For a long time I have been aware of my fear of abandonment. However, until lately, I was not aware of how bad my fear of rejection is-- the fear of hearing "no."

I want to manipulate my T's answer so that he will accept a CD from me.

I have off from school next Tuesday. This Friday I want to ask him if I can come in on Tuesday as well, but I am afraid to ask.

(Warning-- the next one is really pathetic)

Two weeks ago the fan was on in session. It was oscillating back and forth and every time it would point in my direction my hair would go flying into my face and I would have to comb the hair out of my face. I was also chilly. And it was loud. But I was afraid to ask him if I could shut the fan. Finally he asked me, "Do you want to shut the fan?" (Probably because I kept yelling, "what??" and I looked like Cousin It). I said, "Yes." And he said, "Why didn't you just say something, or just turn it off?" I told him that I didn't want to ask.

I often don't ask my husband if he wants to do certain things or go certain places because I don't want him to say no.

Growing up, my mom was very overprotective of me. She had really bad anxiety and panic disorder-- so she was afraid to let me do anything. I hated to ask her stuff because I knew she would usually say no.

[sunrise]

pinksoil, I understand completely about not wanting to ask to have the fan turned off. I could see myself doing something like that. I hope you will be able to risk hearing "no" by offering him the CD. It could be a really empowering moment. Go for it!

I had kind of a similar experience in therapy yesterday, but I did good! Whenever I go to therapy, T offers me a bottle of water or else I help myself to one from his fridge. At an earlier point in therapy, he would often offer to make me tea. I really liked this and would often take him up on his offer, but not always. Sometimes we would drink tea together or sometimes just me. It was another way I felt taken care of by him. Anyway, I think it has been a few months since he invited me to have tea. I have wished a number of times he would offer me tea, but I felt I couldn't ask him to make me tea. It might inconvenience him or he might feel obliged when he really didn't want to or he might say no. The negative possibilities are endless, lol. So yesterday, I really wanted tea when I arrived. It was raining outside and I was feeling the edge of a caffeine headache seeping in. So when I arrived I asked him if I could have a cup of tea! I know it sounds dumb, but this was kind of a big moment for me. (I'm pathetic, I know.) He said, "I would love to make you some tea." And he got down on his knees (his kettle is on the floor), filled the kettle with water, searched for a tea bag for me, boiled the water, poured it over the tea bag, and then handed it to me. Man, how can a simple thing like that make me feel so good? I was really proud of myself that I was able to ask him for the tea.

pink, I feel really confident that if you give your T a CD, there will be a good outcome. And you know what? Even if he says "no," you can handle it!

[MissCharlotte]

I also am in the fear of rejection club. I think this whole first year with T has been filled with it. In the beginning I was afraid to call, afraid to ask for anything. The fear of rejection is related to an avoidance of feeling pain? That's what I told T once anyway. I remember when he once asked me why I don't just ask for what I need and I told him that if I expose myself then I open up the opportunity to get hurt. Yeah, it's been a running theme in my therapy. A few weeks ago I asked T for the extra sessions and i was terrified of him telling me he couldn't accommodate me. But he responded immediately with , "ok, let's go tuesday, thursday. I was shocked.

The next session we talked about how hard that had been for me.

Whew!

yeah, i'm in the fear of rejection club too. there is this central heating thing in the office where the heated air comes out of this vent in the ground. it makes a bit of noise. i think my t finds it a little hard to hear what i'm saying because he needs to translate my accent at times. there are some doozy translations betwen nz english and aussie english, too (e.g., the pronounciation of 'six' and 'sex' are reversed). could be embarrassing huh. so... he usually asks if it is okay for him to cover the vent with a cushion so it is quieter.

on fridays we have a session at 8am. the bus gets in at 7.35 or 7.40 so i have some time before i get to the session. because i'm a smoker... i sit outside in a cafe at the local shops. freezing my butt off drinking coffee. by the time i arrive for the session i'm feeling like an ice-block. and... some days... i really would prefer him not to cover the vent and try and speak more loudly / clearly instead. but of course i don't say anything. kind of get the impression that 'is it okay if i cover the vent?' is rhetorical.

but one day he noticed me shivering (i couldn't help it). and he seemed surprised that i hadn't said anything. part of it is that i don't want him to put himself out for me...

i find it hard to hear 'no' too... it was something that came up in DBT skills group. apparently a lot of people have trouble with appropriate asking. we had some guidelines for constructing a pros and cons list. figuring out how much what we wanted was a need or a desire and how strong the desire was. figuring out how much the other person would need to go out of their way in order to do what we wanted. that is supposed to help you figure out how assertive to be when you ask. and... to have some understanding of when it is okay to accept 'no' (because the person really can't do what is asked) and when it is understandable to be pissed off that they say 'no' (because our need is great and they really wouldn't be going out of their way much at all). it is hard, though.

