Therapy Can't Help Me - I Am Not Rational

I didn't fully follow your post, either, except to say I feel for your anguish and discouragement about therapy. You mentioned you need to be "cured" of your sex orientation and therapy is useless unless it can do that. I would use the word "changed" rather than cured, as it is more neutral, as sex orientation should be regarded as a choice not a disease.
I totally disagree that gayness can't be changed. If you want to change, for whatever reason, you can, as on the deep psychological level, we are all sexual everything at a very young age. What therapy can do is regress a person to the age of original sexual choice where that choice can be consciously achieved. Granted, that is in-depth therapy that takes time and dedication.

I would certainly ask your T if he/she can deal with that issue, and take it from there. I hope you will stay in therapy, and continue to work on your distress and discouragement. It's great to have a professional to talk to, who won't judge you or turn the topic to his own self, like friends and family do. If your T can't go deeper in your search for identity, maybe start up with someone who does do deep therapy concurrently,(if you can afford it) so you can make the change gradually. Most people find it hard to suddenly switch therapists even when they discover the T doesn't do the kind of therapy they need.

Here is a link to APA discussion about the problems inherent in so-called reparative therapy (title seems focused to educators, but it isn't really):

Just the Facts about Sexual Orientation and Youth: A Primer for Principals, Educators and School Personnel

I've had many therapists and types of therapy over the years. Almost all of my therapists were gay. I made little progress, if any at all. Outside - and even inside group therapy - I was disliked and/or treated badly by almost all LGBT that I came into contact me. I developed severe CPTSD. So, I've stopped mixing with the community entirely.

For the last several months I've tried living an asexual lifestyle. (That is how I was raised, to be asexual and a parental caretaker.) But, I am more miserable than ever. Being celibate is awful. It is NOT an option. How awful that someone would even suggest it.

T's don't know what to make of me. I tell them that people hit on me and they ask, "doesn't that make you feel good?" and I flatly reply, "No, I hate it." I live in a major gay metropolis but I really dislike it here. There are few other native gays - everyone is a theater queen from somewhere else. As for myself, I could never get into theater much, if at all. I've met people through ads but those never work out. I've met people even more depressed than me through ads. Still, I've tried to make friends from some of them but to no avail. Due to chronic injuries, I've had to give up all of my sports hobbies. I just have a lousy body - bad feet and injury prone lanky arms and legs. I've been advised by MDs to not play sports anymore and have been undergoing physical therapy to try to repair my right elbow so that I can at least lift weights or bike ride or swim or play doubles tennis again.

Nothing seems to make me happy any more. I can't even hold a job. Socially, I am a total failure and have been my entire life. I get a lot of anxiety in social situations that has become worse and worse over the years. No one I ever had feelings for ever wanted to date or sleep with me. It was all a waste of time. I can't even seem to make friends. My only hope is to get out of this community. That's why I need to be straight. Women find me more attractive than men do. It's the only option left.

I am not certain what you are looking for here. What kind of responses do you want?
I am a lesbian who hates softball, am terrible at pool, I dislike Melissa Etheridge and don't care one whit about marriage. I am still a lesbian. I never found being a lesbian to be a big deal one way or the other for the most part. I am one and I go on with my life. The description you give of gay life is rather narrow. I do have gay friends who enjoy parties, leather and sex, but I also have gay friends who have never worn leather, been in a bath house, and who hate musicals. Stereotypes exist for a reason (I have short hair and like power tools and have a large selection of herbal teas) but they are not all encompassing and do not have to define any individual unless one wants to be defined in that way.
Frankly from your description - gayness or not is not really the issue in my opinion. I hope you figure out how to get some peace.

Hello Unguy,

I'm sorry you are feeling so much pain and discouragement. I have sent you a PM. Please read it and reply if you so desire.

Peaches

Being gay is just not for me. I cannot deal with it. Never could. It's not the life that I want.

I will be dropping therapy at my next session. It cannot help me. I cannot adjust. I do not want to be gay. That will never change.

