Left feeling unstable

Rainbow-what does this mean?

If you feel you cant help someone, you purposely help them less?

Yes, not this time but before. I told him it seems like he wants to get rid of me. He said if he wanted to get rid of me, hed not work with me. But its hard to believe-no therapist is going to tell you "yes, i want to get rid of you".

Maybe its because he thinks ill kill myself and he doesnt want to deal with that? Maybe he had a client do that.

I dont agree with what you said below. Its written in books that therapists want young, attractive, educated clients who have most potential for change. At any rate, at least be likeable to the therapist.

It could be he sees no hope for me. Hes never told me otherwise.

Not in the books I've read, it seems we have read different books... and defiantly not what my t has said. My t could care less about what I looked like if I was happy with what I looked like or how old I am.

I would have to say something about "potential for change", I would agree that there is something about this.. my take is not so much potential but willingness to try, willingness to stay open.

Skies, I am sorry you are having a rough day and I wish I could find the words that would help. In the short period of time that I have been here, I have seen you write some lovely posts providing great amount of support for others here. I really wished I could provide you that support today. I can tell by the other posts, that I am not alone in this wish.

Maybe not that baldly, but therapists seem quite capable of firing clients.

Look, it sounds like this guy is bad news for you whatever his intentions. I'm not clear on why you're staying? I'm also curious as to why psychoanalysis, especially for a suicidal client? They don't seem a match to me.

I think that's kind of outdated? Like 60s, 70s outdated? Not that there aren't biases in client selection still. In any case, why do you say he doesn't find you likable? Has he said that directly?

(I mean, I like you, just from your written word. I can't imagine you being less articulate in person.)

That was very kind.

Yes, there are several ive seen that mention that, but i did say likeable too. He says after 3 years, i still show hostility towards him and still thinks he doesnt like me. It doesnt make sense though, the withholding provokes it.

I tol him he took that concept of withholding mirroring, validation, empathy, etc. too far. Torture anyone and it will bring out one's worst! Then taking support away when i need it the most? I dont understand how im supposed to react to that-with gratefulness and thanks?

And i am complicated, being possessed by introjects and so forth. Therapists run from that stuff. Even saying 'i have attachment issues' causes many to recoil.

Yes, he is but i mentioned maybe he doesnt want to deal with a potential sui.

Hes not bad news. Hes very competent. I keep thinking this has some therapeutic purpose. And if it doesnt, it seems more traumatizing to leave then stay.

Ive asked him a number of times if he likes me or what he likes about me. He would never say. Then recently, told me all kinds of things he liked about the students he boarded to, went on about all their positive qualities. That was actually the start of our big rupture.

I do think he sees things out of proportion at times. Like one time he pointed out out i got jealous of something he said about his wife, and used that to illustraye my dysfunction.

Well, i told him my last therapist used to talk about hos wife and granchildren etc to me and it felt endearing. I never felt envious, it was joyful seeing his face light up when he talked about family. But he also expressed affection for me here and there, so i didnt feel love deprived when working with him. So it cant ne all me.

At the sane time of the last rupture, he said i was his only client who reacted this badly to his treatment. Not his exact words as i forget, but it made me feel horrible about myself.

Skies, I am so sorry you are going through this.

You are so very triggered right now because of what t has said and done. I can sense a flat hopelessness coming through in your responses and words. It seems that this place that you are in is connecting with a ton of past experiences of hopelessness... so that all that exists for you right now is this pervasive pain and ever-present lack of hope.
Can you call on some of the others to help you through this?

Theres another poster here who says, her t says, all her other clients love her. Not exactly the same thing, but maybe it indicates a bad fit?

You are so right Luce. All these horrible feelings emerging. So incredibly painful. You summed it up pretty good.

Dont know how to get help.

Well it wasnt a bad fit until a year ago, so why not before?

If a therapist felt that way "only cloent" it seems to be more about the therapist than the client.

He said that in reaction to his withholding i mentioned earlier. I think it was his mistake due to the issues i came in with, as mentioned before, plus my backgroung. He said the other clients had similar bacmgrounds as me and were ok, but i dont think thats true. He also took that withholding too far. He overestimates my ego strenght, as did the last 2 therapists as well, one who drove me to a breakdown because he, too, overestimated my ego strenght. The strength is just one part of me. It doesnt represent all of me. The strong part of me leads them to think the rest of me is like that. But its not.

Mistakes, not mismatch. If we were a mismatch, why would we still be here 3 years later? Or is that how you think it works?

How many relationships (sexual, friendships, etc.) do you know that are an obvious mismatch and go on for way too long, hurting one or both parties? It happens constantly.

If you think this guy is driving you to a breakdown or is starting down that path by overestimating your ego strength, then I still say what I did before, he's bad news. Competency and harm are not mutually exclusive in any practitioner.

Do you think he will listen to you and change or accommodate to your needs or wishes?

