[Abby]

How do I change? No therapist in the world can make me change. I have to make these changes I want. I feel as though I'm pretty much failing everyone these days but mostly I'm failing myself. There is something very seriously wrong with my head. I strive to attain so much and yet simultaneously destroy much of it. I'm sick of my behaviour and of me. I feel every professional is looking on and waiting for me to do something different. Why can I not do that? But worst is that I'm upsetting my family. Actually I'm upsetting myself to. But I also really angry. I am so angry I want to scream. I'm angry at myself for not moving my life forward despite having so much offered to me.

All I need to do is go one week being healthy. My one goal asked of me by my family who are worried. Just to allow myself to become a little bit more healthy physically. It isn't as though I can't go back to self destruct if I really wanted to after and yet...I want and dont want to do this one week. I want to so much but clearly not enough.

I go to therapists in the hope they can help me want to. But I am sick of hearing simplistic ways to be kind to myself. My huge problem is doing them, actually implementing them! I want help with that. The other day I was told that to regulate my anxiety I need to notice what the symptoms are and help myself. So if I have a dry mouth, have a sip of water. I couldn't help but smile at that but sadly, because my head does this - yay I'm thirsty, how thirsty can I make you? Lets see how miserable this can get!....what is wrong with me that that way of thinking is my go-to? Still. After all these years repeating the same behaviour over and over, you'd think I'd learn it doesn't help in any way.

I'm miserable. I continually do things that make me miserable. I'm scared of letting go of that and being fully involved in my life without having a self destruct going on in the background. I don't know what terrible thing I fear may happen but it must be a pretty big one to continue on like this.

I don't think any therapist will help me until I change this. I had hoped a therapist would teach me how to change but they seem to think giving me skills means that I can somehow implement them. Is there not a skill for doing the implementing or is that just 'I have to' thing. Problem is, I already know the answer to this. I asked a therapist this once - I asked for help because I knew will power alone wouldn't be enough...or it would become a type of willpower that'd end up hurting me another way.. but I was told the only answer is willpower. But which willpower wins out - healthy or self-destructive and which do I trust? It seems obvious to choose the healthy one but it isn't that obvious really.

You know when you have to leap into the unknown...how to do you feel safe when doing that? You'd think I was changing everything by what I'm writing....all I have to do is stop the self destruct behaviour for one week to give me a chance. This doesn't make sense does it... I have some fears of what may happen. I need to test to see if those fears are real but what if they are? Oh I don't know. I'm being utterly ridiculous.

[PinkFlamingo99]

I'm a lot like this too, and no normal therapist ever helped me with this. Now that I have been referred up so many times, I'm in a program where everyone is pretty severely sick (to end up here you have to have been referred up at least 3 times), and they do a lot of this kind of support in therapy. It took me almost a full year just to get my eating good enough that I wasn't depending on iron shots. For me it helps to have someone help me do it slowly and also to hold me accountable. We worked out a meal plan (I also saw a nutritionist), and print out the sheets every week checked off *still* to help me with the eating. We added vitamins, meds, water, because sadly I needed that. One small cleaninh task a week or none if I still hadn't done one the week before, ideas to stop me from compulsively picking and being late. The slow pace, support, and the accountability helped a lot. Now we're adding in 15 mins exercise because the snow is melting and I'm unemployed. We also added in one "fun" activity and a list of things to relax (watch movies, color, etc), because I was so bad at taking care of myself I couldn't even figure out how to have fun at my worst. I bring in my mail if i'm nervous or too lazy to open it and answer it. I have gotten better, my physical health at least is much better. This week my honework was to go see a doctor about my faintness and schedule a pap test. Bit by bit. But it does help. My therapist helps me with all this, but within the hospital/medical model and at this level it seems to be common. Have you thought of trying to get a social worker? They're usually the ones who help with all this basic stuff. Maybe you could work with a social worker on the concrete stuff and a T on the self-esteem stuff that goes with it?

