How would you feel if your t suggested all of your problems were because of choices you had made.
I find intimacy impossible and t said tonight but this is a choice. It’s not a choice I am making, it’s just what I need to do!
It makes me so mad when I hear therapists suggesting that someone has a choice in their misery. Sometimes they do but a lot of the time clients do the best the can in impossible situations.
What do you think?

[USMCBIPOLAR7]

I have some part in everything that happens to me or how I deal with it . Choice can be doing the best to make a bad situation better.

[LostOnTheTrail]

My previous counsellor made a remark in our first session that appeared to amount to the same thing. She heard a one sentence summary of my issue, and then offered the wisdom:

'And you can't just let this go?'

Throughout the course of our work I felt slighted and blamed for what I had been through, but now I am working with a much better person.

Originally Posted by LostOnTheTrail

My previous counsellor made a remark in our first session that appeared to amount to the same thing. She heard a one sentence summary of my issue, and then offered the wisdom:

'And you can't just let this go?'

Throughout the course of our work I felt slighted and blamed for what I had been through, but now I am working with a much better person.

I just had a brilliant trauma lecture today and the person delivering it said of people who say "Let it go" "IF THEY COULD THEY WOULD! DO YOU THINK THEY LIKE FEELING LIKE THIS?"

[confused_77]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

How would you feel if your t suggested all of your problems were because of choices you had made.
I find intimacy impossible and t said tonight but this is a choice. It’s not a choice I am making, it’s just what I need to do!
It makes me so mad when I hear therapists suggesting that someone has a choice in their misery. Sometimes they do but a lot of the time clients do the best the can in impossible situations.
What do you think?

i think that a lot of our circumstances are the result of our choices. recently my therapist told me something very interesting and obvious at the same time but it stuck with me. I have been very unstable recently with a lots of mood swings, ups and downs but i can pinpoint every single 'down' to an occurance in my life. i know why my mood changes occur and was trying to explain to her that i dont overreact that there is a reason why my mood changes to which she said: someone else in those circumstances might react in a much calmer way...
that is a bit off topic but yes we chose out misery a lot of the times. things happen to people and some pick themselves up, others struggle. its a choice we have everyday.

[maybeblue]

I think that sometimes bad things happen to us that we can't control. I also think that sometimes we were not taught things that we should have learned as young children, or weren't loved enough or cared for enough. Those early experiences caused us to learn behaviors or emotions that may have worked well for us then, but no longer does. None of that was our fault. However, I also believe that nobody else is going to be able to change our misery for us. We have to learn to make new choices and learn some of the skills we should have learned when we were children now as adults. And it's hard. But I guess I like the feeling that I'm responsible for myself now better than believing that I'm always going to be a victim.

[Out There]

I wouldn't be happy for a T to say that to me. We don't choose abusive parents or whatever has caused issues. We do have choices on how to deal with the things that have happened and the issues. I wouldn't find that helpful and can't imagine either of my T's saying that. Sometimes things are impossible , so we may choose not to continue ( I've found it impossible to continue a friendship for instance ) which is a choice. No doubt some people would like to tell us our choices are wrong though.

[atisketatasket]

I don’t think trauma is a choice, just like nobody chooses to get cancer.

I do think we bear responsibility for doing something about our habits and patterns if they are negatively affecting us. If someone is always falling for unsuitable and unavailable people, or constantly loses all emotional self-control and alienates those around them, for instance, and they know it’s a pattern but don’t do anything about it, that is a kind of choice.

The key is knowing there’s a problem and having an idea how to solve it but passing up that opportunity.

What happens to us is not a choice. What we do is. If nothing is a choice, then it’s OK for anyone to do anything they like.

[unaluna]

Thanks for all of your responses- they have all given me lots of food for thought.
I am a firm believer in if we are aware of our choices and circumstances, yes, of course we can chose but if we are not aware or acting out of our unconscious then we can’t possibly be held responsible.
I think that because of my phenomenology and my environment being single is not a choice, it’s a survival technique and t really has no idea or understanding because she has a family, a husband etc, etc.....

[Fernwehxx]

Trauma isn't a choice. However, the way we deal with anything is at least partly a choice, in my opinion. That doesn't mean were always fully aware of our choice or that we can easily choose an alternative, tho.

I make choices due to past trauma every day.
I have problems with intimacy.
I don't like some of the choices I make (well, quite a few, or a lot...).
I know I make some choice out of spite and probably just to treat myself badly, and I know it's because I don't think I deserve better.

I wonder where your T went from that statement. Just the statement alone would have made me angry (maybe exactly because I know it's true, who knows). If expect more from a T than just a statement like this.
My spoyse usee to tell me that a lot, and I could've slapped him,in the face for it every single time. It just made me mad, even after I had realized, yes, every single thing I do is my choice becayse I could act differently....

Does this make sense?

There's a reason why we choose to act a certain way, and its a long road to figure it out sometimes, and maybe and even longer one to find alternatives.

