[guilloche]

I think that one of the things that leaves me uncertain about Current-T is this... I don't know... this feeling that his judgement/perception might not be that good?

For example.... I was discussing previous Ts, because there's alot of hurtful stuff there for me. I mentioned a T that I saw once, but didn't return to and he said.... that it seems to be a pattern of mine to just cut people off.

I'm thinking about that now, and I don't think it's accurate. I've discussed 5 Ts with him.

- 2 - I left after one visit, because they were bad fits for me
- 1 - I stayed with for a year as things got worse (going 2x/week!) until the T kicked me out!
- 1 - I stayed with for 3 sessions, and then she kicked me out. I would have continued, had I not been kicked out!
- 1 - I stayed with for THREE YEARS while making no progress. She was kind and wanted to help, and I finally left after 3 years because I was having some other medical problems that needed my attention.

On top of that, everything I've read says you really need to find a T you click with, and should try out several Ts.

I guess his comment just made me feel judged and bad for not sticking with the initial therapist. But initial therapist really did not feel like a good match in any way for me. It wasn't even a "pros vs. cons" thing - there were no pros, and I couldn't get out of there fast enough!

Is this how therapy is going to always be?

[A Red Panda]

I've been learning to trust my T's judgements.

Then again, I also pushed myself to let him know when he was flat out wrong about something about me. After knowing each other longer he knows me well enough that he doesn't tend to make assumptions anymore - he'll ask.

[musinglizzy]

I trust my T's judgment. We clicked from day one and she's not steered me down a wrong path yet. I would be horrified if she kicked me out. Do you know why those T's did that to you?

Interesting you say he thinks you make a habit of cutting people off.... I actually willingly say that about myself. Sometimes feel like when I get too comfortable, it's time for me to walk away. And there've been a handful of times with her, too, where I thought I didn't want to continue my therapy, or seeing her.... but I've managed to stick it through. Like I don't want to get too close, I'm not sure. And I'm talking about life in general...because therapy is relatively new to me yet.

[ThisWayOut]

I think it's something to bring up. Was there other insight he had that he would have based that comment on (not just the T thing, but other areas of life? relationships, work, hobbies, etc?).
T's tend to make some assumptions, though if he based it on just the T situation, it's a pretty huge assumption to make...
Like A Red Panda, i've learned to trust my T by trial and error, by pointing out times she is just wrong about something, and by recognizing when she's right. For me, therapy is a learning process. It's T learning about me, and me learning about T and myself.
If I recall correctly though, these aren't the first inklings of doubt you have had about this T. Does looking at the overall relationship you guys have warrant a change in T's at this point? Or is this something you would like to work out with T?

My T says things that I similarly don't always agree with, I was angry at the start about it, and perhaps unable to say how I felt. Now I am able to discuss these with her, I'll say things like, 'I'm not sure I see it like that' or 'I don't understand why you are thinking that' and give my views. I've stopped being angry and have started to value the things she says, I see it as her trying things out, she doesn't have to get it right and what she says is always thought provoking and leads to discussion, maybe it's her way of exploring things more deeply and getting me to explain things to her more.

[Xenon]

Originally Posted by Brown Owl

My T says things that I similarly don't always agree with, I was angry at the start about it, and perhaps unable to say how I felt. Now I am able to discuss these with her, I'll say things like, 'I'm not sure I see it like that' or 'I don't understand why you are thinking that' and give my views. I've stopped being angry and have started to value the things she says, I see it as her trying things out, she doesn't have to get it right and what she says is always thought provoking and leads to discussion, maybe it's her way of exploring things more deeply and getting me to explain things to her more.

I think this here is really key, whether they'll hear you out if you correct them or say, "Well, it's more like this..." No one's right about people all the time and it's okay to not always agree, but if they listen to you and respect you as the expert on your own life and experiences, then you could have a discussion about it that might lead somewhere fruitful. If they act like they're infallibly insightful about what's going on in your mind and any disagreement from you must be "resistance" or unwillingness "see the truth" or something along those lines, then I'd move on. I got enough of that crap from my dad growing up; I don't need it from a therapist.

My own T seems quite smart about people, but if she has a theory about something she still checks with me and listens to what I have to say. I think that's part of what makes one smart about people. If you don't hear people out, it's hard to learn anything about them, no matter how intelligent you may be.

So I think it depends on whether you can talk to them about it. Have you ever spoken up when you felt he was off-base? Is that difficult to do? How does he react?

