[little*rhino]

will there come a point in therapy at which i begin the climb up and out instead of continuing to pick my way downward? Will there come a point at which i feel better.. even ok.. after most sessions, instead of upset? will there be a time when i do not feel this longing?

for a long time everything about my life was better than it had been.. i got out more, i began making a few friends, i was in my own place... things were looking up. But now... the friendships have not deepened, i'm lonely, i keep busy to avoid realizing that i don't have a lot, other than T, to look forward to.. i mean, i have things to *do*.. but nothing that makes me happy. Tomorrow i am having people over for pizza.. i do it because i feel i have to keep trying to be social. It makes me cringe..

there are people who i care about and who care about me... friends i've had for over 30yrs in some cases.. but they all live very far away... i'm alone.

i've been noticing a deeper, stronger draw to T lately... nothing romantic at all, nothing even remotely sexual.. not that sort of thing... but a drawn, a longing. It interests me as much as it haunts me. i know this is some sort of transference issue... and one clue is that it isn't always aimed at T and it isn't always there. i think the feeling surrounding him is related to my wanting him to ease my pain... make it stop somehow. i keep wanting to cling... i feel very much like a small lost child... trying to get this stranger to take me back to my home... but there isn't any home, and i am not a child. i am a very confused and heart sick adult without a healthy sense of self, a damaged identity, low self esteem, low confidence, almost nonexistent self worth... and with no real deep, safe, healthy reciprocated attachment to anyone she sees regularly or frequently.

will there come a day when i look out over my own little corner of the world and feel contentment with what i see?

Originally Posted by Candika

i've been noticing a deeper, stronger draw to T lately... nothing romantic at all, nothing even remotely sexual.. not that sort of thing... but a drawn, a longing. It interests me as much as it haunts me. i know this is some sort of transference issue... and one clue is that it isn't always aimed at T and it isn't always there. i think the feeling surrounding him is related to my wanting him to ease my pain... make it stop somehow.

Wow, this makes so much sense to me. Before T, I spent years searching, searching, searching, searching. I tried spiritual stuff, I tried AA, I've spent hours upon hours staring at the self-help and psych books at Barnes and Noble. Now it's like I've focused ALL of that searching onto T. Huh. I never thought of it that way.

And on the weekend, when he is unavailable, I find myself sometimes back at the bookstore, doing the searching, searching, searching thing again. It doesn't feel fun, or good. It feels kind of desperate and longing.

Will there be an end to it? I don't know. I hope so, and I guess I think T is my best shot at it finally ending some day. I just don't know what else to do. Nothing else has worked.

((((((((((((((((((((((((( candika )))))))))))))))))))))))))) It's a painful spot to be in, for sure.

[lifeblows]

This resonated a lot with me. You put into words so well what I cannot. I finally gave up and am trying to figure out what to do. A lot of what you're talking about made therapy really unbearable for me. And EM, so interesting, I'd do the same things with the books. I hate therapy.

[RiverX]

Candika, what does your instinct say? does it say this is a healthy, honest pain of facing things, OR is it saying, this is just driving you into an ever increasing need and longing?
In my own past if I'd been asked that question, I would have said, "its unhealthy, but just one more and its going to turn a corner and be healthy" and every corner needed another corner... eventually I had enough and left.
With my caliT. I have all those love and longing feelings, but its a healty process and it feels I'm getting through something. But I dont want to put you off, sometimes you have to walk through the pain, but only IF its healthy pain. Theres a world of difference, you'll know the difference...

r.

Originally Posted by Candika

will there come a point in therapy at which i begin the climb up and out instead of continuing to pick my way downward? Will there come a point at which i feel better.. even ok.. after most sessions, instead of upset? will there be a time when i do not feel this longing?

for a long time everything about my life was better than it had been.. i got out more, i began making a few friends, i was in my own place... things were looking up. But now... the friendships have not deepened, i'm lonely, i keep busy to avoid realizing that i don't have a lot, other than T, to look forward to.. i mean, i have things to *do*.. but nothing that makes me happy. Tomorrow i am having people over for pizza.. i do it because i feel i have to keep trying to be social. It makes me cringe..

there are people who i care about and who care about me... friends i've had for over 30yrs in some cases.. but they all live very far away... i'm alone.

