[lauren_helene]

I needed to inform him of my medicine increase and then added a few comments about insurance and my getting better while increasing my dosage with my p-doc.

Hopefully we can chat about this more next session because if my insurance is making decisions for me and us then I have a huge issue with that.

He's probably like 'oh great here we go again"...giggle. He's used to me by now though. I didn't want to email or call. Emails are not the best way to reach him and he's too busy for calls really. So, fax it was!

I did get a confirmation that they received it so we'll see what happens...

Thank God my T doesn't make use of email or fax. I always want to talk with him, but I hate calling. With me as a client, I'd probably end up blowing up his computer and fax machine from overuse.

I'm glad you that did that, Almeda. Hopefully it will open the door a little so that you can talk with him more openly next session about some of the inconsistencies and such.

[lauren_helene]

Thanks Pink! I was wondering if he might call but I did say we could talk about it at the next session. Believe me, I don't want to stop going or stop seeing him.

I just need to learn to communicate better when I am there and get clarification. Perhaps we both do. I feel like we are not on the same page like we used to be.

[(JD)]

I don't think he would call since you did say it was a topic for the next session. I think faxing this information was probably ok, as it gave them office time to check your insurance and see if they can work around the issue somehow. Good wishes on this!

I'm glad you are still looking for answers to this. You deserve to know what's going on. Therapists have a responsibility to be honest like we do. I hope you get to the bottom of it and get your answers.

have you asked hm about calling? i never had a T i could call until the last one and that was so nice to know she was there if i needed her. this new T has the same set up: an answering machine and the recording says that if it is a life-threatening emergency to hang up and dial 911 of course; and that you can leave a message and she will call back; and that if it is an emergency you can call her cell. So I asked her yesterday to define emergency for me, because when I'm in a frantic episode I don't think I can do that. Basically she just said she leaves that up to the client and that if it is something that can wait till next session then we'll talk about it then and if a client calls too much or whatever that she would talk about that with them too. All said in her gentle, kind, reassuring way. .. So anyway, I wondered if you had asked about calling and when it would be ok. Sometimes we just need to get something out into the open or be heard and that can be a way to do it. I can see where it would not be something to make a habit of, since openness and emotional honesty are for the therapy session, but hey we aren't perfect are we. Wouldn't be there if we were. We're learning.

Let us know how it goes. Get all your questions and concerns ready for next session. Don't hold back, state/ ask them all.

ECHOES

[lauren_helene]

Well, I have emailed and called in the past. I think twice we've talked on the phone but it is between clients so I feel like I'm putting him on the spot. I didn't want to do that again.

I was talking to my husband last night and he thinks maybe focusing on insurance like I did in the letter might upset him like I'm accusing him of not doing right by me.

Do you all think it would come off this way? He knows that I don't blame him for anything. This attachment was created my me apparently and it is up to me to get myself out of it so that he and I can advance therapeutically. I feel like we're stuck in this cycle which is why he probably suggested 2x per week in the first place. Maybe he changed his mind thinking that would make me more dependent?

I loved that he cared enough to suggest it though and taking it away so quickly had a bad reaction on me.

I'm trying to really analyze myself. I've been crying off and on because I feel like he's rejecting me but that just can't be. We've discussed it before and he says he would never do that.

What does need to happen? I need to get this relationship back therapy. So, maybe he can help me figure out how to do that...

I will ask all of the questions I want to this time...thanks girls

(( you go girl ))

Sweetie, the relationship is therapy. You are doing just fine. Keep talking!

[sunrise]

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This attachment was created my me apparently and it is up to me to get myself out of it so that he and I can advance therapeutically.

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almedafan, the attachment is at the heart of the therapy. Just allow yourself to "go with it." You've said things before that suggested your T was unwilling to engage in the transference. Is it your T telling you that you can't move forward in therapy if you are attached to him? Or is that your idea? I think this is a key issue that you need to discuss with your T. I am firmly attached to my T, and we are making great progress in therapy. I hope you can get to the heart of this.