[stopdog]

No. She has not proven to be on point on anything so far.

I trust my T's judgement, yes. We clicked from the very first phone call when I scheduled an initial consultation. I don't always immediately agree with things she says, but a lot of the time after I've had time to think I've realized she was right. There have been a couple times I told her she was flat-out wrong, and she was. But most of the time, she's spot-on about me.

[Ad Intra]

I take everything she says with a grain of salt. She has been helpful, but sometimes I think she's wrong. I never have an argument, just a gut feeling like she is wrong. I'm not a fan of arguing.

[Asiablue]

No, I currently do not trust her judgement. And I think this is a problem in my therapy. I don't trust her to do her job and I'm always looking for signs of incompetence. This is more a reflection on me than her though.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I trust her judgment and she trusts mine. It's due to our agreement that we will both be open and honest, and that we have honored that for over a yr now. We always make sure we're on the same page and ask for clarification if we're not.

But that doesn't mean we always agree or like what the other person has to say. Example: every week she brings up DBT group (which isn't an option at this point). And every week I roll my eyes at her and she brings it to my attention and laughs. She knows I don't ever want to go and I know she's right that I need it. So if it ever is available to me, I'll go...as she likes to put it "kicking and screaming".

[guilloche]

OK, wow. I'm surprised at how many people clicked with their Ts from Day 1. I feel "un-clickable". I have *never* felt like I clicked with a T (ok, except maybe Consult-T - who was just consulting and wouldn't take me on as a full-time client).

Thanks to everyone recommending that I talk to him. I will. I'm mentally preparing myself. Yes, he has actually been very good at accepting feedback that I give him and has modified some things. And, he said in the session (we were talking about how the old T asked what I needed, and then accused me of trying to change him!) that he would do whatever was necessary that he could do. So I know he's trying. It just completely throws me when he puts 2 and 2 together and comes up with 17. And, apparently, I'm a bit hypersensitive, because I do end up feeling judged and awful... (like, "you're a horrible person for cutting all these people out of your life! Why didn't you give those poor Ts more of a chance! I bet they were great! What's wrong with you?" *sigh* (and writing that out, and realizing most people maybe don't think that way, then makes me feel even worse and more awful!)

Musinglizzy - That's interesting that you say that about yourself, and are ok with it. It helps me feel a little less judgement from my T saying it, so thank you! But I'm still not sure that's me - if anything, I think that if there's the tiniest sliver of hope, I tend to stay waaaay too long... like I said, the bad T who thought I was trying to change him... I only left because I got kicked out, for example.

re: getting kicked out of therapy, yes and no. For the therapist that I saw for a year, he didn't initially believe in dissociative disorders. I started reading about dissociation, brought it up, he danced around it... but after a year of awful, non-helpful interactions between us, he found an expert to do a consultation who diagnosed me with DDNOS. He had told me that he would "absolutely not" kick me out if I got diagnosed, and then when it happened said "it would be a mixed signal for me to tell you that you need a specialist, and then continue seeing you". So out I went. I know he was doing what he believed to be ethical, but it hurt, and it felt like the entire consultation (which was not cheap!) was a convenient way for him to get rid of me.

With the other one, she was actually his wife. He had referred me very early on (I didn't think I was going to want to work with him initially). I liked her, but after the third session she said that I needed immediate help, and she was going to be going on vacation for 2 weeks and unavailable, so sorry, no more sessions (!!!). It was lame. Even my current T agrees, very poorly handled. I actually *suspect* it was because I had told her that I was self-harming (a friend told me I had to be honest!) - but I wish she would have handled it better. I actually ended up back with the previous one (her husband, who I talked about above) after she kicked me out. Even though he was going on vacation too, obviously.

And when T asked why I thought she kicked me out after 3 sessions, I told him I had an idea but wasn't ready to tell him yet... so now I feel pressured to tell him that too, and I don't want to - especially given I got kicked out for it before!!!

ThisWayOut - Hmmmm I can't remember any other insights or comments tied to that observation. Crap, I don't know. My brain maybe flipped out enough at him saying that, that I didn't hear anything else? Err... I can't remember how I responded either. I don't think I said anything, but it was a weird session (there were some other things he randomly popped out with that completely tossed me for a loop of confusion... *sigh*)

And thanks for remembering! Yes, I've been unsure about this T... but I DO recognize that he's trying, and really appreciate that. It has been noticeably less awful than the previous therapists... how's that for an endorsement?!?