It's been a huge relief finally getting support in learning to take care of myself from the bottom up. You can know in your head what you need to do but have trouble doing it.

Maybe you need more help than they realize. A lot of depressed people have trouble taking care of themselves. It's also less scary to make small changes. I'm kind of afraid of trying to get better too.

Sending big hugs to you.

When it hurts enough....

[Abby]

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

I'm a lot like this too, and no normal therapist ever helped me with this. Now that I have been referred up so many times, I'm in a program where everyone is pretty severely sick (to end up here you have to have been referred up at least 3 times), and they do a lot of this kind of support in therapy. It took me almost a full year just to get my eating good enough that I wasn't depending on iron shots. For me it helps to have someone help me do it slowly and also to hold me accountable. We worked out a meal plan (I also saw a nutritionist), and print out the sheets every week checked off *still* to help me with the eating. We added vitamins, meds, water, because sadly I needed that. One small cleaninh task a week or none if I still hadn't done one the week before, ideas to stop me from compulsively picking and being late. The slow pace, support, and the accountability helped a lot. Now we're adding in 15 mins exercise because the snow is melting and I'm unemployed. We also added in one "fun" activity and a list of things to relax (watch movies, color, etc), because I was so bad at taking care of myself I couldn't even figure out how to have fun at my worst. I bring in my mail if i'm nervous or too lazy to open it and answer it. I have gotten better, my physical health at least is much better. This week my honework was to go see a doctor about my faintness and schedule a pap test. Bit by bit. But it does help. My therapist helps me with all this, but within the hospital/medical model and at this level it seems to be common. Have you thought of trying to get a social worker? They're usually the ones who help with all this basic stuff. Maybe you could work with a social worker on the concrete stuff and a T on the self-esteem stuff that goes with it?

It's been a huge relief finally getting support in learning to take care of myself from the bottom up. You can know in your head what you need to do but have trouble doing it.

Maybe you need more help than they realize. A lot of depressed people have trouble taking care of themselves. It's also less scary to make small changes. I'm kind of afraid of trying to get better too.

Thank you for being so understanding. I can relate to a lot of what you say. The issue about opening letters is a huge problem for me too at times when I'm not coping. It was really interesting to hear others have difficulties with things like that. I don't tell anyone that sort of stuff as I find it embarrassing to not be able to cope, let alone self destructing on top. I would like more help, but I also have a hard time letting people help me. Others being kind to me is sometimes as hard as me being kind to myself. I get quite fearful of being that vulnerable around others. But I genuinely appreciate you thoughts because they really spoke to me. Sometimes I feel I portray such a level of independence that people cannot understand that actually behind the scenes very little self care is happening or able to happen.

Originally Posted by ex vivo

Sending big hugs to you.

Thank you ex vivo. I wish you'd left your post because I only got to very quickly read it before I had to go but I know it was helpful and I related to it a lot. I read it thinking - yep that is me, those are my problems. I'd welcome being able to read it again. I am looking for insight or help to move forward. But I understand if you don't feel comfortable doing that. Thanks for the hugs.

Originally Posted by _Mouse

When it hurts enough....

Mouse. I have to say that I found this quite callous. I'm not sure if you realised how this would sound to someone that is clearly struggling and wanting to change but finding it almost impossible. To say 'you're not hurting enough yet then' is really upsetting to read because I have been in pain for a long time and struggled forward despite it. Beside I have had those sorts of simplistic thoughts myself many times and for years berated myself for it clearly not being that painful or I'd change....but honestly I am quite a reflective person and I know that it is not simply about not being in "enough pain" anymore, there is something more to it than that. I thought you would understand that given your difficulties. All I ask is that you be slightly more thoughtful because I am in a lot of pain currently, it is very very bad. I don't reach out often but I need support , guidance, insights that help me move myself forward. My head with this is able to turn it to say "if you want to change then make it worse, hurt yourself further, maybe if you make it so bad you'll stop being a selfish ****** and hurting your family over your stupidity - you clearly need to suffer more".

