intense session

it was a long session. i have been having a lot of heart problems and had just got out of the hosp Wednesday. and this was thursday. i was so completely anxious after the surgery i had .i sat down and instantly my T knew that something was wrong . she asked me and i started to panic and cry. i couldnt respond so she started to tell me to talk to her and to not just sit there crying . i asked her to give me a minute to collect myself. she said no that she wanted me to talk to her as i am upset .that it was ok and i needed to let her know what was going on .she was raising her voice again so it made me even more anxious. i was sobbing and she just pushed me more .

i told her about how i have been panicking ever sense i got out of hosp. i explained what was going on with my heart and how i need to make a lot of changes but at this point i just dont care. im tired and just feel like crap. she brings up the fact that i have been talking with the mother again and that she sees that this is what is contributing to my deteriorating health. she says the mother is toxic to me and will eventually kill me if i keep playing around with talking to her . i cant deal with this at all .i dont want to so i know im just hiding in myself .i dont want to talk to her any more . again she insist that i need to start talking to her about the mother ,the brother and farther ,the horror show of a mother.i still didnt want to talk .i didnt want to deal at all i wanted to just run and my T was so angry at me .

she asked me why in the heck did i start communicating with the mother again . i just couldnt answer her . i dont know why .i tried to tell her that and she said bull sh!tyou need to talk to me and yo know why .she then asked me how long have i been talking to her . she was so angry.sh asked if i had ever really stopped talking to her . she was so upset she kept saying that she couldnt believe that she didnt see this coming . she wanted me to understand so badly how toxic she felt the mother was . i was so upset all i could do is cry . she would ask me if i could see how being in contact with her was killing me .she also said that i was lying to her about being in contact with her and that she couldnt trust what i say to her anymore about the mother . she asked me if i was so suicidal at this point that i would keep from her how bad things had gotten and how far back i have gone . i just wanted to run out of there . i was scared and upset. i couldn't speak and she kept demanding that i do but i couldnt i grabbed my stuff and got up and she shouted for me to sit back down that i was not going to leave the office .but i coldnt give her what she wanted and she would ask me why am i coming to see her if im not going to talk to her .

she started talking about how she had not seen how bad things had got .she thought that we were moving forward and doing ok . she said that it was probably what she wanted to see . but that i am literally killing myself and she missed it .she started to cry at this point .that completely freaked me out even more. i felt so bad for her . i had not lied to her but she would not believe me .she just didnt seem to remember me talking to her about conversations i had with the mother . she wanted me to talk,to look at her .she kept raising her voice to get me to look at her . but i couldnt move . she said that she thinks she was going to need to do something drastic .she wanted to call my husband and have me put in the hospital because i was not thinking straight .

again she started to cry saying again that she sees me killing myself right in front of her and she doesnt know what to do .she doesnt know how to save me .she said she cares about me and it is breaking her heart to see what i have been doing to myself and she had no idea . it was like i had all this stuff going on and she just let me sit there talking about crafting . she accused me of spending all this time pretending .and all this time i was being so self destructive. she said it isnt about my bad diet and having my diabetes be so out of control,or the exercising and following up on my heart condition. sh said it is getting to the root of why i dont care and feel that i dont deserve to live . why im listening to the mothers voice in my head telling me she wishes i was dead . she said that it is time i started to deal with this stuff. she said she knows it is hard and so painful but now that she is aware of how bad things have gotten that she cant let me pretend any more. she kept saying things like now that she knows the truth etc...

i told her she needed to get over being so upset at me . this only made her more upset .she raised her voice again saying that she did not and what did i expect.of coarse she is angry. all this time and i didnt expect that she would go ballistic . she said i needed to start talking or she would contact my husband and have me brought to the hospital . she said we need to start dealing with this stuff but i was so paralyzed. she was crying again saying that she had no idea how to get through to me at all . she was talking and talking and i couldnt respond i just wanted to calm down i knew eventually i was going to have to leave or she was going to put me in the hospital .

