[debbie_tabor]

My therapist is a nice person but just too practical. I try to talk about important things and just come away from seeing her feeling empty. I know I can feel more than this because I had a therapist previously who I wanted to be my mother, the feelings were so strong.

I had it in my head she was fairly new at the game, and finally broached the subject to find out she's been at it 20 years. Funny and hideous all at the same time. All I could say was she doesn't look old enough!

I'm scared to change in case I get someone worse. At least she's a nice person, and I think she has tried to change things when we've discussed how I feel. I do get something out of seeing her. I've never discussed having suicidal feelings before and maybe over all the years of fantasising about what I wanted people's responses to be I've come to expect too much.

I think I know what I need to do. I like the system my group therapist uses so I need to see if she can recommend someone using the same system. Except my group therapist knows my individual and recommended her in the first place.

Positive things: I'm trying to deal with it in a grown up way (about time at 40), discussing it with my therapist and not just running away.
Negative things: I don't like it (that sounds pitiful!), and I'm not sure if or when I'm going to take the next step, but I need to decide.

Any comments or thoughts welcome.

Maybe you can interview someone while you still see your current T.

Have you asked for what you want (the opposite of what your getting) from your T? Has she understood?

[sunrise]

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debbie_tabor said:
I try to talk about important things and just come away from seeing her feeling empty.

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and I think she has tried to change things when we've discussed how I feel.

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That is a good sign she tries to change to give you what you need. But her changes aren't helpful? It sounds really hard to go to therapy if you come away from being with her feeling empty. Can you and she brainstorm about how things could be different so you wouldn't feel that way? To me it sounds like she's not clearly the wrong T for you but not clearly the right one either. That is great she is a nice person. It sounds like more discussing of this between the two of you could be helpful in your decision of whether to stay or look elsewhere.

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I'm scared to change in case I get someone worse.

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You know more now about what you are looking for in a therapist, so I don't think you would "get" someone worse. If you do decide to leave your current T, you would not choose someone new who was worse for your next T, only someone who is better and you think can fill your needs. You would know better what questions to ask at your interview, and what sort of therapeutic approach and type of relationship you are looking for. You have learned these things from being with your current T.

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I like the system my group therapist uses so I need to see if she can recommend someone using the same system. Except my group therapist knows my individual and recommended her in the first place.

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What system does your group T use? Could you see your group T for individual therapy? Your group T may have recommended your T not because she uses the same system, but for other reasons. If you specifically ask your group T for referrals to therapists who use the same approach as he, you could get some great suggestions.

Good luck, debbie. It is a hard decision.

[debbie_tabor]

Thanks for your replies, yes it is a difficult decision. I stopped discussing it with her because I felt so uncomfortable about it, and I needed to deal with other stuff, which isn't so good cos then she doesn't know where we're at. If I keep seeing her I do need to discuss what's wrong more - how practical she is when I need the emotional connection is a big thing.

She doesn't connect things with the past either which I was surprised about. My group Ts system is to look at the different parts of yourself and what age they are and what their problems are and why, and she's all into triggers from the past. It helps make sense of things. I don't think I can see her individually without leaving the group, but I think I will talk to her next week to get her view on things, and see if she does have recommendations. I feel bad because my individual will know about it.

Thanks for your encouragement about my judgement sunrise, that helps. And it does make sense to meet with potential other Ts before deciding to change. I'm in the middle of being depressed right now which might not be the best time to do these things, but the more I think about it the more I at least need to look into it.

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debbie_tabor said:
My therapist is a nice person but just too practical. I try to talk about important things and just come away from seeing her feeling empty. I know I can feel more than this because I had a therapist previously who I wanted to be my mother, the feelings were so strong.

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It is such a difficult thing to decide when it is actually time to change therapists. As far a coming away from her feeling empty... Do you notice that the empty feeling is directly connected to therapy? Even though I have a good connection with my T and we have worked together for 2 yrs. so far, I still do (as recently as last week) come away from sessions feeling empty. These are generally times in which I am filled with emptiness and ambivalance about everything. However, since you have compared this to a feeling of strong emotional attachment to a previous T, it sounds as though maybe you are not getting that connection with current T.

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I'm scared to change in case I get someone worse. At least she's a nice person, and I think she has tried to change things when we've discussed how I feel. I do get something out of seeing her. I've never discussed having suicidal feelings before and maybe over all the years of fantasising about what I wanted people's responses to be I've come to expect too much.

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Can you specifically define what you get out of seeing her? Maybe this will help. I wasn't clear on what you wrote-- have you discusses the suicidal feelings with her? I had a lot of trouble discussing SI with my T (still do) because over the years, I have had so much of a lack of response by those around me. I always had this fantasy of the exact response I'd want to get... and I ended up being afraid of talking about it to T because I thought I'd get the exact same non-response... and I'd set myself up for hurt and disappointment.

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Positive things: I'm trying to deal with it in a grown up way (about time at 40), discussing it with my therapist and not just running away.
Negative things: I don't like it (that sounds pitiful!), and I'm not sure if or when I'm going to take the next step, but I need to decide.

