wrong with that) then you should get it for yourself. Youre working very hard and moving very fast here. Just because youre young shouldnt be held against you, i dont think. You seem capable of doing the work. But this particular t might not be the one? Idk. I would look around at other ts.

Ugh. I can see both sides to this. I don't have a therapist right now, but I would like one who allows outside contact. But if a therapist says they don't allow it then it should be respected I guess. I'd find someone else who would allow it. I don't know. It's hard. It's all SO hard.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Yearning0723

I don't think she feels above other contact; I think she just has her own reasons for needing to keep her work/personal lives separate. She's a person too...

Is it immature to send an email like this?

Yes she's a person too. But this is key - your therapy is supposed to be about YOU, not you worrying so much about how to take care of her and rationalize your needs away.

No, it's not immature to send this email to her. You need to communicate this to her, and in my opinion her personal style as a therapist is making it very difficult for you to broach it, discuss it, and have honest contact around the issue.

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by hankster

Im unsure if you want to cross a line or draw a line. Either way, i think her availability is what it is, and if you want more intensive therapy (nothing wrong with that) then you should get it for yourself. Youre working very hard and moving very fast here. Just because youre young shouldnt be held against you, i dont think. You seem capable of doing the work. But this particular t might not be the one? Idk. I would look around at other ts.

I know I should probably do that, and I've done some research (but haven't actually called anyone because I haven't found a T who looked like a good fit on paper yet). But it's hard to start over after eight months of working really well with her and since so many things feel so good in session with her. I know eight months isn't such a long time, but it feels like a long time to an 18 year old and I think I'm just not ready yet. But if I send her this email and she responds really badly to it, that might make me ready. I don't know.

[PeeJay]

Originally Posted by Yearning0723

I don't think she feels above other contact; I think she just has her own reasons for needing to keep her work/personal lives separate. She's a person too...

Is it immature to send an email like this?

Can you condense the email into five sentences, tops?

I think it would help to clarify your thinking and also is a compromise between not emailing at all and sending a long email.

My former T didn't want emails and so I condensed them very tightly as discussion points for the next session.

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by PeeJay

Can you condense the email into five sentences, tops?

I think it would help to clarify your thinking and also is a compromise between not emailing at all and sending a long email.

My former T didn't want emails and so I condensed them very tightly as discussion points for the next session.

I don't know how to do that properly without leaving out important stuff...any suggestions?

(I have this exact same problem with essays/stories. I hate cutting things down. Perhaps I am too in love with my own writing/stream of consciousness.)

I am really trying to do this in the most mature way possible though.