[ECHOES]

(( pink ))

Yes, me too.

Afraid to ask for what I need, want. If I'm lucky enough to even know what that is...

I'm hoping therapy helps me find my voice in so many ways.

hugs

Wow. So a lot of us are in the fear of rejection club. I also hate to think that I might be putting someone out. Again, I believe this comes from my mother because she was (is) so extremely lazy and I always felt like I was being a bother when I would ask her something... she would act so put out, even if it was a little thing. Everything for her was (and still is) a major production. When I first met my mother-in-law (who I am now very, very close with) I would be afraid to go into her livingroom and talk with her because I didn't want to "bother" her. As it turned out she really wanted to talk with me and I ended up becoming closer with her than my own mother.

I am so afraid. I am afraid to say to T, "I have no school on Tuesday-- can I come here?" This is well after I have attended 2x per week on a regular basis-- and I am still afraid to ask for an extra session.

When I hear "no" I feel like a little kid. Or like a puppy who just peed on the floor. Tail between legs. I'm sorry I bothered you. I didn't mean to make you get up. :-(

I supposed I should talk with T about all of this.

[chaotic13]

I'm not sure if it has anything to do with fear of rejection but I rarely ask for things I want or need. This is especially true for emotional support or just help in general. I'm a little better with physical needs like warmth or a drink. I usually just try to suck it up and meet my needs myself when possible.

yeah, i feel ashamed when i ask for something and the answer is 'no' too. you know how there are lists of cognitive distortions that should be challenged? (ugh). well... here are a couple around this issue:

'if someone says 'no' then that means i shouldn't have asked'
'if someone says 'no' to a specific request that means they are rejecting me'

those are a couple that i remember anyway. of course, i don't think trying to challenge them / beat oneself up over them works to alleviate them. but it is worth thinking that they aren't true even if they FEEL true. just to be aware of it... so that one can attempt to act in spite of the feeling. and so that one can attempt to soothe the bad feeling with the reminder that it was okay to ask and that the person can still care very much even though they said 'no' and it was okay that they said 'no'... all at the same time.

that being said... its so hard that mostly i avoid asking...

Yes, that's it as well-- my ridiculous all-or-nothing thinking-- if T says 'no' that must mean that our entire relationship is ruined.

So how does that play out in my mind?

Me: Can I turn off the fan?
T: NO!
--Relationship over--

Right. If someone says 'no' to a specific request then that is for a specific reason-- they are not rejecting me as a person; all is not lost.

I am like you-- I just pretty much avoid asking. And I end up in therapy, freezing, hair blowing over my face, missing all the important things he's saying cause I can't hear him over the fan. Sure. No problem.

[smiley1984]

you could always exaggerate your body language by shivering LOTS or something to make him notice, because lets face it, males don't have great observation skills and need something to be very obvious for them to notice

we could... but that wouldn't be very direct now, would it?

[bluebutterfly]

Another club member here. Although I am trying to overcome this, I'm not so sure it can be done. I think when it is the way that you have always been, it is very hard to change.

I must admit that on the recent occasions I have actually asserted myself (calmly and quietly) it has paid off. Maybe just give it a try.


Peace

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
bluebutterfly said:
Although I am trying to overcome this, I'm not so sure it can be done. I think when it is the way that you have always been, it is very hard to change.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I think it's another thing to enact on the stage of therapy. We can practice and rehearse there. I was able to ask my T for a cup of tea, and it held this huge significance for me. Now maybe in the outside world, I'll be able to make a request too. I did it in therapy and it turned out well and now I can do it elsewhere too. Isn't that how it is supposed to go?

