Two years of no contact

An ex-T was a MFT, she allowed me to write her once a year to update her. I did it for 10 years, but sadly the last year she didn't respond But I figured enough time had passed to let her go. Current T will allow me to contact her whenever I "need" to until she moves, retires, or dies. Once she retires, I can contact her a couple times a year for updates, and see her maybe once a year. However, she's made it clear that we can never be friends. She feels the boundaries would get too muddy and one or both of us will get hurt.

DP, I just wanted to say I'm sorry you're having to go through this. I have followed your story since I started coming here a few months ago, whenever I check in here.

The fact that you feel the desire to comfort him or take care of him in any way, and that you have felt the push and pull of so many mixed messages coming from him over time, shows that he was not a responsible therapist and that he took advantage of your caring, giving nature. I don't know the whole story, but I assume he's leaving therapy because he knows it's the wrong place for him, and he knows he has crossed the line. In my mind, you have every reason to file a complaint against him. You shouldn't have to hurt like this. A therapist shouldn't drain you like this.

Like you said about your dog, the only thing that's going to mend this loss is time. It's great that you have so many good things coming up like a class and traveling, etc. You may never forget him or how he made you feel, but in time, you won't feel the same way, and it won't be so raw, and you will have bigger and better places and people to focus your energy and your care. You have a big heart, and it deserves more than what this situation brought you.

I hope I haven't said too much, but I send my words from a place of caring, and because I know how it feels to be used in this way when you are a sensitive, giving person.

I could but I would not. It's not the kind of person I am.

Yes, life can for sure change, I mean, I'm almost at my 2 yrs since I started therapy and a lot has happened in my life. However, I am not ever gonna rule out seeing him again, even if its just once.... time will tell if we will see each other again or not.

I used to have an old teacher I kept in touch with for years.... he died but we probably would have still keep in touch and I barely knew anything about him.

I don't mind your post, it wasn't bad or anything, everyone is welcome to share their thoughts here. None of us know how it will pan out.

DP I definately understand what you are saying. When T moved I was so afraid she was going to retire. I feared never to talking to her again. Like you we disnt have a typical therapy relationship. There were lots of out boundaries and dual relationships. At one point she asked me to do something outside therapy and I questioned it. She apologized and said she was sorry because she was treating me ss a friend and at that point it wasnt a good idea. I always wondered if some day we would actually be friends

I’m confused about the filing a complaint part - what would be the grounds? The therapist is acting in a responsible, ethical manner here.

I can relate to this bc I was a teacher in a boarding school in which we had our advisees for years, coached ,taught, lived, played, and worked together as a community. Some kids we truly loved, but at the same time after graduation there was a natural letting go, a bittersweet sense that it was time for them to fly, and we had work to do in the present, with the next generation. I comfort myself with that as far as my T goes, bc like you, I seem to love him. I know though that he is in a caretaker role to me, a helping profession role, and he isn't going to bond to me in that way. I do believe he cares about me here and now, while we are doing work, but if I left he would continue doing this work, his work with others and let me go. I do believe your T bonded with you and connected with you when you were there together working with one another and communicating privately. It is just that in these unequal relationships, it would be hard to change the dynamic and become regular friends. He might have a sinking feeling about how he performed in this job, or some difficult discovery process into himself or anything like that that might make him want to move on from this time. That wouldn't reflect on you, or his caring for you. Like the never-ending story , that time can't be taken away, even though it is unlikely to go on again in two years.

One of the real sadnesses here is that he robbed you of the opportunity to work on your self-development and that these insecurities and personal pains were left ignored in preference for "fun" in sessions. I think one of the reasons you are in so much pain now is that he didn't prepare you for the ending. More than not giving you enough notice and not handling the ending with kindness, he never worked with you on helping you develop the skills and inner resources to cope with endings, abandonment, grief, etc.

I suspect he simply doesn't know how to deal with endings. I think he is using the two year rule as a way to brush your pain under the carpet and postpone the uncomfortable prospect of dealing with your sadnesses and needs associated with the relationship. Basically, he is way out of his depth and as a result you are left hurting and hoping for answers, resolution, contact.

I read in interest partly because your situation has similarities to mine. I am sorry this is so painful.

It’s hard to find anecdotes online of friendship after therapyand are there instances where it works out? Maybe people don’t post good news because it is less dramatic than a sad tale.
I personally have glimpses of how t would be in real life vs therapy. His messiness as a person. Like you id be ok with a lot of it. I understand that post therapy they can’t serve the same purpose as they did before.

Any success stories anyone wants to share? Some success stories people have mentioned here were really good because it makes it seem less magical and more real life and frankly less exciting than we think it will be.

