How well does your T understand you?

I am so torn and sad. I think that my therapist doesn't understand me. And, honestly, I don't understand myself all that well (I was sort of hoping that therapy would help with that), so it doesn't feel like an easy thing to fix.

Last week I wrote here about "therapist expectations". And, I managed to bring it up. And... before he would answer, he told me that he didn't think it was "helpful" for me to talk about "this" (pointing to me and him, so I assume he meant the therapeutic relationship, or maybe what happens in therapy?). He thinks that it takes focus away from what's happening in my "real life", which frankly, is not much (it's a very boring life!).

Sigh. He's said this before. And, it feels crazy to me. It seems to me that a big part of therapy, at least for me, is being able to openly talk about what's happening in therapy. It feels - saner - to be able to do that. Versus, me just guessing, or worrying, or misinterpreting things. It seems like talking about this stuff is exactly what I need to be doing. Last time it came up, I can't remember what we're talking about, but I made a comment like... "It seems like *this* - this negotiating the relationship - is maybe what I need" - and he agreed, but re-framed it as establishing safety.

The second part of this to me is... he's not really seeing why I needed to ask. He's more concerned that I'm "not talking about real life" - when I think he should be paying attention to what's going on, which is, when I'm coping badly or having negative symptoms - I'm not coming in and talking about them, but more than that, I genuinely don't understand whether I can and should. You know what I mean? The other post talked a lot more about it, but I'd think, if I were a T, I'd WANT to talk about that, rather than saying, "well, it's not helpful to talk about this".

I mean, if you were a therapist, wouldn't you want to know that your client was feeling so uncertain about what they're supposed to do in/with therapy, that even though they were coping badly they didn't understand whether or not that was OK/expected to talk about?

Then, we began talking about what goals he has for me, which were basically"
- increase my happiness
- decrease my anxiety
- increase my connections in the world.

And, while all that sounds lovely - it also sounds very generic. Couldn't we give those goals to just about anyone in therapy? It felt like, after six months, he really doesn't know me that well

I am really torn. There are things he does well, and I believe that he wants to be helpful. So far, he's the only T I've seen who has been able to help keep me grounded and pull me back from drifting off into dissociative states, which feels huge. I've also told him more about my stuff then any other T.

And right now, I just feel like - what's the point?

Do you feel understood in therapy? Do you feel like your T fundamentally gets you? I don't know, just feeling lost and sad over all this... next session on Monday, and I'm very much not wanting to go back

I do feel that my therapist gets me, but even then, she is still learning. My therapy is not about our relationship, though. I mean, having a good fit and trust is very important, but I'm not there to work out relationship issues through her. I'm in therapy because of things in my life, right now, that are causing me problems and link directly back to the past. Building trust with her helps get to those other things, but that's as far as it goes in terms of "us."

I read your previous post. I wonder if you talked about the problems that you are currently having, outside of your relationship to him (the SI), you might find more benefit to therapy. He doesn't sound like the type who uses your relationship with him to deal with deeper issues, so choosing a therapist who does might also be another option.

I feel like my therapist knows me very well. But I would like to think that if I wanted to discuss our therapeutic relationship that he would be open to that. I find it odd that your therapist would have a problem with any issue that you might want to discuss. I haven't run across any taboo subjects in my therapy, including some of the useless nonsense I sometimes come up with.

I've been with T a little over a month but yes, so far I feel T understands me. My T has mentioned several times, including when I initially called to make the appointment, how important the therapeutic relationship is.

As mentioned above, perhaps you should consider choosing a different T who uses a different approach because it doesn't sound like that this T is the "right" T for you.

The first one I see does not understand me at all. Nada.
The second one, until this week, did better at it.

Could you go try a couple of other ones just to see -not terminate with the one you are seeing now but try out a couple of others to see if their style fits you better?

My second T is much better at understanding me than my first T was. Second T ROCKS at this. Also, I am free to talk about any aspect of our therapy relationship. ... if I feel I adore him the same way that i loved Mr. Rogers as a kid.... If I feel like he wants me to terminate. . If I hate him for knowing things about me... if I feel like he is bored. All of it. Any of it. Any time I want.

Switching is hard but it can pay off in the end. Although since he has other qualities, I would try bring up this topic to see what his response was.

My T gets me very well and is cool talking about the therapy relationship when I need to.

I go back and forth as to whether or not him getting me is a good thing. I have a very messed up view of relationships and so I regularly try to sabotage them in a very convoluted way.