[Wonderfalls]

That's an easy way out for the therapist. All they have to do is convince you that everything is your fault. There was a post on a different forum I was reading, a reply to someone very depressed. Her response was: get out of bed, shower, get dressed, clean your apartment, and then go for a walk. Hello? If you could pull all that off then you're definitely not all that depressed.

[Out There]

That may be a good observation Mona. My EMDR T has just done some training with Robin Shapiro ( she's not everyone's cup of tea but I like her ) we tried a few techniques this week with good results , so things that might seem impossible ( like intimacy ) may become possible. So much is in that primitive area of the brain in survival and coping mechanisms.

[here today]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

Thanks for all of your responses- they have all given me lots of food for thought.
I am a firm believer in if we are aware of our choices and circumstances, yes, of course we can chose but if we are not aware or acting out of our unconscious then we can’t possibly be held responsible.
I think that because of my phenomenology and my environment being single is not a choice, it’s a survival technique and t really has no idea or understanding because she has a family, a husband etc, etc.....

I agree, and think this is important.

There is something in me that is aware when I have a choice, and when I don't. It is phenomenonological, as you said. Nobody else can really know that. For instance, I have some flashbulb memories of trauma situations when I was a child, and I was aware that "I", or my nervous system, was shutting down/off some feelings. There was a "choice" then maybe, in that I think maybe I could have stopped the shutting down, but why would I have then? I didn't have any knowledge of the consequences. It seemed like a good way out of a difficult/intolerable situation at the time.

However, once the dissociation got entrenched and automatic, then I didn't have that "choice" anymore. Until, in some instances, the trauma memory was retrieved/relived and then a "choice" to have those feeling emerged again. Not in the past, of course, but in the present and going forward.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by Wonderfalls

That's an easy way out for the therapist. All they have to do is convince you that everything is your fault. There was a post on a different forum I was reading, a reply to someone very depressed. Her response was: get out of bed, shower, get dressed, clean your apartment, and then go for a walk. Hello? If you could pull all that off then you're definitely not all that depressed.

I don’t think reminding someone they have choices (not talking about OP’s therapist specifically here, just generally) is the same as saying, “everything is your fault.” It’s not blame or criticism; it’s a truth that we do have choices, maybe more than we think, and we should remember that. But with choices come responsibility—again, not the same as blame, fault, or criticism.

And depending on what one is in therapy for, one might well benefit from being reminded that we have choices. No therapist blamed me for staying with an abusive husband, but they did remind me that I had choices—maybe I wasn’t strong enough to make them yet, but when I was I should remember there was a choice. And that was a very helpful thing to hear and recognize. In scenarios like that I think it is beneficial for the therapist to remind the clients that there are things they can make choices about. They are not helpless.

[stopdog]

I tend to go more with the idea I have a lot of choice. For example -I did not choose for my person to die or to have the massive grief that I have around her death, but I do choose what I do around that grief.

[AllHeart]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

How would you feel if your t suggested all of your problems were because of choices you had made.
I find intimacy impossible and t said tonight but this is a choice. It’s not a choice I am making, it’s just what I need to do!
It makes me so mad when I hear therapists suggesting that someone has a choice in their misery. Sometimes they do but a lot of the time clients do the best the can in impossible situations.
What do you think?

I do not feel like the statement that all of one's problems are because of choices they made is a fair one. It is partially true, but, there certainly are loads of circumstances to which one cannot avoid or has no control over making a so-called harmful choice that will cause problems in their life, obviously.

I actually do believe that someone does have the choice to be miserable or not, at some point. I am not saying someone has the choice to 'flip a switch' and magically be happy, or function "normally." The choice starts by choosing to work towards making the effort to change what doesn't work for us. It can take a helluva long time, and is a helluva lot of hard work to change our thought patterns.

That statement about choices used to piss me off also. It was my reaction to the resistance of having to deal with the terrifying fear my past taught me to be comfortable in (or so I thought). So in truth, I was choosing to let my past define me and be miserable. Lord knows I still fall victim to it. I do find hope in knowing that I have the choice to do something to help myself get out of it (victimhood) while giving myself credit for knowing I am doing my best to continue to work towards change.

If only it were so easy!
15% of the country I live in would not be on an antidepressant.

We do have choices...within our limitations.

A blind man can't choose to be an Air Force pilot.

It gets real ugly, real fast, when people think others' choices are absolute instead of relative. Just because I have college degrees, doesn't mean the nondegreed person growing up living in a grass hut made a choice not to educate himself. I think the same goes for impulse control and other mental or emotional limitations.

I do find this inspiring:

Society likes to use all sorts of labels to describe the good fortune of successful people. Some of them are positive, like making your own luck and being gifted, while others are derisive, as in being in the right place at the right time or growing up with privilege. But the truth is, with rare exception, it always comes down to making good choices.

What does that mean for you? Sadly, I think it means doing things that far too many of you are not doing.