((((almedafan))))

[lauren_helene]

You've said things before that suggested your T was unwilling to engage in the transference. Is it your T telling you that you can't move forward in therapy if you are attached to him? Or is that your idea? I think this is a key issue that you need to discuss with your T. I am firmly attached to my T, and we are making great progress in therapy. I hope you can get to the heart of this.

((((almedafan))))

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Hi Sunrise, I guess that is what I don't know. What are we supposed to be discussing about my attachment? We are not discussing much. We did a little months ago but it's not a focus of our sessions. I mentioned last session that I apparently created this attachment and he didn't say that I wasn't right.

He just said he wants to foster a healthy dependency and not an unhealthy one. When I asked if he thought my dependency was unhealthy he said no but didn't really elaborate.

I'm nervous now to say much more but I guess I need to at least talk about this cycle I'm in. It is making my anxiety worse not better.

When I read what you gals talk to your T's about, I think maybe he's either afraid to address it with me because I'm so sensitive about him rejecting me or he isn't sure what to do about it. But that can't be right? If this is the whole point of therapy then I'm confused...even more...

I'm not sure where to go but you're right. I need to address this better next week. It's hard once I get there. I feel silly bringing it up and it's hard for me to talk about feelings that are one-sided. I wish he would take the active role with it. I don't know what to do about it anymore.

The thought of going somewhere else and not seeing him again is painful. He is the only one that I have ever opened up to period. It took me over 30 years to do this and he's the right one for me. Lately though, something isn't right with me and either I'm not doing something or he's not...

Thanks for the support. It means a lot

[sunrise]

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almeda24fan said:
What are we supposed to be discussing about my attachment?

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Well, I think it would be different for each person. You can read in our threads here how different people talk about their attachments with their T's. For me, my attachment to T is very manageable now, but earlier in our relationship, it tended to dominate my thinking. It's almost like there was an "infatuation" phase and that has now settled into a good working relationship between me and this guy I trust, think VERY highly of, and whose advice I value tremendously. During that earlier phase, I would talk to T about the dreams I had about him, as this was easier for me than directly talking about it. But the dreams allowed us to get at the issue, and explore how I viewed and felt about our relationship. I remember later realizing some major fears of abandonment from T were due to an experience in my past, and we dealt with that quite directly. It helped explain a lot for T about me and my "demands" that he self disclose a lot or I wasn't going to play ball. Cleared up a lot for us. Well, those are just a couple of examples from my therapy, and everyone has their own.

I think it would be helpful to you if you can talk about this with your T, such as what is a healthy and an unhealthy attachment?

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I think maybe he's either afraid to address it with me because I'm so sensitive about him rejecting me or he isn't sure what to do about it

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Maybe he is just uncomfortable with a client being attached so strongly. Some T's do not like the whole transference thing at all and are reluctant to use it. Maybe he is one. It would be good to know. And if he won't deal with it, then at least you know where you stand and can try to deal with the attachment on your own (journaling, etc.) without continuing to expect him to be open to discussing this topic. But it would be so good to know where he stands on this instead of guessing, wouldn't it?

almedafan, I'm going to suggest a book that has been mentioned in this forum before:
In Session: the Bond Between Women and their Therapists by Deborah Lott. This book describes the client-to-T attachment and may help you understand your own situation better. After you read it, maybe you could discuss it with your T.

Good luck. ((((hugs))))

[lauren_helene]

You bring up excellent points for me to talk with him about. Interestingly, I did read that book you suggested and in fact, have told my T that I was going to give it to him. I just haven't done it yet...

I think he was fine with the attachment when I first told him last September but slowly over time it has gotten stronger not weaker. That probably is making him uncomfortable. This is what I sense when I am trying to be more honest about what I'm feeling between sessions.

Mostly what he has said about transference is 'it's not about him', the therapeutic sessions are false environments and we only see the nice, funny, empathetic side of our T's...so goes the fantasy creating I guess. I genuinely like and respect him though and putting a label on that seems dismissive of our feelings doesn't it? I mean we are adults, we know how we like, respect, don't like, feel comfortable with, appreciate etc...

I know that what is happening now has happened in my personal life with other men. The difference is the uniqueness of this relationship and if we can get over the cycle we are in, I'll bet this will all be more profound for me in terms of changing this behavior...