[FloweringHope]

[Mouse_]

Yes I think the basis of any mental illness is fear of abandonment either real or imagined. I couldnt say what i wanted in T for a long while, it was so bad that if T had asked me if I wanted something done, I would have said no even though I meant yes. Now if I see a book out of place, I tell her and then we talk about what that means to me...in the beginning before I knew why I was telling her about the books falling over or whatever, she would stand up and straighten them for me and there'd be that part of me watching her knowing that she is a person that takes care of things.

Now I don't need that assurance so much I know she does and also know that our hour together is more important than whats wrong in the room but it took a while for me to not need her to show my physically that she can take care of me..

I think I slightly went of topic there :-(

[confused4ever]

I have the fear of rejection and hearing the word NO. I will avoid asking for anything for me, because I don't want to hear that word. I have been known to sit, and shiver or be in pain if it means I have to ask someone to do something, even in my marriage I just started being able to just do it, if I am uncomfortable. I still very rarely ask for something. I know that comes from growing up and never being able to ask or talk to my parents or older siblings, because the answer I learned quickly was always NO, or shut up and leave me alone!

gosh, I am in this club too. I fear being alone, I fear people will not like me (tho I'm trying to overcome this by liking me and knowing I can't please everyone)I am terrified of rejection I think because a lot of people abandoned me when I was a child emotionally, i feel unworthy of love and wonder if it's all connected?

hugs to you all, Jinny xoxoxoxoxo

[pachyderm]

Me too. In fact I think it is inherent in our situations. I would be surprised if anyone here really did not experience it.

[Perna]

But, if you don't say anything, don't ask, it probably doesn't happen either? You can't get the fan turned off unless you turn it off or ask to have it turned off? Who would leave you cold and looking like Cousin It by saying "no" you can't turn off the fan?

I think it's something else? (Don't know what yet though, pardon the loud grinding noises as I think. . .)

Fact: CD you want to give your T

Scenarios: (1) You hand it to him, he drops it like he's burned, jumps up and starts shouting at you, "What the %#@&#! do you think you're doing you crazy *****!?

(2) You say, "I made a CD. . ." and just leave the situation dangling, not moving to get it from your purse to hand to him or anything, just looking at him expectantly, hoping he'll supply the "For me?" pleased/plesantant surprise ending.

(3) You say, "Here!" and thrust it in his belly like it's a gun and you're angry and he has to take it out of self defense.

(4) Your turn for 4, 5, and 6. Perhaps we can do all the possible scenarious there can be and you can "practice" and not have to be vulnerable.

(5)

(6)

[chaotic13]

5) You say, " Hey I made this CD and I would like you to have it." He says "Oh thank you I will listen to it the next chance I get." "Do you want to talk about what's on it or why you made it?"

6) You say, "Hey I made this CD and I would like you to have it." He says, "Sorry, I have strict rules about accepting gifts from patients. Thank you for thinking of me though." You say "OK, I just really wanted to share some of the stuff on the CD so you can have a better idea of how I am feeling so we can work on that."

You guys are awesome.

Perna, you are so funny-- I feel like you know me-- #3 is right up my alley and #1 is definitely something I would have come up with myself, lol.

#7 (worse case scenario)
Me: I made you this CD. Here.
T: I'm sorry. I have strict rules about accepting gifts from patients.
Me: Um, %#@&amp;#!-- you gave me some %#@&amp;#! gifts. How does that make sense?
T: What do you think?
Me: Shut the %#@&amp;#! up.

#8 (what will most likely happen)
Me: I made you this CD. Here. Just take it and shut the %#@&amp;#! up. I don't wanna talk about it, I don't want you ask me about it. Just take it and let's move on to something else.

#9 (the mature version)
Me: I made you this CD. You know how important music is to me and thought this would give you an even wider window into who I am and what is important to me. Each of these songs truly represents some aspect of me.
T: Thank you. Do you want to tell me some more about what's on the CD?
Me: Sure.