I feel like my t genuinely "gets" me, yes. She knows me better than anyone else in my life. And I do feel like she is part of my life, at least for while she's my t. We talk about our therapeutic relationship on a regular basis, and it's always me that starts that particular conversation. I don't know honestly why I need to talk about it every now & then but I do. This last time we talked about it, I do know why though, was because I was concerned about her health, because she's had a cough for quite awhile (that turned out to be allergies) and she said herself "I'll be part of your life for awhile yet" during that conversation. That made me feel very held. I said to her a long time ago that "therapy's not real life" and she looked a bit hurt by that statement and asked me "what do you mean it's not real life? Of course it is." or something like that. I wrote an essay shortly after that titled "Why Therapy is not Real Life" and the funny thing about it was, that by the end of the essay, I had disproved what I had set out to prove. So that's why I believe that yes she is a part of my life, at least for now. I think I got kinda off topic here. Sorry, I tend to ramble.

Thanks. It's amazing to me that so many people seem to be able to find therapists that DO understand them and get their stuff. I guess I'm starting to fall back into the feeling that therapy is just not going to be a useful avenue of healing for me... maybe... though I'm not sure what else to try.

LicketySplit - I think I know what you mean, and I'd agree that my therapy isn't *about* the relationship. But, it still seems like.. it's an important aspect/container/something (?). Especially for me, the trust part is important - and I think part of that is being able to ask questions about expectations, or how things are perceived, or whatnot.

That's a good point about talking about the SI/etc with him. But, it's so hard. I try, but that was the point of the other post (and of me asking him about expectations) - it's *not* clear to me what's ok, what's ok to talk about or bring in or expect or whatever. And, it's hard, because the SI isn't an every day, or every week thing... and sometimes when it happens, I don't remember why The last time (~3 weeks ago?) - I remember wanting to for several days, but not *why*. I feel very *undefined* and fuzzy, and I feel like that makes it really hard to go into therapy and talk about stuff... "stuff" just isn't clear to me.

Gaylegg - thanks. It was weird, I don't think it's totally taboo... but it's the second time that he's told me that HE doesn't think it's helpful. Maybe I need to tell him to just stop saying that, because clearly I think it's helpful, or I wouldn't keep doing it.

Seeking Peace - wow! That's great that you're already feeling understood after only a month! Thanks. Maybe, I should... I'm really torn though, because I've tried a ton of other Ts in the past, and it really wasn't any better. So I'm thinking it's something that I'm bringing with me. They can't ALL be THAT bad, can they?!? And, as I said, he's sort of actually been the best of the group in terms of helping me stay grounded, and not being defensive when I bring up stuff...

StopDog - thanks, that's a good idea. Maybe... but I've seen so many already, I feel like I'm running out of therapists in my area! And, it's really hard for me to tell from one visit... at least so far. I don't know, it seems doubtful to me that something magical is going to happen in one hour that will let me absolutely know a T is perfect for me though I wish it would!

Pbutton - Oh, your second T sounds wonderful! You're right, it's really hard because he has some great qualities that I haven't found in other therapists at all, so it's really just tearing me apart trying to figure out whether it's worth staying, whether he'll actually be helpful in the end, or whether I just need to get out and re-stabilize myself.

NowhereUSA - awww... that's great that your T understands you, though I get how sometimes it may not feel great! Still, it's got to be helpful, doesn't it? It's hard for me to imagine how a T can help if they don't understand... you know what I mean? Without the understanding, isn't it just generic advice and shooting in the dark?

Artemis-Within - no need to apologize, you painted a really beautiful picture of your relationship with your T! I'm a little jealous though! But thanks for sharing it!

I agree with you on that. I'm sorry if I sounded dismissive about that. It's just not something that's come up for me in my therapy, but if it did, I feel confident that my therapist would welcome the discussion. She's never discouraged me from talking about anything. I would want that for you.

You could take a break from one and try another for more than one appointment. And talk about how they see conversation about the therapy situation itself.
I would completely balk at/ be insanely pissed off at a therapist who told me that the therapist had goals for me. WTF is that about?

I'm sorry your session went like that.

My T doesn't get me 100%, but like you, I don't even get myself 100%. But no one does (if anyone does understand themselves 100%, please contact me...seriously...my T wants to meet you).