He completely admitted all that. He told me he had no idea how to help me and he didn't know what he was doing. He told me that we "didn't spend enough time on the self worth or relationships" He is aware of that... I am also ok with it because at the same time, with my avoidant nature, I didn't WANT to work on that stuff. I know he didn't help me much at all in a therapy sense, he's a terrible therapist, I have often said that, but he's a fantastic person and we clicked... that is what kept me coming back. I didn't see him as "Just a T" so it was easy for me to keep this thing going and he no doubt had feelings as even up to the end, he was doing things with me that he probably shouldn't. I called him out on all that too, saying he, did a lot of things with me he should not have and he quickly seemed scared and said "I never crossed boundaries, only pushed them, I did those things because you asked me to"

I just like the man I got to know all those months, the man I clicked with. I didn't NEED therapy in that sense, just having that relationship, was everything in getting me through my dog's death.


Yes, please. Anyone? It can't ALL be bad....

Yes, correct, in the 2 year sense he is. The comment was made about how he handled me while I was a client though, he had terrible boundaries and it very much was friend like.... there was so many things he did with me, I can't even share here because of how much people would freak out.

You are mistaken if you think that relationships forged within a therapeutic context can be neatly categorised as success stories or positive experiences.

Several years into my relationship with a medical professional who had been involved in my psychiatric care, I would have told you that it was a liberating, fun, exciting and an interesting experience. A success! Now, more years down the line, I can see it for what is was: exploitative, abusive, unethical and very unsafe. It has taken me this long to fully understand the dangerous nature of that relationship because transference is a powerful distorter and transference is always present in a client/professional relationship.

Well there is successes, but like growly said, most people with good stories are not gonna go ramble on forums about them. I'm not mistaken anything. People are people. Some people see things differently... not everyone would see things as abusive or whatever.

I've seen google articles about people who have even married former therapists... it happens. Maybe not often but its not all doom and gloom. That's insane to assume that's the ONLY outcome

I agree there may be many stories of success with developing another kind of relationship with ex-Ts. Maybe not so much here on PC given that people mostly post here about challenges and pain, but out there. I personally know two people who developed close relationships with an ex-T - in one case they got married and have been happily married for nearly 10 years now, and in the other case they were kinda loose friends for a while and then just drifted apart. Given that I know the people involved, I can say all of them are reasonably well-adjusted, they don't tend to struggle with dependencies, and have fulfilling lives in- and outside of those relationships with the ex-T. I also have a good friend who is an ex-addict like myself and he had many therapists throughout his life but none of them very long-term. He has one that was more like a friendship and they stayed in touch for a while on social media. He also had one that he found very attractive physically and talked with her apparently a lot like he talks to me, but would never allow himself to engage in those fantasies much and stopping seeing the T was not a problem at all. What I have not heard of is a client that had the kinds of intense attachments and associated cravings and pain many people describe here and developed a satisfying causal connection or good friendship with the ex-T. I also read here on PC ex-client and ex-T engaging in a shared hobby for a while and nothing earthshaking.

I do not believe that the so-called power differential of therapy will inevitably lead to failures and pain in subsequent non-therapy relationships - actually I believe I could do it satisfying myself with someone like my last T if I wanted to and had the opportunity. I think it is a combination of clients with certain predispositions and insecure, irresponsible ex-Ts (not simply irresponsible as a T but not really okay themselves as people) that tend to lead to those bad and hurtful stories. Those stories usually describe stuff where the ex-T took advantage of the ex-client and was clearly very messed up, which can be hard to foresee. Not taking the risk will not lead to that type of experience. I would at least take a look at my interpersonal history - if it is packed with obsessive, imbalanced, abusive etc relationships, I would say there is probably a high risk with that possibility. If someone is not prone to that, I imagine an ex-T, simply by being a T for a while to the person, will not make an outstanding difference although it is not impossible. I also think it may depend on the actual life state of both people - if they go through a very difficult period with serious unresolved issues, I think it's best to stay away from adding that risk.

I have never engaged in friendship or romance with ex-Ts but did quite a few times with people I first met in a professional context, e.g. as teacher and other mentors (that scenario also has clear roles and power differential). They all ended up really interesting, mostly positive, mutually respectful and constructive relationships; they did not last forever but I was never one expecting relationships to last forever and I tend to move on myself. The one I really regret was when I engaged in a complex personal relationship with a student as a mentor originally - that was during a time I was very messed up myself and it's also a scenario that does not tend to be appealing to me normally beyond transient fantasies that are mostly pleasant. It did not lead to any disaster or serious hurt but was very uncomfortable for a while after everything ended in a series of ugly conflicts coming from both of us' issues. There is no way on Earth I would ever do it again with a trainee. So, again, I think the outcomes is determined by a combination of people involved and the larger context. I would not dare to predict such outcomes to anyone other than myself.

