[TishaBuv]

My h and I are going to marriage therapy with a CBT psychologist. I told him at our first appt how I crying hysterically because of my h. I guess he didn't really believe me.

Last night we went in there fighting after a really great week. Long story... bottom line, I feel that my h is a Jekyll/Hyde who can control what torments me, but pretends he can't. This week proved he can control it.

So, rather than giving him kudos and being happy with him, I am so hurt that he caused me years of suffering.

Instead of owning up to his misdeeds, he threw it all back on me. He always does this, has no empathy, won't accept fault, blames me instead.

This caused the water works. I got hysterical in the Dr's office. So he referred me to a psychiatrist.

If I am emotionally hysterical and crying over this man (not anything else!) does that automatically mean I have a disorder?

He said that I did not have a reasonable reaction. But I think I do, considering this exasperating problem has been tormenting me every day for 20 years!

I am defending my life here.

[runlola72]

If you are in a marriage where your H throws everything back at you and invalidates your feelings, making you feel crazy, that is absolutely exasperating, and would cause many people to react by crying. Gaslighting is awful. Sorry the T wasn't able to see through your husband's antics

[Artchic528]

Your husband's antics and the toll it's taking on you are all the more reason to divorce him. I know it's hard to just end a marriage, but you really need to think of yourself and your mental wellbeing first and foremost. Clearly being with him isn't working anymore. Also, all this indecision is bad for your son. What kind of example would you feel your setting for him by showing him that you're not strong enough to take care of yourself?

Yes, I think a divorce is the solution that needs to be done here. You've done more than enough to try to save this doomed marriage. It's time to finish it once and for all.

[LucyG]

Crying over being mistreated by your husband DOESN'T make you mentally ill. It makes you human. Don't let normal human emotions be labeled as anything but that.

If there are other symptoms you've experienced apart from the abuse from your husband, you could have something going on, but the two need to be separated.

[TishaBuv]

Is the CBT therapy just going to teach me to accept my h for the ways he is good, and forgive how he didn't/doesn't truly love me?

The t will say what I just said about him not loving me is faulty thinking. But here's my thoughts about that truth: How can someone who truly loves and cares about you cause you so much pain to where you are hysterical crying and continue to do it? That can't be love.

I know it stems back to my mother's abusive treatment the same way toward me since as far back as I can remember. She screamed and verbally abused me to the point of me being hysterical and then said I deserved it.

But the CBT t won't let me discuss past at all. Only present.

No matter how I explained how I need to be treated to my h, he just can't/won't.

[Artchic528]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Is the CBT therapy just going to teach me to accept my h for the ways he is good, and forgive how he didn't/doesn't truly love me?

The t will say what I just said about him not loving me is faulty thinking. But here's my thoughts about that truth: How can someone who truly loves and cares about you cause you so much pain to where you are hysterical crying and continue to do it? That can't be love.

I know it stems back to my mother's abusive treatment the same way toward me since as far back as I can remember. She screamed and verbally abused me to the point of me being hysterical and then said I deserved it.

But the CBT t won't let me discuss past at all. Only present.

No matter how I explained how I need to be treated to my h, he just can't/won't.

Why are you even asking yourself these questions? Your H is a manipulative man who clearly doesn't love you at all anymore. Like you said, the therapy will only allow you to feel that his behaviors are acceptable, when they clearly aren't. Please, PLEASE divorce this man. If not for me, do so for your sanity.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Artchic528

Why are you even asking yourself these questions? Your H is a manipulative man who clearly doesn't love you at all anymore. Like you said, the therapy will only allow you to feel that his behaviors are acceptable, when they clearly aren't. Please, PLEASE divorce this man. If not for me, do so for your sanity.

What makes you think that?

[Artchic528]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

What makes you think that?

If he truly loved you, he wouldn't manipulate you in the slightest, or play this whole "Jekyll and Hyde" routine on you to make you feel miserable and crazy all the time.

No, he is clearly a lost cause, as is your marriage.

[TishaBuv]

I've had family, friends, and loves who were never abusive at all. Then I've had a few close people who loved, but were somewhat abusive to me.

You pose a good question, Artchic. Do abusers not love you AT ALL?

