[Lemoncake]

Dr. T: “Well, you *were* overreacting. Wouldn’t you agree?” Me: “uh….”

I’m so annoyed at him for telling you this. You are allowed to feel whatever you’re feeling.

Just my take LT but I don’t think things are going to change with this therapist.

“And that I’d felt more connected to him, “not in a weird or inappropriate way, just that we were understanding each other and in a good place”

You should be able to say the above without adding the extra stuff. It’s not weird or inappropriate to feel the way you do. It just reads that you’re taking care of him. The focus should be on you.

[smileygal]

Would have to agree with LemonCake. His comments are often quite judgement based and shaming. . Feelings are feelings and if there is any place we are allowed show them fully or 'over react' without fear of being shamed because of them it should be in the therapy room.

[stopdog]

I don't see anything wrong with pointing out over-reaction when it occurs. And I believe there is a lot of over-reaction. IF one wishes to stay in an over-reacted mode -then fine but otherwise I would think finding ways to not do so is good and the first step would be pointing out where it occurs.

[ElectricManatee]

Who gets to determine what is reaction and what is overreaction?

Describing something as an over reaction relies on the idea that there is a conventional reaction which is more acceptable. Seems like a way to reinforce ideas around how people (probably mostly women) should respond emotionally. Normative nonsense.

LT, this sounds like another missed opportunity where he describes your reactions in this way rather than getting right in there with you.

[stopdog]

If someone wants to weep when they run out of toothpaste or because someone else is going to ride in a plane or because someone didn't word something exactly correctly or whatever -then fine. But it externally looks like a miserable way to live and not conducive to others being other to have normal relations. But certainly it is up to the person to decide if that is how they want to be or not. I would not myself. I do think there is a difference in whether something is a crisis or mere inconvenience.

[Lemoncake]

Why not explore the moments behind which led to crying over the toothpaste？

Maybe there literally is no more money to buy a replacement or It was something their loved one always did for them.

The first step to healing is not to bury the pain but to feel it in its fullest depths.If the toothpaste is the catalyst so be it even if it might not be a “normal” expected reaction. It’s normal to cry when we’re hurt and in pain.

[stopdog]

What would the point of it be?

Thank goodness for our unexpected and unusual reactions. They give us information about ourselves.

[stopdog]

Sometimes I am reminded of monty python:
Reg: What?
Stan: I want to be a woman. From now on I want you all to call me Loretta.
Reg: What!?
Stan: It's my right as a man.
Judith: Why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
Stan: I want to have babies.
Reg: You want to have babies?!?!?!
Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But you can't have babies.
Stan: Don't you oppress me.
Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan -- you haven't got a womb. Where's the
fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?
(Stan starts crying.)
Judith: Here! I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually
have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the
Romans', but that he can have the *right* to have babies.
Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to
have babies, brother. Sister, sorry.
Reg: (pissed) What's the *point*?
Francis: What?
Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he
can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.

I just don't see it how some of you do.

Originally Posted by stopdog

What would the point of it be?

It's information about our internal world which leads us to be able to make choices in the external world.

[Lemoncake]

Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.

You can still be a man and grieve the loss of children you don’t have regardless of having a functioning womb.

Originally Posted by stopdog

Sometimes I am reminded of monty python:
Reg: What?
Stan: I want to be a woman. From now on I want you all to call me Loretta.
Reg: What!?
Stan: It's my right as a man.
Judith: Why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
Stan: I want to have babies.
Reg: You want to have babies?!?!?!
Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But you can't have babies.
Stan: Don't you oppress me.
Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan -- you haven't got a womb. Where's the
fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?
(Stan starts crying.)
Judith: Here! I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually
have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the
Romans', but that he can have the *right* to have babies.
Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to
have babies, brother. Sister, sorry.
Reg: (pissed) What's the *point*?
Francis: What?
Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he
can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.

I just don't see it how some of you do.

This isn't an example of over reaction. It's an example of entitlement or delusion.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Lemoncake

Dr. T: “Well, you *were* overreacting. Wouldn’t you agree?” Me: “uh….”

I’m so annoyed at him for telling you this. You are allowed to feel whatever you’re feeling.

Just my take LT but I don’t think things are going to change with this therapist.

“And that I’d felt more connected to him, “not in a weird or inappropriate way, just that we were understanding each other and in a good place”

You should be able to say the above without adding the extra stuff. It’s not weird or inappropriate to feel the way you do. It just reads that you’re taking care of him. The focus should be on you.

Hi Lemon, thanks for the comments.

It's funny, I brought up the overreacting thing thinking that he would say he wasn't trying to say I was overreacting--then he literally said it!

The thing is, in his mind, being "mildly irritated" is this minor thing. So if someone felt that way toward him, he'd be like "eh, whatever." So from his perspective, I suppose it is overreacting? But it's much different in my head.

As for the second part, I brought that up yesterday, but am not sure we really finished that part of the conversation, as I referenced something ex-T had said, and we ended up discussing that and my relationship with her.

But what I said to him was how I find I censor myself around him. The example I gave was from the previous session, when he was talking about how I may have felt more "emotionally cared for" by him lately regarding stuff with D. I said to him yesterday that I had wanted to say "I felt loved," quickly adding that I meant platonically, but that I worried about how he'd react to it. That he'd say something like "I don't love you" or "this is a professional relationship, and I save that for personal relationships." Even though I was just saying how it felt to me, not what *he* felt. (Of course I wanted him to say that he'd never say something like that to me, but he's also big on being honest and not making promises he doesn't know he can keep, so he likely wouldn't have said that.)

