[sidony]

Okay I couldn't dream up a very fitting title for this thread. I was going for something with "erotic transference" but couldn't make it work.

I know I've read a number of posts from people who want to have sex with their therapists. I always felt like a bit of an outsider because I don't fantasize about T in that way. And now I've gone and made it worse. I actually told T that I didn't fantasize about having sex with him (this as part of a long discussion where I was using sex as an analogy for intimacy). I felt so awful after telling him that, felt like I'd rejected him. We talked about that some today, but I still feel terrible. My fear is that I'm now on the outside, that he'll be closer to the ones who have stronger desires/want for him. I guess there was more I should have added -- I don't fantasize about T sexually, but my relationship with him is so fascinating and interesting to me that I don't even fret the lack of a romantic relationship in my life right now. I complain about not having sex, but I don't even really care all that much. My relationship with T is fascinating and helpful and keeps me from feeling lonely.

I still feel like I alienated myself with that rejection though.

Sidony

[sunrise]

sidony, your post is really fascinating. It sounds like your feeling like you are an outsider to your T is painful, and it hurts you to think you rejected him and may have caused him pain. I think it's a measure of how much you really care about him that you feel so bad. I hope you will continue to explore this with him. It seems very rich and may be an echo of other relationships--how we can be fearful we will be rejected ourselves if we don't toe the line and tell the person what we think they want to hear.

I understand where your fear is coming from. But remember, your T knows how to take care of himself. He is a healthy, well adjusted adult I assume. Not wanting to have sex with your therapist does not make you odd (though Freud would probably disagree). I think you are taking your fear of how you believe he should take the news and projecting it on to him - believing because YOU would take it as rejection HE will take it as rejection. I am sure you have not alienated yourself from him at all. Erotic transference can work for some people, and not for others. Just because you do not feel it does not mean there is any less of emotionally connected relationship. It means, you know the boundaries and are comfortable with them in this relationship. He realizes this is a GOOD thing!

Can you describe how you feel about your therapist (there are many different kinds of transference, and its nature can differ over the course of the relationship)?

[Mouse_]

Sidony, I use to believe that the goal of therapy for me was to be able to put my feet up on T's couch. This became a battle within me trying to work out ways to not have to do this as in my head I thought all "sorted" people could do this. I told T once that if being "cured" meant I will eventually lay on her couch then lets go for damage limitation now because thats never going to happen. T said being comfortable with someone isn't about being able to put ones feet up or not its about being able to talk about the deeper issues, some people put their feet up immediately but never really venture into that unknown place. I think your being able to tell your T you dont have fantasys about him is the equivalent of being comfortable enought without having to "act" it out. Good for you!

[Perna]

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sidony said:
where I was using sex as an analogy for intimacy

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Sidony, I think you are getting too caught up in your own analogy and imagining your T thinks/feels the way that you do? I doubt he feels rejected just because you don't wish to have sex with him. Sex does not strike me as being what therapeutic intimacy is really about; I don't find it a very good analogy at all.

Did you ask him at all about whether he felt rejected or how he felt about the analogy or mention to him you felt you had rejected him and were worried it could harm your chances for later, therapeutic intimacy?

i don't want to have sex with my T.. i have strong feelings, but those strong feelings aren't sexual. i don't think they HAVE to be. My T said something to me that i have found very helpful when i have doubts and fears concerning him... he said to ask myself about what i know and feel about him.. would he really do X? why would he do X? How likely is it, from what i know, that he would feel X or Y? What past events support or reject those ideas?

So... based on what you think your T is like, how likely is it that he truly feels rejected? How likely is it that he will value you more or less based on your sexualizing him? Do you believe he values one client more than others?

i think sunrise is so right... your strong reaction means there is a LOT there to explore. Strong reactions always indicate a good direction to go in.

BTW... GOOD FOR YOU for having the courage and trust to tell your T that in the first place! Be proud of your courage! (and think about that trust that allowed you to say it when you think about how your T might really feel)

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sidony said:
I actually told T that I didn't fantasize about having sex with him (this as part of a long discussion where I was using sex as an analogy for intimacy).