i've been noticing a deeper, stronger draw to T lately... nothing romantic at all, nothing even remotely sexual.. not that sort of thing... but a drawn, a longing. It interests me as much as it haunts me. i know this is some sort of transference issue... and one clue is that it isn't always aimed at T and it isn't always there. i think the feeling surrounding him is related to my wanting him to ease my pain... make it stop somehow. i keep wanting to cling... i feel very much like a small lost child... trying to get this stranger to take me back to my home... but there isn't any home, and i am not a child. i am a very confused and heart sick adult without a healthy sense of self, a damaged identity, low self esteem, low confidence, almost nonexistent self worth... and with no real deep, safe, healthy reciprocated attachment to anyone she sees regularly or frequently.

will there come a day when i look out over my own little corner of the world and feel contentment with what i see?

[little*rhino]

im so sorry... i didn't mean that the longing and pain are being caused or drawn out by T.. i think he is a fantastic T, there really couldn't be a better one for me.

i was thinking after writing this post that i might just give it to T.. because i think it says something i haven't been able to express... about that feeling like a lost child. But now i am not sure.. i certainly don't want to give him or anyone the impression that i think he or my process with him is unproductive or unhelpful. i get a lot from therapy.. i have made many positive changes.

the longing and that anguish are coming from things i have not and can not talk to T about... at least not yet. Some of those things are from my past, some from my family, and some are about my relationship with T. All big, all scary. i will talk to him but this takes time. i am approaching a new transition phase i think and i am having a lot of painful realizations and such. i'm approaching some new trust issue obstacles... so talking about things like new reasons to fear he would abandon me are really hard.

would anyone relish telling your T that you feel the way that i do? i don't want to tell him that i feel like that little girl... or that i'd sell everyone i love to gypsies if he would just make the pain inside stop.

i am very sorry to have created confusion... my sadness and longing are about the things in my past that i cannot reach, or believe i cannot change. If i believe that i cannot change them then i am faced with two possibilities, either someone else (T) changes them for me or they remain unchanged. i cannot face door #1 or #3... so i am rocking myself gently, in the corner... interally pleading for T to make door #2 come true, even though i know that isn't reality.

i care about my T very deeply and genuinely.. no funny business. He's a caring person who has been so good for me, vital even. Without him i would not have survived last winter, nor would i be trying to do many of the things i currently do... i am just stuck... and therapy hurts like a $%#@!^&

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Candika

i am a very confused and heart sick adult without a healthy sense of self, a damaged identity, low self esteem, low confidence, almost nonexistent self worth... and with no real deep, safe, healthy reciprocated attachment to anyone she sees regularly or frequently.

Hi Candika, I have been working on myself for a few decades. (If I would have had websites like this I think that it would have progressed much faster! And I haven't been in therapy that whole time.) I am just now conquoring how I have kept people away from me so that I never enjoyed close friends (I have had friends). I increased my self-worth (which is a major reason why people keep others away), and I worked on MY identity. I think that working on these will be very helpful in your goal of attaching to others. After you work on this it is just examining closely exactly what you are doing that is not allowing others to get close. I found it was fear. At this point you have to look very closely at yourself to see it because it is easily over looked. I think that it was just a habit that I had to reach in and pull out and deal with. It is amazing the unconscious stuff we do to keep others at a distance. Oh yeah, and I think another big part of this was that the first person who betrayed me was my mother, so unconsciously I never trusted woman. I dealt with this head on. Once I was at a party talking to a woman and I felt myself feeling a bit unworthy. I immediately recognized it for what it was. I told myself that this woman is not my mother so stop! It really worked!

Originally Posted by Candika

my sadness and longing are about the things in my past that i cannot reach, or believe i cannot change. If i believe that i cannot change them then i am faced with two possibilities, either someone else (T) changes them for me or they remain unchanged. i cannot face door #1 or #3... so i am rocking myself gently, in the corner... interally pleading for T to make door #2 come true, even though i know that isn't reality.

Maybe I am misunderstanding but the only thing that you can change are your thoughts of today. For instance, if being mistreated has caused a person to feel unworthy the only thing that they can change is how they feel about themselves today.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Candika

...i'd sell everyone i love to gypsies if he would just make the pain inside stop.

