[IndestructibleGirl]

Again, I am so sorry for all the threads. I feel very exposed or threatened, or something, and have nowhere else to really go, because the kinds of things I need to say or ask are things I'm not sure I want friends or my brother knowing about.

I made a comment on my thread a few days ago about my therapist talking about her breasts, and the surprise that generated made a point to me. I think it has put me in hyper-aware mode, because other instances are occurring to me and now I don't know if they were non-events like I thought at the time. I am feeling paranoid now my therapist predicted my erotic transference and knew about it before I did.

Does your T bring up sex if you don't, or ask if you have sexual feelings in the moment?

I'm thinking of a couple of times I was talking about something difficult and she asked if I was having sexual feelings, in a sort of 'I know it's ridiculous' way, and I was like because I was not at all. And when out of the blue once or twice, when she was trying to make an example of something, she used having sex as the example, and on one of these times she made a guess at the pet name I might like to be called by a lover - on that occasion, I knew cognitively I was embarrassed. But I used to be so frozen in those days, I didn't feel it and was fine. And once - and this is probably the one that I find most bizarre - when I was telling her something painful, I can't even remember now, but when I was telling her about the pain of the rough session - she said casually, well I have never waxed my vagina but I imagine the pain you're feeling is the emotional equivalent. And again I was like, where did that come from

Wft is all this?? Is it hinting that she knows about the transference that has only made itself conscious in me, is it her trying to let me know it's no big deal? I'm even more uneasy now if she has had a good idea for months that this would happen. Like I was earmarked as a cliché.

It doesn't feel like nothing though I have a session in the morning and I am dreading it right now.

[CameraObscura]

I've never had a therapist talk about their own bodies in a sexual way, or describe body parts , or speak in a way that could be construed as encouragement to imagine them naked.

My therapists have asked me what I am feeling in my body at a given moment, but not if I am feeling sexual feelings in particular.

My current t has asked if I want to talk about sex, but that's because it is an issue I am actively working on engaging in therapy right now, not as a question out of the blue.

I think I would have had a difficult time with the vagina waxing remark - my instinct would be to push her on what was going on in her head that that's the analogy she chose. Or I would point and laugh, and feel very uncomfortable about the whole thing later.

The guessing what pet name I would like to be called in bed - oh hell no. Step off, t. Way out of bounds (to me).

Reading your post makes me feel a little uncomfortable and wonder if there is something going on with your t she hasn't addressed in supervision.

Just my .02.

[unaluna]

She actually said "waxed her vajayjay" rather than like "had a Brazilian"? This woman has no boundaries, imo. That or she may be adjusting her conversational style to what she thinks would make you more comfortable? How are you defining normal?

[IndestructibleGirl]

Yes, actually said waxed her vagina. It was startling.

I don't think it's trying to mirror my conversation - I don't pepper my conversation with her with random sexual snippets. I have talked about some sexual things that I have chosen and she was great and very sensitive on those topics.

As for defining normal, I don't really know. I guess I'm wondering is it normal for Ts to drop those remarks into the conversation every now and again?

[rainbow8]

No, I don't think it's normal for a T to make remarks about her body, especially sexual parts, like your T did. I'm not sure what it means, but I doubt most Ts would say those kinds of things.

The only case I can think of, is if you talked like that, and she was talking in your language, but you said that's not true.

Maybe she had an unusual upbringing where talk like that was the norm? I can't imagine that, though. Ts are usually careful about not talking about sex unless you bring it up. I do remember my T asking a general question about sex early in my therapy, but that's all.

If I were you, I'd tell her that you're uncomfortable with the way she talks about sex in your sessions, and tell her what you posted. I can see that may be embarrassing; maybe you can write it down and give it to her.

Does she seem "normal" in other ways, or does she talk about herself and her experiences often?

I'm sorry you're so agitated, but I think that's because your T's choice of words is troubling. I'll be a pocket rider for your session if you'd like.

[unaluna]

Okay, i dont mean to press, but you did mention your extra-curricular activities here pretty casually. So why are you objecting to her mentioning similar things? Maybe shes trying to show you that such things arent as casual as you were making them? Obviously its impossible for us to judge whats going on. Therapy doesnt happen in a vacuum. But if its making you uncomfortable, then speak up.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Thank you, I sure do appreciate the pocket rider offer! xx

The times I have talked about sex on purpose, in ways I have been frank but in others I have actually been slightly hesitant about saying some things and had to write them down. So I'm definitely not just making constant sexual references.

She has told me a lot about herself. Her own journey (very helpful to hear) and plenty of mentions of boyfriends (sometimes useful, sometimes I wondered why she was telling me).