You all and your threads are helping me more every day. Believe me, I'd like this cycle to slow up for me so we can start accomplishing things again.

[sunrise]

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Believe me, I'd like this cycle to slow up for me so we can start accomplishing things again.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Are you sure your attachment stands in the way of your accomplishing things? Again, I wonder is this something T told you or your own idea? I don't think a strong attachment necessarily prevents someone from making progress; exploring it could help a person move forward and build the relationship into one that is even stronger and allows them to share more readily with T. In my own case, I see that I spent several months with T building our relationship, and I didn't even realize it. When later I bemoaned the fact that I "wasted" so much time when I should have been more goal directed, T told me it had not been time wasted, but extremely valuable for us, and that we couldn't have gotten to where we are now without that period.

That will be interesting if you share the In Session book with your T. That book addresses the idea of whether transference is always about someone else, or whether those feelings can actually be about the T. I don't think transference is always necessarily synonymous with attachment. I think it's possible to be strongly attached without having transference all the time. I have bonded with my T because he is so nice, so warm, so empathetic, so attuned, etc. He "gets" me. I appreciate all of that, and it makes me really like the guy, but it's not necessarily transference, although I have that sometimes too.

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the therapeutic sessions are false environments and we only see the nice, funny, empathetic side of our T's...so goes the fantasy creating I guess

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I think therapist self disclosure can help us see that they are not perfect. My T does not believe there is anything "false" about our relationship. He says we have connected and what we have is "real" and healthy. I know I sometimes feel like it is not truly "real," and it helps me that T thinks it is. It would be difficult for me to take if T told me how "false" it was. ((((hugs))))

[lauren_helene]

No he didn't say my attachment is preventing me from moving forward. It is me who thinks that. Although, he did recognize that our therapeutic relationship is causing me anxiety. That's when he said do you want to come twice a week.

But we all know how that changed the following week. I was kind of hurt when he referred to therapy as a 'false environment'. He meant all therapy relationships but it still felt like he meant ours. One session though he did comment on how we connect emotionally.

I guess that is the issue, there is a bit of inconsistency...I'm glad that you can take the attitude you have about therapy. This is where I want to be...maybe in time...

Do you know what theoretical orientation your therapist is? I'm asking that because some theoretical orientations focus on transference while others do not. It might be the case that your therapist is of such a theoretical orientation that he doesn't think that transference is necessary or useful unless it is a mildly positive one that facilitates trust and willingness to do the theraputic work. If you don't know what orientation he is then it could be helpful for you to ask him.

> He just said he wants to foster a healthy dependency and not an unhealthy one. When I asked if he thought my dependency was unhealthy he said no but didn't really elaborate.

That comment seems very much in synch with the notion that he doesn't think that intense transference (transference neurosis) is necessary or helpful. Hence it is something that he is attempting to avoid / prevent.

It is one thing to attempt to prevent it from happening and quite another to avoid it / ignore it once it has occurred, however.

> I think he was fine with the attachment when I first told him last September but slowly over time it has gotten stronger not weaker. That probably is making him uncomfortable. This is what I sense when I am trying to be more honest about what I'm feeling between sessions.

Right. That is a shame. Kohut talks about the detrimental effect of therapists not being able to (or willing to) 'hold' the transference feelings...

> Mostly what he has said about transference is 'it's not about him', the therapeutic sessions are false environments and we only see the nice, funny, empathetic side of our T's...so goes the fantasy creating I guess.

Sounds to me that he doesn't know very much about intense transference / doesn't deal with it often. While that might well be true it really doesn't affect your feelings.

What he seems to need to know is that... It is precisely because you feelings originate from the past that he doesn't need to be concerned about your feelings for him. In fact your feelings (and your willingness to share them with him) provide a really useful way in to finding out a lot of your past hurts and the like. They can be used as a platform.