[bounceback]

Like you said if he can't or won't change, than you are at a standstill. He might still love you but doesn't want to be any different. You got to figure out what is right for you. I am sorry you are going through this. Maybe your marriage counselor didn't realize how long you have been stuffing down the pain and ended up in hysterics. She might not have seen the whole picture.

[Salmon77]

Based on what you say about your mother, it sounds like maybe you would benefit from individual therapy that is not CBT-oriented.

[TishaBuv]

The CBT psych said it is the new standard and Freudian psych is 'dangerous'. I wish I didn't have to deal with theory of psych confusion on top of all this. Any POV's on CBT vs. other types of therapy?

[Wonderfalls]

The more (secretly) horrible your husband is to you, and the less your marriage counselor can see it, the more reason for having your own separate counselor yourself. This doesn't need to be a psychiatrist--it can be your very own therapist. He can teach you how to deal with husband and even how to deal with the marriage therapist. It sounds like the marriage help you need is how to get out of it. If he isn't working towards that then I'd take him at his word that you need someone else, never mind if he meant it to show you're the weaker one. Strength is knowing when you need (additional) help.

[Submax]

Tisha- Just because he gave you a referral doesn't mean you have to go. You are in control not the therapist you are seeing. I don't know the whole story but it doesn't seem to unreasonable to cry at a session.

[TishaBuv]

I told t I might not even come back to see him because now I am embarrassed from the crying and don't really trust him or my h.

I remember teachers in school threatening they were going to write something bad about me in my permanent file. That's how I feel with the psy's, lol. I'd love to have seen that permanent file from my school.

I guess whatever they write about me doesn't matter anymore now that my kids are all nearly grown. It won't affect my parenting custody. I am a great mom.

One psy scared me by saying there was a stigma with certain diagnoses and I wouldn't be able to get insurance.

[here today]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

. . .
Last night we went in there fighting after a really great week. Long story... bottom line, I feel that my h is a Jekyll/Hyde who can control what torments me, but pretends he can't. This week proved he can control it.

So, rather than giving him kudos and being happy with him, I am so hurt that he caused me years of suffering.

Instead of owning up to his misdeeds, he threw it all back on me. He always does this, has no empathy, won't accept fault, blames me instead.

. . .

I am defending my life here.

My 2 cents -- I had a Jekyll/Hyde over which I had some but not full control. I was aware, worked on things as well as I could, went to therapy (psychodynamic mostly), did not have a lot of luck with that except that after an enormous number of years I'm some better now. Enormous number of years, lots of money, some therapy made things worse, eventually lucky maybe.

Interesting that therapists are now are saying that Freudian type therapy is "dangerous". Can be is definitely my opinion. But if that type of therapy is dangerous (plus long and expensive) I'm not at all sure that expecting people to "be better" all on their own is realistic either.

Extraordinarily sad. And frustrating.

I expect, based on my own experience when I was in my Hyde mode, that your H was feeling defensive and/or attacked, which brought up the armor and "no empathy"/all-me point of view. He's wounded, you're wounded, I sure don't have any answers. Sure wish I did. . .

[TishaBuv]

Thank you all so much for your helpful comments. I'll sleep on it.

[mostlylurking]

It doesn't sound like you've been seeing this T for very long... could you find someone else? Invalidating your pain by suggesting it's a psychiatric disorder when it's the first time the T has seen this reaction from you seems like a huge leap on the T's part. And it feels like taking sides with your H as well. Saying older forms of therapy are "dangerous" is also a warning sign, because different people find different modalities helpful. Does he think that only CBT is ever useful? If that's the case, are both of your families of origin just off the table in terms of discussion? I would totally run the other way and never go back to that T if it were me.