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It sounds like you are handling things in a really well thought out way. But please remember this... it's one thing to deal with things maturely by thinking something through and not running away, and a whole other thing to just stay for other reasons, even though you don't feel comfortable. I also say this... and I'll say it again and again... the therapeutic relationship is like other relationships only in the sense that it has to be two people who "click." And just like any relationship, you aren't always going to find that on the first occasion. Or you may have had it at one time with someone, not had it with someone else, etc. I think a lot of times there is an expectation that things will work out and a huge disappointment when things don't, just for the simple fact that this person is a therapist. But sometimes you have to try one, two, or even more, before it can work. My current therapist is in my 3rd. It takes two-- a patient who is willing to do the work and a therapist who is willing to go along for the journey... but even if you have those two willing parties, it's not always going to happen that way... in life, some people connect, others don't... I believe it's the same in therapy. So I urge you to really think about the connection and relationship that exists genuinely for you and your T... it will help you with your decision. I wish you luck.

[debbie_tabor]

Hi Pinksoil (how did you come by your name?),

With regard to the empty feelings, I do feel depressed but actually all I need to feel overwhelmingly comforted is for someone to ask if I'm going to be OK until next time and look like they care. Or acknowledge that to be feeling suicidal is crap. My case manager at a day program last year asked all that stuff.

I have talked about suicidal feelings to my therapist. Her reponses were part of the reason I thought she was inexperienced. The first time I said anything I was feeling really emotional but whatever she said just cut the whole thing off. We talked about that. The second time I brought it up we talked for much longer, but it just felt like she was discounting everything I was saying, so I ended up with nothing left to say. We talked about that too.

I recently brought up the fact that I felt much more like self-harming (I haven't for years) and we didn't go into that at all. Although I always feel very apologetic for bringing these things up and usually end up making out it's not that important really. On the other hand, when I last SI'd badly it was because I wasn't getting the support I needed from my therapist which probably says more than anything!!!

Did you get lucky with your current T? Does she give you the response that that you need when talking about SI?

I think that my current T is 'nice to talk to'. It's much better to have her to talk to than noone, and I can talk about anything. But I think it's more like counselling than therapy - there's no depth. She listens and makes practical suggestions.

You are right that staying in the relationship because it's too uncomfortable to leave is just wrong. And this isn't what I want in the relationship. I'm going to talk to my group T next week. Thanks v much for your advice.

[RiverX]

Hi Debbie,
When I read your post I had so much stong feelings I had to put a hold off answering incase I got offensive. I get angry about some of the stuff that therapists get away with.
I think you shouldnt have to teach your T to go deep, a T should welcome your interest and courage to go deep and should support you all the way, and be with you to reflect and understand how important these things are, and also have her own useful input. I think its great you are ready and willing to go deep, I'm afraid for you that that really good impulse can be lost or diluted in the hands of someone who doesnt really understand. I dont think for a minute you are asking too much, go for your heart, go for someone deep and able to really hold you on your journey of exploration, you deserve it and need it.

I have such strong feelings because I had such a destructive experience in therapy, I loved her with a passion, but it was dessolving the good that was in me. Its a long story, too long for here and now. I am diagnosed schiziod, and that also explains why I am very sensitive, but I wouldnt want to lose my sensitivity, what I want to lose is my tendency to abdicate my own truth and let someone elses, particularly hers take over.

just to let you know, if you are interested, me and friend who also ids with this have been having a study group, , We read the professional literature, gain understanding and share our experiences, its warm and deep and I usually feel strongr after it. we would love to have someone else join us, (would need to be email etc skype?).

Hope it all went well for you, keep looking till you get what you need, I'd say. .

riverx :

[debbie_tabor]

Hey RiverX, good to see you wondering too.

Yeah, it ain't going so well with my therapist, and I'm going to change. It's kinda scary at the moment having to talk to a bunch of strangers but it has to be done.

A good therapist can do so much good.....

Re the study group, I'm not really doing sociable on here (or IRL!) except in the forums, preferring to mingle with the masses rather than make personal connections, but thanks for the offer, much appreciated.

See you around,
Debbie

[RiverX]

Hi,
Just a bit of info incase its helpful: the T. I had trained with, - I dont know if we're allowed to do this here, .... the Masterson Group, they specialise in these type of things and know what they're doing, having said that, I found it really difficult with mine, but I feel thats to do with me, and others would get on ok

warmest wishe for the search.

riverx.

[debbie_tabor]

Thanks, but er-hum, if therapy goes wrong, there are two people in the relationship, and I don't think you're officially allowed to blame yourself. I hope this hasn't stopped you getting help from elsewhere.

[RiverX]

Actually, you're right.
I need to get honest and face how damaging this therapy was to me. Yet, I still want to go back, its like a compulsion and like a battle ground. Like 'spiritual warfare', 'psychotherapy' is nothing to do with it. YET I want to go back. Its a deep conflict within me, they (she) would say that is the disorder, in internal conflict. Some of it is, some of it isnt.
I need to think and pray about next steps. Theres more to explain, I might come back to that and share it in a thread.
But, thanks, what you said was helpful.
river.