You seem to have a very warped (stereotypical, homophobic) understanding of who gay people are and how gay people behave. While there are SOME gay people who no doubt fall into those categories, the vast majority do not. The vast majority of gay men are not running around having one night stands with the first other gay man they meet. Perhaps if all you do is hang out at gay bars at 2am, that is who you will run into-- but that is because the vast majority of gay men are at home, asleep, at 2am and not out for you to observe! Your descriptions of gay men are full of anger, distaste, and homophobia. Perhaps you are turning off other members of the gay community because it is evident to them that you have these hateful opinions about them. No one wants to be judged, hated, and shamed by someone they have just met--- another gay men no less who should be an ally. Your perception here is simply out of line with reality. I'm a lesbian and my best friend is a gay man and neither of us have experienced the kind of gay world you describe. I'm not a "stereotypical" lesbian-- and, quite frankly, most are not. My best friend met his current partner on a gaming website and I met mine on a dating website. What do we enjoy doing together? Going out to dinner, listening to live music, shopping, and spending time with friends and colleagues. We both have PhDs, we do not have one night stands, and we do not enjoy bars. That's why we went online-- because it's hard to identify gay people by sight-- so dating online makes identifying potential partners with similar interests much easier! The vast majority of people do not want to randomly hookup within five minutes of meeting-- that simply isn't the case. If you can channel down the self-hatred and homophobia, and approach meeting new people with an open mind and a positive attitude, you might be really surprised by the lovely people you will meet. Your problem seems to have so little to do with being gay, and so much to do with self-hatred, homophobia, and a negative attitude. The venom and hostility WILL turn people off--not because you are gay but because you seem to dislike others and yourself. People want to be around others who make them feel good.

It wasn't awful of me to suggest that - I gave the suggestion based on the fact that you say you are gay and find the idea of gay sex unappealing. If you find sex unappealing then why have sex? It was a logical suggestion.

I agree with others who are suggesting that it likely isn't your sexual orientation that is causing your problems: you have self-esteem issues and a negative perception of others. I understand the hopelessness that is depression, but there are likely other reasons why the people you meet have not liked you as opposed to anything to do with your homosexuality.

Therapy is not useful for everyone. Quitting is, in my opinion, perfectly reasonable if it is not doing for you what you want it to do.

It seems like you don't like being "hit on" at all. Does it make you feel better when women are attracted to you? Maybe you experienced some sort of past tramua with men or about men, so you feel safer with women?

I'm straight. But due to my past, I do not trust men. I don't even like it when men in my family touch me even though I know I'm 100% safe with them. This made dating extremely difficult for me. My friends in high school who were gay used to tease me that I should have been gay. I have thought about being gay. I feel safest with women and I do find them physically attractive, but there is no sexual attraction there. I am who I am.

I have a step-aunt who is a lesbian. She experienced a lot of csa and sa from men. From what my family explained to me, she choose to be gay. Now, I'm not sure I agree with "choose". Maybe she is bi and choose to stick with women? Idk. But my point is that she experienced trauma with men and really didn't want anything to do with men anymore. My grandpa was one of the only men she trusted in her life.

This completely describes depression and low self-esteem. Maybe you're using your sexual orientation as an explanation for your depression?

It just seems like there's either something deeper that is making you hate your sexual orientation or you just have focused on labeling that as the core issue.

And as others have said, the way you described the homosexual lifestyle is actually not what I have seen to be the norm. There are two gay couples who live on my street. Both couples have day-time jobs, they don't party, they are family oriented people. One couple has a daughter. The other couple has been together for 8+ years (they lived in the complex before we moved there). I have had many gay friends, and none are like what you have described.

If the majority of the gay community where you live is how you describe, then maybe you might want to move. Maybe it's the lifestyle of the community/city as a whole. Maybe try out a different community/city. I know downtown San Diego is more of a party town. But north county San Diego is not.

And as others have suggested, you might want to try dating online. Ads, to me, seem kinda sketchy. And if you don't like the bar scene, don't go to bars. It's best to meet potential dates either online or in a setting you enjoy...for both straight and gay.

I find it so tragically sad that you were so deeply wounded over your sexual orientation early on - most likely by the very people who were supposed to love, nurture and accept you exactly as you are - and that you have now internalized that hatred to the point of no return ... It's heartbreaking, and yet I understand how difficult it can be, and that not everyone can heal from nor overcome these deeply imbedded wounds.