ETA: I think CBT is the "new standard" because it tends to be short term (so insurance companies love it) and it's easier to study in clinical trials because it can be standardized into a "one size fits all" process that's the same (or almost the same) for all the study participants. This leads CBT proponents to say it's more "evidence based" than other types of therapy. It truth it's just easier to standardize, so it's easier to turn into studies, data sets and research papers. Neither of these strikes me as a plus, personally. I actually really like CBT for self help, I just disagree that it should be the "new standard" in therapy.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by mostlylurking

It doesn't sound like you've been seeing this T for very long... could you find someone else? Invalidating your pain by suggesting it's a psychiatric disorder when it's the first time the T has seen this reaction from you seems like a huge leap on the T's part. And it feels like taking sides with your H as well. Saying older forms of therapy are "dangerous" is also a warning sign, because different people find different modalities helpful. Does he think that only CBT is ever useful? If that's the case, are both of your families of origin just off the table in terms of discussion? I would totally run the other way and never go back to that T if it were me.

Yes, we've only seen him for a couple months. He didn't suggest a disorder. He only said I should see a different CBT psych by myself because I cried and was so deeply hurt (a very valid hurt IMO). Yes, he did say only CBT is useful and the other was dangerous, made it sound like CBT is now all that is being done. Is that true? Yes, families are off the table. Nothing matters except correcting your faulty thinking in the moment. But I don't think my thinking is so faulty!

The PD idea came from me reading every psych description I could, desperately trying to figure out what is wrong with me, identifying a lot with BPD, my h agreeing he thinks it may be BPD, me asking my then psy about it and him saying yes to BPD traits. But I am the one who brought it up to him. So confusing.

[mostlylurking]

Wow. That T sounds like a nightmare. Most people who seek therapy find it helpful yet most therapy is not CBT so your T is factually wrong, CBT is not the only useful approach. It makes me wonder if he is an egotist, a CBT zealot, or ignorant? None of which sounds good. And as for leaving your families out of it-- ha!!!! That is just... so stunningly ridiculous I'm at a loss for words. Sorry to be so negative. Something in your story touched a nerve with me because it felt like victim-blaming and sexism might be playing a role.

[TishaBuv]

That's funny you said sexism. When I told my mother what happened, she said that my crying made the men think less of me, like a weak woman. She also said that I was foolish to think my h would admit any wrong doing and have any compassion for me. She should know, she's the same that way.

Actually, I'm thinking she's right. I need to find some way to just let it go. A husband, a mother, they are no different than any friend or acquaintance. I can't expect more.

That lost, lacking feeling of severe unhappiness will just have to be thought of by me as a disorder. Maybe then I can cope better.

[Artchic528]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

That's funny you said sexism. When I told my mother what happened, she said that my crying made the men think less of me, like a weak woman. She also said that I was foolish to think my h would admit any wrong doing and have any compassion for me. She should know, she's the same that way.

Actually, I'm thinking she's right. I need to find some way to just let it go. A husband, a mother, they are no different than any friend or acquaintance. I can't expect more.

That lost, lacking feeling of severe unhappiness will just have to be thought of by me as a disorder. Maybe then I can cope better.

.... Why accept pain and suffering as an inevitable? That's very unhealthy IMHO.

[TishaBuv]

Isn't that feeling part of BPD? My emotions are all over about this. I honestly felt great and loving this last week, only to crash to despair from the t session last night.

I'm not going to be able to turn off that pain and anger I suffered. He doesn't feel heartfelt empathy for me. If he did, it never would have happened.

So, if I just accept it, that's the only way I know how to cope.

We're still together at least for now. Once our son is a little older, who knows?

Also, don't feel I am weak for staying. You have no idea how much strength it takes.

[mostlylurking]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Actually, I'm thinking she's right. I need to find some way to just let it go. A husband, a mother, they are no different than any friend or acquaintance. I can't expect more.

That lost, lacking feeling of severe unhappiness will just have to be thought of by me as a disorder. Maybe then I can cope better.

None of that is true. I know I don't know you, but... none of that is true. I do hope you can get a T of your own. Can you find a feminist T, like someone recommended by... oh I don't know, La Leche League or some woman-friendly group in your area?

[Artchic528]

Who said you were weak? I just think leaving is the better and healthier option. You really have to put yourself first and foremost when dealing with psychological issues.

Also, pain and suffering on ANY terms is COMPLETELY unacceptable. To me, you're making a lot of excuses to not confront the issue head on. You're trying to skirt around it and not deal with it at all. It's the elephant in the room and your just letting it stay there, breaking your heart and slowly destroying you.