When I read stories like this, I feel so glad that I have a T that can manage 'it all'.
I remember early on in my therapy with her, I was in a psychotic state emailing back & forth one evening with her. I can't remember now what I was saying, but it felt extremely urgent back & forth.

I remember talking about it later with T and me saying I was afraid she wouldn't reply and/or that she would leave me because of what was going on. I remember her saying of course it affected her as a person, but it was part of the work.
She understands it is all about the work. My state may have been upsetting for her, but she knows it's not about her. No rupture.
I don't tell this stories to brag. I tell them so others can compare and decide whether what they've got is enough for them, or whether to look for a T that gets and understands 'THE WORK'.

T1 began to handle boundaries in a more and more withdrawing way because I was attached to him and he was struggling to handle my feelings. I felt worse than when I started. There was more going on in his personal life which contributed and I wasn't getting effective therapy any more. It's nothing to do with him being a good or bad person or anything. It wasn't working. I wasn't getting therapy.
The question I had to ask myself (and I believe we should all ask ourselves in therapy) is "is this therapeutic?". And like my situation with T1, what you describe doesn't sound therapeutic.
I left. It was traumatic, painful and like re-experiencing traumatic loss all over again. I mourned him for a year. But it was the best decision I ever made for myself and my therapy. I'm so glad I took that step. So while it is immediately more traumatic to leave, if you can weather that storm with the solid support of a good therapist, it will get better. I no longer wish for any kind of relationship with T1.
Sending you

But the frame should be there to help YOU to do the therapy work you need to do. I suggest asking why this frame is exactly the way it is. What does he suggest you do when you feel unstable next time and feel the need to email. What could you do instead? Also, have you told him you can't afford the second session? Then, if he suggests booking another session, you can ask him how does he imagine it when he knows that you can't afford it. Don't let this discussion stay abstract and high level. It has to go very specific. Otherwise I really don't know what you are talking about at all.

All relationships can "go wrong" it's very easy to see a person and how great their other relationships are looking in. You diagnose yourself as the prblem "he's not like this with other ppl so it must be me" that way you have a false sense of control. If you get it wrong then you can get it right somehow. The truth is that it takes 2 ppl in any relationship and he is responsible for this failure. Perhaps even more so in this situation.

I know it is hard to hear because you may feel attached to who he was before and not who he is now, but the best thing you can do is find someone who can really help. What you need is not wrong but he cannot help you with that. Maybe he did but he doesn't seem to now.

I hope you are well. You deserve so much healing.

Btw my ex T was a fan of saying I was the "only" person who needed whatever. It was shaming and made me feel horrible. I found a new T who stated that I was by no means her only client who wanted certain things (hugs or emails) and whatever it was she wouldn't reject me. It was a liberating and freeing.

I wish i didnt wake up today. I wish i was dead.

Who are these other therapists? They dont take insurance and charge fees that put therapy out of reach for many of us. Not that i could open up to another one, but if it were a way to get thru this, maybe. But i still need therapy for my issues.

Im so confused right now.

You know, I cannot imagine what is like to have to have insurance. That leaves professions open to bloating their fees.
We in the UK don't have a perfect system. And mental health care in our NHS is inadequate at best. But, many T's cannot inflate fees because they wouldn't get any clients. I'm sure many charge more than mine, and if mine didn't offer a sliding scale I couldn't afford it. But she and others do.
I'm sorry it's much more limited where you are. But I'm sure there's a golden apple somewhere for you.

Actually he said that right after I said I never had this problem in therapy before. He DOES get defensive at times, so maybe it's related to that, I'm not sure. I can't imagine many here who wouldn't be affected by the kind of withholding he did, when he took it to the extreme.

One sentence isn't probably a good basis for any overarching judgement like this.

I thought I could never open up to another one (I wrote that here on PC at the time) but two years later I have told this T things I would never have dreamt of even telling T1. It didn't happen overnight, but my attachment and trust transferred to the new therapist.
I'm sorry your choices are limited by your insurance, and it's not at all easy to muster the energy to look for a new therapist when you are at such a low ebb (quite the catch 22, really) but I urge you to keep trying. Many people here on this board have been able to find excellent quality therapists who take insurance, and I really hope for the same for you.

That really stuck out to me.

There were SO many times during my years of therapy that I felt exactly how you are right now,thinking my T wanted to get rid of me,etc.There were even times when I told him there were certain things he said or did that I liked or I thought helped me and then he would stop saying or doing them and I couldn't understand why.Sometimes I would demand an explanation but he would be very vague about it,which would upset me even more.

I realize in hindsight he wasn't being cruel or anything,I see he was doing what he thought was best,testing me,challenging me, in order to find my vulnerabilities,my weaknesses,what makes me tick.In the end,I always ended up learning more about myself and it was always helpful in the long run.

His withholding from me,at times,were so painful,but I know now were necessary for me.And I know if he had been exactly who and how I wanted him to be ,if he had done everything the way I wanted him to,I wouldn't have benefitted as much as I have.