It means spending your time on things that matter – focusing on the big picture and the long run instead of giving in to instant gratification. It means facing up to your responsibilities and holding yourself accountable. It means doing the right thing instead of following the path of least resistance. And it means living within your means.

It means being willing to step outside your comfort zone and face your darkest fears. It means putting your butt on the line and taking big risks when it would be so much easier to fall into a safety net. Mostly, it means not giving in to the status quo or popular groupthink and having the courage to carve your own path
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/244428

(Except for the first paragraph, which is more grandiose than not.)

[awkwardlyyours]

I hear the message about having choices as something related to behaviors and not feelings / emotions.

I can't choose how I feel about something -- I feel what I feel.

But, I can choose to start acting differently despite (or maybe, because of) that feeling / emotion.

I think the choice / no-choice dichotomy comes up because a lot of times we get stuck on the idea that we can only act / behave differently when we feel differently (enough to make the behavior change). And, obviously dealing with a traumatic history can take time and consequently, feelings / emotions can take a really long time to shift.

But, in reality -- as most folks have experienced at some point or the other -- taking action even before one feels ready / motivated to do so can change how one feels about it. So yes, a traumatic history can predispose one to more easily fall into certain emotional traps but one still has choices in what can be done with it.

Else, in the absence of choice, it feels almost impossible to consider ever getting past trauma -- E.g. going to therapy to deal with crap that happened is itself a choice.

I also think the choice question can get really hairy really fast when talking about it with respect to trauma because one could easily say that the people who abuse were also (almost, by definition) those who were abused.

But, not all those who were abused become abusers themselves -- what made the difference? One can obviously not pinpoint any one specific thing but I'd be hard-pressed to say that somewhere along the way, folks' choices about what to do didn't play a significant role.

[1stepatatime]

[QUOTE=monalisasmile;6002066]How would you feel if your t suggested all of your problems were because of choices you had made.
I find intimacy impossible and t said tonight but this is a choice. It’s not a choice I am making, it’s just what I need to do!
It makes me so mad when I hear therapists suggesting that someone has a choice in their misery. Sometimes they do but a lot of the time clients do the best the can in impossible situations

I don’t think people like living in misery but when we have been groomed by our caregivers sometimes it’s really hard to change a behavior.. sometimes it’s our unconscious that causes behaviors, not trying to say we’re not accountable because at the end of the day we’re adults and we have to be accountable. But choosing to change a behavior or action might take a lot of reflection and hard work. I’m trying to navigate my way through my own stuff. Thankfully my therapist hasn’t told me “ it’s a choice” to change something or not.. it’s just isn’t that simple.

[satsuma]

I can see how thinking about the choices we have can be empowering. But if T said this in the context of therapy I would experience it as being somewhat accusatory and critical. And as others have said, over-simplifying the issue.

I want T to understand just how hard I am trying and have tried in life, particularly to overcome things which are complete non-issues for others who don't struggle with the same things (people I consider to be normal/acceptable). In that context, if T pointed out that my problems or problematic behaviours were choices, I would think - T doesn't get it at all.

But thankfully this hasn't happened

[unaluna]

And thats why some of us work with a t, to be able to change things that feel like survival issues into simpler matters of choice. Like my almost paranoid reluctance at the beginning of my therapy to accept a glass of water from my t, that has over the years changed to my usually providing my own water, and sometimes offering him a sip of my specialty coffee drink and him taking it.

I find intimacy impossible and t said tonight but this is a choice. It’s not a choice I am making, it’s just what I need to do!

I think some therapists say something to rattle you up as an 'intervention', to try to undo defenses.

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

Thanks for all of your responses- they have all given me lots of food for thought.
I am a firm believer in if we are aware of our choices and circumstances, yes, of course we can chose but if we are not aware or acting out of our unconscious then we can’t possibly be held responsible.
I think that because of my phenomenology and my environment being single is not a choice, it’s a survival technique and t really has no idea or understanding because she has a family, a husband etc, etc.....

A T they has had training and analysis themselves has insights and understanding of issues no matter what their personal circumstances are.

Even a student T would have some understanding that a clients history needs being looked at to put perspective to their choices in the here and now.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

Thanks for all of your responses- they have all given me lots of food for thought.
I am a firm believer in if we are aware of our choices and circumstances, yes, of course we can chose but if we are not aware or acting out of our unconscious then we can’t possibly be held responsible.
I think that because of my phenomenology and my environment being single is not a choice, it’s a survival technique and t really has no idea or understanding because she has a family, a husband etc, etc.....

I think this made a difference in my therapy. I cant say for sure, but up until my current t, it seemed my ts could not relate to my hostile family situation. They were always like, so what? You dont know what its like to have no ground beneath you until you jump out of an airplane. When i found a t whose mother died when he had barely started school, i finally found someone who understood having the rug pulled out from under you. His was one major time, mine was multiple smaller episodes.