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Old Sep 11, 2014, 12:33 PM
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I had a session with LCM today. It was highly unique. We met at a Starbucks and I complained about how public it was so she drove me over to our tree. This tree turns bright red in the fall and she'd take me on a walk to it when I was having a panic attack/disassociated. Anyway, we sat in her car and then on a park bench for a while to talk.

When we first met, LCM had an intake with me where I told her about the abuse I experienced except I didn't talk about the CSA because I didn't remember it at that point/was more in denial. The next day, she straight up asked me if I had ever experienced CSA. I said no and was upset that she asked.

I asked her about that again today. I asked if she believed me when I said I didn't experience any CSA. She deflected the answer at first. She said I showed all of the signs but then said something like she only cares about what I remember. We went back and forth like that for a few minutes until I said "okay, I know you are trying to say you didn't believe me. I'm not upset"
LCM: "okay well you're right. I didn't. I knew there was something else there. I didn't know what it was exactly and obviously I wasn't ever going to touch the topic until you told me, but yeah"

It's interesting to me because I know that my old school T thought something had happened too. I guess I'm just a little concerned that I'm obvious about it. I don't want everyone to know. I probably am obvious or maybe it's just something people assume because I'm an overweight girl. I don't know. Maybe I'm just paranoid.

I loved seeing her despite how many people will probably freak out about her putting me in her car and driving me around. I half jokingly asked her to drive me to school and she laughed and said she would but that would be too much for my transference.
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  #2  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 12:39 PM
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I honestly doubt most other people think about any other person all that much except if lovers or something. Certainly more than being in a class or saying hi in the lunch line. And even if someone was to guess, what difference would it make?
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  #3  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 12:42 PM
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It'd be impossible for anyone to realistically suspect a random adult was sexually abused based on appearance, characteristics or behaviors. It doesn't cause any singular, unique identifying symptoms. Symptoms can represent a number of disorders or none at all. For example, you mention being overweight: last I checked, more than two-thirds of American adults were overweight or obese.

Once you're able to process your experience, you won't have that internal pressure that feels like it can be seen externally, that feeling of being different and sticking out will
resolve.

(P.S. Also, therapists are notoriously quick to consider sexual abuse because it's often not disclosed, so they're certainly more mindful of the possibility than anyone else in the general population. Joe schmo doesn't think like your high school counselor dealing with troubled girls all day long. When one is hypervigilant about abuse and protecting children, they can suspect it everywhere and extra careful to consider it.)

Last edited by Leah123; Sep 11, 2014 at 02:06 PM.
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  #4  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 12:50 PM
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vonmoxie vonmoxie is offline
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I really don't think your psych practitioners being able to spot it reflects at all on the general public's ability to do so. Definitely not something you need to worry about.
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Antonio R. Damasio, “The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness” (p.28)
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  #5  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I honestly doubt most other people think about any other person all that much except if lovers or something. Certainly more than being in a class or saying hi in the lunch line. And even if someone was to guess, what difference would it make?

I think about people and wonder their stories but I never really assume anything.

I find it disgusting and I am disgusted with myself and ashamed. I wouldn't/don't find someone else who has gone through CSA disgusting or think they should be ashamed but I guess it feels different when it's me. I guess I could even apply the same logic that others probably would see me as I see someone else who went through it. But for some reason, I can't. I just don't want anyone to see me any differently and I know they would.
  #6  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leah123 View Post
It'd be impossible for anyone to realistically suspect a random adult was sexually abused based on appearance, characteristics or behaviors. It doesn't cause any singular, unique identifying symptoms. Symptoms can represent a number of disorders or none at all. For example, you mention being overweight: last I checked, more than two-thirds of American adults were overweight or obese.

Once you're able to process your experience, you won't have that internal pressure that feels like it can be seen externally, that feeling of being different and sticking out will
resolve.

(P.S. Also, therapists are notoriously quick to consider sexual abuse because it's often not disclosed, so they're certainly more mindful of the possibility than anyone else in the general population. Joe schmo doesn't think like your high school counselor dealing with troubled girls all day long. When one is hypervigilant about abuse and protecting children, they can suspect it everywhere and extra careful to consider it.)