My T sometimes likes to deflect my issues with her. It's usually when I'm concerned about what she thinks or feels. She says that therapy is about ME not her. I know it's stupid, but I always respond that I might as well talk to the wall. This week she got clever. She said that then I wouldn't get to see emotions. So I told her I could always draw a happy face on the wall. This is like the 10th time I had to say that. So she hasn't yet learned that about me.

The problem with that topic btwn me and my T is that it's difficult to change who a person is. I'm the type of person who cares very deeply for anyone I allow into my life. For clarification, no I don't get attached to everyone in my life. The problem is that I spend so much time caring for others and not myself. So my T naturally wants me to worry about me and not her. It's not that she doesn't care or wants me to change who I am, but she wants me to learn how to balance this aspect better.

Does that make sense? Maybe that's what your T is trying to communicate with you?

The way my T helps with that is by providing lots and lots of reassurance that our relationship is okay. If I know that everything is okay btwn us and nothing has changed, I worry less about her and focus more on myself.

Maybe some reassurance about your relationship will help easy your concerns?

And another way to maybe help you process things is to ask your T to help you analyze why things have changed. Like what happened that caused your focus to shift from yourself to him? Is it because it's easier to focus on him than to start dealing with some of the other, more difficult things? He will probably be willing to go that route because it redirects the focus on you. And maybe there is even some truth to that? I know I start to worry about what my T thinks when I'm dealing with something difficult.

And it's interesting that you say your life is boring. So is mine! Mostly anyways. I stay at home a lot, clean house, use coping skills, go to doctors, and socialize with my dogs, fiance, mom, and step-dad. That's my life. Boring. Of course, I tend to have random drama that likes to pop up all at the same time (i.e. mom getting married, mouse in house, dog has cushings, etc.) Things that are not typical daily dramas.

But...your mind: thoughts, feelings, memories, etc...now you know that's not boring Especially for someone who works in the field of psychology. So maybe your T might also be trying to redirect the focus on you so he can get to know you better. And maybe he feels he's boring since he has to be more professional and keep most his thoughts and feelings to himself. Also, the SI is important to discuss...not boring.

I'm not trying to disregard your feelings. Just simply trying to offer up other perspectives. And as I write this, I'm reminding myself of similar different perspectives. But I do understand wanting to explore the relationship with your T. Mamy people find it beneficial. And it can be a great way to learn how to have other relationships.

Btw...your goals...that could definitely be applied to everyone. You probably had those goals when you first started therapy. You might want to discuss expanding on those goals and making smaller, more achievable goals.

I do suggest you go back and see your T. I don't know if things will get better, but I have found that I gain the most from the difficult times I have with my T (she now worries that I equate that good things only come with pain and suffering ). It tends to be true. We tend to grow the most when we struggle. So don't give up just yet. The option to quit seeing your T or therapy in general will always be there if you choose.

In my last session with my t, we spent most of the time talking about our relationship because of a small rupture that occurred and my desire to detach because of the hurt I was feeling. In our discussion, he told me that he believes healing comes only through the relationship and the connection that comes through it. For me, and my history, I believe that to be true. I know I have to learn to trust and feel safe in order to begin to look at my history. That said, I'm very lucky because my therapist gets me and is exceptionally gentle, empathetic, and accepting.

Thanks, I appreciate all the thoughts and hearing everyone's experiences. It's helpful. I'm a little wonky... between all this therapy stuff, trying to eat healthy today after lots of days filled with too much sugar, and dealing with mom on the phone...

Thanks LicketySplit, and no worries. I didn't think you were being dismissive at all... I'm just thinking out loud and trying to figure it out too.

Stopdog - Thanks! And, lol! Well, he didn't just offer up the goals out of nowhere. I asked him about his "expectations" (from my previous post), and he said he wasn't sure what I meant - that that could mean either what's OK in therapy (which is what I meant), or what his goals are. Since he had just alluded to goals, I asked him to talk to both points, because I was curious. I was just expecting better goals... you know, more personalized, things that actually showed he had a good understanding of what I'd been saying for the last 6 months. Not such broad, generic goals!

Thanks JustDesserts - your T sounds really lovely!

Thanks ScarletPimpernel! It's always interesting to hear about how you and your T manage things, since I feel like we share some traits . But, I think I'm feeling a little confused by the fact that... to me, asking about "expectations in therapy" isn't *really* a question about the relationship. It's not the same (I don't think?) as what you're saying, which is asking the T what they think about you, or asking for reassurance that the relationship is ok.