I would have to describe myself as a survivor of reparative therapy of sorts. As a child, I distinctly recall my mom telling me that she was intentionally hard on me in order to "toughen me up." She was anti-sexual and told me that sex and love were not necessary. (She deemed taking care of her the purpose of my life.) Consequently, I take it as an insult when others suggest that celibacy is an acceptable lifestyle. I have been celibate most of my life and am miserable. People who suggest it have no clue as to what misery they are supporting. Of course, celibacy was also necessary for a while as a gay man during the AIDS crisis. Despite all of the safe sex warnings and education, there is still a lot of unsafe sex going on in the community.

I was forced to go to a religious all boy high school to also help toughen me up. It was a terrible 4 years and drove me further into the closet. Both of my parents were homophobes as were my teachers. I have never recovered.

Also, I am a person of a certain generation - when I came out it was pre-AIDS and free love ruled. If you were like me and wanted a relationship, you were laughed out of the bar. Therapists encouraged me to sleep around. When I go out to meet someone who is my age and single, I still come across this mentality. I really don't like to date younger because I had several younger siblings - all brothers - and don't want to play the older brother role anymore. It seems that I naturally do. Because I had such a cold, unaccepting mother and only brothers, I do not understand women well.

With such a skewered background, it's no wonder that I have problems. Sadly, therapy does not seem to be able to help. One T remarked that for someone with my past, I am remarkably functional. Having had parents who did not like me and treated me badly or neglected me, it's no wonder that I am a mess and have poor social skills. I don't seem to understand social interactions well at all and my social instincts I cannot rely upon because they are very bad.

The last few years, everything fell apart. I accepted a position working for a lesbian who turned out to hate men. She treated me badly even though I worked very hard and, after firing me, gave negative references so that no one would hire me. She was a sociopath. My next two jobs were working for a sociopaths also. I had a succession of bad T's who were more committed to their modalities than their patients. I made no progress.; my depression and lack of self confidence grew deeper. I am now more damaged than ever.

My current T is very young. He is not familiar with my generation even though he is gay. It is cookie-cutter therapy. It does not address the damage caused by my parents and schooling. That damage runs very deep.

Please do not suggest religion as a treatment for my depression or a cure for my homosexuality. After 12 years of religious schooling, I have finally put all the BS in the bible behind me. That book has ruined more peoples' lives.

I guess that I am an extreme case. I have made a lot of effort - all with very poor results. I am now almost 60 years old. I guess it's clear that nothing will help me at this point. People in the community are intentionally rude to me because I never smile and I don't date and have never had a relationship. I don't tell them about my past. All T's seem optimistic that regardless of what happened in the past that some improvement can always be made. That's not true.

I NEVER would suggest religion as a treatment for your depression. My link, if you read it, speaks against that kind of treatment. That is why I posted it after another poster seemed to be suggesting such treatment. (And I am Christian BTW but not of the fundamentalist bent).

You mentioned your current T is quite young. Have you considered going back to an therapist more intuned to your (our) generation? I completely understand how a young therapist would really not "get" those of us with a few more years on us. You do sound really depressed right now, for whatever the reason. I hope if you consider continuing in therapy, which I realize right now you are not, you can find a therapist who can understand you better and the damage that was done to you at such a young age by those who treated you so poorly.

I merely quoted you in a prior post because it related to my mother's self-designed reparative therapy for me by always being mean to toughen me up and my dad's faith based reparative therapy by forcing me to go to an all-boys religious high school. In short, I meant to say that my problems may be a result of reparative therapy which your post clearly did not support. You are correct that someone wrote to me suggesting Christian therapy to cure my homosexuality. As I am now an atheist, I can assure you that I will not take that path.

I have no desire to try to fit into the gay community any longer and want no part of it. My problems with being gay are very deep and therapy cannot overcome them. I wish there was a cure but there isn't. The rest of my life, for as long as I live, will be a waste of time.

So what are you looking for by posting here? I am just unclear and don't know what sorts of things you might find useful- a place to vent, suggestions, advice, agreement that quitting is good, talking you out of it, other things?

An invitation to the auto show? Your city or mine?

I am desperate for help. I keep making the same mistake believing therapy can help but it doesn't. I guess that pattern will have to end. I've also tried religion but that didn't help since I did not find it to be true.

Frankly, I am considering joining the Peace Corps so that the rest of my life is meaningful. It will also take me away from all this mess.

I LOVE AUTO SHOWS! Happy New Year!!