Unfortunately I know the experience. I was willing to do that and more. Just like the protagonist in George Orwell's book 1984. It is quite an experience to know that you are capable of doing something like that.

[MINIME]

would anyone relish telling your T that you feel the way that i do? i don't want to tell him that i feel like that little girl... or that i'd sell everyone i love to gypsies if he would just make the pain inside stop.


I think that going to therapy is also alot about the relationship with the therapist. They are there to help you figure this out. I think that while it may be hard and scary and bring up scary feelings it could help. Hold on I need a cup of coffee to really think what I am trying to say. Ok what i am saying I think is that thats the T's job to help us sort out felings and help us explore why we feel the way we do. I dont think there is anything wrong with what your feeling. I think you may be suprised on how your T response to this. Its your choice to tell him or not. What is your goal in therapy? What are you afraid of? Whats the worse thing that could happen?

[little*rhino]

gosh.. thanks for responding guys. i hope i don't miss anyone's points.. here goes:

first.. i had maybe 2 hous of sleep.. i know that sleep helps re-set the anxiety clock but my doggy was sick and i was up throughout the night. i feel like a ... well, best not to say. The anxiety kicks back in a few milliseconds after i open my eyes from a nap even. i have left T numerous messages without asking for a call-back. i need to sit through this. i did change my sessions in two weeks from 1 to 2, so i will be doing 1,2,1 for now.

ok.. sannah.. yes, i am keenly aware of many of the things i do. painfully. i have struggled with them, and it was the subject of a recent voicemail to T. For the past year and 8 months and 26 days i have tried very hard to work on that stuff myself, making friends, making a network so as not to rely on any one person, trying to stay social if at all possible (also to help my issues with social anxiety issues that sometimes prevent me from leaving the house). i mentioned that stuff to T before but not indepth. i was doing everything i could outwardly do. Trouble is though, that without that inner stuff, the rest doesn't stick. i keep people at an emotional distance, i don't trust them, i feel bad even when someone actually gives me what i need emotionally... and then i flee.

Maybe I am misunderstanding but the only thing that you can change are your thoughts of today. For instance, if being mistreated has caused a person to feel unworthy the only thing that they can change is how they feel about themselves today.

yes... that was exactly what i was getting at.. badly said on my part maybe? i was meaning that the longing and sadness stem from my past, and nothing there can be changed... what is open to change is today. i want to believe T can help me make that change... but in the brutal reality that is my heart, i don't believe i can change and often don't even grasp what might need change.. T and i talk a lot about the gap between intellectual understanding and belief. To quote him ".. if beliefs were easy to change.. well, they wouldn't be beliefs, now would they?

we work a lot on identifying those beliefs... and what ones functioned "then" vs now. i have a hard time with this...it sounds easy but isn't. T explained it like someone who lived in South Africa during apartheid (sp?)... without someone telling them, or some outside influence, would they be able to recognize the problem they lived in socially? Well.. even he said this wasn't a perfect example, but think about it... if you grow up in a family that puts you down, you are more likely to accept something being wrong with you as just plain reality, instead of something you should question. So.. sifting through beliefs is something tedious and confusing. i can't point out or talk abuot things i dont see as wrong.

pach.. yeah... on the other hand... how long can anyone suffer without feeling this way? and can we or should we feel one bit bad about it? i suffered so much, needlessly, for the sake of others.... and for lesser reasons i think.

minime.. i saved yours for last, not just because you replied last but because responding to it really updates what today brought out for me. T would never "reject" me.. would not make me go away... and would always try to work with me on whatever i felt. He says feelings just are. i just can't talk to him about these newer discoveries.. not yet.. maybe never, i dont know. It took a year and a half to feel he was on my side.. to trust him at all.

