Couch 241: Twin primes!

Yes LT it's okay to see the other T. Hope it helps. Hugs

Thanks, Kit. I decided to keep my appointment with her for Thursday, and I canceled my Wednesday session with Dr. T next week (didn't want to go to 4 sessions in a week, partly for financial reasons).

Anyone lucky enough to not have any snow right now?

Wish I had snow. P just got back from Alaska where there was apparently plenty of snow. Showed me a pic of his rental car covered in it. I was jealous. I know it's a pain when you just want to get on with your life, but it sure is pretty.

No snow here where I am! We rarely see any and when we do it doesn't stick around very long. My son and his gf are dealing with icy road conditions in their area though.

That does look cool!

We had a good time earlier today packing up the toys for the foster kids. Finally got to meet my boss in person, which was nice. We got everything bagged up for the 65 participating families (last I had heard previously, there were like 52 but a bunch more signed up last-minute), including a goody bag for each family that has little stuff in it like a box of crayons, craft projects, a bag of chocolate candy, a mini-gingerbread house kit, a card game... then the organization brought a u-haul over and we loaded that up with all the bags. Saturday the foster parents come and pick up the bags of toys, I guess because of covid still being a thing they're still not doing a big event for the kids like in past years. It was a lot of fun playing an elf and handing out the bags of toys when we could do it in person. I used PTO for the rest of the day after we finished so have just been relaxing this afternoon. Gotta take advantage of all the relaxing I can before our Jan 1 busy season/overtime hits!

I talked to the anti-discrimination office yesterday. It went okay. I have to send them any communications I have (emails, etc.), which I will do tomorrow.

I totally expect backlash to this, but...eh. I’m tired of this **** and it’s time to do sonething. If I stay here, I want a guarantee of protection in the event of any future incidents like this and nothing like mediation crap. And the best way is to have it on record.

I hope they fire that bees butt.

We just got our first snow this night. Hopefully the streets are cleared by the time I have to leave... it's always a huge deal somehow where everyone forgets how to drive. As if we weren't situated in the middle of mountains and got snow multiple times each winter...

I had a really horrible session with Dr. T today. I know, I've said this before, but I'm really unsure whether I can continue with him at this point. I mean, maybe to work on stuff like things with my D until I find a new T.

I mean, when it gets to the point where I'm shouting "I ****ing know that!" twice after he had the door open when we were parting ways (so like, others in the office suite could hear--I did apologize for that aspect--that's probably a bad sign. Especially as I don't curse much, at least with him. It was in response to his saying "You're part of my job." Before that, after a really painful session (and confirming he likely wouldn't have availability during his work hours Sunday), he said I could still email him this weekend. To which I said, "Yeah, but you'll charge me for it." Which led to him saying "Well, you're part of my job."

He said some very hurtful things during the session-this isn't just me randomly lashing out or thinking he owed me free emails (he also didn't charge for them at all during the first 2 years of the pandemic, so it's a difficult adjustment. It's only when they hit a certain length or frequency, but he made it fairly clear that I'm at that point now. I do not intend to email him before Monday, if I even keep that session. We both might need a cooling off period if we're to continue in any form at all.)

Ouch, LT. I am sorry you had to endure that.

HUGS LT. I'm so sorry you had a difficult session with your T. Sending Hugs your way!

Thanks, Lost.

Thanks, Kit. I appreciate the hugs.

I responded to your dear T’s thread, but what the h*ll!!! I can not even imagine either of my T’s saying these things to me. I am amazed he is SO uninformed about attachment and trauma. I also think it is pretty amazing that you stood up for yourself!

Sorry to hear things are so hard right now LT. He seems to be clumsily barging through a very fragile period of time in the therapy relationship. Honestly I feel like he should have been prepared for this sort of possibility. To act as if your feelings have come out of nowhere and are a shock that he needs to process seems rather amateur and lacking in a lot of skill and knowledge tbh.

He actually told you to "back off"? I assume because of stuff related to the L word coming up? This guy should really limit himself to doing manualized CBT and get his own therapy so he won't hurt people who are looking for something a little more relational and deeper.

Hugs LT! I'm sorry that that happened.

Thanks, Velcro. I appreciate the support!

I really don't know what his issue is. Well, issues, plural.

Thanks, Scarlet! I appreciate the support and hugs.

Thanks, Smiley. I appreciate the validation. I mean, I initially consulted with him because of my transference for ex-MC. He heard all about that. I don't really get how he's surprised by this either. I guess he thought by not being all warm and fuzzy, the transference and attachment wouldn't happen. But that's not how transference works. (I mean, the psychoanalytic model is based on the blank-slate therapist, as I understand it. A blank slate on which to project transference.) He even acknowledges that much of this is transference! But then (including today) will also say he feels it's about him specifically (when I say it's not). So I don't know....

