Changes in boundaries from t

I have seen posts about arbitrary changes to boundaries by a t. Some of the most common seem to be between session contacts and touch. What other things have you seen, felt, or have had imposed on you that was a change in a boundary, either for "our own benefit" or because a t needed it for themselves?

I'm trying to prepare myself for worse possible scenarios here as I move to the 18 month mark with my t and have the worry/belief that she too will change in the name of helping me.

Just wanted to say that I worry about all this too. (Especially with T sort of removing e-mail for a bit). I told MC a while back that I was worried about it because of stuff I'd read on here. He told me that he really wished I didn't read these forums so much because they put worries like that in my head (and I already have plenty of worries!).

I guess one sort of boundary that MC changed was when I first started talking to him about the transference over a year ago, we had a couple individual sessions so I could talk to him without the awkwardness of H being there. At the end of the second session, he told me his door was always open to me, meaning like for future individual sessions. When I requested one a few months later, because I was struggling with transference stuff again, he told me no. We had a very difficult phone call about it, where he seemed to be rather harsh toward me, as I was sobbing. It felt like he'd given me this sense of security by offering me something, then took it away.

We discussed it a bit for the next few joint sessions, though I was tempted not to go back. I tried to press him on why he'd changed his mind, and he would say vague things like, "My opinion just changed." Which...that just made me wonder what else he'd change. And he never actually apologized, which was bothering me, because he's usually very quick to apologize for things. He finally, after several weeks, said that he never should have offered me future individual sessions in the first place. That as soon as he said it, he realized he'd made a mistake (both because he was concerned it would interfere with marriage counseling and with my individual counseling with T). That was what I needed to hear (still not sure if he apologized), and things improved after that.

Quick addendum--he is still opposed to any individual session with me, but is fine with phone calls, e-mails, and texts from me. And has said we can discuss anything in joint session, including my transference.

Regarding boundaries, I mostly had issues with one therapist and his handling between-sessions email communications and its purpose. He was quite dogmatic and our views often differed, but that's a different question. Did not have problems with any of my two therapists' boundaries in the actual sessions... but I am not a boundary pusher or breaker (more the opposite, I am sensitive to boundary transgressions and careful to not be intrusive etc); so never pushed them in that sense. My first T was very unstable in this regard himself and I had no issues whatsoever with the second. I was thinking though that some people mention the T's changing how much and what type of personal info they reveal about themselves and how much and what type of reassurance they provide to the client. Also how they handle session timing.

It's an ethics thing for a therapist to be working with someone as an individual and as part of a couple - there's a pretty clear conflict of interest in there.

I think my t has been tightening up her boundaries some lately, but surprisingly I'm ok with that... glad even... because I feel like I am too attached to her, and the subtle changes feel safe and good. I thought the changes i feel in our relationship were just coming from me, but I'm realizing part of it's coming from her in this way. We have not talked about them changing at all.

I know...but we'll also talk about some of my personal stuff in regular joint sessions with H. Because stuff that's affecting me can also affect our marriage. And it's given H a better understanding of how my brain works (H has said this). The times I've talked to MC individually (in session or on phone/e-mail/text) has generally been about me and my transference for him, not anything about H in particular. And if we do talk about something individually, I pretty much always share it with H on my own (like at home) or in session. Sometimes I just need to share it with MC first (because he won't judge whatever it is), if that makes any sense. And I think sometimes I'll tell MC something knowing I'll then need to tell H. So in some ways, I keep myself honest. I'll often tell H what it was even before our next session.

Though I know it's a convoluted way to go about it...

I guess my question was specifically what boundaries are changing or what is she doing differently that you attribute to boundary change

These stories of therapists making sudden changes make me sad. My therapist has always made clear his approach is aimed at enhancing my ability to take care of myself, but he has done this by explicitly increasing my awareness of ways I can do this. And he has remained constant throughout with his willingness to provide coaching outside of sessions. I have needed this less and less, but not because he has pulled away from me at all. I am just better at figuring out how I can push through whatever is stressing me.

It sounds sometimes like therapists don't get that they need to have conscious and explicit strategies to fill the gap or there is a chance that clients will be simply set adrift when the therapist arbitrarily decides it's time to give less support.

I'm sorry.

With my previous T, she mentioned that I used e-mail as a form of distancing myself from my emotions/I wasn't able to share in session (true), so she didn't actually say I shouldn't email, but I tried to email less. It never really got better (the ability to open up), so I eventually quit seeing that T.

With my current T (I've seen her for a year and a half), I was also worried that the email would be an issue with her. It took her many months to convince me that e-mailing her is okay, and not a burden to her at all. Just recently I wrote two emails in two days and felt like it was overkill, and apologized. She wrote back that she likes reading my writing, and to keep at it.

Also, I have always been able to be more open with this T than my previous, and am able to talk about what I bring up in email (she also prompts much more, and that is easier for me).

My T also hasn't changed any boundaries in the year and a half i've seen her. In fact, I was worried they were too loose at first.

Art, no need to apologize. And no need to share specifics if you don't want to or are unsure. It is ok. I can be literal in my needs because something like "tighten" or "changing" boundaries is very vague. At one point with my t, it seemed like she was less supportive or empathizing or something like that...I didn't think of it as a boundary change. I did wonder if it was a modality shift or a way of trying to get me to be more independent/grow skills. I'm glad that has shifted back.