It's going to be harder now. A lot boiled up in this.. it is more like an eruption than a chain reaction. This stuff didn't get triggered.. it got broken through to.. and it came up and out with fury and force. It broke me down to my knees and i had no idea it was coming. A lot of my hesitation comes from this development.. what if this happens over and over.. what will i do in between during times like this? The pain is deafening and the need to even speak to T gets so strong... and if anyone has missed the analogy present throughout this thread.. think hard, listen hard and maybe you can imagine the sound of an infant crying so hard that it is almost unable to gasp for air in between.

other parts of the hesitation come from the newness of the things i have realized... and the bed feelings.. it doesn't help for me to tell myself it is ok... i don't believe inside that it is ok.. for reasons i can't discuss here, but T knows that part at least.

today has ripped my heart out... in bloody bits... i need to believe in certain things i know not to be true.. to functionnow and i can face those illusions when other things stabilize. Oliver Sacks wrote about a man who had lost all his memories that followed his arriving back in port on a navy ship when he was 21, but the man was now in his 40's i think... someone showed the guy a mirror and he lost the colour in his face.. he got so upset they took the mirror away and in a few minutes he was ok again, once again 21 and just in port. That is like me... i need to be allowed my illusions and delusions for now... i need to not see that mirror before i can handle it. i can see small parts, but not the whole thing. i'm not stable enough.

my goals are clear to me... but i also admit that we are not all strong enough to live in the truth.. i do not know if the things i want are worth the things i would have to face. i'm not looking to just do better, to improve my self esteem... whatever, i want the full monty. i want to trace back the root issues (notice i dont say causes) and dig them up. i want to strip off all the necrotic psyche and help it heal... what i want is like a burn victim undergoing treatment. So... imagine that instead of just looking at the immediate, recent burns.. imagine that what i am deciding is to expose myself to a flame. i'm setting old, scarred flesh ablaze.. those scars have malformed and restrict my being.

so what i have to lose becomes more evident i would think.

T does not push this idea.. he knows i want to stop falling on my face, stop having bad relationships, stop tripping myself up.... he knows i went into this with deeper long term work in mind. He knows i am so timid inside despite what is outside.. he knows how long it was for me to trust.. he knows quite a lot. He has been gentle, allowing me to choose the direction, the pace, the depth. He has been solid... not even a hesitation on his part. He hasn't flinched.

thanks for responding.. it really helped lift my spirits

[meeka]

It's going to be harder now. A lot boiled up in this.. it is more like an eruption than a chain reaction. This stuff didn't get triggered.. it got broken through to.. and it came up and out with fury and force. It broke me down to my knees and i had no idea it was coming. A lot of my hesitation comes from this development.. what if this happens over and over.. what will i do in between during times like this? The pain is deafening and the need to even speak to T gets so strong... and if anyone has missed the analogy present throughout this thread.. think hard, listen hard and maybe you can imagine the sound of an infant crying so hard that it is almost unable to gasp for air in between.

other parts of the hesitation come from the newness of the things i have realized... and the bed feelings.. it doesn't help for me to tell myself it is ok... i don't believe inside that it is ok.. for reasons i can't discuss here, but T knows that part at least.

today has ripped my heart out... in bloody bits... i need to believe in certain things i know not to be true.. to functionnow and i can face those illusions when other things stabilize. Oliver Sacks wrote about a man who had lost all his memories that followed his arriving back in port on a navy ship when he was 21, but the man was now in his 40's i think... someone showed the guy a mirror and he lost the colour in his face.. he got so upset they took the mirror away and in a few minutes he was ok again, once again 21 and just in port. That is like me... i need to be allowed my illusions and delusions for now... i need to not see that mirror before i can handle it. i can see small parts, but not the whole thing. i'm not stable enough.

my goals are clear to me... but i also admit that we are not all strong enough to live in the truth.. i do not know if the things i want are worth the things i would have to face. i'm not looking to just do better, to improve my self esteem... whatever, i want the full monty. i want to trace back the root issues (notice i dont say causes) and dig them up. i want to strip off all the necrotic psyche and help it heal... what i want is like a burn victim undergoing treatment. So... imagine that instead of just looking at the immediate, recent burns.. imagine that what i am deciding is to expose myself to a flame. i'm setting old, scarred flesh ablaze.. those scars have malformed and restrict my being.

so what i have to lose becomes more evident i would think.


Appears like you are completely into you therapy and your torture spells that great changes are due... Otherwise you wouldn't be feeling so raw. In a way the therapy is doing exactly what its supposed to.
When you talk about a feeling that you want the T to take care of you, it probably like an old abandonment wound that has been re-activated because of your growing trust in your T. Which is good, because it means that ur capacity to trust is re-opening. Do take your own time in this phase, discuss with him or not, you will be able to work through this given time and pain. In my experience this is a pain that you probably faced and without experiencing it fully suppressed it out of your conscious thoughts. Mourning that loss, even if it is not obvious in the current scenario is the way to change.