Sorry, I think I got upset there but I need to be honest somewhere. I appreciate that you all took the time to read. I'd welcome any way to help change, and to be able to accept the kindness and support of others IRL. Thank you.

Abby, it wasn't meant to be callous. I've been in dark places over the years. Nothing anyone said could alter that. Infact I couldn't listen through the mental noise to long sermons. What I could listen to, was other people's experiences that came from short sound bites.
It was true for me, that no matter how much I was struggling, i still had more to do. Hearing it that way, gave me hope that there was an end line.
'When I hurt enough' was my mantra.
I'm sorry you took that as an attack.
Good luck in your quest.

[Abby]

Thanks for your explanation Mouse. It was helpful to read your reply and be able to realise that your remark was actually a soundbite with a backstory that I wasn't aware of. I'm pleased you had a mantra that was helpful to you during your very dark times. In many ways, I have always kept trying with different therapists and professionals because I have had hope that one day, somehow, if I just work hard enough at it then it'll become less painful. But being years down the line, with a voice screaming just as loud as it always has, I become exhausted a lot quicker now. I think that is the main difference for me. I'm a hard worker, but I am really, very tired. It takes less to push me down these days. Perhaps I need a mantra that can counter the screaming in my head. I wish there was one loud enough to stop it completely - even if just for a week. I'd take that right now. Thanks again for your explanation, I appreciate you taking the time to help me understand that what you wrote was said with kindness and in order to support me.

For me, real change only happened when I told myself "Enough was enough." I made a commitment to myself that I would absolutely do whatever it took to reverse that negative path I was on (I literally did this one day; it was a clear moment in time that I wish I had actually marked on my calendar -- it was that deliberate for me). No one could do that for me -- like you already know. But that also meant I had to actively fight against doing harmful things to myself. I did have that ability, but I had chosen not to use that ability through my whole life. When I said "Enough is enough," that meant I was committing to do the healthy thing rather than the self destructive thing from that point onward. That took active choice and a constant daily, heck hourly, battle against that destructive me.

Yes, that sounds like that "willpower" thing you say doesn't work maybe, but it was MUCH more than sheer willpower. It was a true commitment to think before I act, to admit to myself that I have a choice and to choose the paths that were life-saving rather than life-draining. It was an admission to myself that I had power (which for me was a huge realization) and had used it against myself long enough; I was going to use my power now to advocate for my life. You see, I spent my whole life believing I was broken and that life was just happening to me, that I had no control over all the negative things right now in my life. When I finally realized that yes, I did not have control when I was a child, but I am no longer a child -- I DO have power and control and choice now and as an ADULT no one is doing this to me now but myself -- it was a very frightening yet freeing realization.

It was at that point that I finally chose to commit to actually using the skills those therapists had been teaching me. It was at that point that I finally chose to do the healthy thing rather than the self-destructive thing. It was at that point that I finally chose to live instead of die -- I took suicide and self-destruction off my option list. It was amazingly freeing to not allow self-destruction as an option; I had been a slave to that self-destruction for 40 years, but it also meant I HAD to stop and choose differently -- each and every single time.

I hope that you won't wait 40 years to discover and own your power -- your power of choice. It isn't just sheer willpower -- that's WAY over-simplifying and invalidating. It IS the power of self-advocacy and the power of autonomy (self-governance; self-rule). I remember my therapist telling me, very early on, that the one thing he wanted for me was to recognize my autonomy. While I understood the meaning of the word cognitively, I didn't really understand what he meant internally. Understanding my own autonomy -- my power to choose as the adult I am -- was ultimately what healed and saved me.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...esire-autonomy

Thanks for sharing that lolagrace. Powerful stuff right there.

Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk

[Abby]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

For me, real change only happened when I told myself "Enough was enough." I made a commitment to myself that I would absolutely do whatever it took to reverse that negative path I was on (I literally did this one day; it was a clear moment in time that I wish I had actually marked on my calendar -- it was that deliberate for me). No one could do that for me -- like you already know. But that also meant I had to actively fight against doing harmful things to myself. I did have that ability, but I had chosen not to use that ability through my whole life. When I said "Enough is enough," that meant I was committing to do the healthy thing rather than the self destructive thing from that point onward. That took active choice and a constant daily, heck hourly, battle against that destructive me.

Yes, that sounds like that "willpower" thing you say doesn't work maybe, but it was MUCH more than sheer willpower. It was a true commitment to think before I act, to admit to myself that I have a choice and to choose the paths that were life-saving rather than life-draining. It was an admission to myself that I had power (which for me was a huge realization) and had used it against myself long enough; I was going to use my power now to advocate for my life. You see, I spent my whole life believing I was broken and that life was just happening to me, that I had no control over all the negative things right now in my life. When I finally realized that yes, I did not have control when I was a child, but I am no longer a child -- I DO have power and control and choice now and as an ADULT no one is doing this to me now but myself -- it was a very frightening yet freeing realization.

It was at that point that I finally chose to commit to actually using the skills those therapists had been teaching me. It was at that point that I finally chose to do the healthy thing rather than the self-destructive thing. It was at that point that I finally chose to live instead of die -- I took suicide and self-destruction off my option list. It was amazingly freeing to not allow self-destruction as an option; I had been a slave to that self-destruction for 40 years, but it also meant I HAD to stop and choose differently -- each and every single time.

I hope that you won't wait 40 years to discover and own your power -- your power of choice. It isn't just sheer willpower -- that's WAY over-simplifying and invalidating. It IS the power of self-advocacy and the power of autonomy (self-governance; self-rule). I remember my therapist telling me, very early on, that the one thing he wanted for me was to recognize my autonomy. While I understood the meaning of the word cognitively, I didn't really understand what he meant internally. Understanding my own autonomy -- my power to choose as the adult I am -- was ultimately what healed and saved me.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...esire-autonomy

Thank you Lolagrace, I appreciate your thoughtful response and I am very pleased that you had that moment in your life that set you on a different path and I hope that means things are a little better for you now.

But it is exactly that "enough is enough" that is my issue. That is the root of the problem I've written about. I'm sure that every single day before you made that decision that "enough is enough" you wanted to be in less pain, to not self-destruct - so what was it about that particular day or what brought you to that point to realise you 'have the power'? That is what I need help with - implementing, doing, deciding. I absolutely understand and agree that only I can make this decision to change and follow through on it and I realise it is an uphill battle that will involve a heck of a lot of my own willpower (which I have in the bucketful hence the extreme self destruction one way and the striving forward positively in the other). To look at, I make no sense. Most people do not realise I'm struggling and those that do, it takes quite a while for them to realise how much.

I'll admit to you that I don't get the autonomy/power aspect of your post. If you have the time and are willing, I'd appreciate it if you broke that down for me more slowly. I do not want to be powerful - that is my biggest fear - why would I want to be powerful? Power means separation to me. I fear that giving up self destruction means I will die...which I know that sounds bizarre because physically I'm 'dying' now but without self destruction all the doors, walls, and everything that keeps me together will crumble.

I have the power of choice and clearly I'm choosing self-destruction. This is what I don't understand and makes me so very sad. This is what I need help with. I don't want to do this anymore but do I beat myself up in a different way to stop the self destruction? Because obviously I'm getting something positive out of it... I wouldn't say it was kindness, but there is something caring about hurting myself...if that can make any sense.

I feel as though I'm missing something stark and obvious in what you and others have written. It is as though something is staring at me in the face and I still cannot see it.

We don't find 'anything'. We wake up one morning admitting powerlessness, if we're lucky, someone or something steps in our path and 'it' begins.
Is not a step from here to there, sometimes we don't realise 'it' is happening until further on.
Whilst we busy searching, 'it's ' already happening.