It's more like, I haven't had a successful therapy experience. I fundamentally am not getting therapy. And, maybe I'm getting some mixed messages, maybe that's why I'm feeling nervous? But stuff like the SI - I wrote about it, he told me to use a bucket of ice water instead - and that was it. There wasn't really any discussion of why it was happening, how often, or any feeling of openness... you know what I mean? There wasn't that feeling of, "hey, if you want to talk about this - I can handle it, and I will listen, even if you're not wanting to explicitly work on it." It was literally like, "OK, go do this instead." Maybe I'm misremembering, I was not really very grounded during that conversation... but as I said, I didn't know if he just assumes that if it happens, I'm going to come in and talk about it. Same thing for any other sort of bad indicators (I spent most of last weekend in bed, didn't mention that). I don't *get* how therapy is supposed to work, and that's not really personal to him, but since he's the therapist, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask "how does this work?" from time to time. So I can say, "OH! You DO want me to come in and report back on stuff like that, even if *today* I genuinely feel great?!"

I don't know, maybe I'm just way too overly analytical? Is this totally crazy?

"The way my T helps with that is by providing lots and lots of reassurance that our relationship is okay. If I know that everything is okay btwn us and nothing has changed, I worry less about her and focus more on myself."

This does make total sense to me... by the way. But, I'm not sure that I'm at the point where I'm worrying about the "relationship", because (right this second) I sort of feel like there is one. My T doesn't really seem real the other 167 hours of the week (or at least, a day or so after a session). Ugh, but I don't want to think about that, because then I feel really rotten, like that's an awful, hurtful thing to say.

"Like what happened that caused your focus to shift from yourself to him?"

But... do you think that's it, given what I wrote above? I don't feel like it's focused on him at all... I feel like I don't understand the rules of "therapy", and I'm trying to do the sane thing (ask for clarification) and getting told that the rule is, you shouldn't be asking questions like that. It feels really crazy!

"But...your mind: thoughts, feelings, memories, etc...now you know that's not boring "

Ha... well, thanks. I have no clue though. He wants me to talk more about day-to-day reality, but the truth is, day-to-day reality just doesn't have anything therapy-worthy in it. I work from home, rarely talk to anyone, and generally just go out for groceries. I try to fit in some exercise, get the dishes washed, and cook healthy food. I watch TV, play on the computer, and practice piano. And post here, of course. That's it. There's not a lot of opportunity for drama, which is good, but it's also just.... yup, boring.

And, I'm not trying to argue with you (I hope it doesn't come across that way!) but... if what I'm thinking is about, "omg, I don't get the expectations for therapy, I don't know if I should be talking about x, y, and z...." then I would think should be OK to come in and talk about?

(And in fairness, he did answer the question, he just prefaced it by telling me that he didn't think it was helpful to me, since it took me "further from reality").

He likes to use a cartoon of a parent telling their kid to eat their veggies, and saying something like, "you love vegetables!". Maybe that's what this is... I need to tell him that, even if he doesn't think it's helpful, *I* do - I wouldn't ask if I didn't think it was helpful, and he's just confusing things more by trying to tell me to not believe it's helpful

Thanks, I didn't feel like you were disregarding my feelings at all... just more to think about. I appreciate it! And, my next session is Monday afternoon, so definitely too late to cancel if I wanted to.

I am really sorry you feel this way. It does feel terrible. I felt like that woth my first t.

This t does understand me. Some times all too well!

Thanks Starry Night... I appreciate it. It feels crazy, like... I wish this guy were just uniformly bad, you know, so I could easily quit, as opposed to having some really good qualities, mixed with this kind of confusion.

To be honest... I was just trying to give you a positive perception? Maybe? Lol. I'm not in the right mind space right now. Sorry

Maybe this might be more helpful. If I had your T, I would sit there fighting for what I want. I would feel invalidated. It's my therapy and I should get a say. The T should also get a say, but that doesn't mean we agree. And I would keep coming back to the issue till it gets resolved. I'm very very stubborn. I stayed with a T for 7 months fighting her on her boundaries. I only stopped because my ex-Tfound out and allowed me to start seeing her again if I would leave the poor intern alone The intern was actually sad to see me go!

My only concern is that you disregard sound professional advice or lose a good therapeutic relationship because of a misunderstanding.

I'm struck by the fact that you said: 'his goals for me are....' Is he the one who decides the goals, and it kind of seems to imply that you need to change? My T says the only goal is to understand, it does not feel that it is about me changing at all. She kind of has the attitude - if you are sad you are sad, yes life is hard and brings sadness, she has said 'if you feel like doing nothing all day then do nothing all day'. (I handle life by keeping really really busy).