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I would need to know more about the use of sex as an analogy for intimacy, but if I am correct I remember you in the past stating that one of the reasons you entered therapy was because you have trouble with intimacy in relationships. I think that if you are equating sex with intimacy, then no wonder you wouldn't have sexual feelings towards him. If sex=intimacy for you, then if you are afraid of one, perhaps you'd be afraid of the other. (Speaking in terms of T and erotic transference and all that).

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My fear is that I'm now on the outside, that he'll be closer to the ones who have stronger desires/want for him.

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This tells me that maybe you are projecting your fear of rejecting him onto him; i.e., this statement indicates a fear of him rejecting you. You put yourself on the outside and he is closer, more 'intimate' with others.

I think you are very brave for telling him this and you are doing some very hard work in therapy.

[sidony]

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Perna said:
Sex does not strike me as being what therapeutic intimacy is really about; I don't find it a very good analogy at all.

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I guess I shouldn't have even mentioned that analogy if I wasn't going to clarify it. You can ignore it, it's actually not at all relevant. The reason why I was making an analogy with sex and intimacy has a long story behind it and has nothing to do with this post! That's just how we got onto the topic of sex, and I was remembering how many times I hear people say they fantasize about having sex with their therapist. When I said that I didn't, I felt bad about saying that afterwards. I guess I want anyone I care for to feel like I desire them. Hm, more I should add but want to clear up the analogy confusion I started first...

Sidony

[sidony]

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pinksoil said:
I would need to know more about the use of sex as an analogy for intimacy

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Okay here goes, Pink. The story behind that analogy (thumbnail version):

A long time ago I had a dream that I saw T working in a bowling alley (random side job for a therapist, eh?). I thought it was a very stupid dream until I figured out what it was about: The bowling alley was located in the same place that the game-room was located in my college. I became involved with the guy who was working in the game-room. He was the first person who ever tried to seduce me physically, and it was absolutely fascinating to me. In the case of therapy, intimacy is equally new to me (as sex was back then) and just as fascinating. So I was relating this dream to T. I even mentioned that the guy who worked in the game-room had had lots of sexual partners (just like a therapist would have had lots of clients), so I thought the dream made sense. And in the midst of all the discussion of sex, T says he wonders if he's ignoring the "elephant in the room" -- the possibility that I want to have sex with him. Which was where I said that that wasn't my fantasy and then felt bad about it!

Clearer now?
Sidony

[sidony]

And actually it's strange to me that I don't imagine having sex with him, given that it makes total sense to me every time I hear someone say they want to sleep with their therapist. Well duh -- of course they do after sharing so much intimate information about themselves with them. But then I don't myself so I wonder about it. It may be that boundaries are so important to me that I can't even fantasize around them. I know I never fantasize about anyone who's unavailable to me. I mean, even if I have sexual fantasies about a celebrity, it's never ME -- I become someone else inside the fantasy, someone to whom that celebrity would be available. Make sense? I don't know if that's a protective defense or if it's just that someone else's desire for me is what I react to. I sense that T would never cross any boundaries and so I don't want that. I feed off other people's emotions/desires, etc. And now I wonder if I'm just living my whole life vicariously! That led to another part of the discussion where I said I can't enjoy doing something if I know someone else is doing it just for me but doesn't want to (like I wanted to go to the movies over the holidays but didn't want my family to go with me unless they really wanted to). Anyway, that's a side track of me trying to figure out why I didn't feel that way. I really didn't like saying that I don't fantasize about him sexually. I know I wouldn't want anyone saying that to me. Of course I'd never open myself up with the question.

Sidony

[ECHOES]

sidony, it may not be your concious fantasy. But it may be there at a deeper level and so it came out safely, in a dream.

I thnk just putting T there in your dream in nearly the same role as your boyfriend who seduced you says a lot. What a great dream to take to therapy!

[tulips30]

Sometimes I wish I did feel that way (sexual) towards my t. He is a very good looking man and I would probably understand why I had the feeling I had. I think I would also be able to maintain some control of myself

But, my feelings are ALL about wanting a daddy, I know I try to manipulate him into situations where he will TELL me what to do or protect me. I don't seem to be able to maintain contol over this behavior. When he denies me this, I feel extremely rejected and denied. Chances are, if I were dealing with the sexual transference issues, I would probably be just as bad and manipulative. I'm a big mess. What can I say?