[IndestructibleGirl]

Hankster yes I am very casual with my friends and in general about bdsm. I have discussed aspects of it in my sessions before - including some that were making me searingly unhappy. Some abusive stuff. Most of the talking about sex I do, I have been slightly dissociated, academic and clinical, because I am going through some upheaval regarding my points of view.

I don't really see what throwaway sexual remarks have to do with this, or remarks about intimate personal grooming? And when not actively discussing sex, I am mindful of her boundaries and don't adk personal questions, and then am surprised when she volunteers those bits of information.

[Leah123]

Do you think your T is trying to match your comfort level regarding sexual topics? They aren't taboo unless there are relevant disturbing issues... I recall you telling her about some explicit uncommon sexual activities- could she be trying to just help you feel comfortable with the disclosure and match your level of discussion?

My therapist does a bit of this, part of the process of attunement.

[IndestructibleGirl]

That makes sense, but I still find it unsettling. Maybe it's another part of maternal transference at work, but I get a bit jarred by her taking sex into the discussion at random.

Yet another reason I am growing away from my therapist, I suppose.

[sweepy62]

My therapists have never brought up anything sexual, and even when discussing csa they have been careful only using words im comfortable with for now, I have read that sex therapists, do use those words with thier clients, but that is different in your case.

im thinking since you have so much confusion going on in your therapeutic relationship right now, being that its blurred right now, everything is coming into question for you.

until you resolve this with your t, imo, you are not going to be able to work on your goals safely within a good therapy frame.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

That makes sense, but I still find it unsettling. Maybe it's another part of maternal transference at work, but I get a bit jarred by her taking sex into the discussion at random.

Yet another reason I am growing away from my therapist, I suppose.

Like i would flirt up one side and down the other with my t, but if he made a crack, i would get all freaked out and think hes coming on to me. You say its not really pleasant for you even when you initiate it, that you dissociate etc. I was pretty compulsive about it myself. I grew up with my mom not around much and listening to my dad tell stories that were not appropriate for a little girl's ears. Kind of a non touching CSA. So i just told my t when he freaked me out. I would say, see a part of me thinks youre really flirting with me - its okay if i do it, but not if you do it! If your t doesnt understand that, then yeah youve got a problem.

[growlycat]

Your T may be trying to "normalize" talking about intimate topics, to make you feel more at ease, that it is ok to talk about these things.

Maybe she is aware of strong transference/feelings on your part and wants to bring them to the surface. I don't see anything alarming about her language, but if it is too much you have a right to say so.

[Favorite Jeans]

I'm trying to think why she would do that and I keep coming up blank. The whole "emotional equivalent of waxing my vagina" comment sounds like something a comedian might say. Or maybe a friend after a couple of drinks. It's not that comment itself is so out there but that it strikes me as totally inappropriate for therapy. But trying to guess what someone calls you in bed just crosses every kind of line for me.

I think it's okay for a therapist to ask about sex but there needs to be a reason for it. And I think that reason should be immediately apparent and relevant to what you've been talking about. It doesn't sound like her reasons were totally clear to you.

Is she trying to provoke you? Is she trying to be all down with how the kidz are talking these days and bridging the generation gap? Is she just wacky and lacking a filter between her brain and her mouth? It would make me uncomfortable.

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

Is she trying to be all down with how the kidz are talking these days

Tee hee! I think you hit on something with that one. That could be it!

[AllyIsHopeful]

Whoa those are some pretty explicit remarks! However I don't necessarily think a hasty assumption should be made about the meaning behind these remarks. I agree that she may have been attempting to match your level of speaking in order to make you feel more comfortable in disclosing certain issues. Perhaps she is being blunt with you because she suspects you are holding something back or uncomfortable with saying something?

Do you feel horrified at the thought of bringing this up with her? It might be the best thing to do...Just so you don't drive yourself crazy with the unknown, because that is never a good feeling!

[AllyIsHopeful]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

Is she trying to provoke you? Is she trying to be all down with how the kidz are talking these days and bridging the generation gap? Is she just wacky and lacking a filter between her brain and her mouth? It would make me uncomfortable.

LOL...FJ...one million hugs, as usual.

[brillskep]

Nope, I don't think this is the norm in a therapy session ... I'm quite speechless right now, really. It sounds like intimate talk imposed on you somehow and, whatever her original intention, it's clearly not helping you. Would you consider telling your therapist you feel uncomfortable when she talks like that?