I'd ask him what he knows about transference... And... I'd maybe try and arrange some reading for him ;-) But then I tend to do that :-)

Almeda, how comfortable are you in talking with your T about your relationship with him? (attachment, rejection, transference, etc.) I only ask this because at one point, I kept insisting that my T was uncomfortable or did not want to talk about my self-injury. In actuality, he was completely comfortable talking about it-- I was projecting my own discomfort about the topic onto him. Please don't think I'm pinning you for the lack of discussion about transference and such-- it's just a thought. In my situation, my T didn't actually send signals that would have made me believe he was uncomfortable talking about SI-- it was something I created. Or I would "misread" his signals as discomfort. I often do this with frustration as well. I insist to him that he is frustrated with me, when I'm really getting fed up with myself.

Has your T actually come out and said that transference isn't his thing? Have you asked him any direct questions regarding his stance on discussing your relationship?

I hope you are doing well, Almeda.

almeda24fan,

There is a false environment quality to therapy, I think, It's that it is unique, a place where you talk about thoughts with someone that you wouldn't normally talk about in a relationhip outside of therapy. Maybe that is all he meant. That doesn't mean the relationship with the therapist is false, just unique and atypical of relationhips outside of therapy for the most part.

Anyway that's just my take.

[lauren_helene]

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alexandra_k said:
Do you know what theoretical orientation your therapist is?

Yes his orientation is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. We started out with that over a year ago but we got side tracked for a long time dealing with my other issues. I have since started journaling again and he gave me a presentation he put together which is great.

I'm asking that because some theoretical orientations focus on transference while others do not.

It is one thing to attempt to prevent it from happening and quite another to avoid it / ignore it once it has occurred, however.

That is kind of how I feel. Like he's avoiding it. Although, Pinksoil might be on to something with her post too. I'm uncomfortable talking about it. I don't which one of us started that...maybe it was me....

Sounds to me that he doesn't know very much about intense transference / doesn't deal with it often. While that might well be true it really doesn't affect your feelings.

Yeah, he might not. Somehow I need to ask him this...can I take one of you girls with me? Ha!

What he seems to need to know is that... It is precisely because you feelings originate from the past that he doesn't need to be concerned about your feelings for him. In fact your feelings (and your willingness to share them with him) provide a really useful way in to finding out a lot of your past hurts and the like. They can be used as a platform.

We've talked about my unmet needs from my dad that still occur to this day. I just wish we could share more about what is happening in this current relationship...

[lauren_helene]

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pinksoil said:
Almeda, how comfortable are you in talking with your T about your relationship with him? (attachment, rejection, transference, etc.) I only ask this because at one point, I kept insisting that my T was uncomfortable or did not want to talk about my self-injury. In actuality, he was completely comfortable talking about it-- I was projecting my own discomfort about the topic onto him. Please don't think I'm pinning you for the lack of discussion about transference and such-- it's just a thought. In my situation, my T didn't actually send signals that would have made me believe he was uncomfortable talking about SI-- it was something I created. Or I would "misread" his signals as discomfort. I often do this with frustration as well. I insist to him that he is frustrated with me, when I'm really getting fed up with myself.

Has your T actually come out and said that transference isn't his thing? Have you asked him any direct questions regarding his stance on discussing your relationship?

I hope you are doing well, Almeda.

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You could be right Pink. I'm not that comfortable talking about it. When I first told him he did say thank you for trusting me with your feelings but then things went bad for awhile when my husband wanted me to quit therapy around this time. He did not understand my feelings for my T and was afraid of it back then. So, I quit for a month and my depression got out of control.

I called my T's office to get a referral, he called me back and I told him my husband wanted me to switch. I realized though that wasn't the right thing to do and my T was instrumental in getting me to return by pointing out how I don't relate to men right. I'm so glad that I did go back and my husband now FINALLY gets it. I've showed my husband so many articles regarding this and he just didn't understand the concept.

He's no longer upset about the feelings I have for my T. We've talked about it a lot recently and he's glad I have him. My husband has learned to be very careful now when I ask him for advice because of what happened before.

I know that I see signals that aren't really there with most people. My T has said I get it wrong all the time with him so he pointed out that my husband might not be as unsupportive as I think....which turned out to be true!

Wednesday is the next session. I'm nervous already. I need to lay all this out there.