Yeah I guess you're right. I just wonder what I did that clued them off.
  #7  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 02:25 PM
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Ts are trained professionals, who look for things to clue them into something "deeper." So, they look for certain things, that may suggest there was abuse and then ask. My T knew for awhile that there was something more, and I too, felt so exposed like everybody must know if T guessed. Then T reminded me that my parents still seem very oblivious to the fact that I was ever abused.. So, I am not as transparent as I thought I was.
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  #8  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 02:37 PM
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vonmoxie vonmoxie is offline
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Simple solution would be to ask them -- and tell them the concerns you have. Will probably be a long answer, as it wouldn't be any one thing that clued them in, but a combination of effects, none of which would on their own tip anyone off as individually those things could be the result of many different things. Only someone very knowledgeable about trauma psychology would be in a position to put it all together -- and it's a credit to them that they could. I never had any that specialized in trauma psychology, or that even drew conclusions which pointed to them having acquired any particularly relevant knowledge along the way. None of mine spotted it on their own, nor had any idea how to handle it once I started sharing on the topic.

There have been times that I felt everyone could tell something about me, and in my case that feeling has gone away on its own every time. It may be that you just need time to acclimate to the fact that you're talking about it at all.

Good luck.
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“We use our minds not to discover facts but to hide them. One of things the screen hides most effectively is the body, our own body, by which I mean, the ins and outs of it, its interiors. Like a veil thrown over the skin to secure its modesty, the screen partially removes from the mind the inner states of the body, those that constitute the flow of life as it wanders in the journey of each day.
Antonio R. Damasio, “The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness” (p.28)
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  #9  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 02:53 PM
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Re: meeting outside a therapy office:

I think it can be healthy. I used to go for walks with main T, etc.

Last week CBT T and I met outside because the heat inside was worse. And he has been in my car , with me driving, to help with my driving phobia.

There are healthy boundary crossings which is totally different than boundary violations.
  #10  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 03:12 PM
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It only stands out to those who are trained and know what to look for. An average person isn't going to know about any CSA, but they may know that something is "off". I can tell when people have been abused if I am around them enough because there are certain tells, but I couldn't tell you what kind of abuse they suffered unless something they said or did made it obvious (flinched when I moved towards them indicating probable physical abuse, or saying certain manipulative things indicating emotional abuse, etc...).
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  #11  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vonmoxie View Post
Simple solution would be to ask them -- and tell them the concerns you have. Will probably be a long answer, as it wouldn't be any one thing that clued them in, but a combination of effects, none of which would on their own tip anyone off as individually those things could be the result of many different things. Only someone very knowledgeable about trauma psychology would be in a position to put it all together -- and it's a credit to them that they could. I never had any that specialized in trauma psychology, or that even drew conclusions which pointed to them having acquired any particularly relevant knowledge along the way. None of mine spotted it on their own, nor had any idea how to handle it once I started sharing on the topic.

There have been times that I felt everyone could tell something about me, and in my case that feeling has gone away on its own every time. It may be that you just need time to acclimate to the fact that you're talking about it at all.

Good luck.

I was thinking about asking her next week but I think I already know how it will go down.

Me: "how did you know?"
Her: "I just knew"
Me: "No like what specifically"
Her: "Oh my god growli I just knew"
Me: "That's a horrible answer"
Her: "What are you worked about?"
Me: "Why are you avoiding my question?"
Her: "I'm not. I just answered it. I just knew"
Me: "and I said that answer was terrible"
Her: "well you just learn to pick up on these things when you work with people"
Me: "what did I do that made you pick up on anything?"
Her: "oh my god you're such a piece of work you know that right?"
Me: "yes and you're supposed to be working on me"
Her: "yes and you are avoiding getting worked on right now by running me in circles. Listen *actually answers question"

lol this is basically a conversation we had today when I asked for a hug and she said no and I asked her why she hugs me some days and not others. This is all very playful btw. I got my hug in the end dumb woman lol.
  #12  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growlycat View Post
Re: meeting outside a therapy office:

I think it can be healthy. I used to go for walks with main T, etc.

Last week CBT T and I met outside because the heat inside was worse. And he has been in my car , with me driving, to help with my driving phobia.

There are healthy boundary crossings which is totally different than boundary violations.

It wasn't a boundary violation. Neither of us felt boundary violated. I'm saying people on here seem to get upset about boundaries really quickly like when she tied my shoes.
  #13  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by growlithing View Post
It wasn't a boundary violation. Neither of us felt boundary violated. I'm saying people on here seem to get upset about boundaries really quickly like when she tied my shoes.
Eeek, you misunderstand me.

