[MissCharlotte]

You know, I have been involved with T in a psychoanalytical relationship for two years now. It is as thrilling, and as rocky as any relationship I've ever been in, including that with my parents or my H.

I have been working hard to sort out the most recent rupture which has, like the others, passed. --and by the way, why does it feel like I am the only one [okay Soli, except you] who has these (seemingly] HUGE ruptures--

and....I feel like I am chasing my tail again. When he goes away (the vacation) I retreat within. Then I go into a freefall--a depression crash that--quite frankly--scares the crap out of me. Is it him or me I can't find?

I SO NEED HIM during these times but it feels like my neediness rejects him and makes him pull away. All of a sudden, when I am in a crash he becomes Mr. Super Clinical T With Many Rules. Phone call rules, self care rules, blah blah blah. Who is this guy? We totally miss one another--and I don't mean longing I mean we do NOT connect during these times.

But when times are relaxed, we are like two old friends connecting on an awesomely intimate level. NO PROBLEMS HERE!

THEN I read about others whose T's hold hands, hug, etc. WE DONT TOUCH.
And I am jealous.

Of course, I think he knows it wouldn't be good for my therapy and I think I know it too, but I want it anyway. In fact, if he approached me I would probly have a heart attack. It's my complex ptsd. LOL

In some ways I feel like I need more from him. I need HIM to be more WITH ME during our session tomorrow. I need HIM to not shy away from my depression. Yeah, he can pull me out but he can only do that if he is with me and not telling me from the sidelines to get out of it.

Good heavens, I think he is the best. Last week when I was so depressed he even suggested I go BOWLING--LOLOLOL. Yeah, I guess he really was desparate and he was simply reciting the litany of things I needed to do to connect with people but really--bowling? Little did he know but when I was a teen I was in a bowling league.

I was also coloring this week in session and commented that my picture looked more like a jellyfish than the silkscreen hanging I was trying to copy. Naturally I opened myself up to the following" Maybe you feel more like a jellyfish than a flower today." ??????

Anyhow, I'm thinking that I need more intimacy--he needs to be with me more and in order for me to get what I need--then I need to risk more, don't I?

I needed a hell of a lot more from my mother than I got, connection, love all of that but most of all I needed her to validate the hell she left me in when she was working. I was not safe. But I always just blocked that out--disssociated that need so I wouldn't feel it.

Arrrghhhh

[gimmeice]

((((((((((( MissCharlotte )))))))))))))))

For me personally because of my past stuff I can only see women pdocs & women therapists & they both hug me at the end of the sessions & I'm not a hugger type as I never got the "right kind" of physical love expressed in my childhood. I hate being hugged or touched in general, but it is such a, gosh, I don't even know the words--soothing?? Something I have never experienced before. Validating, accepting & no strings tied to it...

But I don't ever feel like I need "more" from my T. If I do, I just quit going to her. I have been through about 5 T's in the last 2 years. Had an OD 2 years ago so I am actively pursuing aggressive treatment & help (meds adjustments--bipolar 1--& psychological treatment in indiv. & group therapy). Hey, I'm not wasting my time, money & ins. co. allowed visits (30--have exhausted them now--paying out of pocket) if I'm not seeing concrete progress.

I'm 54 & I don't have time to waste lamenting my childhood & all that. I know it was crappy, but I need help in getting out of that & learning how to live a quality life NOW. The DBT is really helping with that.--Suzy

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

Anyhow, I'm thinking that I need more intimacy--he needs to be with me more and in order for me to get what I need--then I need to risk more, don't I?

I think you are on to something here, Miss C. The more risks I take with T, the more intimate our relationship becomes. And the intimacy is what I NEED to heal, I think. He can't just sit there and give me intimacy - it requires something from both of us.

It is scary to go to the dark places. Really, really scary. I dissociate, I panic, I can't breathe...but T goes there with me and he hears me and he experiences it with me and he is there for me to help me get regrounded. T says it is very powerful, and I guess it is....

I don't have any real advice, only my own experience to offer. But I understand the need for more intimacy, and I understand how painful it is when I can't connect with T in that way.

((((((((((((((((((((((((( Miss C )))))))))))))))))))))))) This stuff is so hard. I am thinking of you.

xoxoxox

[Mouse_]

I've been with my T 4yrs now and its only been of late that I've felt that I'm getting "enought"...give it time, relationships take and need time...when growing up in dysfunctional families, no one gives you time, you have to be what the other people want you to be immediately...relax into the relationship with time then you will feel "it"...2 yrs isn't a long time in the great scheme of things where psychoanayitical (sp) therapy is concerned...

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Mouse_

...when growing up in dysfunctional families, no one gives you time, you have to be what the other people want you to be immediately

Exactly my experience.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

Is it him or me I can't find?