Did you read my post? My experience was abusive. Dismissing that pain as "doom and gloom" is arrogant and unkind. If you want supportive replies on your thread, you might consider extending the same courtesy to others.

Uh, you were indicating that ALL relationships with Ex T's end badly.... I was saying they do not. Doom and Gloom was a phrase indicating bad endings. I didn't dismiss anything, I read what you said in yours, you however, dismissed my idea that it is not all bad. No need to comment here if you don't want, no one is forcing you to

Not 'arf.

Thank you for this response. I love everything about this post. The examples, the open minded views... it was very refreshing to read.

So is anxiety.

I don't believe it is always bad/wrong/avoidable to stay in touch or even become friends. I think a lot of consideration and care should be put into it and still things might go differently than anticipated. So I'm with DP on this. But I also worry if the idea of it becomes too much of an obsession, that might point into the direction of too little balance. That's why I suggested trying to find support and relationships and love from other people as well. If one person is the only source of it all, it doesn't sound good and maintainable.

Completely agree and my T even said something similar. It is only "obsessive" feeling now because I'm dealing with the reality of it all still. I do have support. A few people off here that I talk to elsewhere, other online friends, I even met up with an old friend last night for dinner and my best friend is there.

I've got trips planned, volunteer gigs, my work, plans to move, things to keep me busy. I don't like the obsessive side of my anxiety, so I try to kick it in the pants asap before it gets out of control.

I am aware of some positive endings, but in all of those cases, the therapy itself was not crossing any ethical boundaries. My opinion and experience is that the ethics of the therapy is a good sign of the therapist's character. I don't know a single story of someone who was seeing a therapist who crossed ethical therapy boundaries with that person in any way & it turned into a healthy friendship.

As for the 2-year rule, the general idea, I believe, is that it's time for everyone to move on.

My current T has a "T for life" rule - he will never be a client's friend, period. Doesn't mean no contact once therapy has ended, but he will always be my therapist - even if my therapist who I am not seeing any longer.

TMC

Friendships could happen sure, but this thread is more about contact in general. The sort of "catch up" with someone from your past type thing. At this point, that's all I want, and things would happen as they do if meant to be more.

I think if my T was that concerned about contact in two years, he would have said so, he had no problem being blunt with me. Who knows what will happen? There could even be a chance he would be a T again, even though he is not betting on it, no one knows.

Yeah, I don't really have anything to add here except that one size doesn't fit all about anything in life. To assume a transference remains active throughout a lifetime is wrong imo. At the same time, as I think I said before on a thread, a post therapy relationship can only be as healthy as the therapy relationship. I think the combination of a person with unresolved feelings of low self-worth with one who is anxiety-ridden and shows an inability to maintain self and relationship boundaries does not bode well for a healthy future relationship.

Aside from that, while my post-therapy relationship has stood the test of time and been rewarding, it has not been all rainbows and unicorns. Much like any relationship, it's had its stresses. If either of us had been less secure as individuals, and if we hadn't had a successful therapy as the foundation, I doubt it would have survived.

FKM

That's all true... but one thing I DO wanna work on is my insecurity and self worth stuff. I also know he wants to work on his issues. He is in regular therapy. Time could change us for the good in THOSE ways, who knows? As you said, one size doesn't fit all. So true.

Right now I think the hardest thing for me, is trying to get used to the changes in my routine. I know it will be hard for a while, like any grief, and two years is a short time but also a long time.... anything can happen. Heck, as unlikely as it is, I could even bump into him at some point somewhere.

Thanks for sharing your story too.

I am genuinely sorry for the pain that you are so obviously going through
Most people on here don’t report in great detail what has been communicated between themselves and their therapist and for myself I often couldn’t remember large amounts of it-I have no real understanding of how my own therapy went from shaking hands at the beginning of each session to laughing/joking// much very personal information being shared by my therapist/ random texts about sunsets/ poetry / sessions becoming 3 hrs at end of day/ hugging etc etc-it all felt safe and natural and freindlike and there were very highly charged moments-terminating was my decision and is still and ongoing the most painful experience of my life- 7 months after the event
like other posters I fluctuate between anger at the loose boundaries to desperate longing-I called him a cruel b......to his face and left him in tears
Many of us have experienced our own version of this excruciating confusing all consuming hell on Earth

This is your thread and it is a support forum and you have rightly asked for and received a lot of kind and non judgemental support mainly from those who have experienced (or continue to)their version of your pain- no one has minimised or dismissed your feelings but capitalisation and comments like”losing their minds” if some unnamed interaction /game had occurred between themselves and their therapist or if you divulged certain things on here - feels unpleasant and unnecessary to me as opposed to purely pain or desperation or hope

I hope you find some peace with this situation in time and accept I may be alone in my thoughts here