she asked me again why i had started talking to the mother again .i said guilt .she said it back to me .GUILT of course you felt guilty .did you think it wold be all cake and roses .did you think it would be easy . its hard as hell and yes you feel guilty .but it is at the point that you need to make a choice .guilt or living .you keep in contact with the mother it will kill you .that woman it evil . she killed your brother and now she doesnt care if what she does to yo will eventually kill you as long as she gets what she needs from you . she doent love you she cant love you and if you continue to go down this road it will kill you and i dont know how to stop you and it is breaking my heart to see you do this to your self. you have survived so much ,accomplished amazing things against all odds and im watching you just throw it all away for the hope of a good mommy that is never going to happen . she asked if i would rather be dead than to deal with the pain of not having the mother who loves me .

i am so confused and in so much pain. sometimes do do feel i would rather choose death than feeling the debilitating guilt that i feel around the mother and also my brother . again i kept quiet because i didnt want her to put me in the hospital . she said we needed to make a plan. what was i going to do next. i have no freaking idea .she said she would not be a good therapist if i let you keep pretending . she had kept me there for over an hour and a half. she was ready to let me go so i just left .numb and so tired .i know she really cares about me but that scares me a lot .

Oh granite that sounds so difficult... I wish I had words that could help. Just know that my heart goes out to you and all the love and good positive light energy I can send. You are so brave and so strong. Pls take care of you.

Yes , please take care of you Granite. Unfortunately I too had a Mother like that , we so want them to be what we need.

(((Granite))) i know it doesnt feel real or possible.

Granite, that sounds so, so awful.

Granite, PLEASE stop seeing this woman! She does not know how to help you heal your trauma. She is trying to REASON with an activated trauma response and she doesn't even seem to know that this is impossible. She is harming you because of what she doesn't know. She isn't doing it deliberately. She genuinely wants to help you. She just doesn't know that her skill set is inappropriate for your trauma.
Please, please, please find a therapist who is highly trained and experienced in treating trauma. Such a person will be able to help you.

Granite! I am so sorry to hear things have been so awful I"ve been worried about you.

I agree with this. I have given your T the benefit of the doubt a LOT over the years. SHe is in way over her head and it is re-traumatizing you. It is not okay.

I'm sorry you are going thru this Granite. It difficult for me to understand what your therapist is doing.

Oh Granite that sounds horrible. You have to be strongest person I know.

In all honesty when I had my appointment last week with T, you were the person I thought about. I felt my T was angry at me because of something I said. I knew it was T but I felt like I could hear my mom being angry. Sadly I only remember my mom bring an amazing mother. But I was afraid to talk becausr it would make her/My mom madder.

My T had gone to classes on neuroscience and therapy a few days before. I wonder if this is a technique that was taught in order to rewire the brain....it suck. Reading you posts makes me really mervousbto see my t next week.

I am so sorry that happened. Frankly if you decide to see your mother she has no right to tell you that you can't. You are the one who gets to decide if you want your mother in your life. And there is absolutely no reason for a therapist to ever yell and be angry like that. That in itself is traumatizing. Find another therapist, just for a second opinion if nothing else.

I disagree that you should stop seeing this t. I am sorry you stay away from us. I guess your family has some kind of financial hold on you that makes it impossible for you to break away from them. I am probably projecting - thats the main thing that kept me attached. But thats something my family and i manipulated from both sides.

If it can be made "just" emotional, then i agree with your t, granite. Its your mother or your life.

How can we help?

I agree with Amjay. This does not sound like a healthy dynamic to me. She seems overtaken by her own feelings in response to your situation. Yes, she will have feelings, but when she is overwhelmed she can't really focus on you, it seems like. And with all this going on it seems to me you do need the help and support of someone who can focus on you.

For me, unfortunately, I've found support groups more helpful than individual therapists for this kind of dilemma. Have you looked into Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families? They started out just as Adult Children of Alcoholics but found many issues apply to people raised in just dysfunctional families, too.

It has helped me a lot to know I'm not alone in my caretaking, codependency, lack of sense of self and self-care, etc. They have online meetings, too, if there aren't any in your area. Just a thought. PM me if you'd like more info.

Best of luck to you!

Una, you have been on this forum as long/longer than me...you know what granite has tried with this T. I do agree that it is her mother or her life, but no matter what, a T should not force the issue on her, ESPECIALLY when she is obviously very upset.