I SO NEED HIM during these times but it feels like my neediness rejects him and makes him pull away. All of a sudden, when I am in a crash he becomes Mr. Super Clinical T With Many Rules. Phone call rules, self care rules, blah blah blah. Who is this guy? We totally miss one another--and I don't mean longing I mean we do NOT connect during these times.

In some ways I feel like I need more from him. I need HIM to be more WITH ME during our session tomorrow. I need HIM to not shy away from my depression. Yeah, he can pull me out but he can only do that if he is with me and not telling me from the sidelines to get out of it.

Anyhow, I'm thinking that I need more intimacy--he needs to be with me more and in order for me to get what I need--then I need to risk more, don't I?

I needed a hell of a lot more from my mother than I got, connection, love all of that but most of all I needed her to validate the hell she left me in when she was working. I was not safe. But I always just blocked that out--disssociated that need so I wouldn't feel it.

Hi Charlotte, so you think that he is just not comfortable getting too close when you really need him? Maybe he is afraid that he will be pulled in and this will destabilize him?

Are you dissociating your needs again with your T like you did with your mom?

[MissCharlotte]

Thanks everyone~

Sigh.

I had a nice connected session and I went with my gut, telling T what my thought processes were during my crash and the connections I made. He listened intently, offered a few interpretations but mostly just listened. I really had a solid sense of his being there and more importantly, ME being there.

I didn't really get into the "needy" discussion per se --it wasn't relevant or even necessary. However, I was able to tell him about how much I was searching for him during the rupture and how difficult it was for me to not connect. I really feel like he understood what I was saying. That's when he asked if I felt in touch with myself now.

Next week he won't be around on Thursday and we might do a longer session on Monday. I said to him, "But I might hate you by then." He said, "it could go either way." LOL

He can't just sit there and give me intimacy - it requires something from both of us.

Yes, earthmama--exactly what we did tonight.

.give it time, relationships take and need tim

So true Mouse, so very true. If I look back to two years ago, I know that now I am a different person. Then I didn't really even undersetand the concept of a truly intimate relationship. It took two years to get here--I can't imagine where I'll be in two more.

Hi Charlotte, so you think that he is just not comfortable getting too close when you really need him?

It could be but I'm not certain that's exactly it Sannah. I think it's more like he can't find me either because I am morphing all over the place.

Are you dissociating your needs again

No. By talking through this rupture I am addressing my needs. I think the fact that I dissociated with my Mom is why it's so hard.

[little*rhino]

awww Miss... im sorry you have these ups and downs..

EM has some ruptures.. and i am in a huge one right now. Heart sick inside

T pain sucks donkey butt

yes, risk more. i found when i extended, he didnt reject... but is all so complicated

write about what you do want.. simple words.. no sentences.. have a conversation with yourself in writing

much love

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

Thanks everyone~

Sigh.

I had a nice connected session and I went with my gut, telling T what my thought processes were during my crash and the connections I made. He listened intently, offered a few interpretations but mostly just listened. I really had a solid sense of his being there and more importantly, ME being there.

I didn't really get into the "needy" discussion per se --it wasn't relevant or even necessary. However, I was able to tell him about how much I was searching for him during the rupture and how difficult it was for me to not connect. I really feel like he understood what I was saying. That's when he asked if I felt in touch with myself now.

Next week he won't be around on Thursday and we might do a longer session on Monday. I said to him, "But I might hate you by then." He said, "it could go either way." LOL


Yes, earthmama--exactly what we did tonight.


So true Mouse, so very true. If I look back to two years ago, I know that now I am a different person. Then I didn't really even undersetand the concept of a truly intimate relationship. It took two years to get here--I can't imagine where I'll be in two more.


It could be but I'm not certain that's exactly it Sannah. I think it's more like he can't find me either because I am morphing all over the place.


No. By talking through this rupture I am addressing my needs. I think the fact that I dissociated with my Mom is why it's so hard.

MissC,

and by the way, why does it feel like I am the only one [okay Soli, except you] who has these (seemingly] HUGE ruptures--

We're just lucky, I guess! I think, in my case, that my T is not exactly thrilled with needy people (me specifically). I suspect that he would be able to be mindful and overcome his trepidation if it weren't for the fact that my attachment issues are MASSIVELY intense. Or, it could be that he is more oriented toward CBT whereas I believe more in the subconscious mind (Freud). I totally honor and respect his opinion, no matter how far of base it is (ha ha). We ALL know that he will come around to my way of thinking sooner or later as everyone does. I just hope it's sooner than later.

THEN I read about others whose T's hold hands, hug, etc. WE DONT TOUCH. And I am jealous.