My T is psychodynamic and we often talk about our relationship.

I don't feel that my T understands me particularly. I think it is partly because her beliefs about life feel so off the wall to me, and she looks at things so completely differently. I don't think her talent is understanding how a client sees things, and I have kind of asked her to shut up and listen to me lately. I really really love her way of looking at life though and her approach to therapy.

Just wondering, is it really that your therapist doesn't get you? Or is it that he's not doing what you want, which upsets you?

He may very well understand you, and his understanding of you might be why he is trying to redirect your attention to the outside world and not allowing you to hyperfocus on the therapy. Seems to me a lot of people get 'therapy brain' and their lives become about therapy and not actually living. I can see why a therapist would want to nip that in the bud.

I kind of agree with SkyscraperMeow. My sense is that maybe he does get you but it all feels very frustrating and thwarting to you because he's not doing it how you think it should be done. It seems normal for people to spend most of their time trying to change their Ts and how their T's operate instead of allowing their T's to help them change. A lot of posters write about going through it.

You said he wants you to talk about your real life. You said it's a boring life. Like it's so boring, there's nothing to talk about. Then you said, That is your real life, the stuff he wants to talk about, and you're not coming in and talking about it and unless he's a complete dunderhead he knows your not coping. It shows on most of us. If you're coping badly and having negative symptoms out there in the other 6 days and 23 hours a week, that's the real life he wants you to talk about. Talking about your therapeutic relationship is taking the focus off learning how to cope better out there in your real life outside of session.

I think. Pretty sure. That's how I'd interpret it. Maybe you're more like sd and want a T who will do it your way. Which is your right. But first you have to find a T willing to do that. Your current T doesn't sound like that guy.

I didn't think my fave T understood me for a long time. He kept saying these really strange things that didn't apply to me, like saying he thought I was angry. I denied it in a gentle voice as sparks flew from my eye sockets. Turns out he saw me with X-ray vision and I didn't like what he was seeing. He seemed to like it just fine and accept it as fairly normal under the circumstances and he worked on helping me unconditionally accept myself and change what I could and accept what I couldn't. It took time for me to let my defenses down. I started out as an exceptionally well-defended person, cloaked in poise and good manners. Gak.

We never talked about our relationship. I didn't have to ask him about his expectations because he told me and said it was all right to disappoint his expectations. A lot of what he said seemed paradoxical and way out there in left field at first. After a while I figured out he knew what he was doing and Captain SnakeCharmer stopped trying to command Starship Recovery. I settled for being Navigator, deciding where we'd go and how long it would take to get there. It worked out fine.

Perhaps if therapists spent more time and effort into explaining what they were doing, clients would be more willing and be allowed to understand.

I'm not really hearing anything that your T is doing as "wrong" or incompetent. Could it be that you want him to spell out the rules of therapy as a way of you keeping control? If he sets the parameters, then you "know" how to engage. But that isn't a way to reveal your authentic self, and most Ts believe that's a fundamental goal and means of practice. Talking about the "boring" stuff tills the ground for the alliance to grow. It sounds like you are quite analytical and perhaps that's getting in the way of you engaging directly. The more the balance is shifted to the T to direct the process, the less emotional engagement there is. It's like having therapy about therapy before you've been an active participant in helping the T to know you. Or like having an interpreter in the room. I suspect he would be willing down the road to discuss the relationship more directly at the point it would serve your goals. But it sounds rather like putting the cart before the horse to me to engage much in that way at this point.

My experience is that whenever I felt not understood, it was because I was withholding in some way. It wasn't generally a pattern for me, so when it would crop up, it was very noticeable.

I agree with that statement. I was fortunate enough to have Ts who explained the process, how it worked, what they were doing and why before we started and along the way. No guessing games. Questions were welcomed. Nothing happened without my permission. I knew what I was signing up for and what I wasn't going to get. For a long time I thought that was standard procedure in therapy. I personally don't get the secret priesthood aura some Ts seem to like.

It seems to me resistance is a wise course if one feels anyone is trying to lead them without explanation or permission. It's therapy, not the army.

Yes, this. Very much this. Thanks Stopdog. Therapy feels like this big, mysterious blackbox... and it's frustrating and inefficient feeling to have to "guess" the rules.

Thanks everyone. I will muddle through this and figure something out.