*sigh* I guess this will be first on my list of stuff to talk about this week. Oh, yes, I'm going back this week (starting to try to do every week, hoping that helps, as the list of stuff to talk about seems to be getting longer!)

Xenon - Yeah it's really hard for me to say something "in real time" if he's off base, or if he's doing anything that's freaking me out. We've touched on that a *tiny* bit, so he's aware, and he's actually asked me to please tell him... even if it's not right away (i.e. next session) and even if I have to write it out. And, yes, he's been good about hearing feedback and not being defensive. So, yes, I can see that I should (and will) bring it up with him. Thanks... you make really good points...

AsiaBlue - I very much resonate with what you're saying! I think the problem is, you can't really *force* yourself to feel like someone has good judgement, or to trust them. You can decide to share information with them (and I've done that), you can give them the benefit of the doubt and try out their advice to see if it works, you can do all sorts of things... but yeah, if that *feeling* isn't there, I don't know how you can create it, and I don't know what to do if you *never* feel that way with any therapist.

Thanks...

[musinglizzy]

Yep, I am ok with it, because it is what it is. Well, I guess, I am who I am. I'm glad it maybe eased your mind just a tiny bit. I'm trying to not push away/cut off....it's to the point now where I'll actually tell someone once I meet them and realize we click well, that I tend to do that, and I tell them SO DONT LET ME! It's a coping mechanism I'm sure. And something I've actually thought a lot about and have tried to dissect in my mind. And I came to that conclusion that perhaps I want to end it before they do. I had pretty severe attachment issues as a child, I didn't trust anyone. If I did, they were eventually taken away. So, it makes sense that I might still, even though I'm middle-aged now and NOT a child, have issues. I had no interest in therapy, in trying to heal myself, until now.

I think maybe deep down there is a safe zone, and once I've gone beyond that, I go into fight or flight mode. I spent half the summer thinking I wanted to quit therapy. Well, soon after starting, when I realized T and I clicked so well, I felt like I wanted to quit because I could feel I was going to like her. Then, later on, I felt like I wanted to quit because I DO hold her in deep regard, and I didn't WANT to like her, or later feel dependent, or get attached only to have her, for what ever reason, terminate.

Anyway, I don't see it as a bad thing necessarily.... if your T thinks you cut people off, that's just one thing the two of you can work through together. I'm definitely not afraid to admit it myself.... I don't see it as a personality flaw or anything like that, I see it more as a reaction to negative events in my life...which is why we're in therapy to begin with! So it's ok....you're ok....and so am I.

[ThisWayOut]

I'm glad you will try to talk to him this week. Therapy can be really scary and vulnerable sometimes (ok, a lot of the time), but it helps to know that the t is someone you can talk to about your concerns with the process in general and with how they implement things. My current t is the first t (she's #17 in as many years) that I have been able to voice my concerns to (even if it is only in writing and not out loud). It's definitely a learning process, but it's made all the difference. I hope your t continues to be receptive. And I hope you can finally get what you need from this t.

My t is very wise so yes i trust her judgment.

[ChildlikeEmpress]

I'm still very new with my T (4 sessions so far), so I don't really trust her judgement yet. We didn't have an immediate "click" like I have in the past with another T, but she is a nice lady and I like her enough to continue seeing her. Still, I don't think I'm quite at the trust stage yet.

I think insight is a good thing to have. A therapist can give observations, we will no if it fits or not... Your T's statement from where I'm sitting seemed pretty ok...

I trusted my T more than I should have. My mistake. All my instincts were wrong about him. I am STILL mourning the loss and the error in my ways to have trusted. Sometimes we cut people off for a reason and it may be very valid. My T lied to me . I'm not saying not to trust your T but be very cautious that he is on your side and is supportive of YOU. Mine gave up my confidence at the drop of a hat because he was lonely and was trying to impress a pretty client with his "insight" into my life. I could say a lot more but I'll leave it at that. His judgment was way off the chart.

You can always try trusting your T (or anyone for that matter) with little things first and see how it goes. Test the waters. See her reaction to your small revelations and ease into more serious ones. I have cut off people in my life for a reason, not arbitrarily. I'm sure you had reasons for cutting out the other T's or people in your life too. Do what you believe in for yourself.