T1 has tightened things up, and then loosened them, but always has talked to me about it, never been arbitrary. At one point I was often texting back and forth with him most of the day. I didn't like it when he said that we needed to stop doing texting sessions, but I did understand what he was doing and why. And I even agreed with him that it was problematic. I can email anytime I like, when he is on vacation he tells me if/ when he will be able to respond. The rest of the time, I know he checks email before ending the day's work, so if I email or text during normal hours, he'll get back to me same day. If after hours, then maybe he will respond to email, likely he will respond to text. I hav asked him exactly what is ok and exactly what I can expect because of my attachment issues. He is patient and always explains it again. Right now, I am pretty secure that he will answer as promised. I am coming up on seeing him for 10 years. Oh, and he says he will not terminate unless I stalk him or he becomes incapacitated. Of course I know he will retire some day. He is in his late 50s, and says he has no plans to retire soon.

But in terms of boundaries, he has never pulled the "I have decided" thing. Which is a very good thing for me.

My t is still trying to convince me that it really is ok to email her whenever. I'm still waffling on it. Like today I had a dental procedure and I kind of want to email her and let her know how it went. At the same time I'm like, I don't need to email her... I'm ok, and doing ok .. and does she even wonder or care. Sigh.

That has a sinister and controlling ring to it. The isolation and exclusivity of the therapy relationship is dangerous in my opinion. The client should be encouraged to learn what is going on outside their own therapy. For me reading accounts from clients was quite eye opening and necessary.

I also had a door-is-always-open betrayal. She offered this up to lessen the blow of termination, then withdrew the offer a bit later.

During therapy she withdrew emotionally somewhat, which was a sort of undeclared subtle boundary change, after I had divulged my feelings for her. Was like bait and switch. She encouraged me to do this, then behaved as it were a problem.

Lesson learned: boundary changes are almost always for the benefit of the therapist, but are sold as a benefit to the client.

I don't think it was sinister or controlling. I think it was more like, don't assume he's going to hurt/abandon me or change the boundaries just because other people's T's have. I feel like you have to really be able to trust a T to get something out of therapy.

You've made your views on therapy very clear throughout this forum, so I'm sure you'd say you should never trust a T. But if I'm just waiting for him or for my T to hurt me, then I don't see how that will help me either. It's one thing to be cautious, another to be afraid. (Not that I'm not afraid anyway...)

I'm sorry you had to go through this. I think T's often *think* they are doing it for the benefit of the client. I think many don't do it maliciously or selfishly. But maybe they realize they messed up, that their boundaries were too loose, that they allowed the client to be too dependent on them, etc....and then they overcorrect in order to fix it. Which ends up hurting the client.

I think the most important things are for a T to be aware of what they're doing and the impact it could be having on a client. And to be open with the client if they want to change something and to make the decision to change something together--not to have it be a unilateral decision by the T.

My T has changed boundaries a few times. First time was in the beginning of our relationship. She told ne she wanted me to call her any time I thought of SI'ing. Well, I did that next week, so I called her. She didn't help at all. Next time I saw her, she was frustrated and wanted to take away phone calls completely. I cried. It took that session and another one right afterwards to convince her to let me keep phone calls, but we changed it. Now I only call her when I've tried all my other coping skills first as a last resort. And she has improved on how to support me on the phone.

Another boundary change was actually an improvement. When I first met her, she told me no emailing or calling on the weekends. We for some reason talked about it a few months ago, and she said I can now email or call on the weekend just don't expect a reply on the weekend. There is a chance she might reply, but just assume she won't. (I still won't email on weekends though. Out of respect).

Sinister was probably too strong a word. To me trusting a therapist is an oxymoron. They don't give you enough information to trust them, but expect it anyway. Seems more like faith they are expecting. I wouldn't say never trust a therapist; rather I tend to trust only people who appear to be authentic and who are not motivated in their behavior by profit-seeking or other troublesome factors. Seems to me reading this forum would help with trust, because it gives the client a more rounded perspective.

Yes they do probably often assume their boundary setting and other controlling or punitive measures are benefitting the client. But i think there is a fine line between this and serving their own needs, such as the need to be right or to feel powerful in relationship with others, or to simply not be bothered by needy clients. And in some cases i think it is not about the client at all, it is blatantly self-serving.

I agree with Parva. I think ethically, your MC should NOT be seeing you privately. I honestly don't think he should be talking to you privately either. He is a therapist for you as a couple. You have an individual therapist for that. Maybe you wouldn't care, but how would you feel if your husband was talking to your MC without you? I could see sending him an Email with a list of things you want to discuss in session, as they come up, but I agree, he never should have agreed to meet with you individually. OTOH, my T would never see me and my spouse together, because T has been seeing me singly for so long. It's unequal ground for my spouse. I KNOW how transference hurts, but your T has to behave ethically for his clients, and in your case, that is your husband and you together.

This must be worrying for you Elio, has your t given you any clue that there will be a boundary change or do you just feel something is happening between you?
I noticed with ex t she would schedule me every second week and said she was too busy to see me every week and also when I would text her between sessions she would just reply can we talk about this when we meet again? Usually she would respond to my anger and welcome it. I noticed she was very burnt out and wasn't coping with her workload very well. It tainted our relationship after three years and lead to many ruptures. I remember how my t used to be and she was always available and would offer support between sessions but as she got busier her self care came first and she tightened her boundaries. This is a good thing for her but left me feeling abandoned and like I was a burden to be kept at a distance.