I guess on the sort-of plus side, he has reached out to consult with others about this. But he said one T said it seems I'm just trying to sabotage the relationship. And Dr. T seemed to agree with that. So...not sure how that's helpful without exploring the *why* that might be happening. We talked about that briefly I guess. But he didn't seem to get that this is more of a subconscious thing, about trying to get some need met or address something from my past, as opposed to me saying,"OK, then, time to sabotage this relationship!"

Plus, it seemed fine at first! Apparently it's that I keep wanting to talk about it. But I'm trying to examine what it's about. What's behind it. I'm trying to do...therapy.

He didn't tell me to do that today, but said today that in the future, he may need to tell me to "back off." I asked what would lead to his doing that, and he said how if it seemed to be an issue in terms of ethics and how he practices. Which, what? Isn't it on him to uphold the ethics?

An example he gave before was if I were to say "I love you" every time I left (because I shared what a client posted on here ages ago related to that), that would be an issue. I said at the time (a couple weeks ago), "I haven't done that and don't intend to. And I initially told you this 4 years ago and haven't done that since, so I'm not sure why you're concerned about that."

I also asked him what was so threatening or scary about me expressing this to him. He didn't seem to have an answer for that.

Transference is in every relationship not just therapy relationships so it doesn't matter whether the T is blank slate or not. Also I kinda despise the use of the word transference as the way it's used is that it somehow separates what you are feeling in the here and now and suggesting 'oh those feelings are all just transference and based on your past' as if they are somehow not real....the majority of our feelings of love for others have some remnant of the past. This is why and how many of us unconsciously choose our partners. It's all intermixed all the time....

I don't understand the implication that you wanting to talk about it means you are trying to sabotage the relationship....I'm not entirely sure of your whole conversation so I may be filling in blanks but I know in my therapy I've have a similar need in that I have strong feelings for my T and Spend a-lot of time wanting to talk about it..and keep revisiting it and going around in circles. I know some of the preoccupation is my own stuff and attachment wounds but I also honestly think my therapists inability to express some form of return care for me is part of the reason we are stuck here. It's like my attachment system has been activated ... I read some psychologist refer to it as the care seeking system and will not rest until it receives the care (at least on some basic level) that it is seeking...our therapists are very different in many ways but similar in that neither will return care in a way that people with attachment wounds like we have may need. It's incredibly frustrating and painful. I'd been hoping my therapist would at some point see the light and just even been willing to try take a calculated risk to see but they seem to have the heels very much stuck in the mud on this. Part of me thinks it's not just a strongly held belief in their therapeutic orientation but also down to her own comfort levels in being able to give and receive care/love openly.

Thanks, Smiley. I agree on how transference is there in all relationships to some degree. And my T did some exercise with me early on where I answered certain questions, then it suggested what I was looking for in a partner, etc. Which was tied to stuff from childhood. I think it's actually a marriage counseling exercise (he has training in that) from Harville Hendrix (had to google that). Where stuff we wanted (and either did or didn't get) from our parents is also stuff we want from a romantic partner.

Your comment on this is resonating with me: "I also honestly think my therapists inability to express some form of return care for me is part of the reason we are stuck here. It's like my attachment system has been activated." and "neither will return care in a way that people with attachment wounds like we have may need." I'm wondering if that's why I feel the need to talk about it so much lately?

I know my T thinks I want to hear the words back, but I said there were maybe 10 different ways I could think of that he could have responded that would have satisfied me (at least on some level) and felt better than how he did. Like if he'd said, say, "I'm glad to know you feel safe enough in the relationship to share that feeling, and it's completely OK with me." He's said some bits of that, but it's not hitting in the right spot, and he seems to have pulled back from his reaction when I initially said it like...2 months ago maybe? (we haven't talked about it at every session)

But it does seem like something has been activated in me, triggering the need to talk about it. I feel if we could just talk it through, I could feel satisfied. But it's like we can talk about it some, then it gets weird, I back off, talk about something else, rinse, repeat.

I do think, in my T's case at least, that much of it comes down to their own comfort level. I did ask today about how he said he won't tell his friends he loves them, but does he feel he loves them? And he said something about "feeling but not telling." So I guess in his mind, I crossed some line in telling. Like it's OK to feel it, as long as I don't share it. I'm not sure how that's helpful?

I'm sorry you're dealing with this as well. I know it's difficult. Why can't they just give us what we need? What harm would come from them saying, "I feel love for you, too," as long as they qualified that it wasn't romantic, say.