I think what she did was perfectly appropriate.
A boundary crossing is when a T does something out of the ordinary that is helpful and therapeutic, although not standard.

A boundary violation is something more sinister.

Your experience seems to fall in the healthy category.
  #14  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 03:31 PM
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Well, it's true that when you've been at a profession for a while, things can become intuitive, so it could actually be hard to answer with a lot of specifics. I used to work at a small construction company, and all the calls were either from vendors, homeowners, or subcontractors. After a few years it got to the point where I could tell immediately upon picking up the phone, just by the way the person was breathing which of those it was, even if it was a person I'd never spoken to before. Didn't require any conscious thought on my part, so I can imagine it would be hard to dissect upon inquiry.

My last therapist was pretty evasive about answering anything I asked him too though. Seemed like he felt really micro-managed to be asked the very few really reasonable questions I ever did, and he almost always answered a question with a question. In retrospect I wish I'd held his feet to the fire more. Time is money, and unfortunately I'm now out of both, having gotten very few answers out of the whole experience.
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Antonio R. Damasio, “The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness” (p.28)
  #15  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 03:57 PM
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I've been asked by multiple people over the years if I was sexually abused.

My T has also asked me that.

I haven't been sexually abused at all, ever. But My reactions and behaviours match up with people who have been, especially in regards to my perceptions of my body and anything to do with touch.

So, no, I wouldn't worry about everyone knowing. It's easy to mix things up in various ways - all behaviours and mannerisms has many potential reasons for being.
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Old Sep 11, 2014, 03:58 PM
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It's something that therapists and psychiatrists look for. When an adolescent or young adult (especially female( is clinically depressed or anxious that's not typical, and is a often sign that something might be off at home or elsewhere. When I was hospitalized at 12, all the staff initially assumed I was sexually abused. I wasn't, but I actually asked outright when my psychiatrist visited because I was curious (they really pushed the issue with me and my parents). She said I showed all the signs- withdrawn, drop in grades, depressed, sui, social anxiety, etc. She said the only big sign missing was substance abuse. Anyway, this is not something the general population notices, just people in the mental health field.
  #17  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 04:01 PM
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That sounds like such a lovely and sweet appointment. I'm glad that you were able to open up and be honest. My T told me that she knew I was BPD from the first time she met me. I think T's just have that sixth sense. I like hearing that they see things like that so immediately, it really makes me feel like they are being attentive and caring.
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  #18  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growlycat View Post
Eeek, you misunderstand me.


I think what she did was perfectly appropriate.

A boundary crossing is when a T does something out of the ordinary that is helpful and therapeutic, although not standard.


A boundary violation is something more sinister.


Your experience seems to fall in the healthy category.

Whoops, I meant to say *I agree, this wasn't a boundary violation.

We were on the same page
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  #19  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I honestly doubt most other people think about any other person all that much except if lovers or something. Certainly more than being in a class or saying hi in the lunch line. And even if someone was to guess, what difference would it make?
I agree. Most people think about themselves not other people. It's just human nature.
  #20  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by vonmoxie View Post
Well, it's true that when you've been at a profession for a while, things can become intuitive, so it could actually be hard to answer with a lot of specifics. I used to work at a small construction company, and all the calls were either from vendors, homeowners, or subcontractors. After a few years it got to the point where I could tell immediately upon picking up the phone, just by the way the person was breathing which of those it was, even if it was a person I'd never spoken to before. Didn't require any conscious thought on my part, so I can imagine it would be hard to dissect upon inquiry.

My last therapist was pretty evasive about answering anything I asked him too though. Seemed like he felt really micro-managed to be asked the very few really reasonable questions I ever did, and he almost always answered a question with a question. In retrospect I wish I'd held his feet to the fire more. Time is money, and unfortunately I'm now out of both, having gotten very few answers out of the whole experience.

Yeah I understand that. And I know it's probably something like that. It's just frustrating because I want to know exactly how I breathed that let it off.

Idk I guess I just feel like I have this horrible secret I don't want anyone to know despite the fact that I shouldn't be so ashamed about it. Kinda like how my gay friends describe being in the closest in high school except obviously different. Probably less all encompassing but I really don't know.
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  #21  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Depletion View Post
That sounds like such a lovely and sweet appointment. I'm glad that you were able to open up and be honest. My T told me that she knew I was BPD from the first time she met me. I think T's just have that sixth sense. I like hearing that they see things like that so immediately, it really makes me feel like they are being attentive and caring.