I'm trying to recall what exactly he said to that. I know somewhere in there he said that if he said something to me that upset me, he thought we'd be able to work through it. But then I mentioned ex-T's "I can't be your mother or your friend" comment, and that led to a side discussion about her and our relationship, and we never really circled back around to my censoring myself around him.

I'm considering mentioning it tomorrow, but I don't know. I have other, non-therapeutic-relationship stuff to talk about, like something H said to D last night that's bothering me, plus more stuff about D, so maybe I should stick to that? In part because we have an important meeting with D's school Monday that will likely lead to me being emotional, and I really don't want to risk more conflict with T right now. Our conversation the last half of yesterday's session about that was extremely helpful, and he was really supportive of me. Like I could see this shift in him and his energy--and empathy--once we changed to that topic. So maybe I focus on that for now, and resume stuff regarding the relationship later?

[stopdog]

LT - do you like reacting the way you or not? If you do -then who cares what others label it. If you don't - then at least you know what others think is over-reacting and might explain why others respond to you the way they do

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

Thank goodness for our unexpected and unusual reactions. They give us information about ourselves.

This is a good point. I've started crying at seemingly really random times in session (or outside of session), and it makes me think "OK, what is triggering me here, what is going on with that?" A particularly random one that I remember from marriage counseling is when I talked about how I was good at math in school (it was relevant somehow), then started crying and said, "I miss math...." And it turned out to be mainly about the fact that math has (for the most part!) clear-cut answers and solutions, unlike life in general. But my seemingly random emotional reaction led to some insight.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by stopdog

LT - do you like reacting the way you or not? If you do -then who cares what others label it. If you don't - then at least you know what others think is over-reacting and might explain why others respond to you the way they do

I don't like reacting this way, which is why I mentioned it to him in that session. And he clarified yesterday that it's the first time I'd really talked about my own role in things and not liking my own reaction, as opposed to just talking about ways he'd upset me, things I felt he'd done wrong, etc.

I do want to change how I react to things (with everyone, not just him)--he said that recognizing it is a huge step forward. It's just a matter of figuring out how to do that.

[SlumberKitty]

LT, you are being very brave in working things through about how you react. I hope that Dr T can help you through it to get you to whatever space you would like to be in.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by SlumberKitty

LT, you are being very brave in working things through about how you react. I hope that Dr T can help you through it to get you to whatever space you would like to be in.

Thanks, Kit.

Originally Posted by stopdog

LT - do you like reacting the way you or not? If you do -then who cares what others label it. If you don't - then at least you know what others think is over-reacting and might explain why others respond to you the way they do

The point is that LT's therapist is not the authority on what qualifies as an over reaction. He thinks LT is over reacting, that's all that his comment tells LT. So LT could mould herself around his personal expectations, but what insight is that? LT needs support to work out for herself what her responses mean - not to rely on some external source to define that for her.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Like I could see this shift in him and his energy--and empathy--once we changed to that topic. So maybe I focus on that for now, and resume stuff regarding the relationship later?

This sentence just highlighted some of what bothers me about your T. I am really glad that he is so supportive regarding things around your daughter, but why does it only have to be when you are on that topic?

[JaneTennison1]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

The point is that LT's therapist is not the authority on what qualifies as an over reaction. He thinks LT is over reacting, that's all that his comment tells LT. So LT could mould herself around his personal expectations, but what insight is that? LT needs support to work out for herself what her responses mean - not to rely on some external source to define that for her.

This is something that rubs me the wrong way. You are 100% correct. The point in navigating the world is deciding for yourself what works and what doesn't, not behaving yourself or dulling down your reaction to avoid the threat of losing someone in your life or having them disapprove. So much focus and care is on what your therapist needs you to be LT.

When I said he was unethical I didn't even mean in increased support or how he supports you, most people have moments of needing more and needing less, I mean in his being out of his depth in helping you. So much time spent on how your relationship with him looks and I just wonder what is the core. What is the feeling. You don't have to tell me I'm not asking just saying when I read your posts LT I see distraction and protection. I use those techniques myself. Getting to the real core takes time but I really hope you can because I think healing that heals all this outside surface distraction noise.

My emetophobia is a distraction, my constant fighting with T was a distraction when I started work with EMDR T we went right to the heart and in that, the rest healed. I hope you can find the heart of things and I hope T helps but from everything you describe he does not sound skilled enough to see around the distractions.

[stopdog]

But when the guy tries, lt has a meltdown.
I am completely baffled at some of the comments here. I really just don't see any of therapy the way you all do.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

Who gets to determine what is reaction and what is overreaction?

"Stifle yourself, eh there, Edith?" -- Archie Bunker

I.e., in the olden days, it was men's job to control their property.

LT - you said today here in more than one place that you anticipate what T will say in response to you. Also that you are often disappointed in his responses. When exactly do you do this? Are there long pauses when you guys talk? Or do you come in with a pre-rehearsed script? Or is this all after the fact. I just cant imagine any scenario where i would even WANT my t to say something specific, let alone remember what it was, in the moment. Like you kinda set him up to say overreacting, while hoping he wouldnt say it? That seems like a dishonest transaction, at the very least. Like playing a rigged chess game. What would it prove?

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by velcro003

This sentence just highlighted some of what bothers me about your T. I am really glad that he is so supportive regarding things around your daughter, but why does it only have to be when you are on that topic?

Yes, this is part of what I struggle with. That he can freely give empathy and support around some topics, but then can become more distant and/or prickly if it's about the therapeutic relationship. Or, apparently, if I do something to "irritate" him.