[Argonautomobile]

I like what Mouse said about how we don't always realize it's happening until further on. That while we're busy searching, trying to make it happen, it already is.

I think part of the problem here is that hindsight is 20/20. We have a tendency to look back on our life through a 'memoir' filter instead of an 'autobiography' one, if that makes any sense. It's natural to sort of shove confusing, hard, and difficult things into frameworks that make for better and more sensible stories--as in, 'one day I just woke up and realized X and that's when change began.' In my experience change is rarely linear like that. You backslide, you start small, it doesn't even feel like you're starting at all until you're already halfway through.

I'm sorry you're having such a tough time and I really hope you find a solution that works for you. I understand your frustration.

The only thing I really found helpful was breaking 'change' into smaller chunks. I had this desperate idea that I had to 'get my **** together,' which usually ended with me berating myself for not having my **** together, and so it was difficult to figure out what I even meant by that or how to start. If I had to look back, with my Memoir filter, and pinpoint a moment 'change' began to happen, it would be when I began to stop hating myself so much. It's really hard to do anything when everything leads to self-hatred and self-blame. Once I stopped hating myself so much, I was able to take a more objective look at my life and pinpoint small, specific changes I wanted to make, instead of just holding myself to some vague and imaginary standard of 'having my **** together.'

And then what? I guess you just do it. I don't think there's a secret except that it's easier to change--easier to do anything--when your goals are realistic and you're not bogged down by feeling bad about yourself. I see a lot of hatred and self-blame in your post, and I hope you find some way to be kinder to yourself and love yourself more.

[BudFox]

For me therapy was antithetical to developing autonomy. It encouraged dependency and deference to external authority.

When my T gave me advice about things that might help me move forward, I felt compelled to act on this advice, even though it went against my own sense of whether the things suggested were doable or appropriate (most of which I had already been over in my mind prior to discussing it with her). What was autonomy-building was realizing later that I did not need her advice, and that I already knew what was what.

[PinkFlamingo99]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

We don't find 'anything'. We wake up one morning admitting powerlessness, if we're lucky, someone or something steps in our path and 'it' begins.
Is not a step from here to there, sometimes we don't realise 'it' is happening until further on.
Whilst we busy searching, 'it's ' already happening.

I'm not sure I agree with this in every case. For me, 'it' is finding a reason to live or to want to continue with life. And I don't really know if, in my personal experience, this is really something that can be summed up by an automatic process. It's more a decision or a reason to go forward instead of being stuck in limbo, and I've come to realize that I need this to be a conscious decision because without it I seem to "naturally" gravitate toward destruction and suicidal impulses.

It was never about choosing to live for me. Life was to far from where I was. It was about wanting the pain to stop. I had no clear notion of even being alive. Or a person.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Abby

I do not want to be powerful - that is my biggest fear - why would I want to be powerful? Power means separation to me. I fear that giving up self destruction means I will die...which I know that sounds bizarre because physically I'm 'dying' now but without self destruction all the doors, walls, and everything that keeps me together will crumble.

I have the power of choice and clearly I'm choosing self-destruction..... Because obviously I'm getting something positive out of it... I wouldn't say it was kindness, but there is something caring about hurting myself....

Hi Abby, this is important stuff here ^ that I think would be helpful for you to understand better.

[Gavinandnikki]

I'm so sorry you are in this place. But I really like the one week thing.

What's the risk? How could it get worse than what it already is?

7 days. Fake if you have to but do something different. After 7 days, make a decision. Continue on or go back to your old ways.

It's only 7 days. Go for it. Sending positive thought that you summon up the courage to do something outside your box for 7 days.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

I think for me it is realizing that a therapist can't save you or do things for you. They are just a tool or a guide. I have to take the skills and tools learned from the therapist and make the changes myself. I went into therapy years ago thinking it was a "quick fix" and the therapist would do all the work. I also spent to much time getting attached to the therapist. Lessons learned though.