LCM is very attentive and caring except a little wacky but that's kinda to be expected in this field lol. For the most part she's really great about knowing what I'm not saying. Like really crazy good. But sometimes, she's really off, mostly about paranoia of losing people I love.

Like today, she was driving without a seatbelt and I got upset and said I'm worried about her dying.

Her: "why are you worried? That means you want me to die"
Me: "dammit no you see I avoid saying that because I know you're gonna give me that **** in response. I have no clue why except you are clearly projecting the fact that you want everyone to die all the time"
Her: "what??!!!"
Me: "that's exactly how I feel when you say **** like that so stop it"

She laughed really hard. But I don't really get why she always draws that conclusion. It's pretty obvious. I'm terrified of abandonment, not suppressing homicidal feelings.

But I feel like BPD is different than picking up on CSA. I got pretty good at figuring out who is bipolar in the hospital (spoiler- everyone). I guess it might not be.
Thanks for this!
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  #22  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 06:07 PM
The_little_didgee The_little_didgee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leah123 View Post
(P.S. Also, therapists are notoriously quick to consider sexual abuse because it's often not disclosed, so they're certainly more mindful of the possibility than anyone else in the general population. Joe schmo doesn't think like your high school counselor dealing with troubled girls all day long. When one is hypervigilant about abuse and protecting children, they can suspect it everywhere and extra careful to consider it.)

Sometimes they are too quick to conclude abuse took place. They did it to me. It really messed me up and made me doubt everything I knew about myself and my family. It was traumatic.

Some of my ASD symptoms were mistaken for signs of abuse such as my sensory issues (E.g. trouble with direct skin contact) and my asexual tendencies. All the anger I had due to severe bullying also contributed to the appearance of a youth in turmoil with a trauma history. The well intending therapists were convinced I was sexually abused, but I never was. If they did an ASD assessment in 1994 this wouldn't have happened.

What other signs do therapists look for?

I know two people who were abused. They never displayed any signs that suggested it. I found out because they told me.
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Old Sep 11, 2014, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_little_didgee View Post

Sometimes they are too quick to conclude abuse took place. They did it to me. It really messed me up and made me doubt everything I knew about myself and my family. It was traumatic.

Some of my ASD symptoms were mistaken for signs of abuse such as my sensory issues (E.g. trouble with direct skin contact) and my asexual tendencies. All the anger I had due to severe bullying also contributed to the appearance of a youth in turmoil with a trauma history. The well intending therapists were convinced I was sexually abused, but I never was. If they did an ASD assessment in 1994 this wouldn't have happened.

What other signs do therapists look for?

I know two people who were abused. They never displayed any signs that suggested it. I found out because they told me.

I'm just really thankful that all of the people who suspected it regardless of me saying it didn't happen were really respectful of that and let me figure it out on my own. No one tried to make me remember anything or question my past. If they did, I'd be even more confused and wary of the validity of my memories.
  #24  
Old Sep 11, 2014, 09:26 PM
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I'm sorry. I just love her so much. I was so upset this morning. I felt so trapped inside of myself because I felt like I couldn't tell anyone what was really going on. I protected her from what's really going on with me and I let myself unravel for a few months. Then, on the park bench, I sat real close to her and she asked me what's really going on. I started to cry. She said I don't deserve to live in pain forever and I don't have to be tormented like this. "Sweetheart please let me help you with this. You don't have to be alone. I can't talk you through the memories but I can talk about the feelings you have about the memories. Please darling I want to help you. It doesn't have to be this way". I talked just for under five minutes about the feelings surrounding it and I feel so much better. I feel less trapped and less hopeless. Maybe it will only last a day but I love her so much just for helping me break out of my thoughts even for the day.
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  #25  
Old Sep 12, 2014, 12:57 AM
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It's one in five girls and that's a "normal" population. So I can imagine it'd be much, much higher with girls/women suffering from depression, eating disorder and SI behavior... It's not the way you breathe...
I don't like her I-just-knew response:
A she didn't, she could have suspected it but she didn't know.
B many CSA survivors already worry ppl can somehow tell and this feeds right into it.

No, I don't see a problem with her giving you a ride/weird she felt taking you to school would be too much- feel like that's implying she felt it was not kosher. SB is not a great place for therapy to start with but than again she is NOT a T... I do wonder about tell me your feeling re the memories but not the memories approach. Now that's new... Can't imagine how that would go... Cant she just help you find a real T?
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