Breaking patterns is definitely a way to change. Maybe apply it to more areas of your life besides attending therapy and wishing you weren't gay?

I know where I do not fit in. I know what I do and do not enjoy. No further efforts will be made towards the gay community. Forty years of trying have been fruitless. It's just not for me.

I never said to join the particular gay community that you don't like.

If you know what you enjoy, then focus on that.

A heterosexual who knows more about the homosexual experience than I do? I don't think so. Being gay is an awful life. I would not wish it upon anyone. There is no part of the gay community that I want to be a part of. I need a cure and there isn't one. I need a cure. All other options have been tried.

Actually, I haven't been to a gay bar or any gay venue in years. As soon as I walk in, I feel sad in those places. I don't relate to any of the people. They are smiling and drinking and I don't understand what there is to be happy about. As an epileptic, I cannot drink alcohol and avoid light shows of all kinds.

Most recently, I tried to explore spirituality but did not make friends in churches with LGBT members. In one church, no one would even speak with me and that was in the LGBT meetings. In the other, I was hit on by people who I did not find attractive and whose behavior was very pushy. I did not appreciate the pressure; they were just seeking sex. I was struggling with religion anyway. The more I relearned it, the more I found it impossible to believe. So, I gave up religion after trying several different ones and several churches of the faith in which I was raised. Praying didn't help. I did not feel loved by god. I was not getting my needs met.

The friends I was able to make in the community were always nerdy. I guess I am too. But, I was not attracted to the nerds and only wanted friendships and those never lasted.

I tried a 12-step program for people who had trouble with interpersonal relationships. After a while, I found that a lot of people were playing around sexually with each other. No one ever expressed interest in me. I attended weekly for over a year. Several friends I had made gave up program and turned to fundamentalist Christianity. I hear that at least one is now married. I am too spiritually damaged to accept religion and did not follow their path. The rest of the members exiled me after I complained about one of the members touching me inappropriately several times on the street. They did not find anything wrong with this behavior.

My current T is encouraging me to go to bars, especially in the bear community. I've researched some of their websites but several are much too hardcore for me. And, again, I don't drink and feel like I'm missing the party in bars.

Because of blood sugar issues, I get a lot of urinary tract infections from oral sex and avoid **** sex because I get yeast infections. It seems my body is just not able to handle gay sex. I've been abstaining for years. I'm not good at it and don't enjoy it anyway. Emotionally, I do not like one-night stands and dislike sleeping with people who I don't know. People in the community find this weird. I recently met someone from a dating site who lectured me that I had to sleep with people when meeting them because that is how gay men bond with each other. I refused to sleep with him on the first date and never heard from him again. I amended my listing after that meeting to indicate that I wanted friends and was not looking for immediate sex. No one has responded.

I cannot say that I haven't tried. Being gay just makes me sad.

Hey, unguy. I'm a woman, but I know a few gay men and from what I've seen and what they've said, you're not wrong. The gay community can be very pushy and sexually predatory. To be honest though, so can the straight community if you're a female. Can I suggest that you approach your sexuality as a gay male in the same way an attractive straight woman has to approach relationships: with caution and with firm boundaries.

If you don't want to go to bars, don't go to bars. If your therapist says you should, tell your therapist to go with you. (That would be one heck of a therapy session!)

I think your experience of being lonely and frustrated is echoed in many sexual paradigms. There are many, many straight men unable to find female partners for instance, and many of them probably think it would be easier if they were gay because if they were gay then at least they could easily have sex.

Being a straight man is not easy. Women are extremely picky both out of necessity and as a result of wide mate selection. It is more socially acceptable than being gay, but I tell you now, a single man of a certain age who doesn't have a mate and who isn't George Clooney is regarded with almost as much suspicion as a gay male might be.

Long story short, you have to follow what you love and find the people you like and leave the sex and the gay community stuff for other people. You keep harping on the 'gay community' issue as if it is mandatory. It's not. You can run screaming from rainbow flags for the rest of your life if you like. You can abstain from gay sex if you like.

A lot of your problem seems to arise from focusing on optional things as if they were mandatory. It's like you're in a cage, but the door is open, but you're facing the back of it and shaking the bars. Just turn around and walk out. Sex is optional. Gay community participation is optional. Everything is optional.