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

I'm trying to think why she would do that and I keep coming up blank. The whole "emotional equivalent of waxing my vagina" comment sounds like something a comedian might say. Or maybe a friend after a couple of drinks. It's not that comment itself is so out there but that it strikes me as totally inappropriate for therapy. But trying to guess what someone calls you in bed just crosses every kind of line for me.

I think it's okay for a therapist to ask about sex but there needs to be a reason for it. And I think that reason should be immediately apparent and relevant to what you've been talking about. It doesn't sound like her reasons were totally clear to you.

Is she trying to provoke you? Is she trying to be all down with how the kidz are talking these days and bridging the generation gap? Is she just wacky and lacking a filter between her brain and her mouth? It would make me uncomfortable.

The bit of your post I've bolded - yes that's exactly it. It's the kind of wisecrack my friends would make. We are very open and explicit, but I don't want my therapy to be like that. I want my therapy environment to model something more balanced. As for being down with the kidz - she's only in her thirties, still a young 'un herself And I'm 29, so hardly a teenager.

Originally Posted by hankster

Like i would flirt up one side and down the other with my t, but if he made a crack, i would get all freaked out and think hes coming on to me. You say its not really pleasant for you even when you initiate it, that you dissociate etc. I was pretty compulsive about it myself. I grew up with my mom not around much and listening to my dad tell stories that were not appropriate for a little girl's ears. Kind of a non touching CSA. So i just told my t when he freaked me out. I would say, see a part of me thinks youre really flirting with me - its okay if i do it, but not if you do it! If your t doesnt understand that, then yeah youve got a problem.

Yes. I understand the non touching abusive stuff. To her absolute credit, my therapist was the person who validated me, and taught me that just because there's no touching doesn't mean what's going on is appropriate. I'm so sorry you went through this, Hankster.

I definitely do not flirt, however. Because I do move in very alternative circles, and have been questioning some of that, I am always very careful to not make anyone uncomfortable by making sexual references all the time. I don't ram my sexuality down anyone's throat. She definitely doesn't flirt, either - whatever it is she does when she says these startling things, it ain't flirting.

Originally Posted by brillskep

Nope, I don't think this is the norm in a therapy session ... I'm quite speechless right now, really. It sounds like intimate talk imposed on you somehow and, whatever her original intention, it's clearly not helping you. Would you consider telling your therapist you feel uncomfortable when she talks like that?

Yes, that's what it does feel like, when it happens. Intimate talk being imposed, and while that was ok at the time, I'm suspicious now because everything is wrong.

[Faking sane]

Do you think it could be something she's doing to try to desensitize you to sexual terms... To normalize taking about x for you? Do you have some abuse in your past that you haven't talked about yet and she's just trying to trigger you to get it out there? That's what frustrates me about therapy. You never know what their motives are in the moment. How about just ask her about it outright. In the hallway where the receptionist can hear.

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[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Faking sane

Do you think it could be something she's doing to try to desensitize you to sexual terms... To normalize taking about x for you? Do you have some abuse in your past that you haven't talked about yet and she's just trying to trigger you to get it out there? That's what frustrates me about therapy. You never know what their motives are in the moment. How about just ask her about it outright. In the hallway where the receptionist can hear.

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Thanks for this, Faking sane. After my session today I think I know what was happening, she said she feels that we work best with this level of candour. And she said she has thought I was edging towards romantic transference for a while, so I think she was trying to make it clear that there was room for those feelings, that she wasn't going to freak out.

Now that my recent thunderbolt of love for her is out in the open, I expect she will be more careful about stories that refer to her boobs etc, in case I should be overcome by lust and attempt to ravish her in the office

[Faking sane]

Hahaha

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[Bipolarchic14]

That is really bizarre. I would be mortified if my therapist talked to me like that. Come to think of it I think I would be horrified if anyone spoke to me like that. TMI.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Bipolarchic14

That is really bizarre. I would be mortified if my therapist talked to me like that. Come to think of it I think I would be horrified if anyone spoke to me like that. TMI.

See, I wouldn't with my friends. We are very open and blunt, I suppose. We talk about everything sexual.

But I was suspicious of it in the therapy room, because I'm not like that there. I guess my therapist knew that I was falling for her and was trying to show me it wouldn't end in disaster if I said it to her.

I think possibly I was so unconsciously being scrupulous about not wanting to make sexual references (apart from specific things from my past) in case it forced me to look at burgeoning transference. I thought if I kept everything sanitized and sterile I could control it. So I was annoyed at my therapist for ruining my plan by making these throwaway remarks.

It does feel easier now to not have to police any feelings that might come up. It's like coming out as queer again