Once,I sent a really long email,I really poured my heart out talking about some very important things I had never talked about in sessions.His response was very cold,short and invalidating.My reaction was very extreme and I didn't go to a couple of sessions,did no call no shows,almost ended up going to the hospital,etc.At the time I was so hurt,I thought he was so cruel and uncaring,but once I did go back and we talked about it(and he was vague again)I was able to understand why I reacted the way I did,why I was so triggered,and it was very beneficial.

I do see that he was triggering,many times purposely,to see my reactions.Some of them felt so heartless and cruel to me,but in reality,that was just my perception and he wasn't intentionally being heartless and cruel.He knew exactly what he was doing,I just didn't realize it at the time.

It might be that the way you are thinking and feeling right now are due to your own past,your own experiences,your own perceptions rather than any ill intentions on his behalf.

I also want to mention that all the times I wanted to quit therapy because it was too hard,left me feeling worse as each week went by and talked to him about it he said if I wasn't feeling like crap then therapy wasn't helping,that it gets worse before it gets better,that's the nature of trauma therapy.

Hang in there,you will get through this.

I would be major time affected by what he did. Having watched the comments from people struggling with this and who have been with the same t for over 3 yrs; I have started to worry that when I get to the 2-3 yr mark, my t might start doing some of the same stuff all in the name of "intervention", "burn out", or "counter transference". I guess it doesn't matter the why, I don't want her to ever pull back anything she's given. I feel I need to grow out of it and away from the needs rather than being shoved out of the nest so to speak. I hope she believes this too.

I mean really, if I ever get to the place where I am as comfortable about between session contacts as she says they are ok to do and then she was to tell me that they are no longer welcomed - I would freak out. It would be devastating and extremely trauma creating.

I just posted about contact outside of session before reading this post. All of your feelings are mine as well. T's being one way, then changing it. For the greater good? Not so sure about that...it feels awful.

I've just read through this thread and recalled some other things you said on other threads, Skies. You mentioned that this therapist was very helpful for you in a few ways in the past - that is good. But more recently it seems like he's been triggering a lot of pain with the strategies he is using (whether with your best interest in mind or defensively). What I would consider in such a situation is whether it's useful for me to continue with him, keeping my current needs and goals in mind. It is perhaps not necessary to question his competency in general, maybe more that he was helpful in a certain period and for some things, but it does not mean he'll be helpful forever and with everything. Also, relationships are dynamic, change and evolve over time. Sometimes they expire in spite of being great in the past. I would probably evaluate what more potential benefits you could have from this therapy, and if you have ideas, discuss it with the T. If he is no longer willing or able to support you and provide help, for whatever reason, and it's not just a momentary state but persists, maybe consider stopping. This may vary among clients but I personally think that no therapy is a better option than constantly stressful, harmful therapy. I think that a therapy that hurts more than it relieves over a long period is most likely not done well or is not a good match.

I mentioned in other discussions before that I used to have a psychoanalyst who was quite rigid in his views and methods. It was interesting and helpful for a while but then stopped being beneficial and actually made me worse and worse in a particularly stressful and difficult period. He also handled between-sessions communication in a very erratic way. Like you, I wondered if it was about me and he was just trying to find the best approach working with me at that time. I kept looking for fault within but in the end I felt convinced that most of it was not about me but his own insecurities and... well, not having the background and skills to work outside of his beliefs. I'm not suggesting that you do the same but for me stopping at that point and not pushing it further turned out a really good solution. I then found another T who is very consistent and more compatible with me in many ways, including focusing on strengths, improvements and positives in the present, instead of looking for faults and negatives in my history all the time.

Again, just my opinion, but I think that model of psychoanalysis that it has to go on for many years is really outdated. I think it is often more effective to use approaches and therapists that are suitable for whatever state and concerns we have at a given period of life. It's not like they are blood relatives that we are stuck with for life and need to adopt to because there is no choice.

You seem to think that this T cannot help you and you are not improving... are you sure this is the case, and not the other way around? That the T was helpful for a while but actually you may have surpassed him and his toolkit? Maybe why he behaves in such a defensive manner, not explaining things to you etc. I would always be very cautious drawing conclusions about someone I only "see" in very limited ways online but if there is any impression I could get from your posts here, it's that you don't come across as a negative person at all. You also do not appear cynical fro your posts. But you do display a keen sense of complexity, depth and a very analytical mind. I can easily imagine that the way you tap into and question things in a gentle but sharp way might make a therapist feel internally intimidated, someone who is only superficially confident in his abilities and skill set. Might be why he says he would not work outside of the frame and why he withdraws parts of the therapy that he is not able to handle at this time. And what you said on another thread, that the T mostly keeps pointing out negativity in you just does not seem to compute for me, it does not seem to match the person who is making these posts

And boy do I hear you! But for me, it was once I mentioned how I liked or appreciated something she did, that's when she stopped. Gee, when I was a kid, anything I loved was taken away from me. My T is doing the same thing now....