I have had a couple of Ts whose judgment I did not trust particularly. I mean, in general I think they were smart, highly-educated people with sound opinions, but they did not understand me, and in the therapy situation that is kind of a deal breaker.

I do trust my current T's judgment. During my first couple of visits, before I saw him for therapy, he made some observations that made me feel understood, validated, and seen, in a way that my then-T had never managed to do. And that's interesting since I did not expect him, at that point, to be my therapist!

That is not to say that he is always right, but he is never arrogant and he doesn't presume to know more about who I am than I do myself. When he is wrong I tell him so.

[missbella]

No human being is 100 percent perfect, and therapists don't learn psychic reading in grad school. So when a therapist interprets and characterizes events he never witnessed involving people he didn't know and your mind, which he can't read, he's only guessing. To pretend otherwise is misleading.

One could just as easily "interpret" you as taking an active role in your own health care and seeking out appropriate providers. In my book, that's a good thing.

I too would find that "pattern of yours" statement judgmental, second guessing and undermining. There's no way for him to evaluate the care of people he never met. We often see actual witnesses observe events differently. (How many threads here or anywhere draw 100 percent consensus?)

And--I find broad-brushed criticism of the "you always/you never" category destructive.

I'd speculate the fleeting thought of therapists being fired is a touchy one, so there's the possibility that remark might have come from a transitory insecurity. You'll learn much more when you see whether he'll tolerate your feedback.

[nottrustin]

I absolutely trust my therapists judgement however, that doesn't mean I agree with her all the time. There is nobody in this world that I agree with all of the time so why should my therapist be any different.

[doyoutrustme]

I don't, but he is always right. It's annoying and freaky.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by doyoutrustme

...but he is always right. It's annoying and freaky.

I've actually asked my T if she could just let me be right for once. I have been right a few times... But I guess it's a good thing...wouldn't want a T who is always wrong.

[guilloche]

MusingLizzy - thanks, that was very interesting to read. I'm still not sure if I actually do that, at least in that way. I just don't know. I definitely disconnect and hide out from people sometimes, for my own sanity! - but it's not like I'm cutting them out of my life forever. I don't know.

I'm glad you have stuck with your T though, and that you guys click! I guess that I don't feel like I *click* with my T, but I do feel like there's something different about him (from my other Ts) that could be helpful. But I'm not 100% sure.

ThisWayOut - thanks. It's always hard and scary!!! But, yeah, I'm grateful that this T has been good about listening to my feedback. Previous Ts were not so good at this!

RisingTemp - Oh wow, I'm so sorry you went through that. And thanks for the reality check and reminder...

Mastodon - Thanks... yeah, I'm not sure if he understands me (yet). But it also goes a tiny bit beyond that, I think. I worry sometimes about comments he's made... things about how everybody stretches their experiences on their resume (which I know, but when he says it, it sounds like he's encouraging me to just throw reality out the window almost - yikes - and this has come up randomly twice), and something about how lots of people do lots of drugs in high school and college and turn out just fine (I haven't done any, it was a weird tangent, I don't really think I agree with where he was going with that one). Ugh. I don't know.

Missbella - thanks! I like your interpretation so much better! I'm not sure that I accurately remembered/captured how he phrased it, but it seemed so weird... since I'm pretty sure I had also, just in that session, told him about the bad T that I spent a year with and the other T who kicked me out after 3 sessions. I guess it feels weird b/c I feel like my history is filled with alot more people who left me, rather than vice versa - so I can't figure out how he got there mentally...

And, I don't expect psychic powers, really, I don't. But it worries me when T seems to consistently put the pieces together wrong. It means he's not getting me, or understanding what I'm telling him

thanks.... everyone... sorry i'm beat... long day trying to fix my home computer and get some other stuff done, i'm just exhausted and going to go crash... i think trying to think about therapy for this week (Tue) is kind of exhausting me too.

thanks...

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by guilloche

i think trying to think about therapy for this week (Tue) is kind of exhausting me too.

thanks...

I agree, "thinking" about therapy alone is exhausting! My T recently asked me to have a plan when I came in on what we would touch on that day. Up until then, I'd just kinda flown by the seat of my pants...and my sessions still worked out ok.

When she asked me to have an agenda so to speak, I found myself thinking of therapy TOO much. I go twice a week, and spent the time in between trying to figure out what I'd bring up at the next session. But I kind of liked how it had been going. It just worked for me. She realized that I felt some pressure with this new suggestion, and she dropped it. So we're back to just winging it.