'my goals are clear to me... but i also admit that we are not all strong enough to live in the truth.. i do not know if the things i want are worth the things i would have to face. i'm not looking to just do better, to improve my self esteem... whatever, i want the full monty'

This sounds so right to me........ I think you are headed in the right direction, even though painful.

[meeka]

oops...... I make a lot of mistakes while posting, any ways here goes:

Appears like you are completely into you therapy and your torture spells that great changes are due... Otherwise you wouldn't be feeling so raw. In a way the therapy is doing exactly what its supposed to.
When you talk about a feeling that you want the T to take care of you, it probably like an old abandonment wound that has been re-activated because of your growing trust in your T. Which is good, because it means that ur capacity to trust is re-opening. Do take your own time in this phase, discuss with him or not, you will be able to work through this given time and pain. In my experience this is a pain that you probably faced and without experiencing it fully suppressed it out of your conscious thoughts. Mourning that loss, even if it is not obvious in the current scenario is the way to change.

'my goals are clear to me... but i also admit that we are not all strong enough to live in the truth.. i do not know if the things i want are worth the things i would have to face. i'm not looking to just do better, to improve my self esteem... whatever, i want the full monty'

This sounds so right to me........ I think you are headed in the right direction, even though painful.[/quote]

[Sannah]

Candika, you are just not ready for the change part yet. Before you can change you have to process and completely understand everything and you will do this at your own pace. You wrote about how you know you aren't ready for the truth yet. This is great self knowledge. Go at your own pace, you will get there eventually.....

[little*rhino]

ty guys... it helps calm me to post here sometimes.

i'm doing better today, calmer... but so confused and unsure

this has brought up big trust issues and i feel so guilty about them. T has ben nothing but kind, gentle and solid... not waivered - ever. i know this is about ME and my past.. but still.. can't help it. T said he knows i can't help it.. but still..

can't deal and i am too swamped, over-booked, over-stressed and a general mess. i lost another 3lbs this week ( / )

sorry.. im whining now, but this is where i am

i need a vacation somewhere

[Behindthecouch]

Hi Candika,

From my experience and the stuff I have read there is a stage at the beginning where everything seems to get better (like a honeymoon period) then the work gets harder and you go deeper in and yes, you spiral downwards for a while before you start coming back up and it takes a different amount of time for each person.

It sounds like you have a supprotive therapist if you are drawn to them then its a good sign and means there's trust there. You do need to build some transference and work through it with them so that you can eventually use the learning in relationships outside of therapy. The important thing is that you feel you are making progress - even a little at a time - and not getting stuck in the same place for months and months at a time.

As long as you are always moving forward it should start to get better eventually, but it just might take a little time.

Hope this helps.

BTC

[I_WMD]

Originally Posted by Candika

gosh.. thanks for responding guys. i hope i don't miss anyone's points.. here goes:

first.. i had maybe 2 hous of sleep.. i know that sleep helps re-set the anxiety clock but my doggy was sick and i was up throughout the night. i feel like a ... well, best not to say. The anxiety kicks back in a few milliseconds after i open my eyes from a nap even. i have left T numerous messages without asking for a call-back. i need to sit through this. i did change my sessions in two weeks from 1 to 2, so i will be doing 1,2,1 for now.

ok.. sannah.. yes, i am keenly aware of many of the things i do. painfully. i have struggled with them, and it was the subject of a recent voicemail to T. For the past year and 8 months and 26 days i have tried very hard to work on that stuff myself, making friends, making a network so as not to rely on any one person, trying to stay social if at all possible (also to help my issues with social anxiety issues that sometimes prevent me from leaving the house). i mentioned that stuff to T before but not indepth. i was doing everything i could outwardly do. Trouble is though, that without that inner stuff, the rest doesn't stick. i keep people at an emotional distance, i don't trust them, i feel bad even when someone actually gives me what i need emotionally... and then i flee.