#10 (the ideal fantasy version)
T: Do you think you could make me a CD? I've been dying for you to give me a gift. I figured since we both love music, a CD would be appropriate. It would help me feel more connected to you.
Me: I'm sorry, I typically don't give gifts to my therapist. However, since you asked so nicely I supposed I could find some time in my busy schedule to copy at least a few songs for you.
T: You are fabulous.
Me: I know.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Perna said:

(2) You say, "I made a CD. . ." and just leave the situation dangling, not moving to get it from your purse to hand to him or anything, just looking at him expectantly, hoping he'll supply the "For me?" pleased/plesantant surprise ending.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

This is actually a pretty good representation of what goes on each week with my poetry. I say, "I brought a poem," but I refuse to move to take it out of my bag.

Last week I didn't even say, "I brought a poem." He said, "Did you bring me anything today?" and pointed to my bag on the floor in which there was a notebook jammed in there with some paper sticking out. I said, "Fine. Maybe there is a poem in there."

That would have been a great opening-- "Did you bring me anything today?" "Why yes I did-- in fact I brought a CD, you jackass."

[Milkyway]

I'm in this club too!!!

When somebody answers no, i feel that i'm the stupidest person in the world for asking this & feel that I must look soooooo very stupid....
I often notice that when someone else says X & is answered No, I feel that it was ok to ask, & this person is fine & nobody is shocked that "x has asked y" because it's them and they are normal, etc.. but when it's me asking, i dont feel the same...it's like I'd feel shocked to hear me asking x or y....

it's linked i think for me to the need to be approved, & i never dare doing even simple things for fear of looking stupid, like I remember when we were not in the usual office with T & the chair (kind of a big armchair) was i felt quite away from the other & T asked me if the distance was ok or i could move it...& though i really felt there was too much distance, i said "it's fine" ...i remember thinking how stupid I'd look moving things in this place..like it's not my place so i'm not gonna touch things...
but I got stuck at the next appt : the same chairs were a lot closer & this time i thought it would feel too close & she asked the same thing...but of course i said the distance was fine & it implied that i had been lying one time or the other... but i thought : i really cannot take this chair, pull it way across the room implying "yes it was really too close to you"....
As for emails to T, the other day, after spending 2 hours hesitating, shall i write or not? I got an idea I ve decided to send an email saying "i 've spent the last 20 minutes (what a liar--you can add at least 1hr!! <---hum, i didnt write that..) wondering if it was ok to send an email or not, so is it ok?"

I won't tell you how long it took me to actually manage clicking on "enter" to send the other one ..lol

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Milkyway said:
it's linked i think for me to the need to be approved, &amp; i never dare doing even simple things for fear of looking stupid, like I remember when we were not in the usual office with T &amp; the chair (kind of a big armchair) was i felt quite away from the other &amp; T asked me if the distance was ok or i could move it...&amp; though i really felt there was too much distance, i said "it's fine" ...i remember thinking how stupid I'd look moving things in this place..like it's not my place so i'm not gonna touch things...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

OMG YES. That is me. EXACTLY. I don't wanna look stupid and I feel like I don' t have the right to touch things. One time I sat in the big armchair and I realized it was sort of facing the left, way more than usual. And I wasn't really facing T, it was sort of diagonal. Do I move it? Of course not. I just dealt with it. There was no way I was going to move it because knowing me I'd end up tipping over the chair or something.

Here's another one that is really, really embarrassing to admit, but hey-- you all know I'm pathetic by now. I drink a lot of coffee and gatorade &amp; both drinks make me have to pee constantly. So very often in the hour and a half sessions I have had to pee really, really, really bad, but I just sit there holding it cause I don't wanna be like, "Can I go to the bathroom?" lol So last session I had to go so bad because I had drank so much water in preparation for starting the Lithium. It was only like a half hour into the session....there was no way I could take it for an hour more. So finally I handed him my to poem read and said, "My kidneys are exploding." And he said, "Does that mean you want to be excused?" lol and I'm like, "YEAH!" and I ran to the bathroom. Then I came back and I was hoping by that time he'd be done reading the poem but he was still reading so I'm just sitting there basically looking for some place to hide.

[chaotic13]

Milkyway,

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I ve decided to send an email saying "i 've spent the last 20 minutes (what a liar--you can add at least 1hr!! <---hum, i didnt write that..) wondering if it was ok to send an email or not, so is it ok?"

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Did you then check your email waiting patiently for a reply and not wanting to actually read it? I know I would have. Also telling myself the whole time ... you are such an idiot! What an ***.. you know he/she is going to say NO, hold your thoughts until we meet.