I think Granite has tried VERY hard for a VERY long time with this T. I understand in some respect, as I tried and tried to the best of my ability with my last T. In a 5.5 year relationship, I probably should have left less than a year in. Not because she was bad, or incompetent, or not caring--just because it wasn't working. Mine wasn't necessarily as trauma-oriented issues as Granite, but the bottom line is that this T is not helping Granite any longer.

Granite, could you possibly try and research a couple of trauma T's? I know you said your T is trained in trauma, but maybe she is stuck too much in her own ways. She hasn't really tried to branch out with you. My (current) T has, and I don't even have any major trauma. She has tried suggesting many other things than what she can offer, because she wants to help.

And all the crying? A little disconcernting. I believe she cares, and I never have thought otherwise. But if my T started crying at my lack of improvement, or my will to die, or my relationshiops to my family that she doesn't agree with? I would RUN the H out of there. I have talked to my T very candidly about my SUI feelings. She has never acted emotional about them at all. Even covertly, like not taking care of myself. She knows if she pushes me on any of those topics, I would run and lose trust.

Your T should really know these things. I really wanted her to work for you, but I don't think it has all been bad. You have come a LONG way since you began with her. You used to spend session after session, after session in silence. For months. Years?

NOW: you are able to tell her what is making you upset, even though you are triggered and everythign is overwhelming and scary. I hope you see what a huge deal that is. That is an amazing improvement.

Though, I really am worried about you, and your health. It only seems to have gone downward, and I understand the "I don't care what happens to me" feeling, believe me. But, you are a fighter. You don't see it, I know. Just know I can see it, and believe it.

Maybe just consult a few other Trauma T's? EMDR (PLEASSSEE), Somatic, or someone who seems a little more flexible with their approach. Go in and say what you are feeling about your relationshiop with your current T. Tell this person that you feel like she yells at you, that she seems over-emotional, that she threatened to commit you when you weren't explicitly suicidal (unless you were, and you haven't told us)...etc.

I care for you, greatly.

I would agree, EXCEPT that this past week, working with my same ol t, i was able to look at my situation with my mother like from a completely different perspective. Just by pushing thru a little and talking. A breakthru. I wrote about it in trailrunners current thread of what is love.

Granites post sounds to me like she hears what her t is saying, and she (granite) is acknowledging what she (again granite) has been doing. Yeah it kinda sounds like a knockdown fight. Wrestling with her demons or whatever. But thats what it is - it IS an internal conflict. We want A and we want B. But only one of those things is under our control. We cant have both. We have to choose. Another t only delays us making the decision.

Eta - so yeah we (different pc members) are looking at different parts of the elephant.

Granite, I’m sorry you are having so many struggles. We are here. I care about you.

Hey Granite, I'm so sorry you struggle so much, this seems like a truly retraumatizing experience.
I don't know about your history with this T. But from what you wrote, she doesn't seem very professional to me. Her behavior would make me extremely anxious.
I hope your health issues will improve and that you'll find inner strength and all the support you need to solve your relationship with your mother.
Good luck!

it was confusing with her raising her voice and all .but she was crying because she wanted to help me and didnt know how to reach me and she doesnt want me to keep killing myself. she said she cares about me and it is breaking her heart . she has not expressed ever how much she cares about me . i know a lot of clients get upset because T wont say they care about them . to me it was never a big deal . but she was so upset about everything . she must care .

i don't think anyone is disputing that your T cares. It is evident she does, and to me, it is evident she always has. The problem is that I don't think she knows how to handle severe trauma/abuse, and it is hurting you more

Granite, I know your T cares very much.

However I don't know if she's equipped to treat the extreme severe abuse you've been through. It's torture, you were tortured as a child. That kind of abuse is systematic and calculated to destroy and needs a therapist skilled in treating severe complex trauma.

She cares. She really does care. She really wants to help you. She has worked with you for several years now and she genuinely wants to help you heal. She wouldn't have cried if she didn't care. (At the same time Ts can care very deeply about a client without crying.)
She wants the best for you.
Also, I wonder if her tears are expressing her frustration at herself for not being able to help you better. She so much wants to help you more than she is.