yes... that was exactly what i was getting at.. badly said on my part maybe? i was meaning that the longing and sadness stem from my past, and nothing there can be changed... what is open to change is today. i want to believe T can help me make that change... but in the brutal reality that is my heart, i don't believe i can change and often don't even grasp what might need change.. T and i talk a lot about the gap between intellectual understanding and belief. To quote him ".. if beliefs were easy to change.. well, they wouldn't be beliefs, now would they?

we work a lot on identifying those beliefs... and what ones functioned "then" vs now. i have a hard time with this...it sounds easy but isn't. T explained it like someone who lived in South Africa during apartheid (sp?)... without someone telling them, or some outside influence, would they be able to recognize the problem they lived in socially? Well.. even he said this wasn't a perfect example, but think about it... if you grow up in a family that puts you down, you are more likely to accept something being wrong with you as just plain reality, instead of something you should question. So.. sifting through beliefs is something tedious and confusing. i can't point out or talk abuot things i dont see as wrong.

pach.. yeah... on the other hand... how long can anyone suffer without feeling this way? and can we or should we feel one bit bad about it? i suffered so much, needlessly, for the sake of others.... and for lesser reasons i think.

minime.. i saved yours for last, not just because you replied last but because responding to it really updates what today brought out for me. T would never "reject" me.. would not make me go away... and would always try to work with me on whatever i felt. He says feelings just are. i just can't talk to him about these newer discoveries.. not yet.. maybe never, i dont know. It took a year and a half to feel he was on my side.. to trust him at all.

It's going to be harder now. A lot boiled up in this.. it is more like an eruption than a chain reaction. This stuff didn't get triggered.. it got broken through to.. and it came up and out with fury and force. It broke me down to my knees and i had no idea it was coming. A lot of my hesitation comes from this development.. what if this happens over and over.. what will i do in between during times like this? The pain is deafening and the need to even speak to T gets so strong... and if anyone has missed the analogy present throughout this thread.. think hard, listen hard and maybe you can imagine the sound of an infant crying so hard that it is almost unable to gasp for air in between.

other parts of the hesitation come from the newness of the things i have realized... and the bed feelings.. it doesn't help for me to tell myself it is ok... i don't believe inside that it is ok.. for reasons i can't discuss here, but T knows that part at least.

today has ripped my heart out... in bloody bits... i need to believe in certain things i know not to be true.. to functionnow and i can face those illusions when other things stabilize. Oliver Sacks wrote about a man who had lost all his memories that followed his arriving back in port on a navy ship when he was 21, but the man was now in his 40's i think... someone showed the guy a mirror and he lost the colour in his face.. he got so upset they took the mirror away and in a few minutes he was ok again, once again 21 and just in port. That is like me... i need to be allowed my illusions and delusions for now... i need to not see that mirror before i can handle it. i can see small parts, but not the whole thing. i'm not stable enough.

my goals are clear to me... but i also admit that we are not all strong enough to live in the truth.. i do not know if the things i want are worth the things i would have to face. i'm not looking to just do better, to improve my self esteem... whatever, i want the full monty. i want to trace back the root issues (notice i dont say causes) and dig them up. i want to strip off all the necrotic psyche and help it heal... what i want is like a burn victim undergoing treatment. So... imagine that instead of just looking at the immediate, recent burns.. imagine that what i am deciding is to expose myself to a flame. i'm setting old, scarred flesh ablaze.. those scars have malformed and restrict my being.

so what i have to lose becomes more evident i would think.

T does not push this idea.. he knows i want to stop falling on my face, stop having bad relationships, stop tripping myself up.... he knows i went into this with deeper long term work in mind. He knows i am so timid inside despite what is outside.. he knows how long it was for me to trust.. he knows quite a lot. He has been gentle, allowing me to choose the direction, the pace, the depth. He has been solid... not even a hesitation on his part. He hasn't flinched.

thanks for responding.. it really helped lift my spirits

Still love your quote of mine from the hippies ruined the world >>>.. to my saying " no ,, it was pink hair and purple hair too !!! "

But really >> If you can write so well here yet call youself timid >> I would print off this Diatribe / essay as to your answers to these >. most well intended and suppotive folks here and hand it to " T " >>. and then ,, Go from there >> Best of Luck !!!!!!!!

WMD.