Mine is the same way - no touching allowed. I wonder if this is a manifestation of his disgust for neediness (in my case). Maybe the two are interrelated? Saying that, there is NO WAY I would want my T to touch me! Ever! I can't imagine him holding my hand nor do I want to do so. Oddly enough, it is very uncomfortable for me to even be typing this now.

This reminds me of one thing that happened with my Pdoc. Basically, it was a session before he left to go to another state. I was walking out and he was saying goodbye. I glanced at him and sensed a hug coming so I went to hug him AND . . . I had TOTALLY misread the situation, LOL. Allow me to assure you that the walk from that point until I got to the door was excruciating. All I could think of was, "Act calm. Act cool (too late). Pretend you didn't just make an *** out of yourself, lol, even though you did." He handled it expertly, though. He didn't let me hug him, holding me at bay, BUT he didn't push me away and reject me either. I knew instantly that if we had completed the hug that I would have felt totally horrible - I wouldn't have liked it at all. I used to think I wanted that from my T, but now I KNOW I don't. I think I've written about this before. I have since reframed the event to reduce the humiliation. I never thought I would ever "trip" and fall and have my Pdoc catch me, but it happened. Imagine the calamitous repercussions if he had not caught me - I could have skinned my knee! I'm so glad that national emergency issue has been solved.

In some ways I feel like I need more from him. I need HIM to be more WITH ME during our session tomorrow. I need HIM to not shy away from my depression. Yeah, he can pull me out but he can only do that if he is with me and not telling me from the sidelines to get out of it.

This is a very interesting point! Are you saying that you want your T to accept your depression instead of pushing you to get over it? I believe that our Ts have to accept our neediness in order to help us reduce its effects, so I suspect that it could be the same with depression.

Yeah, I guess he really was desparate and he was simply reciting the litany of things I needed to do to connect with people but really--bowling?

Anyhow, I'm thinking that I need more intimacy--he needs to be with me more and in order for me to get what I need--then I need to risk more, don't I?

This is a really disturbing question. The fact that you asked that question is really amazing! Instead of burying your head in the sand (--I'm at that center now), as always, you are instead taking the bull by the horns. If I'm hearing your font correctly, it sounds like you are realizing that in order to move forward you have to risk feeling the pain. You've made so much progress. Your perseverance continues to serve you well.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

Sigh. I had a nice connected session

Ahhhhh. I'm so glad you connected again.

I really feel like he understood what I was saying.

It is so validating to feel understood, especially when we are so complex that sometimes we can't even understand ourselves.

If I look back to two years ago, I know that now I am a different person. Then I didn't really even undersetand the concept of a truly intimate relationship.

I am the same. Yes, therapy brings up hard stuff and it isn't always perfect and the T doesn't always say our top choice response. But what we gain by learning to have an intimate relationship is, well, priceless.

[MissCharlotte]

((Soliaree))

I completely get your statement about the intensity. That is what gets in my way.

Sigh. I think that you might be onto something with respect to the relationship between no touching and as you say--neediness. I have to believe that being needy is a good thing, a normal state of being. We are born needing our mothers. Therefore, how could T look at neediness with disgust? Are you SURE that he is disgusted?

Maybe he just doesn't know what to do in those moments. That's what I think of my T now. Inept yes--disgusted--no.

[chaotic13]

I'm glad you were able to reconnect and repair things. My T and I have had many sessions were we've not connected-synchronously anyway. Usually when these happen I think the session was crappy or a total bust, then later realize the disconnect and my response to it yielded something important. The one major rupture we've encountered we were able to work things out and I feel like therapy is going A LOT better for me now. Ruptures and disconnects really suck, but in my case I usually learn something important from them. I think what I like most about my T is that she has been very direct and consistent with me. I find this consistency is something that I can count on when my mind goes crazy. I really don't have a sense of what intimacy really feels like. May this is part of what intimacy is for me.

[MissCharlotte]

Ruptures and disconnects really suck, but in my case I usually learn something important from them.

Oh yes. I learn many "somethings." I told T once that if it didn't hurt so much I would like these ruptures because they are a treasure trove of growth.

I have a sense that--for whatever reason--I am particularly sensitive to these ruptures; and that I see/hear/feel comments as criticism, perceiving a rupture when others may not. In other words, it's not easy for me to shrug off things and move on.

oy

[chaotic13]

I don't I shrug these off as well as I tell myself I do. Hope have at least a few connected session before your hit with another hard lesson.

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

Anyhow, I'm thinking that I need more intimacy--he needs to be with me more and in order for me to get what I need--then I need to risk more, don't I?

I think you just figured it out for yourself.... there is so much risk involved in therapy. By asking for what we need, we are constantly taking the risk of our worst fear-- rejection.

Hey, I have an idea. I'm going to start a new thread now, based on risks.

Have fun bowling.

[Behindthecouch]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Exactly my experience.

ditto here